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Obama staffer wants 'cognitive infiltration' of 9/11 conspiracy groups

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posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by Donny 4 million
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


I would have thought you would have gotten a message like this.

"Good day Proto, no need to leave your contact information because we already know about your thread. Watch your mail box for your invitation to the next Presidential Ball."


I did actually call the number provided and it really is a voice mail box for Cass Sustein at the Chicago University.

I really did leave my name and telephone number and tell him the name of the Web Site and the name of the Thread if he was interested in viewing the responses and or responding to me.

I haven't gotten a call back but I did have a good day picking on other Government Officials. I really love knowing so much about the law! The meanings of the hidden laws here in America. People really should pay more attention to some of the information shared here on ATS there is absolutely great power involved in some of it.




posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 04:35 PM
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Well this is just great.

Now generally skeptical people like me will be immediately written off as "government agents" spreading disinformation. It was already hard enough to make a logical argument. I don't think I'll even bother anymore...



posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 06:00 PM
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reply to post by CaptainIraq
 


Don't worry Captain Iraq honest skeptics are always welcome here on ATS!

Everything will be alright, you'll see!



posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 06:15 PM
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reply to post by CaptainIraq
 


I at one time felt that exact emotion, why bother?

Well if only for your own information, what about that person just stopping by to see what is going on.

If we as a unit of information can show the truth to say 3 people and then out of those 3-2 go onto spread the info. It is a exponential/viral spread of the truth.

Do not ever give up hope, that is what they want.

edit to add-What I mean by the spread of truth, is exactly that, truth.

Conspiracy theorists or investigators need, the denialists/debunkers/skeptics for the main purpose of proving without a reasonable doubt.

We cannot just come up with a theory and not have the correlating evidence.

[edit on 1/15/2010 by endisnighe]



posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 06:15 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 



I really did leave my name and telephone number and tell him the name of the Web Site and the name of the Thread if he was interested in viewing the responses and or responding to me.


Now this would be epic and deserving of its own thread. I would love to see what he has to say about his statements. I will be watching closely. Very closely.



posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 06:18 PM
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Originally posted by jackflap
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 



I really did leave my name and telephone number and tell him the name of the Web Site and the name of the Thread if he was interested in viewing the responses and or responding to me.


Now this would be epic and deserving of its own thread. I would love to see what he has to say about his statements. I will be watching closely. Very closely.


Well I would bet dollars to donuts that if he retrieves the message in a timely way he will actually check out this thread but likely as a lurker.

From an academic standpoint, and as a man with a theory, seeing how the very people he wrote about respond to his theory would be to intriquing to ignore from an academic standpoint.

I would not expect him to respond on line on the record in any way that could later be used against him or discredit him, but I would say it's a safe bet he will read the thread once he retrieves his messages or shortly there after out of simple curiosity.

If by chance he contacts me, or someone from his office contacts me I will make a thread about that.

Thanks for posting my friend.



posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 07:15 PM
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I really enjoyed reading the whole thread. Proto is a very amusing writer. This story is not only reported on websites which mainly deal with conspiracy theories. Glenn Greenwald picked it up in his article Obama confidant's spine-chilling proposal.


It's certainly true that one can easily find irrational conspiracy theories in those venues, but some of the most destructive "false conspiracy theories" have emanated from the very entity Sunstein wants to endow with covert propaganda power: namely, the U.S. Government itself, along with its elite media defenders. Moreover, "crazy conspiracy theorist" has long been the favorite epithet of those same parties to discredit people trying to expose elite wrongdoing and corruption.

Who is it who relentlessly spread "false conspiracy theories" of Saddam-engineered anthrax attacks and Iraq-created mushroom clouds and a Ba'athist/Al-Qaeda alliance -- the most destructive conspiracy theories of the last generation?

