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Obama staffer wants 'cognitive infiltration' of 9/11 conspiracy groups

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posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 07:56 AM
I first started learning about conspiracies and conspiracy theories when I was six years old.

So as Mister Cass Sunstein would say I have always suffered from ‘crippled epistemology’, though the truth is when I was 6 the Internet as we know it was still decades away and studying conspiracies required a lot of additional news sources so much to Cass’s chagrin I was likely suffering from ‘enhanced epistemology’!

Of course this made me a rebel at a young age and as often or not a rebel without a cause.

When I first stumbled across this story last night my initial reaction was what my initial reaction has always been in the face of something draconian and intrusive by authority and that’s irreverence to it.

Yet all flippancy aside this article as so many things I see transpiring online on the Internet these days reminded me of a very prophetic and somewhat disturbing quote I ran across a while ago by a famed Canadian writer and communications experts named Marshall McLuhan.

This is that quote.

"World War III will be a guerilla information war, with no division
between military and civilian participation."
Marshall McLuhan

The quote has struck me as particularly insightful in an eerie way because Marshall McLuhan died in 1980 well before the Internet truly got off the ground and into everyone’s home and office.

When I got up this morning and began thinking more about this story regarding Sunstein and ‘Cognitive Infiltration’ I could not help but thing of this quote yet again and then I had an epiphany.

Many of us have imagined that World War III will be a mass war between the Judean Christian West and the Islamic and Communist East. Many of us theorize at the end of this war what’s left of humanity will be herded and compelled into a one world government forced down our throats at the barrel of a gun.

Yet if Marshall McLuhan was right, and there is every indication to think he is right based on not just the passion of the disparate sides who argue their agendas here on ATS, and things like Cass Sunsteins open ambitions for the government to participate in these information wars too, maybe what we imagine World War III to be is all wrong.

Maybe it’s not going to be East versus West but us versus them, the people of the world battling the governments of the world to finally get the truth and real information exposed and put out there that will lead to the fundamental upheaval that will topple corrupt and dishonest governments and corporations from one end of the world to the other?

Maybe what World War III is really going to be about are the people battling the establishment for not just the preservation of free speech and free will and freedom of the press but for the first time since the golden age of Greece elevating those precious things beyond the governments and the corporation’s ability to control or stop them?

That truly would be a battle royal and a step forward for humanity if the people could win and maybe just maybe that’s why someone like Cass Sunstein and his abhorrent notions are being promoted by the U.S. Government which is arguably the most powerful on the planet.

We might all need to rethink what we imagine World War III to be and like Marshall McLuhan suggested realize that we are not only already in it now, but fighting it now as evidenced by this article and Sunstein’s initiatives!

Fight the good fight!

[edit on 14/1/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 08:09 AM
Warm and very appreciative thanks to everyone who has been posting to the thread and flagging it. I stayed up pretty late last night getting this thread started when I ran across the story at 1:00 AM in the morning. I was very interested in seeing this get maximum exposure here on ATS.

I think this is a story that we can all agree effects us all on both sides of the divide when it comes to people for and against these kinds of actions by the government.

The good news is that we really (those of us who favor conspiracy theories) aren’t just a fringe element anymore but one that is having a growing impact and is viewed as an increasing threat by the Government and the Corporations and the Powers that Be.

Right or wrong this is an admission on their part we are having an impact. That’s good news in my book! (Yet to be written or published check with future publisher for price and availability)

I am going to fire off some emails and letters to my Senators and Congress People about this one. Remember 2010 will be a hotly contested election and while the impact of writing our representatives is uncertain there are more ways than just here on the Internet we can have our voices heard and our displeasure known!

Thanks again for everyone who has been posting on this story.

posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 08:12 AM

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
You know, I'm trying to glean hidden motives behind the dissemination of such a document, or knowingly hiring the guy who wrote it ...

Whether or not it was the driving force behind it, one must consider the potentially significant psy-ops parameters/elements. Namely that the more effective way to attack the CT community is to sit back, plant a story like this, and let our natural suspicion pit us against each other in a cataclysm of mistrust. It is a lot easier to do than take the time and effort to infiltrate thousands of forums and blogs. Just hang back and watch us go at each other's throats believing that every one who disagrees must now be a government shill.

