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posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 01:43 AM
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reply to post by mmiichael
 



Okay. I have spoken to many pro-israeli jewish people here. You my friend are pathetic. You are the worst kind of bias because you are simple-minded ignorant that sees no wrong from Israel. I will no longer entertain your diatribe.

Good luck in the future...

AAC




posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 02:18 AM
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Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation

Okay. I have spoken to many pro-israeli jewish people here. You my friend are pathetic. You are the worst kind of bias because you are simple-minded ignorant that sees no wrong from Israel. I will no longer entertain your diatribe.

Good luck in the future...


And I've spent my life living in many countries working with and befriending Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists.

I have never said I have any prejudice against any people, but I do criticize bad leaders and regimes that cause pain, suffering and death to their own people.

To ensure that I have a fairly clear understanding I things I use credible unbiased sources.

You repeat the disinformation and distortions of agenda driven sources and try to call hate literature history. I pointed it out with your article from a known Neo-Nazi source.

This is pure malign propaganda. Attempt like this to spread hatred may pass for information exchange among the young, the ignorant the overly paranoid, but it is not accepted among intelligent, reasonable, civil people.

I doubt any of what I say will register.

Good luck to you. You'll need it.


M




[edit on 19-1-2010 by mmiichael]



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 02:25 AM
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reply to post by mmiichael
 


I will apologize for using a questionable source. But I myself am used to questioning all facts with reliable sources, and I know for certain that Judea declared war on Germany in 1933, and I just google the key words (because I knew it happened).

But... with that adnission, you must now comment on the fact that Judea (And Jews all over the world) declared war on Germany, and asked other Jews to boycott German products. Now my friend, if you were the leader of a country, and there was a world war and you had ene,ies within your borders, would you not send them to POW camps?

That was the question at hand, btw.

AAC

[edit on 19-1-2010 by AnAbsoluteCreation]



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 04:12 AM
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Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
reply to post by mmiichael
 


I will apologize for using a questionable source. But I myself am used to questioning all facts with reliable sources, and I know for certain that Judea declared war on Germany in 1933, and I just google the key words (because I knew it happened).

But... with that adnission, you must now comment on the fact that Judea (And Jews all over the world) declared war on Germany, and asked other Jews to boycott German products. Now my friend, if you were the leader of a country, and there was a world war and you had ene,ies within your borders, would you not send them to POW camps?

That was the question at hand, btw.



As you try to be reasonable so will I.

Let’s start with perspective, A metaphor used in an inconsequential article written 77 years ago, dug up by fringe conspiracists for their websites, cannot be construed as a definitive characterization of events involving entire nations and international trade relations.

The notion of Jews literally declaring war on Germany is not even worth considering. Germany was a major world power with millions of square miles of territory, a population of tens of millions, a complex fully empowered government and legal system, enormous international trade, a modern military with ships and tanks, a massive economic breadth of many billions of deutchmarks,

Whatever advancements some may have had, the Jews of the world were mostly second class citizens wherever they lived, with zero access to any type of military infrastructure, recognized political power, or substantial leverage when compared to a major world power like Germany. At best they could try to enforce a boycott of goods restraints on an economy. Which they did.

But this is only one of a many competing factors when considering a decade of historical events that affected a billion people and the incredible complexity of international trade in Europe in the 1930s. A decade when the world's economy contracted, Communism began competing favourably with the Capitalist system, Fascism rose spontaneously. Additionally the basis of wealth and power shifted as agriculture and manufacturing became secondary to the newest form of wealth, Fuel and generating power in the form of oil resources became the lifeblood of the industrialized world. On top of that a shift began politically in Europe as the colonial system of governance started breaking down for Britain and France.

Jews may have had inordinate influence and wealth considering their small numbers, but compared to the raw financial, military and political power of an advanced country like Germany, they were almost off the charts. Management not company owners might be a good analogy.

Without wanting to sound condescending, I don’t think you have a grasp of macroeconomics or real perspective on the topics being discussed. I don’t claim to know everything but I have what I consider a fairly deep understanding of these things.
Other than touching on points, I can’t provide full insight in a message on a discussion forum. But I strongly recommend reading credible historical works by those with broad knowledge and insights into events of the early 20th Century.