And who is it who demonized as "conspiracy-mongers" people who warned that the U.S. Government was illegally spying on its citizens, systematically torturing people, attempting to establish permanent bases in the Middle East, or engineering massive bailout plans to transfer extreme wealth to the industries which own the Government? The most chronic and dangerous purveyors of "conspiracy theory" games are the very people Sunstein thinks should be empowered to control our political debates through deceit and government resources: namely, the Government itself and the Enlightened Elite like him. It is this history of government deceit and wrongdoing that renders Sunstein's desire to use covert propaganda to "undermine" anti-government speech so repugnant.

The reason conspiracy theories resonate so much is precisely that people have learned -- rationally -- to distrust government actions and statements. Sunstein's proposed covert propaganda scheme is a perfect illustration of why that is. In other words, people don't trust the Government and "conspiracy theories" are so pervasive precisely because government is typically filled with people like Cass Sunstein, who think that systematic deceit and government-sponsored manipulation are justified by their own Goodness and Superior Wisdom.

www.salon.com...



posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 07:42 PM
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reply to post by Drunkenshrew
 


Thanks friend, and thanks for posting your additions. I thought this story and ATS were made for one another.

It will be interesting to see just to what extent Sunsteins ideas are acted upon within the Administration.

Something to keep an eye on.

Thanks for posting.



posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 08:00 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


I would have thought you would have gotten a message like this.

"Good day Proto, no need to leave your contact information because we already know about your thread. Watch your mail box for your invitation to the next Presidential Ball."


I did actually call the number provided and it really is a voice mail box for Cass Sustein at the Chicago University.

I really did leave my name and telephone number and tell him the name of the Web Site and the name of the Thread if he was interested in viewing the responses and or responding to me.

I haven't gotten a call back but I did have a good day picking on other Government Officials. I really love knowing so much about the law! The meanings of the hidden laws here in America. People really should pay more attention to some of the information shared here on ATS there is absolutely great power involved in some of it.




Very good.

If you leave personal information on a DisInfo tax payer based answering machine---
You just might be a redneck,
Pass the chittlins, The South will rise again!



posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 08:18 PM
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reply to post by Donny 4 million
 


Actually Donny I have no fear of the government or their tactics.

I have been fighting the government my whole life. I honestly don't know what I would do without them to pick on!

If you can honestly say what you are doing and saying is right in your heart and your mind even if the government takes exception to it, well that's their problem and their loss.

The government was never supposed to be something honest citizens have to fear. Why so many honest citizens do end up feeling they have to fear it and cower and submit to it, is how government got out of control in the first place.



posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 08:45 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Donny 4 million
 


Actually Donny I have no fear of the government or their tactics.

I have been fighting the government my whole life. I honestly don't know what I would do without them to pick on!

If you can honestly say what you are doing and saying is right in your heart and your mind even if the government takes exception to it, well that's their problem and their loss.

The government was never supposed to be something honest citizens have to fear. Why so many honest citizens do end up feeling they have to fear it and cower and submit to it, is how government got out of control in the first place.



I knew in my hart you were Ron Paul and opposed to Cass and his evil propositions.
Now I don't know what to do. Go to confession, take late night communion. or burn some incense.
I am glad you converted me instead of the guy that is lost in the mountains looking for Nirvana.
It is good to be in the company of my peers.



posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 08:53 PM
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reply to post by Donny 4 million
 


Well Donny would you like to make a career out of just complaining about the evils of the world through snide remarks and getting warning labels attached to your profile or....

Would you rather confront the evil head on and challenge it directly.

I picked up the phone and called Cass Sunstien to challenge it directly.

There is something to be said for the direct approach you know!



posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 09:21 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Proto,

I have decided to follow my heart and submit my Declaration of Sovereignty. I have been researching now for the past year on everything here and elsewhere. I cannot stand on the sidelines and be dishonorable to the memory of all of our leaders of the past.

There is a time when everyone must stand and be counted.

I like your style.

