What's with the uptick in religious fundamentalism on ATS

Originally posted by Dr Love

Originally posted by kenochs
To me that's a bit like saying 'gravity is a conspiracy to keep us all down'. It takes away from what I have always thought is a wonderful venue to examine the fringes of 'scientific' thinking.
I find it sad. Any thoughts?

Actually, "gravity" was created by God to keep us all from floating out into space.

Peace

Alternatively, god was created by us to give us something to ponder while we work out how to break the laws of gravity.

However, the weak force is as hard to break as a strong belief, it appears..

reply to post by kenochs


Since Israel became a nation again,back in 1948.The end time prophecies
are being fulfilled right before our eyes.Christians are trying to warn you
about the end times.Why,you would ask?We don't want anyone going into
eternal damnation.
Believe it or not,we care for your final destination and try to warn you of
impending destruction.We spread the news of the gospels and let others
make their decision.
When the church is raptured out,you can all fight over our earthly possessions,we won't be needing them anymore.

Originally posted by troubleshooter

Originally posted by mike_trivisonno
reply to post by kenochs

 

I think Julian Jaynes' "The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind" will shed light on why religion and feelings of faith arise in virtually every single instance of human development and how the vestiges of our past are carried forward into the present through the expression of religious and political structures used for social control.

Brilliant man.

How did you get 'social control' from Julian Jaynes book 'Bicameral Mind?

It's been a while since I read Jaynes. But one of the main themes was that our political and religious institutions provide social control through the use of external authority. These structures for social control appeal to individual's tendency to seek external authority. They are vestiges of our bicameral past.

Originally posted by kenochs
You don't have to be a genius or a journalist to figure this out, when times are rough people turn to god. It has also been proven scientifically that it is within our architecture to look for god. Even if you are an Atheist you do give a damn about god, that is why you are an Atheist.

Interesting Read: where Science and God meet

Religion is in its dying phase, and so of course when anything is dying, it makes alot of noise and whatnot.

I have known plenty of former christians whom have abandoned structured religion and found a more centered personal spiritualism and connection. As science progresses and more and more age old church philosophies show up quaint and primitive, the more people will walk away (thank God) and adapt to a new thinking pattern.

As this happens, those whom have spent lots of time and/or money on a specific religion and has lots invested in the status quo will become louder and louder...this is common. Remember, when paganism was rampant in rome and this little religion called christianity started making its mark, Rome got threatened and did all sorts of strange things..tossing the crazys into lion pits, executions, etc...they sort of knew the time of the many gods were ending (changing anyhow) and so went out loud and proud.

So, structured religion is ending...I give it another 1-200 years max before its some strange ancient myth that people wondered how anyone believed that was real (explained away that their knowledge of science simply wasnt developed).

hopefully our current religious businesses will go out softer than ancient roman paganism did..else expect alot of bombs and such as they become more backed into a corner.

reply to post by kenochs


So as science and all known archeology confirms the bibles writings every day your going to argue about it still and say us true believers are wrong even though everything backs up our history and nothing else?

What has happened can be found in the bible.

What will happen can also.

Stop writing and read if you do not believe. The answers are there.

If you can not disprove something you then make your own thread crying about it? Seems pretty petty.

reply to post by Sky watcher


I've read the book, 3 times.
I've never found anything in there that comes even close to prophecy.
So, sorry, I've done my homework, but just don't see it.
I do though understand the previous argument suggesting that fundies take over thread because of their concern for my soul.
I just don't think this is the venue.

reply to post by oozyism

You're right of course... it was a thread born of frustration.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Religion is in its dying phase, and so of course when anything is dying, it makes alot of noise and whatnot.

I have known plenty of former christians whom have abandoned structured religion and found a more centered personal spiritualism and connection. As science progresses and more and more age old church philosophies show up quaint and primitive, the more people will walk away (thank God) and adapt to a new thinking pattern.

