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Looking to be convinced...

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posted on Jan, 16 2010 @ 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by Subjective Truth
You want me to show you how you are filled with hate? It is clear as day when you look at yourself you see the truth inside when you put that truth inside down on paper it shows everyone else something and what I see is you are closed off to the idea of it.


I cannot tell you how unequivocally wrong you are. I am not a hateful person. I love Jews. Jews are great people. My business partner is a jew. It is not about refusing to respect them, it is about me looking of actual proof of a genocide. I am not closed minded to the truth. I used to believe 100% in the Holocaust. As I look through history, there is no proof to the historic claims. Why can you not see this thread for that only?


Why are you so closed when you have in reality 1000s of witnesses and survivors.


Have you even read my replies? On holocaust survivor websites no one actually witnessed the claims. They described POW camps. Can you at least source some of those examples for my perusal?


It is like telling the crazy person the voices do not exist to the crazy person the voices are very real indeed.


Your analogies are funny but irrelevant.


I will never change your mind


Yes you can.


and if you truly wanted to know the truth you would seek it out with the people who lived it not some ww2 patch collector.


I used to believe it wholeheartedly, it is when I sought out the history, my mind started to change. Understand? I was a history major, way back in the day. You need an open mind to step away from what you think you know.



This is why I pointed you in a direction but you choice to ignore it once again in my eyes showing hate because you do not want to find the facts you ask for.


You toss out Hate really easily. You think if someone questions the Holocaust, that means they are filled with hate? Have you been indoctrinated to believe that?


It is really kind of strange it is like a thirsty man asking for water and then refusing to drink.


I know history. If you claim I don't. Prove me wrong by sourcing it. Easy as that.

AAC




posted on Jan, 16 2010 @ 11:33 PM
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I'm actually very intrigued now. I have always taken the "history" taught to me of the Holocaust at face value but some of the information in this topic has led me to question the whole story.

Too many discrepancies and lack of evidence make me question everything at this point, not the fact that millions died but the fact at hand, the fact that perhaps genocide was not the straight forward agenda of the Nazis.

Sadly, this only adds to the list of things in history that I question and the more I found out the more I wonder, how much of out lives, how much of all that is taught to us is either exaggerated, sensationalized, or a down right lie?

It is depressing.



posted on Jan, 17 2010 @ 12:56 AM
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reply to post by gwydionblack
 



An interesting fact to look at when contemplating the holocaust is when the terms "holocaust" and "6 million Jews" were first implemented. These were terms being used by Zionist Jews as early as 1900.



www.gnosticliberationfront.com...

Early attempts to introduce Holocaustianity's kernel - a hoax of "six million" dead or dying Jews - failed, when global conditions did not include the prerequisite critical mass of corrupt world leaders. In June 1900, for example, Rabbi Stephen Wise spoke of Rabbi Stephen Wise"6,000,000 living, bleeding, suffering arguments in favour of zionism". Another botched attempt to kick-start the myth was in 1919, when few believed Martin Glynn's claims of "six million" starving Jews. In 1936, Chaim Weizmann told of "six million" Jews in Europe who were unwanted and effectively sentenced to be imprisoned.

The derivation of the "six million" is an ancient Jewish prophecy, which predicts the return of the Jews to the "Promised Land" after the loss of six million of their number. Specifically, the six stems from the sixth letter "vav" in the Hebrew alphabet or alefbet. Six is the number of man in the Jewish tradition, since vav is said to be a picture of man. Man was supposedly created on the sixth day, works for six days of the week, and the "beast" has the "number of a man" - 666. Six billion deaths would be credible only to utter nincompoops; six thousand would be too insignificant to yield appreciable income and political capital. Hence, six million was chosen as a figure that almost everyone could agree on.

The few who had been duped by the pre-WWII scams did provide some cash. However, the crooked zionist mafia were already immensely rich by the time of Glynn's assertions, through seizing control of US and European central banks and newspapers, and looting Russia in the "Bolshevik Revolution". Nowadays these crime supremos will not even get out of bed for anything less than a billion dollars, unless the project provides other non-financial benefits.