God Bless and Peace.



posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 09:42 PM
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reply to post by endisnighe
 


You should my friend, I got a letter in the mail today from a Law Firm looking to collect 317.00 on behalf of Miami-Dade County for a electronic toll violation they claim I committed over a year ago even though I have a Sunpass Transponder and funds in the account.

It took me 4 hours and 42 calls to the toll free number on the letter to finally get one of the Firm's attorneys on the line.

During that time I documented 6 major felonies including Mail Fraud, unlawful misrepresentation, and non-disclosure amongst others.

The Attorney that finally contacted me immediately refused to have the call recorded when I told him I was recording the call and if that was alright.

I laughed. He was a former State Prosecutor in Florida before joining this Firm that collects debts for the IRS, Cities, and States across the country.

I literally ate the man for a late lunch and exposed his every lie and misrepresentation.

In turn citing him the actual laws and procedures and all about the corporate government, the corrupt and non-constitutional State and Federal Statutes, common law, Captain's law, and his obligations as an officer of the court, even what License meant, and why people had to have Driver's License's because the practice violates the constitution, and what the definition of a Driver is legally, being a Teemster because your car has horsepower in the engine, and that if you transport anyone who has a social security number or birth certificate because those register people with the department of commerce you are engaged in a commercial process that can be regulated by the Department of Commerce even though you aren't even being paid!

I even told him about the Judiciary oath's of office and how if need be not only would I force a Judge to disclose them in open court but I would drag his firms illegalities and criminal endeavors and racketeering into it if I had to go to open court and demand the State compensate me for my time and inconvenience.

I told him you have two choices you can make this matter go away as an officer of the court and cut me a check for 317.00 dollars as a penalty for aggrivating and inconveniencing me, or I will take care of the matter myself in open court and expose your firm to the State's Attorney Generals in every state you operate in, and to the Clerk of the Court and to the Miami Mayor and City Commission.

He tried one more feeble attempt to disuade me, and I simply said...

"Rome offers you War or Peace, it matters not to Rome which you decide"

He rolled over and said how should I cut your check and where do you want me to send it!

It's fun being a sovereign my friend, it truly is!

Sometimes quite profitible too!



posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 11:18 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by jackflap
 


Poor Cass what's patently absurd is patently absurd.

Could you imagine going down to the patent office and saying, hey I have this really absurd notion and I want to patent it?

The reality is our Government is absurd!


That's actually a pretty good way to sum it up. I have no arguments with that.



posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 11:33 PM
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Originally posted by jackflap

Well think about it. This guy is concerned that people seek out the same things that they believe. He even admits that this has always been the case even before the internet. So people would entertain their ideas and so on without the internet back in the day.

Now with the advent of the internet, everyone can share their ideas globally. With no access to some materials, theories are made. Ideas spring up. So if those ideas are not to his liking, or what he deems to be correct, they are patently false. He'll work toward severely restricting the internet I'm sure.

Why don't they just come right and tell us what the real truth is then? With the documentation to accompany it. Oh, that will not work either? Because of what? National security and stuff along those lines? Right. These are the people running the show. How do we get ourselves out of this hurt locker?


Well, its like I said before. There are 350 million idiots in this country (that's you and me) that can't seem to make a few thousand people (the politicians) do what we tell them to do.

The key here is realizing who has the power...In the end, its us.

1.Without our spending (there is no economy)
2.Without our working (there are no products)
3.Without our political support (there are no elections)
4.Without our support and the people who constantly sign up for the service (there is no military)
5.Without our devotion to the television (There is no media or political leveraging)
6.Without our devotion for entertainment ( There are no distractions keeping us from logical and critical thought.)
7.Without our attention to commercials (There is no mood altering pharmaceutical industry...Prozac, Zoloft, or any of the other things that are designed to keep you numb and also void of multidimensional thinking)
8.Without our constant digestion of media (There is no fear)
9. Without our need to identify with nationalism (There are no reasons to harm others of different societies)
10. Without our participation in religion (There would be no way to manipulate our emotions of guilt, fear, and theistic ideologies)

So, once WE decide to quit playing the game that the politicians and the world governments have set up for us to lose, then WE can begin to establish the new parameters for reality.