As this happens, those whom have spent lots of time and/or money on a specific religion and has lots invested in the status quo will become louder and louder...this is common. Remember, when paganism was rampant in rome and this little religion called christianity started making its mark, Rome got threatened and did all sorts of strange things..tossing the crazys into lion pits, executions, etc...they sort of knew the time of the many gods were ending (changing anyhow) and so went out loud and proud.

So, structured religion is ending...I give it another 1-200 years max before its some strange ancient myth that people wondered how anyone believed that was real (explained away that their knowledge of science simply wasnt developed).

hopefully our current religious businesses will go out softer than ancient roman paganism did..else expect alot of bombs and such as they become more backed into a corner.

And you will walk right into Satan's hands shortly my friend if you keep thinking like that. Rome was made better and allot less people died when Christianity took root, That is a fact bud.

You have less than two years to decide, When the UFOs show up don't believe what they are telling you, or you will die a horrible death.

The fallen Watchers from the bible are here and God help us all. Our government has been fooled into thinking the Watchers are little aliens from another planet seeking to share earth with us. Our government has been conditioning us for discloser. The Watchers can and have taken any form they want to fit their agenda. Their agenda is total dominion over us, Gods people.

Imagine an 8-9 ft Reptilian looking God with wings ripping you limb from limb just to see you suffer. Thats what awaits us.

Originally posted by kenochs
reply to post by Sky watcher

 

I've read the book, 3 times.
I've never found anything in there that comes even close to prophecy.
So, sorry, I've done my homework, but just don't see it.
I do though understand the previous argument suggesting that fundies take over thread because of their concern for my soul.
I just don't think this is the venue.

Yeah I will admit you have to know ancient languages to know what the words actually meant back then so its impossible to just read it and understand most of it. You have to find people who do really know what it all means, Only listen to people who are educated in the language it was originally written.

Oh this is the perfect venue, Read the book (The Facade) and you will understand whats going on. Everyone on ATS should read it, Most would love it. www.facadethebook.com...

This will help greatly in understanding how to read the bible.
www.thedivinecouncil.com...
www.michaelsheiser.com... Only if we could get him to translate the whole thing for us in a modern sort of Bible.

[edit on 15-1-2010 by Sky watcher]

Originally posted by kenochs
reply to post by oozyism

 

You're right of course... it was a thread born of frustration.

My eyes were opened and now I cant stop reading about it because it (Bible) the coolest story ever when you break it all down. You will see.

reply to post by kenochs

What's with the uptick in religious fundamentalism on ATS

Well, first of all, the word 'fundamentalism' when applied to religion is something of a misnomer. It implies that one has sought the purer, more original tenets of a faith when in fact, most people today use it as a negative to suggest something dirty.

People will believe what they choose to believe. That truth seems to cause lots of distress because some of us have this notion that what WE believe is what YOU should believe.

It just doesn't work that way and if you are anything of a journalist, you know this... or should know it.

The war that rages today is the same that raged 500 years or even a 1000 years ago. To wit: The battle for the hearts and minds of humanity, all while neglecting the most fundamental of all truths; we are all each as individual as our fingerprints.

Another bit of wordplay is the term 'uptick'. It suggests that something is on the rise when in all likelihood, it is merely being noted now... whereas before, it was largely ignored.

And what if I do believe in creation or god? Or what if i don't? Should my personal views cause you distress? I may be a follower of the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster... so what?

What troubles me is not what people think but what they do... as in seeing an upsurge in intolerance bent over petty differences.

