Regulations were placed on the banks and Wall Street after the last Great Depression in the 1930's.
Presidents since Reagan have been de-regulating EVERYTHING, dismantling every restraint that had been placed on greed and avarice in the name of
free-market capitalism.
It's good to demand the TARP recipients pay back what they owe, but it's more important still to reinstate desperately-needed regulations and
controls. These regulations protected the average American very well for many years.
It's time to remember the lessons learned in the 1930's.
Obama to banks: `We want our money back', page 4
privacy
reply posted on 18-1-2010 @ 10:53 AM by poet1b
reply to post by MidnightDStroyer
First of all, a Republic is a form or democracy.
Second, while that is a great quote of TJ, you are misinterpreting. TJ isn't condemning democracy, only warning of its dangers. No system is perfect, but Democratic principles are the best developed so far, and I think the U.S. still has the best form of government.
Regulating banks, interstate and international trade, is one of the roles of the federal government, and taxing those entities who participate in interstate and international commerce is a part of that regulation, and those entities should in fact be taxed to pay for the associated taxes with interstate and international trade in order to secure the defense of our nation and the welfare of the people.
First of all, a Republic is a form or democracy.
Second, while that is a great quote of TJ, you are misinterpreting. TJ isn't condemning democracy, only warning of its dangers. No system is perfect, but Democratic principles are the best developed so far, and I think the U.S. still has the best form of government.
Regulating banks, interstate and international trade, is one of the roles of the federal government, and taxing those entities who participate in interstate and international commerce is a part of that regulation, and those entities should in fact be taxed to pay for the associated taxes with interstate and international trade in order to secure the defense of our nation and the welfare of the people.
reply posted on 18-1-2010 @ 11:00 AM by poet1b
reply to post by jdub297
Let me get this straight, you are upset that the Obama admin put in requirements that resulted in the investiment corps paying back U.S. taxpayers early?
I can see where your loyalties fall.
The GW admin set things up so that almost a Trillion dollars of money, that taxpayers were to be responsible for paying, was handed out to Wallstreet crooks without any strings attached, or even any requirements to report where the money goes, and you seem to be happy with this?
Those firms paying the money back were glad to get it as long as no strings were attached. That they can now pay it back in order to escape rules on bonuses shows that it was nothing but one huge scam pulled off by the GW admin before leaving office.
Lock em up and throw away the key is what we should do.
Let me get this straight, you are upset that the Obama admin put in requirements that resulted in the investiment corps paying back U.S. taxpayers early?
I can see where your loyalties fall.
The GW admin set things up so that almost a Trillion dollars of money, that taxpayers were to be responsible for paying, was handed out to Wallstreet crooks without any strings attached, or even any requirements to report where the money goes, and you seem to be happy with this?
Those firms paying the money back were glad to get it as long as no strings were attached. That they can now pay it back in order to escape rules on bonuses shows that it was nothing but one huge scam pulled off by the GW admin before leaving office.
Lock em up and throw away the key is what we should do.
reply posted on 18-1-2010 @ 11:11 AM by poet1b
reply to post by jdub297
Americans are opposed to the current plan because they feel that it does not go far enough. The U.S. public wants a public option, and through convoluted Senate rules, a minority of the U.S. population is able to exert a tyranny on the majority, and that is plain wrong.
Your claims about the green movement are pure extremist hysteria.
Yes, the GW tax cut did result in an almost doubling of our national debt. This is the reality.
The increase in national debt was due to spending exceeding revenue. The tax cuts for the rich only resulted in a massive wealth grab by the rich which lead to massive fraud and a collapse of our nations economy. When the economy is being run on accounting trickier as it has been due to deregulation, it is only a matter of time until the con game ends and the illusion falls apart.
When people like you start to realize that massive increases in debt, both private and public debt, does not result in a sustainable economy, we will be far better off.
Of course you will continue to cling to your free market communistic nonsense.
Americans are opposed to the current plan because they feel that it does not go far enough. The U.S. public wants a public option, and through convoluted Senate rules, a minority of the U.S. population is able to exert a tyranny on the majority, and that is plain wrong.