P.S.

I totally agree with everything that you have stated, and the OP has created a great thread.


[edit on 15-1-2010 by EvolvedMinistry]



posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 11:41 PM
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By Infiltrating these conspiracy theory groups, then its like the gov is openly admitting that there is weight and concern to our collaborations. If its all garbage then let us discuss our stories of "little green men" and dont worry about it . The more they are converned about the levels of information we discuss, the more we must be on the right track. Sh 1ts all happening now isnt it! They need to quench it before a critical mass of people have general knowledge of these things. The internet its their biggest enemy. China have a solution to that - like a chinese version of AOL. maybe its called ccp-online ???

But This is not communist china. We can discuss our "wacky" ideas all we like.



posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 11:43 PM
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Originally posted by CaptainIraq
Well this is just great.

Now generally skeptical people like me will be immediately written off as "government agents" spreading disinformation. It was already hard enough to make a logical argument. I don't think I'll even bother anymore...


Nah...There's usually an obvious difference between a genuinely skeptical person who is questioning information verses an adamant and paid debunker.

You're still safe here.



posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 11:51 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Obama staffer wants 'cognitive infiltration' of 9/11 conspiracy groups


rawstory.com

By Daniel Tencer

In a 2008 academic paper, President Barack Obama's appointee to head the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs advocated "cognitive infiltration" of groups that advocate "conspiracy theories" like the ones surrounding 9/11.

Cass Sunstein, a Harvard law professor, co-wrote an academic article entitled "Conspiracy Theories: Causes and Cures," in which he argued that the government should stealthily infiltrate groups that pose alternative theories on historical events via "chat rooms, online social networks, or even real-space groups and attempt to undermine
(visit the link for the full news article)


We Must Tell 9/11 Conspiracy Groups to defends 9/11 Conspiracy theory from just anyone that want to debunks 9/11 Conspiracy Theory!



posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 11:57 PM
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Originally posted by personal stalker
I haven't read all of the posts in this thread, just the first page, but does anybody actually think that TPTB haven't already done this? The article focuses mainly on online groups, and if you haven't taken a look at many of the YouTube videos, blogs, and websites in existance, and the contradictory theories they present, well, you must be living in a cave. I understand that a lot of the videos and theories out there truly are ridiculous, but I've often thought that the search results for 9/11 on YouTube contain a lot of garbage. There are users I have seen that spend a LOT of time tying to debunk any theory that goes against the "official story". Kinda like it's their full time job. I'm sure there's already been a program already in place for YEARS to infiltrate and debunk any alternative story, whether the current administration knows about it or not.

Peace.


I don't think anyone is actually questioning whether it was already occurring, it was the fact that this article has actually "exposed" this practice directly from the mouth of one of its current architects.

I think that the main object here is the "Validation" of many members' previous suspicions about the nature of ATS debunkers. This article also lends credence to the many numbers of ATS members claims that there are a fair amount of disinformation agents that are currently working this site, especially due to the fact that it is the largest conspiracy website on the internet.

So, given the information that the article provides, it is safe to assume that member complaints of Disinformation Agents being employed to work ATS is accurate. In effect, we can literally point our fingers at this situation and say..."I TOLD YOU SO."

However, I'm sure that the debunkers will attempt to find a way to debunk this article. They'll make attacks against the publication, the journalist, and even the moron (I'm not going to even say his name) that the article is about. They'll probably try to note a lack of experience, an Obama failure, or something that points out the lack of his penis size (you know, they'll use any tactic to attempt to discredit him). Hence, they'll be successful at debunking the idea that professional debunking exists.

Here's a link from wikipedia. It actually has great references and provides historical evidence of the United States' previous tactics and involvement with this type of information warfare.

en.wikipedia.org...


[edit on 16-1-2010 by EvolvedMinistry]

[edit on 16-1-2010 by EvolvedMinistry]




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