It's already happening on this thread a little.

Like I said ... it's something to consider.

This has been happening on ATS for quite some time now. When someone posts a counter to a conspiracy, they are often called out as working for the TPTB or as a disinformation agent. Thing is the goverment would not need to do any infiltrating, there is more then enough paranoia going on anyway so just chalk this up as a -fail- idea.

posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 08:26 AM
What I think is that "Conspiracy Theories" aren't fringe anymore, now they are becoming mainstream, and that is a major danger to the PTB.

No longer do you have people just laughing when someone starts talking about a conspiracy, now people pay more attention.

Case in point, this morning I am at work, one of the guests is a MIT educated engineer going to the Detroit Auto Show. While waiting for his shuttle to the airport, he starts talking about how the FED works. Telling me about how the owners of the FED are all European bankers and talking about the NWO. I almost asked him what his ATS username was.

People are waking up, it took a long time, but people are getting the fact that our government is not generally working in the best interests of the people.

I know, I know, "but Wuk! You support the government on this site more than anyone!" Well no, I don't, I just feed reality into the situation, sometimes on this site, the insanity gets too much, and sometimes someone has to be the voice of reason, the problem is, I don't see a whole lot of threads about the real core problems. When I do start them, I get a couple replies, and then it disappears.

But now thanks to the internet and thanks to people actually paying attention, the general populace is actually waking up to the problems that are happening in this world, they see that the majority aren't really in charge, they see that the government isn't working in the best interest of the people, and now, and NOW, the government is scared. Because no longer do they have the vital control of information that is key to controlling a population, always has been, always will be.

And they do want to control it. Because without that control of information, they don't have control at all, as they say, information is ammunition. That ammunition is the most devastating kind that the people can muster. Our pen is now the internet, and that is, always has been, and always will be mightier than the sword.

If you want to change this world for the better, you have got to keep the free flow of information flowing. But you have to keep that information honest. People see bull dunk for what it is, they won't support you for long if you lie to them. So it's more important than ever to really research, really fact check, and really make damn sure that what you post on here and other places is the truth. Without the truth, they have an in, because, they can manipulate lies anyway they want. They can discredit you, they can mock you, they can cripple your message by finding the chink in the armor of your truth.

posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 08:36 AM
Which 9-11 conspiracy theory is being referred to as delusional?The one where the barely able-to-fly fanatics got through the most heavily protected airspace,etc?

We truthers are not actually the ones drawing conclusions,we feel the need for an actual investigation,covering,bdg 7,stand down order,free fall speed,put options uncollected(Buzzy,talkin to you),ISI money,shanksville lack-of-debris,plane phone call claims,and about a thousand other little fact-y-poo's.With lie detectors.

Only difinitive statements are from the O.S. conspiracy propper-uppers.And spoken with SUCH authority.

Bring on the professional disinfo boys and gals,they'll do no better than the usual amateur suspects hereabouts.After the years arguing facts with these here,I could do it in my sleep and win.

posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 08:39 AM
The following is my response to the paper 'Conspiracy Theories' written by Cass R. Sunstein and Adrian Vermeule:

While reading prof. Sunstein/Vermeule's article one critical thinking error kept popping into my head; 'begging the question'. When someone is making this particular error, they are unsafely assuming a premise to be true that were it to be false would completely undermine or render as nonsense their position, statement, thesis or question. The question being begged in Sunstein/Vermeule's paper is; Are, as a rule, conspiracies theories false and is that falsehood due to a crippled epistemology by the believers of any conspiracy theory? I haven't read through the whole paper yet but early on in it they make two separate statements that would tend to indicate that any assumption that a conspiracy theory is false is an unsafe assumption. Profs. Sunstein/Vermeule state:

The academic literature on conspiracy theories is thin, and most of it falls into one of two classes: (1) work by analytic philosophers, especially in epistemology and the philosophy of science, that asks what counts as a “conspiracy theory” and whether such theories are methodologically suspect