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 06:07 AM
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reply to post by AnAbsoluteCreation
 


My grand fathers entire family died in Auschwitz. I've been to the camp, I saw the chambers, I saw the memorial.

This happened, and anyone who says it didn't is as guilty as the evil men who commited these crimes.



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 06:19 AM
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Explain these to me:

Ghetto and Camp photographs (archival)

How about this one...

Holocaust Remembrance

I don't care what people say about the amount of people murdered, I don't care what they say about whether or not Jews were turned into soap and I don't care what they say about the Germans and their involvement in the holocaust.

The reality remains: these photos speak for every one of the millions murdered by the Nazi party and the Third Reich. For anyone to not believe the Holocaust happened is as ignorant and insane as those who believed that the Jews were destroying their lives.

There is so much substantial proof weighing on the side of reason that the Holocaust happened, it is amazing to me that people believe it didn't.

In my honest opinion, people shouldn't be allowed to speak without having witnessed the holocaust museums in Germany and Poland.

It is horrifying, and disrespectful.

This is no attack on you Absolute, this is just a statement in regards to Holocaust Denial.

You want to be convinced? Get a plane ticket to Poland next time you have a vacation, and go see Auschwitz, you'll understand.

[edit on 19-1-2010 by Zenic]



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 09:55 AM
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reply to post by Zenic
 


I don't think anyone is denying that the Holocaust ever happened. I'm pretty sure that the point is that perhaps the Holocaust was not quite as bad as it is polarized to be.

The photos you provide are a double edged sword. Why? Because on one end you have relatively normal pictures in the "death camps", photos of prisoners playing instruments and nothing abnormal. In another instance you have pictures of piles of bodies.

I'm not going to press the issue, but the cause of death is not confirmable, nor are the counts of the numbers of deaths. What really piques my interest are the almanac records about Jewish population following WWII. This, I'm sure, should be a mystery for all.



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 10:12 AM
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Originally posted by gwydionblack

I don't think anyone is denying that the Holocaust ever happened. I'm pretty sure that the point is that perhaps the Holocaust was not quite as bad as it is polarized to be.

The photos you provide are a double edged sword. Why? Because on one end you have relatively normal pictures in the "death camps", photos of prisoners playing instruments and nothing abnormal. In another instance you have pictures of piles of bodies.

I'm not going to press the issue, but the cause of death is not confirmable, nor are the counts of the numbers of deaths. What really piques my interest are the almanac records about Jewish population following WWII. This, I'm sure, should be a mystery for all.



You fail to take into account that these pictures are just a tiny sampling of the vast amount of material available including millions who were there many of whom can still provide first hand accounts.

Holocaust deniers employ every sleazy trick in the book to deceive people and it seems to work for some.

But even the most cursory examination of the documentation, records, accounts demonstrate unequivocally that about 3 million Jews were killed in all the camps often by just being beaten the death as the stepped off the trains, that buried in mass graves. Absolute numbers will never be determined, in but 1.5 maybe closer to 2 million Jews were killed by the Einsatzgruppen who supervised town and village execution of rounded up Jews throughout the Eastern Bloc.

Add the million or more starved in the ghettoes or executed otherwise and you get a figure possibly even more than 6 million. The figure that has been known for decades.

And not exactly by coincidence. 6 million happens to coincide with estimates based on percentages found in Goebbels' diary.

Holocaust Deniers deny the Nazi's own numbers like the plague.


[edit on 19-1-2010 by mmiichael]



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by mmiichael
The notion of Jews literally declaring war on Germany is not even worth considering.


This guy's a joke.


Originally posted by mmiichael
Jews may have had inordinate influence and wealth considering their small numbers, but compared to the raw financial, military and political power of an advanced country like Germany, they were almost off the charts.


You can't be serious. Germany was reduced to a third world country post Treaty of Versailles and economic collapse. What a joke.


They had a 50 million mark banknote worth approximately $1 US. Is this indicative of raw financial power? "Wealth off the charts"?


Originally posted by Zenic
I've been to the camp, I saw the chambers, I saw the memorial.