Cheers

reply to post by Sky watcher

and yes it probably was petty. Still, it's my opinion and the pettiness was born of my unhappy attempts to find genial thoughtful discussion, as opposed to a new attempt to save my soul on every thread.
And regarding 'The Facade' all I can say is, really? Dan Brown meets Left Behind? Umm, thanks but no thanks.
And it just strikes me that here I am, the OP of a thread rueing the uptick in fundamentalism, and it has devolved into a discussion of you trying to save my soul... MY GOD, I HAVE BECOME WHAT I BEHOLD. I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS US... is that Irony? Or just a bummer...

reply to post by redoubt


You write good.
Honestly though, I think you're probably 90 percent right... a quibbling point.
I have no problem with allowing anyone to believe what they believe.
It's not my place to comment on your personal beliefs.
My problem starts when I see 'hijacking' of threads into the realm of eschatology when the thread has absolutely nothing to do with eschatology (except in the posts of some, for whom the sun rising is more proof of the end times).
And since such views are naturally flame ready, the topic jumps the rails...
It gets old, perhaps this is just a cry for stronger moderation, mild urgings to move back on topic...
Who knows, I don't have answers. But clearly a number of people see the same problem.

The opening post seems a little close minded. What value is a discussion if all points of view arent investigated?

Yes, there are terrible Christians. There are terrible people everywhere. I think the sides get more extreme in relation to each other. The more extremely religious some people get, the more extremely militant other non believers get, and vice versa. People need to stop trying to evangelize others to God with fear. You should want to know him out of love. But who can expect to Christianity to give any peace when all these people are crying and shouting doom from the rooftops.

But to let you know, having Christian Fundamentalists take over topics on an internet forum is a lot more pleasant than having some other religious laws take over your personal life.

I am a Christian, so maybe what happened to me will help you understand what is going on in the world lately. I was raised Catholic, but not very interested at the time. Grew up, now I have a steady job, finances, wife, kids, health, home, decent vehicles, still young(25). Nothing extravagant, just getting along nicely, even in a global depression. Never watched much TV. I wasn't agnostic, athiest, catholic...I was a chameleon(I could blend in with any of the above easily). Then one day it was like God poked me, next thing you know I was looking for the answers. After I got into the Bible I felt really complete. It was very random. Noone brought me in and nothing bad happened to me.

I see it as my own and won't force anyone to believe. People use prophecy to recruit, but read in its context it is clearly prophecy that happened already regarding the fall of Jeruselem and the growing Roman power. Revelations saved many christians lives who understood it around 70 AD.

To me fundmental means basic. Having a very basic understanding means you need to take what the bible says very literally. But we have knowledge of history also, so now we can read it within context and take it lessons and meanings with us without stoning anyone.

Maybe this will help you understand, maybe not.

reply to post by kenochs

Who knows, I don't have answers. But clearly a number of people see the same problem.

Fingerprints, perceptions, interpretations, etc.

Stone soup is still stone soup whether you use pebbles or rocks but there will be those who prefer one over the other nonetheless.




EDIT: typos



[edit on 15-1-2010 by redoubt]

Interesting that you would open a thread pointing out an increase in religious content on this forum. Then, as the thread continues it becomes clear that your beliefs are on the athiest side.

Which brings me to my point. I have actually noticed an increase in atheist related commentary on this site. There are many threads on here including this one, that attack religion and or religious beliefs.

Many predict the end is nigh for religion. When there is an attack, there is usually a defence. For every action an equal and opposite reaction?

People of faith and spirituality are being labled as nutjobs, cuckoos and weak minded. Flying spaghettis monsters! Mention ID and you are instantly a nutjob secretly pushing the christian faith.

Religion is fallible as is Science.

Studies have shown that Right-wingers are:

More paranoid
Have more nightmares
and are more likely to believe conspiracy theories.
mostly white

And of course, more "religious".

So, put a black guy in the white house and the conspiracy message boards are gonna fill up with paranoid, religious scared-y cats.

Simple arithmetic.

reply to post by PowerSlave

I would be very careful, if I were you about ascribing atheist beliefs to me.
My religious beliefs are my own, and that is as it should be.

Matthew 5-6
"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

And I draw a huge distinction between above and what scientific consensus, and the scientific method suggest to me about the way the world works.



[edit on 15-1-2010 by kenochs]

reply to post by redoubt

Of course.