But instead of examining the conclusions of the analytical philosophers that have studied this subject, they make what seems to me as an epistemological cop-out by explaining their non-addressment of the epistemological foundations of conspiracy theories:

because the conceptual questions are both less tractable and less interesting than the social and institutional ones

I would suggest to Sunstein/Vermeule that perhaps the tractable difficulties in this subject matter are due to the complexities of the conspiracy theories that apparently they would prefer to overlook in favor of examining what is more interesting for them, at least; the social and institutional questions. While maybe they find the pesky question of 'what is true' to be a frustrating obstacle that they would prefer to walk around while looking the other way at the pretty scenery as they walk along their political academic path, I'd like to remind them that if conspiracy theories as a rule, tend to be more true than false, then the whole thesis of their paper would have to be completely redone to retain any semblance of tenability.

And indeed a little further along the paper they recognize a number of conspiracy theories that have turned out to be true such as Watergate and MKULTRA. Therefore, I find it puzzling that Sunstein/Vermeule recognize both that analytical philosophers have found a genuine academic interest into looking at the epistemological foundations of conspiracy theories and that past conspiracy theories have turned out be true. I find it puzzling because of their glaring ignorance of the question (a question that's being begged) of; If your unwilling to closely examine the epistemological foundations of conspiracy theories, due to lack of interest, then how can you, Sunstein & Vermeule, be so sure that the forums your suggesting be infiltrated, are not discussing theories that are true like MKULTRA and Watergate turned out to be?

[edit on 14-1-2010 by QtheQ]

[edit on 14-1-2010 by QtheQ]

posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 08:39 AM
Here's something for *everyone* in the camp that says 9-11 wasn't done by the govt: If it was actually terrorists, why take such extreme measures to stifle the 'conspiracy people'? If we're all just blowing smoke, we'll all be discredited by FACTS- so why waste the energy.....

Someone needs to kick him right in his epistemology and cripple it but good.

posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 08:41 AM

Originally posted by NuclearPaul
I hope it backfires on them.

Exposing their "infiltrators" to the truth is a risky move...

And what do they hope to achieve by this? Converting people? Or creating a database of "cyber terrorists"?

[edit on 14/1/10 by NuclearPaul]

I think you said it mate.

America (Govt) is always looking for enemies to destroy. Keeping tabs on enemies of the state is nothing different. I assume that this is already going on here at ATS. This site is not unknown.

A database of IP addresses would not surprise me.

Who knows, if something happened one day and any of us were near the event or supposed yo have been involved - this site would give them "evidence" of anti-american propaganda and subsequent intent to carry out an act of "terrorism".

This is incredibly unnerving.

posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 08:43 AM
They better hope to God, they don't mess with professional hackers. I'm not one, but some are....

[edit on 1/14/2010 by ShadowKingpin]

posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 08:48 AM
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

President Barack Obama's appointee to head the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs advocated "cognitive infiltration" of groups that advocate "conspiracy theories" like the ones surrounding 9/11.

Excellent find Protoplasmic! I find this to be very interesting indeed. I believe the interest this adviser has in conspiracy theories might be a good thing. I mean why not ask them to make themselves known on this site. If they could refute some of these conspiracies then let them provide the real evidence and steer everyone in the right direction. We know this will not happen.

More than likely they are going to be collecting information on people to be used against them at a later time. Sad, but true. I guess we'll all be on their naughty list. Star and flag for sure and keep up the great work.

posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 08:59 AM

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally posted by NuclearPaul
I hope it backfires on them.

Exposing their "infiltrators" to the truth is a risky move...

This guy seems pretty dangerous in my book. Some Republicans here in the U.S. accuse him of wanting to rewrite the 2nd Amendment.

He wants to hold web sites accountable for the things that posters say on them and make it easier for people to be sued for libel for the things that they say online.

Definitely not a good guy to have in the Administration if you ask me, not that anyone is!

Sunstein "wants to hold blogs and web hosting services accountable for the remarks of commenters on websites while altering libel laws to make it easier to sue for spreading 'rumors,"

So in other words, He wants to shut people up. If you don't agree with the government version of things you will be sued. This guy is a danger to our freedom and liberty and I am appalled that he is anywhere the White House.