The chambers are reconstructions.


I see no-one read the PDF I posted a page back. Predictable!



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 06:14 PM
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Originally posted by SteveR

The chambers are reconstructions.


I see no-one read the PDF I posted a page back. Predictable!


Of course they didn't read it. No one likes to be wrong. But I must admit, considering the lengths Zionist went to solidify this exaggeration of the truth, I can understand why people find it hard to fathom.

Here is what should be considered. All the evidence one can find, does it support a systematic killing operation, or a prisoner of war camp, that had lost its supply route to allied bombing?

AAC



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 06:33 PM
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The holocaust happened, the only Jews it effected were mostly the poor and middle class ones. The conspiracy isn't if it happened or not, the real conspiracy is why it happened and who funded it.



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 06:39 PM
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Originally posted by SteveR
Germany was reduced to a third world country post Treaty of Versailles and economic collapse. What a joke.

They had a 50 million mark banknote worth approximately $1 US. Is this indicative of raw financial power? "Wealth off the charts"?


Better check you calendar. Mine says 2010. You're talking about nearly century ago after an unsuccessful war. A lot of things have happened since.

As any economist will tell you a country can't be gauged by something as simple as it's currency value in a period in the past.

Apart form natural resources, strategic rivers, agricultural capability - Germany has and always will have brain power. Education, creative talent, entreprenurial skill, the ultimate Protestant work ethic - smarts.

Some countries get beaten and never rise again. Germany has shown it's resilience and the ability to turn itself around.
It is the core of the European Union and will always be in the top 5.

Hard lessons were learned in the 20th Century. Germany is modernized and technologically capable. They understand productivity as well as how to make money work.

Germany will never be a poor country no matter what it's currency is worth.


M



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 07:01 AM
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reply to post by gwydionblack
 


A double edged sword, minuse the fact that a good number of photos show Nazi officers and soldiers spitting on and degrading Jewish individuals.

Yes I agree a large number of the photos just show every day life in the ghetto, but we don't refer to everyday life when we speak of tragedy.

I can agree that some facts might be strained, or twisted because of historical inaccuracy, but when someone asks to be convinced about the holocaust all they have to do is look at the long list of historical evidence.

I don't see how there is a grey area in regards to the holocaust. The Nazi party attempted to completely erradicate a group of people. There should be no and ifs or buts about it.

Plus we know for a fact that Hitler was a loon, who was hell bent on destroying the Jews.

I have read a lot about the Holocaust denial arguement, and for the most part it's all circumstantial and tends to focus on events that we can not now go back to look at because they happened 70 years ago.

What we do know, and still have access to though, are millions of jewish skeletons.

That should be enough.



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 09:13 AM
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reply to post by mmiichael
 


I am stunned by your response. What does that have to do with the Holocaust? Keep your context relevant, we are discussing events that are almost 80 years old.

Modern Germany is a prosperous country I agree. It is not hard to see why. She has no economic borders, trades globally, has 4500 troops in Afghanistan, has banned the Nazi party, outlawed anti-semitism and has made questioning of the Holocaust a crime. In other words she has been designed by the victors to fit into the globalist model, like Japan.

Let's look at German law.


§ 130 Public Incitement

(1) Whoever, in a manner that is capable of disturbing the public peace:

2. assaults the human dignity of others by insulting, maliciously maligning, or defaming segments of the population, shall be punished with imprisonment from three months to five years.

(3) Whoever publicly or in a meeting approves of, denies or belittles an act committed under the rule of National Socialism of the type indicated in Section 6 subsection (1) of the Code of Crimes against International Law, in a manner capable of disturbing the public peace shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than five years or a fine.

(4) Whoever publicly or in a meeting disturbes the public peace in a manner that assaults the human dignity of the victims by approving of, denying or rendering harmless the violent and arbitrary National Socialist rule shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than three years or a fine.


You can't hold this conversation in Germany. I believe some of my posts could come under "belittling" and "rendering harmless" portions of the historical truth.


Mind telling me why 'Judea declaring war' is preposterous and shouldn't be considered?? Perhaps Judea spoke out of anger and didn't mean it?