Suspicious behavior to say the least. Why try so hard and be so adamant at interjecting these exact terms into public opinion for so long? This fact is very telling. Another is the forbidding of further investigation. This is the only historic event in written history that is off limits to study. There can be only one reason for hiding this. Only evil needs darkness to protect it. Goodness and truth can stand fearless in the light. Truth stands against any and all scrutiny. There's no need to protect truth!



posted on Jan, 17 2010 @ 01:57 AM
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reply to post by gwydionblack
 


Too often we are conditioned to believe the history that has been taught. History tells us that certain Egyptian Pharaohs spent a lot of their time destroying their predecessors influence. History can easily be described as [His]story.

I am not trying to persuade people as much as I am asking people to verify what they have been conditioned to believe.

Love & Light, always.

AAC



posted on Jan, 17 2010 @ 01:59 AM
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reply to post by gwydionblack
 



Wanted to add... Not depressing. It should be exhilarating to find out that you are the decider of your truth.


AAC



posted on Jan, 17 2010 @ 02:01 AM
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Originally posted by gwydionblack
I'm actually very intrigued now. I have always taken the "history" taught to me of the Holocaust at face value but some of the information in this topic has led me to question the whole story.


I am right there with you. I mean the guy comes here asking some serious questions (very politely I might add) He gives some relevant sources as to why he is questioning the holocaust, and asks for people to prove him wrong.

So far all that has been offered him is hearsay & insults. Personally, while I can't claim that I am a fan of the Nation of Israel, I have never thought to doubt the holocaust. In my mind it was just a simple historical fact. However, if there is merit to what has been shown by the OP then all I can say is that maybe he is on to something.



posted on Jan, 17 2010 @ 02:15 AM
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reply to post by Majiq
 


All I ever ask if for people to question things that have been taught to them. Because perhaps that truth needs to be verified. Research everything!

Thanks for listening.

AAC



posted on Jan, 17 2010 @ 02:29 AM
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Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
I am still waiting to be convinced... with evidence.


No you are not. There is more than enough evidence to prove the Holocaust, but you refuse to look at it as you have already decided



posted on Jan, 17 2010 @ 02:38 AM
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reply to post by dereks
 


You would seem so much more intelligent had you said... No you're not... Here is the evidence. dereks, I challenge you to show me evidence and convince me. Do not resort to emotionally projecting your unverified truth. Please prove me wrong...

AAC



posted on Jan, 17 2010 @ 02:46 AM
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Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
I challenge you to show me evidence and convince me.


There is more than enough evidence to convince anyone but jew haters. Nothing at all will convince one of those.



posted on Jan, 17 2010 @ 02:50 AM
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reply to post by dereks
 


Dude, can you just source some of your truth? That is all I am asking.

Are you afraid to discover you have been lied to?

AAC


[edit on 17-1-2010 by AnAbsoluteCreation]



posted on Jan, 17 2010 @ 03:07 AM
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reply to post by gwydionblack
 



Wanted to add... Not depressing. It should be exhilarating to find out that you are the decider of your truth.


AAC



posted on Jan, 17 2010 @ 04:33 AM
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Originally posted by dereks

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
I challenge you to show me evidence and convince me.


There is more than enough evidence to convince anyone but jew haters. Nothing at all will convince one of those.



There cannot be any evidence to something that never happened. Of every nationality in the world Jews were the only race to increase population following WW2. There were nearly 600,000 more Jews after WW2 than before it. There are multiple texts of recorded populations during that time. Try looking at a World Almanac. Just do the math, it's totally impossible!



www.jewwatch.com...

WWII reduced the total population of all of Europe by more than 25% or 150 million, from 542 million in 1940 to 392 million in 1950. If the Jewish population in Europe alone had decreased by a similar 25%, or 2.5 million Jews, there would have been only 12.8 million Jews worldwide in 1946. If the 1946 almanac is correct, then there were 3 million more Jews than that in 1946 and even more in 1950. This would mean that the Jewish population increased at the same time that the European and Christian populations were decimated. And that suggests that the Nazis did a better job of protecting Jews than of protecting Christians, or, conversely, that it was Christians and not Jews who the Nazis persecuted. There were undoubtedly Jews who were treated unfairly during WWII, because war is that way. But if this data doesn't suggest that Nazis treated Jews much more fairly than they treated Christians and other Europeans, it definitely proves that Jews died at a much lower rate than Christians.