Your claims about the green movement are pure extremist hysteria.
Yes, the GW tax cut did result in an almost doubling of our national debt. This is the reality.
The increase in national debt was due to spending exceeding revenue. The tax cuts for the rich only resulted in a massive wealth grab by the rich which lead to massive fraud and a collapse of our nations economy. When the economy is being run on accounting trickier as it has been due to deregulation, it is only a matter of time until the con game ends and the illusion falls apart.
When people like you start to realize that massive increases in debt, both private and public debt, does not result in a sustainable economy, we will be far better off.
Of course you will continue to cling to your free market communistic nonsense.
reply posted on 18-1-2010 @ 11:35 AM by jdub297
reply to post by poet1b
I agree that we should not operate in a deficit or increase debt.
Bush was wrong to create an unfunded mandate for prescription coverage. The democrat-led Congress endorsed every nickel of spending, though; including the military expenditures.
Obama has seen otherwise.
The "financial crisis" is entirely the result of forced or coerced lending demanded by the Democrats in the Congress, Obama included. Dodd, Frank and Obama all pushed for unfettered lending by FannieMae and Freddie Mac. They alone are responsible for the housing bust and the failure of the banks that traded those mortgages.
You really have no idea of what went on before you got access to the internet, do you?
"Free market communistic?"
There is no such thing.
When you grow up, you should try to think for yourself.
jw
When people like you start to realize that massive increases in debt, both private and public debt, does not result in a sustainable economy, we will be far better off.
Of course you will continue to cling to your free market communistic nonsense.
I agree that we should not operate in a deficit or increase debt.
Bush was wrong to create an unfunded mandate for prescription coverage. The democrat-led Congress endorsed every nickel of spending, though; including the military expenditures.
Obama has seen otherwise.
The "financial crisis" is entirely the result of forced or coerced lending demanded by the Democrats in the Congress, Obama included. Dodd, Frank and Obama all pushed for unfettered lending by FannieMae and Freddie Mac. They alone are responsible for the housing bust and the failure of the banks that traded those mortgages.
You really have no idea of what went on before you got access to the internet, do you?
"Free market communistic?"
There is no such thing.
When you grow up, you should try to think for yourself.
jw
reply posted on 18-1-2010 @ 12:43 PM by poet1b
reply to post by jdub297
Yeah, right, rule changes in banking that allowed creation of all kinds of new securities to hide quality of the loans had nothing to do with it, and the Republicans were not involved in the run up?
This wasn't fueled additionally by inventive new security practices, and derivatives?
You live in a fantasy world, which is why you think the free market concept is different than communism.
You got fooled again.
As long as GW and the repubs who controlled congress could increase spending through borrowing, while at the same time cutting taxes, they did. If the tax cuts would have required equal spending cuts, they never would have happened.
During the entire time of the GW admin our economy ran on debt. Do you really claim this is acceptable, and sustainable.
Same thing happened under Reagan and GH.
Yeah, right, rule changes in banking that allowed creation of all kinds of new securities to hide quality of the loans had nothing to do with it, and the Republicans were not involved in the run up?
This wasn't fueled additionally by inventive new security practices, and derivatives?
You live in a fantasy world, which is why you think the free market concept is different than communism.
You got fooled again.
As long as GW and the repubs who controlled congress could increase spending through borrowing, while at the same time cutting taxes, they did. If the tax cuts would have required equal spending cuts, they never would have happened.
During the entire time of the GW admin our economy ran on debt. Do you really claim this is acceptable, and sustainable.
Same thing happened under Reagan and GH.
reply posted on 18-1-2010 @ 12:54 PM by endisnighe
reply to post by poet1b
So you are here to champion the DEMS and rewrite history at the same time.
Where do you get your facts little one?
Dems and Repubs are both to blame for allowing FRAUD.
You know what that is don't you? Selling something for value, that has no value.
Where is your comment for arresting these bankers? Oh, because your precious Dems are just as CULPABLE as the bankers.