[edit on 1/14/2010 by Erasurehead]

posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 09:02 AM
I bet that obama is going to spend more on this guy doing this
then it would take to open a new investigation

posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 09:04 AM
reply to post by jackflap

Thankfully it’s only Santa’s naughty list that counts! (You get chocolates and shaving supplies on Christmas Day courtesy of Warden Santa in Federal Prison)

Goes to prove that the jolly big red man has his own criteria for what’s naughty and nice that overrides everyone else’s!

Who knows there might come a day being on the government watch lists is not just a badge of honor but one of integrity and courage too that the citizens end up respecting more than these insane politicians.

The government is between a rock and a hard place in that society is too large and too integrated with instant electronic communications to manage, control it and profit off of it to do away with the Internet.

They will never be able to outright sensor it too without a one world government as people would just look for ways to route their internet communications through unrestricted countries. This already happens routinely in places like China.

So the best they can do is try to fight what might be a loosing battle against an increasingly aware population that despite purposefully lowered state educational standards continues to learn on it’s own at it’s own pace and on the subjects that they feel most effect them in life.

That often is coincidentally the things that a corrupt government and corrupt corporations do that conspiracy theorists try to expose and put forth alternative theories as to why they are happening.

I think the government is fighting a loosing battle on this front and just trying to buy time against a rising tide that they know sooner or later is going to overwhelm Washington and other corporate run governments and the huge corporate monopolies that those governments are beholden to and run by.

I see this far more as an act of desperation as opposed to the Powers that Be getting an upper hand back on something that has clearly gotten away from them in recent years.

Thanks for posting my friend. Big star for you!

posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 09:04 AM
I think this only validates what we already know. Many people, some of whom in government service know the OS is a sham and it only demostrates that the truther movement is strong and is being heard.

Why else would a socialist President or his staff feel the need to infiltrate then?

[edit on 14-1-2010 by mikelee]

posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 09:07 AM

Originally posted by mikelee
I think this only validates what we already know. Many people, some of whom in government service know the OS is a sham and it only demostrates that the truther movement is strong and is being heard.

Why else would a socialist President feel the need to infiltrate then?

I always say that the Truthers are winning.

The speed of which people are being made aware of the lies, is

way ahead, thanks to the internet, than the planners anticapated.

Mainstream TV has jumped on the Truth wagon.

posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 09:12 AM

Originally posted by mikelee
I think this only validates what we already know. Many people, some of whom in government service know the OS is a sham and it only demostrates that the truther movement is strong and is being heard.

Why else would a socialist President feel the need to infiltrate then?

You bring up a good point. Why the need to infiltrate these groups if there is nothing to what they are saying? They seem scared that the truth will be uncovered.

posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 09:14 AM
Wow! There's really nothing I can add to the excellent replies on this groundbreaking thread. Great job, PT and everyone! Just wanted to include myself among the anti-"crippled epistimology" group. Truth will out. The Force (momentum) is with us. The disinfo Borg are obviously getting more nervous.

posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 09:16 AM

Id like them to infiltrate that number. it isnt going to work. they ware way to late to stop this steam roller.

what they are trying to do just proves this 911 conspiracy has some truth to it. they wont censor me, and they can try, but they will not be able to!

I really hope they show their ugly heads. were waiting for them. ATS has been warned, and its going to be as Alex Jones put it (yes im using AJ), An Information WAR!

this story sent shivers down my spine, but it will not shake me, but will just fuel my resolve, and the resolve of others pushing for truth.

S&F OP. great find. now lets find these infiltrators, and stick a fork in them, because they are done!

[edit on 1/14/2010 by ugie1028]

posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 09:17 AM
IMO they are really after the people who spread BS as truth. The kind of BS that gets debunked on ATS but not on other similar websites. There are a lot of sites on the internet where no facts are ever checked to ensure a theory's credibility.

posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 09:18 AM
reply to post by mikelee

Much of the OS is getting unraveled each day by many of us pointing out mistakes that contradict one another, facts that are now proven not to be facts, ties to 911 by corporations/foreign agencys & domestic agencys etc. The list is large and its growing daily in regards to the lies surrounding 911 and the OS.

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