If fewer than 2.5 million Jews died during WWII, then they died at a rate lower than all of the rest of Europe. BUT THERE WERE 584,549 MORE Jews AFTER WWII THAN BEFORE.

Even by 1990, the population of Europe of 501 million was still 7% lower than it was in 1940. But the worldwide population of Jews in 1988 was 18.08 million, 85% higher than the 9.8 million whom the holocaust organizers claimed were alive in 1946, and 55% higher than the 11.63 million figure in the 1955 Almanac. Isn't it strange that Americans are so consumed with images of millions of Jews dying in Nazi concentration camps that they are oblivious to 216 million Christians who died? Nobody, not even Jews, disputes that less than half the population of concentration camps were Jews. Who were the other half? Christians. Even if you accepted the Holocaust story in its entirety as historical fact, this is still 25 times as many Christians as Jews who died. Many of these Christians died in the course of defending their homes and homelands, rather than in concentration camps where Jews were herded after they successfully lobbied for and got gun control laws in pre-war Germany, just as they're now doing in the US.



posted on Jan, 17 2010 @ 05:26 PM
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Anyone who is interested in further sources that cast doubt on the official version of events, I suggest a read through this document.

In particular, pages 11, 12, 27, 31 and 32.

www....(nolink)/?zmnxlkqu0zi



posted on Jan, 17 2010 @ 10:16 PM
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I don't have the time to quote verse, but look at the diaries and records of German Officers that were so frustrated that valuable and short resources were being diverted to the extermination of Jews...rail lines, ammo, troops. I live in NC, but you have as much access to actual photos of the attrocities as I do... but there are photos, records, piles of human hair stuffed into pillows, finger nails chipped off and buried into the walls of the gas chambers, eyewitness accounts by Jews, German soldiers, Allied soldiers. What proof are you looking for. Based on your standard we could dispute all of history. Heck, based on your argument, I could dispute the existance of China...heard of it, seen photos(are they real?), met some people from there(delusional or govt plants), seen maps and documents(faked)...but never been there..so does China exist?
Really man, how about my uncle who was like a grandfather to me. He wa with the 90th Recon, 12th Armoured Div. He was in advance of his division doing recon and his outfit stumbled upon a camp. He said they smelled it long before they got there. He said it smelt terrible, burnt and rotting flesh. He never forgot that smell...experienced again as a police officer at a bad auto accident. Anyway, he said his unit finally got to the "camp" and was terrified, shocked, disgusted, and then angered by what they found. At this point, he always started to choke up and tears filled his eyes. He said it was the most pitiful sight he will ever see...the living looked no better than the dead. the dead stacked like "chord firewood." He usually stopped about there...after a minute, he went on to say that once they controlled the area, they went into the neighboring village and made everyman and woman come and see what had happened, what they had allowed to happen, and then they made them bury the dead and clean up the area.
If you can not look at the footage, read the accounts by all parties involved, see the physical evidence, then friend...not believe this actually happened...then you at the very least are iggnorant in the worst sort of way.



posted on Jan, 17 2010 @ 10:27 PM
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reply to post by AlreadyGone
 


Don't you see, we did have time to research and link sources that reveal a different definition to what was original assume to be fact. Read the thread and see its progressions, don't assume your opinion is profound.

AAC



posted on Jan, 17 2010 @ 10:39 PM
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I've always held that the holocaust did happen...but the fact that people are seemingly unable to address points being brought up by those saying that the holocaust as we are told did not happen as it did...well, there IS something to this. And it SHOULD be researched and scrutinized as much as anything else, if you're going to be (excuse the phrase) so butthurt over people starting to question it, prove them wrong! It's that easy! And while you're at it, if you people are seemingly for this, you should be supporting the FACT of the native American genocide, the Armenian genocide, the rape of nanjing, Dresden, etc, etc.