Do not come here and try to spread your propaganda like it is fact.
No government administration in the past 35 years has run a positive debt margin.
Do you even know how they accrue their numbers for debt? It includes ALL government income including SS Medicare/Medicaid etc etc etc.
Are you actually here to tell us the Congress, which was in control 06-Today is in no way responsible for anything?
The Congress is responsible for writing law, the President has veto power.
When did it become common stupidity (knowledge) that the President sets the budget? The president may write up a plan, the Congress has no reason to follow it.
You need to go back to propaganda 101 and get some more instruction on how to spread some more bull.
So you are here to champion the DEMS and rewrite history at the same time.
Where do you get your facts little one?
Dems and Repubs are both to blame for allowing FRAUD.
You know what that is don't you? Selling something for value, that has no value.
Where is your comment for arresting these bankers? Oh, because your precious Dems are just as CULPABLE as the bankers.
Do not come here and try to spread your propaganda like it is fact.
No government administration in the past 35 years has run a positive debt margin.
Do you even know how they accrue their numbers for debt? It includes ALL government income including SS Medicare/Medicaid etc etc etc.
Are you actually here to tell us the Congress, which was in control 06-Today is in no way responsible for anything?
The Congress is responsible for writing law, the President has veto power.
When did it become common stupidity (knowledge) that the President sets the budget? The president may write up a plan, the Congress has no reason to follow it.
You need to go back to propaganda 101 and get some more instruction on how to spread some more bull.
reply posted on 18-1-2010 @ 01:28 PM by jdub297
Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by jdub297
Yeah, right, rule changes in banking that allowed creation of all kinds of new securities to hide quality of the loans had nothing to do with it, and the Republicans were not involved in the run up?
You really just don't know, do you? "Rule changes in banking" did NOT create the markets for investment opportunities and speculation. You have no idea who Boesky was or what risk arbitrage did to the market in the '80s and '90s do you?
Entrepreneurs will find any variety of investment "vehicles" given ANY market situation. That includes, by definition, the existing regulations or lack thereof.
And, YES, the Republicans were not involved in the run-up! Entrepreneurs of every, or no, political affiliation have taken advantage of opportunities for enrichment.
This wasn't fueled additionally by inventive new security practices, and derivatives?
I guess you do not know that mortgages have been sold in tranches to re-fund lenders for as long as there have been mortgages. The idea to sell pieces of the package (derivatives) is a recent innovation, but not tied to any political ideology.
Where do you get your propaganda?
You live in a fantasy world, which is why you think the free market concept is different than communism.
I understand "the free market concept" to be almost the exact opposite of communism.
Care to explain your position?
You got fooled again.
I don't think so. And, you cannot prove it.
As long as GW and the repubs who controlled congress could increase spending through borrowing, while at the same time cutting taxes, they did. If the tax cuts would have required equal spending cuts, they never would have happened.
I will concede that all funding for prescription drugs, education, Iraq and Afghanistan should stop immediately.
Happy?
Shouldn't this logic apply to increased spending with no commensurate cuts elsewhere or additional revenue? Justify the extension of TARP, Stimulus, and the auto, mortgage and insurance buyouts, please.
deny ignorance
jw
reply posted on 18-1-2010 @ 03:29 PM by poet1b
reply to post by endisnighe
If you believe in the free market, then you don't believe in constitutional governance, social policies, and especially not a monetary system based on real value, not if your belief in free markets echoes anything believed by Reagan, and any of the others who have patterned themselves after him.
No regulations haven't been increasing every year for the last hundred years, you are clinging to myths.
Yeah, I have heard of Australian economics, pure free market, new age communistic nonsense.
The free market de-regulations plays completely into the hands of giant corporations who gain tremendous power when free market policies are attempted to be put into place. Small businesses need an evenly enforced set of rules, when GW and his neocons came into power the first thing they did was go about destroying the markets for small businesses.
