Top Obama Czar: Infiltrate all 'conspiracy theorists'

You beat me to it! GJ

In a 2008 Harvard law paper, "Conspiracy Theories," Sunstein and co-author Adrian Vermeule, a Harvard law professor, ask, "What can government do about conspiracy theories?"

"We can readily imagine a series of possible responses. (1) Government might ban conspiracy theorizing. (2) Government might impose some kind of tax, financial or otherwise, on those who disseminate such theories."

OMG Are these freaks for real?

Thoughts/observations and sharing them are crimes? Crimes to be punished?

If they attempt to act on their proposals then it's time to examine their mental state.

Humanity involves theory... When you get home and there's a broken lamp laying on the floor. You ask your kids what happened.
Knowing what you know about your kids you theorize what happened no matter what they answer. Same in just about everything that we all do everyday.

Cass is a retard. Oregon has doctor assisted suicide. He should check it out.


[edit on 1·14·10 by DrMattMaddix]

At the risk of losing all credibility as a disinfo agent; I work for the federal government, I'm here to counter some of your theories.

On-topic: This paper is not law, nor is it legislation, nor is it an official order of any kind. But hey, good thing they caught this now...nearly a year after he was nominated and three years after it was written.

I thought this was already happening. I seem to remember the army discussing plans for infiltrating blogs. I can't seem to find the link about it at the moment but I have read about it during the Bush years.

Also I have heard personal stories from people I know, but I don't have any proof of that. Just my word which I know is not empirical proof.

Pro-government propagandists are online. Not just for the US government but for every government with a solid internet infrastructure. No body likes their nation shown in a bad light. The best way to minimize that is to have civil service bloggers to do damage control.

The US,China,Russia,Iran,Israel, etc , etc, all of them have agents online to spins stories about their nations in the best possible light. That's just one of the realities of the information age.


[edit on 14-1-2010 by Flakey]

With experience with Bolsheviks reign I can clearly say: "thought crime" had finally came back to US. And I'm proud of my "crippled epistemology". What if "conspiracy" theory offer better predictions than "official" theory? No real scientist will keep theory which offer false predictions... So will be scientific method banned in US?

reply to post by zeddissad


That is my experience also. I would have never imagined prior to Bush Jr. that I would compare any US policy to the Soviets, Russia, or the Germany during Hitler rule. Things very f***ed in the US now. Sad

reply to post by shakespear1


What is really sad is that people do not realize this. In Czech Rep. media mainstream are US still presented as realm of freedom and justice. I'm afraid that we must repeat history once again now ... Totality coming from "cradle of democracy", such irony.

Whoops, that sounds like the stomp stomp of the thought police to me.. lol

But seriously, There is no practical way to stamp out ideas.. not even when you put a gun to peoples heads can you change an idea..

Tho I guess most govs would like to ban thinking all together..

reply to post by DrMattMaddix


That's taken out of context guys. I read the paper, he says that's probably a bad idea, you validate the theory if you attack it. READ THE DAMN ESSAY.

reply to post by Mr Headshot


I have read it, have you?

We suggest several policy responses
that can dampen the supply of conspiracy theorizing, in part by introducing diverse
viewpoints and new factual assumptions into the hard-core groups that produce such
theories. Our principal claim here involves the potential value of cognitive infiltration of
extremist groups, designed to introduce informational diversity into such groups and to
expose indefensible conspiracy theories as such.

Notice the use of the word extremist to call the validity of theories into question. He is advocating creating false arguments to cast doubt on a topic or to divert attention away from the subject.

...there can be no doubt that
some people who accept conspiracy theories are mentally ill and subject to delusions.

So somehow we are now all mentally ill or delusional.

II. Governmental Responses
What can government do about conspiracy theories? Among the things it can do,
what should it do? We can readily imagine a series of possible responses. (1)
Government might ban conspiracy theorizing. (2) Government might impose some kind
of tax, financial or otherwise, on those who disseminate such theories. (3) Government
might itself engage in counterspeech, marshaling arguments to discredit conspiracy
theories. (4) Government might formally hire credible private parties to engage in
counterspeech. (5) Government might engage in informal communication with such
parties, encouraging them to help. Each instrument has a distinctive set of potential
effects, or costs and benefits, and each will have a place under imaginable conditions.
However, our main policy idea is that government should engage in cognitive infiltration
of the groups that produce conspiracy theories, which involves a mix of (3), (4) and (5).

This is the sort of thinking of a Czar. A person who is not voted for by the People. A person who is not vetted by Congress. A person who has executive power granted (unconstitutionally) by the President of the United States. This man wants to tax and criminalize thought!

It is not conspiracies that are dangerous. What is dangerous is those in government who wish to quash the first amendment. Cass R. Sunstein wishes to reform the first amendment of the United States, even writing a book on the subject.

He wishes us to celebrate "tax freedom day" which I strongly detest. If you aren't aware, it's the day that you are no longer working to cover your federal taxes for the year. The government has no property and the only way for it to finance itself is to take by force from one and give to another. This man's ideals are contrary to the very meaning of liberty. He should be scorned, not applauded.

I think we see it all the time I would be at least 10% are working for someone or something. When you see posts lie Keith Olbermann really speaks the truth and mirrors what America feels it is a tip off something is wrong. I really dont think we are looking at a right vs. left I think the agenda all comes from the same place and the division tactics are just for us. They both sell the same product they just wrap it different. And I truly believe we see the sales men here everyday pushing the flavor of the day.

Yes, the paper is harmless.

The idea that someone who views critical thought and evaluation by interested parties as harmful or dangerous being able to advise the president is very scary!!