Right there, history prove that it is totally willing to undermine and ignore the genocides committed across humanity...there is no reason why an event that is one of the heralds of this modern world and a sovereign Zionist state we here so often scrutinize ourselves and have utter disdain for, could not be manipulated and changed from the historical fact to push an agenda.



posted on Jan, 17 2010 @ 11:22 PM
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reply to post by AnAbsoluteCreation
 


What exactly do you believe has happened in history and what was the proof that brought you to that conclusion? Just so we have some frame of reference for the kind of proof you're asking for.



posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 12:58 AM
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Originally posted by shasta9600
reply to post by AnAbsoluteCreation
 


What exactly do you believe has happened in history and what was the proof that brought you to that conclusion? Just so we have some frame of reference for the kind of proof you're asking for.


Things I know is Jews declared war on Germany in 1933 and called on Jews all over the world to boycott everything German. Jews being enemies of the state (along with other undesirables) were placed in Ghettoes before POW Camps were ready. There was a prisoner economy that ran with actually currency printed to assist. Eyewitnesses never describe death chambers, but Prisons that were long-forgotten by supply trucks. Disease and famine killed many prisoner. Allies arrived at the camps and saved those that had not yet perished. Not one camp was empty of prisoners. Yes Jews were murdered, along with other nationalities. Bodies were operated and experimented on. Perhaps some were even used in mystic rituals.

But things like The Lavon Affiar and the Transfer Agreement, where Zionist negotiated the transfer of Jews to Palestine. Very few eyewitnesses in Nuremberg Trials and the few were admittedly tortured and forced to sign confession not even in their native language.

Zionist were the Bankers who funded both sides in the War. They had the political capital to stage and take advantage of such a moment in the name of The future State of Israel. Certain (video attached) eyewitness are caught lying on camera their accounts of Holocaust.

There is way more evidence to question the facts than there are to support it. And to make it against the law to question it in some European countries is even more suspect.

It is important to note, I am not denying the atrocities that happened to Jewish people why they were imprisoned. Some letters written from those camps had visitors saying they were treated well. Judea did declare war on Germany, what did you expect of them? We imprisoned Japanese after Pearl Harbor.

I think the facts could have been exaggerated to further the Zionist cause. But I can easily drop this theory the moment I understand evidence to the contrary.

I hope you're not offended.

AAC



posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 10:26 PM
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Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
I have endlessly searched for definitive proof concerning the Holocaust. Thus far I have came up short. Why do I not believe the official story? Because of so much obfuscation concerning the subject. I could post videos revealing eyewitnesses caught changing their stories on separate video-taped occasions, but I do not want to post examples of suspect curiosities for fear that this thread will be sidetracked by refuting such examples rather than answering the question at hand.

Why am I concerned? Well it is not because I am an anti-semitic jew hater (I am dating a lovely Jewish girl). It is actually because the state of our world is widely a result of Israeli influence and furthermore, Israel is treating their neighbors much like the Gestapo treated them during WWII.

I am curious to why it is taboo to question the Holocaust in every country, and why it is against the law to question it in some European countries.

Through my research I have come to a tentative theory, and I am genuinely asking ATS to straighten out my inquiry, if possible.

Judea Declares War on Germany



The link provided is to the Barnes Review - a notorious White Supremacist magazine specializing in Holocaust Denial, Hitler adulation, highlighting the works of KKK's David Duke, etc.

In actual fact there are warehouses full of documentation, testimonies, photographs, Nazi records verifying a thousand times over the specifics of the Holocaust.

Even now French priest going through Belarus and Ukraine is finding new mass burial sites of Jews executed by Nazis that were never been fully documented. Observed and recorded by millions of people who were right there in Eastern Europe, many still alive. But some people prefer to listen to the rantings of fruitcake Neo-Nazis.

Anyone actually interested in the subject can start here:


www.nizkor.org...


btw. I have trouble believing anything you've said. This not being able to find proof you're looking for sounds like another attempt to get another thread going to spread hate.

I much more respect people who say "I hate Jews". At least they're honest.

Say Hi to the "lovely Jewish girl"

Make sure she's not a Mossad agent.


[edit on 18-1-2010 by mmiichael]



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