I don't think i have ever watched MSN, you are barking up the wrong tree mate. Name a free market president, and you are looking at an admin that did nothing but tip the odds in favor or giant corporations, and borrowed huge amounts of money to fund the military industrial complex. Like I said, communism. You just haven't faced the music yet.
If you believe in the free market, then you don't believe in constitutional governance, social policies, and especially not a monetary system based on real value, not if your belief in free markets echoes anything believed by Reagan, and any of the others who have patterned themselves after him.
No regulations haven't been increasing every year for the last hundred years, you are clinging to myths.
Yeah, I have heard of Australian economics, pure free market, new age communistic nonsense.
The free market de-regulations plays completely into the hands of giant corporations who gain tremendous power when free market policies are attempted to be put into place. Small businesses need an evenly enforced set of rules, when GW and his neocons came into power the first thing they did was go about destroying the markets for small businesses.
I don't think i have ever watched MSN, you are barking up the wrong tree mate. Name a free market president, and you are looking at an admin that did nothing but tip the odds in favor or giant corporations, and borrowed huge amounts of money to fund the military industrial complex. Like I said, communism. You just haven't faced the music yet.
reply posted on 18-1-2010 @ 03:33 PM by jdub297
reply to post by poet1b
Are you deluded?
There is no "de-regulated" market anywhere.
Can you consider that it is the "regulation" that creates the problem, rather than the "market.?"
OK. You are unable to answer the questions I asked. Understandable.
Here's a new one: How do you equate "free market economy" with "communists that you are?" Most who profess their faith in the former have no faith in the latter.
I would really like to hear your alternative.
You really have no idea, do you?
jw
No matter how many times de-regulation fails, and that there is no country on the planet operating under a free market economy, you people still cling to the foolish belief, just like the communists you are.
Are you deluded?
There is no "de-regulated" market anywhere.
Can you consider that it is the "regulation" that creates the problem, rather than the "market.?"
OK. You are unable to answer the questions I asked. Understandable.
Here's a new one: How do you equate "free market economy" with "communists that you are?" Most who profess their faith in the former have no faith in the latter.
I would really like to hear your alternative.
You really have no idea, do you?
jw
reply posted on 19-1-2010 @ 09:32 AM by poet1b
reply to post by jdub297
I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not, but when you state this,
Are honestly admitting this reality?
Do you recognize that there is no such thing as a free market, which would be a de-regulated market?
This is a very important point, and I think we need some clarity to see who is, or is not, a troll.
I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not, but when you state this,
There is no "de-regulated" market anywhere.
Are honestly admitting this reality?
Do you recognize that there is no such thing as a free market, which would be a de-regulated market?
This is a very important point, and I think we need some clarity to see who is, or is not, a troll.
reply posted on 19-1-2010 @ 10:46 PM by jdub297
reply to post by endisnighe
"Security!!"popeye needs to be locked up.
This sounds like the first page of a textbook that popeye will never finish, much less understand.
Sounds like teen spirit.
So, I guess we need MORE, no?
Popeye thinks we need more spinach, not less, Bluto.
It's hard enough to deal with the real junk. It is impossible to deal with people who just make stuff up..
See you soon. (I'm still shaking my head that we're on the same side of an issue.)
Deny ignorance!
jw
"Security!!"popeye needs to be locked up.
Hey jdub, hear that, you and I are commies.
Constitutional governance, liberal social policies, and a monetary system based on a real value are my stances.
This sounds like the first page of a textbook that popeye will never finish, much less understand.
Does that sound like communism to you?
Sounds like teen spirit.
Regulation has been increasing every year for the past 100 years and you state that de-regulation is the cause of the economic problems?
So, I guess we need MORE, no?
Control of the markets by the government is what has caused this mess, not the other way around.
Popeye thinks we need more spinach, not less, Bluto.
Like I said, some people listen to the MSM and believe everything they hear. Rewriting history and claiming one thing when the opposite is true just does not make any sense.
It's hard enough to deal with the real junk. It is impossible to deal with people who just make stuff up..
See you soon. (I'm still shaking my head that we're on the same side of an issue.)
Deny ignorance!
jw
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