[edit on 2010/1/20 by SteveR]



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 04:46 PM
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Originally posted by Zenic

What we do know, and still have access to though, are millions of jewish skeletons.

That should be enough.


We have tens of millions of European, Soviet, and American skeletons to look at their pictures. Most believers say look at pictures. Hundreds of thousands of people died in those POW camps from famine and disease. Those are the pictures that you reference. Eyewitnesses? 99% of the survivors admit to never seeing any death chambers.

And a few of the survivors have been proven to lie on video. I attached the video in one of my replies.

Listen, just because you see pictures of dead bodies doesn't mean the rest of the story follows suit.

If you have evidence that has convinced you, share it. But things like Pictures are merely circumstantial.

Yes, Jews were ridiculed and made to do embarrassing things in public. But let us remember, they declared war on Germany first. Also, 60 years ago blacks were treated the same way in America. That doesn't mean that AMericans wanted to wipe them off the face of the Earth.




AAC



[edit on 20-1-2010 by AnAbsoluteCreation]



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 04:52 PM
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Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
[ Eyewitnesses? 99% of the survivors admit to never seeing any death chambers.


Source for that claim? Anyway, the only ones who would have seen them would have been the ones that they were used on.... so how do you expect them to tell about them?


If you have evidence that has convinced you, share it.


It has been shared, but Jew haters refuse to accept the facts! en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by dereks

Anyway, the only ones who would have seen them would have been the ones that they were used on.... so how do you expect them to tell about them?


Are you serious? Did you just say that? So your saying there is no proof? That is a convenient answer, my friend.




It has been shared, but Jew haters refuse to accept the facts!


Facts are proven and corroborated. They are not facts just because your learned them from someone. Most people used to believe the world was flat. Guess what, it turned out to be a lie.


By the way, I am no Jew hater. But I am sure this goes in one ear and out the other. Because most were indoctrinated to believe if someone questions, they must be anti-Semitic, which means they can not be trusted anyway. Convenient conditioning I might add.

AAC

[edit on 20-1-2010 by AnAbsoluteCreation]



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 05:07 PM
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Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
So your saying there is no proof?


reading comprehension is not your strong point, I see! Check the records. Oh, you refuse to believe them anyway! And you are a jew hater!
en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 05:11 PM
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Originally posted by SteveR

Mind telling me why 'Judea declaring war' is preposterous and shouldn't be considered?? Perhaps Judea spoke out of anger and didn't mean it?





I thought I elaborated pretty clearly. If you don't have the reading comprehension skills, I'm sorry.

There is something called metaphor. In 1933, Judea is a non-existent imaginary state of Jews - a reference to Roman times when the Sinai was a province called Judea.

In 1933 Judea cannot declare war on Germany because there is no Judea. Get it?

Further, a non-existent country has no guns, tanks, ships, army. So it can't really declare war.

The article was about a boycott of goods. Something that happened routinely in the 1930s. More politely it was called trade embargoes, protectionist policies, etc.

Frequently chronic Jew-haters, when not sampling fine brews in their trailer parks, skeedaddle to the local library and dig through 80 year old newspaper archives to look for propaganda pieces so they can embellish their pseudo-histories of Jews being responsible for their own persecution and mass murder.

Insecure, not too bright, impressionable people incapable of separating historical fact from some fruitcake's hate fantasies buy into this malicious garbage.

Whole threads on some discussion forums online are dedicated to this kind of gross distortion and plain ol' BS. You don't have to look too far to find them.


[edit on 20-1-2010 by mmiichael]



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 05:12 PM
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reply to post by dereks
 


Comprehension? Pot calling kettle black there. That link is to a wikipedia source. How is that proof? I have read more about WWII and Holocaust than you could imagine. I used to believe it 100%. It is because of my history background that I am now questioning the complexity of it. I believe that they were rounded up because they were enemy of state, put in labor camps, supply roads were bombed, prisoners starved and died of disease. Many of them did, hundreds of thousands. The zionists saw this opportunity to wage a propaganda war to empower the sympathy of the world so they could catapult their agenda.

And I am dating a beautiful, intelligent Jewish girl that I love. So your ignorant assertions are moot.

AAC



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