Everything is a Conspiracy theory until it becomes fact. Sure some of them are far-fetched, and sure some paranoid folks are more into the Conspiracy than others, but having differing opinions, and critical evaluation of stories and theories is vital to making new discoveries! It is vital to keeping the press and the government honest! It is vital to making good decisions in the future!

As for infiltrating the Conspiracy sites and groups, I am all for it! They need to be reading this stuff! They need to be watching out for rogue groups operating inside the US, and they need to be made aware of certain aspects they may have missed! ATS already got Jesse Ventura's attention, maybe we can reach Obama. Maybe infiltrating a site like this will get good information to the right people to effect some real "change"!!

reply to post by av8r007


He never says create false arguments, that's you inferring your interpertation; in effect putting words in his mouth. He says diverse viewpoints. He says that people just have the wrong information. I don't completely agree with him, and he does (of course) paint us in a bad light but it's far from the draconian dictator you guys are making him out to be.

He also says that most people who believe in such theories aren't mentally ill. He says, as you quote, conspiracy theories have a tendancy to attract those who are mentally ill. This is true, look at many of the posts on this website, people who think they are Jesus are obviously mentally ill. A common symptom of mental illness is the want to make yourself more than you are, more important than you will ever be. Conspiracy theories allow people to do this by thinking they're being gang stalked for whatever reason, or thinking their phone is tapped ect. I do not rule out the possibilty that in some cases these claims may be true, but in most they simply are not.

Instead of claiming most of us are crazy he says we don't have all the information and that since many of us expose ourself to only one type of information then we generate more of a bias and a mistrust of government or of anything and therefore it is possible that we will become extremised. I don't agree with him on this but he's not saying we need to be put in prison for questioning authority.

I'd like to debate with the guy about it to be honest, he seems pretty down to earth from his writing.

But now I'm a disinfo agent and I've infiltrated ATS, oh noes.

reply to post by getreadyalready


He also adresses the fact that many conspiracy theories are inconsequential. Santa claus is the example he uses.

=)

Anyone that thinks the government should be in the business of controlling peoples ideas is nuts.

I can see them now spamming 2nd amendment websites with bogus gun statistics, spamming pro-constitution websites with illegitimate supreme court rulings, spamming ron paul websites with neo-nahtzi trash to discredit him, spamming REAL climate science websites with bogus government paid research papers, spamming 9/11 websites with out-right lies, spamming any website that in any way questions the US totalitarian fascist government with lies and State approved propaganda.

Hell, they are probably in this forum right now spamming it with lies.

If this clown is out publicly stating they should be doing it, its because they already are.

ha! they wanna ban it so we get more dumbed down, now aware of whats going on around us, behind closed doors. They dont want 9/11 officaly investigated, JFK. Its just another attempt, so money can continue ot be laundered too AIG and the like, so we dont know about it* and the impedning taxes King george Obama has lined up*

Wait, so is there any legitimate sources for this stuff other than WorldNetDaily? If not, I highly suggest to any free thinkers out there that this should be taken with a super fine grain of salt. I for one don't trust WND for the following reasons:

1) Have they ever reported a story without skewering the facts to hell?

2) They publish books by Michael Savage, one of the biggest bigots running around acting as a mouthpiece for the postmodern patriot movement.

3) Jerome Corsi is an idiot and warmonger who wants to see nothing more than a few bombs dropped on Iran

4) They publish books by Katherine Harris, who has received illegal campaign contributions from arms manufacturers.

5) The founder, Joseph Farah, is a member of the Council for National Policy (allegedly did shady stuff for the CIA in the past) alongside characters such as Oliver North, Nelson Baker Hunt, Sarah Palin, Pat Robertson, Ed Meese, Jerry Falwell and Rev. Sun Myung Moon. Oh yeah, and Farah also does "consulting work" for the Ariel Center for Policy Research, a think-tank who promotes the following view. "Peace is a noble challenge and there is no other nation in the world which needs peace more than Israel." There membership includes notorious neo-cons Frank J. Gaffney, Jr. and Meyrav Wurmser, World Zionist Organization official Moshe Sharon and William R. Van Cleave, who made a career out of linking Saddam Hussein to al-Qaeda back in the late 90s.

Yeah, WorldNetDaily. I don't think they really have the American citizens best interest at heart, if you know what I mean...


[edit on 14-1-2010 by Someone336]

double post

[edit on 14-1-2010 by Someone336]

reply to post by Someone336


www.abovetopsecret.com...

There's a legit source man, and yes they skewered the facts to all hell. The essay sunstein wrote is not anywhere near what people are saying it is.

Albeit it does have its moments, it's not a new system of government control or anything nearly as outlandish.

The link to the actual essay:

papers.ssrn.com...

Originally posted by Mr Headshot
reply to post by Someone336

 

www.abovetopsecret.com...

There's a legit source man, and yes they skewered the facts to all hell. The essay sunstein wrote is not anywhere near what people are saying it is.

Albeit it does have its moments, it's not a new system of government control or anything nearly as outlandish.

dude, the abstract of the paper says it right out in the open:

Because those who hold conspiracy theories typically suffer from a “crippled epistemology,” in accordance with which it is rational to hold such theories, the best response consists in cognitive infiltration of extremist groups.

In laymans terms:

Because those who hold conspiracy theories are obviously insane, we must infiltrate their groups so we can discredit them and push government approved propaganda.

That is the regulatory czar openly stating that government should infiltrate private groups of citizens and attempt to discredit and stifle their free speech.

It is impossible to see that any other way.

Do you trust the same people that gave the banks 27 trillion tax payer dollars to judge what is a "conspiracy" and what is not?

They will attack gun rights, free speech rights, political dissent, ron paul, and anyone else that gets in their way. Such programs are ILLEGAL under the constitution, but of course no one gives a flying crap about the constitution these days.





[edit on 15-1-2010 by mnemeth1]