It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Dreams are just dreams...Nothing else

page: 2
2
<< 1   >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 08:10 AM
link   
Here is my lucid dreaming from today. I think it has some very insightful realizations.

January 14, 2009
The baby saga enjoyably continues with ample interruptions to my dreams, but I manage to stay the course and have at least one moment of lucidity, and several semi-lucid moments.
Dream one:
I have been asked to work on a fantasy board game wiki to a game that doesn't exist in reality. The game is so well known to me, I know what each unit is in the game, how you advance them forward. How these towers work, where you over time fortify them with magic and what magic works best against certain units.

One of the main game strategies was to get to archers as a unit first, apparently they are the best early game unit before you can evolve into more exotic units like sorcerers. Having them first with the right number of defensive towers makes wining more advantageous.

I remember looking at the wiki and it had lots of graphics representing game units and elements, very organized text and descriptions. I worked on the wiki for hours searching other resources and citing from them. One source was a site that had all this information about Conan, but what made it very interesting short of seeing Arnold Schwarzenegger as Conan, was the fact three movies instead of two were present.

Even in the dream, I was happy to see how well informed the Conan wiki information was. The third movie however never clued me into the fact it didn't exist. I just enjoyed that there was a third movie, I am trying to remember if the actor looked like Arnold or not, it did stick out visually like a sore thumb to the other two movies. The Conan wiki also covered the comic book, some graphic novels. In the dream, the information was very clear text, easy to read.

On waking however, it's very hard to remember any substance from this. I need to work improving my memory period.

Dream Two:
My son daniel is walking with me in this dream. I realize I am dreaming and so I change our conversation to be about dreams. It is night time in the dream, the lighting is by moonlight and any street lamp we pass. We are walking near what might be Skaha Beach in Penticton B.C.

“You can see how dreams are real things.”, I tell Dan who seems to listen, “They appear with such vigorous detail and impress upon us an experience of reality that during the dream, we believe is real but on waking realize it was just an illusion.”

“If it's so real, how do you know if you are dreaming or not?”, he asks.

“Like any skill, you need to teach yourself to be perceptive. It's a discipline that requires your attention and study.”, I tell him.

I notice a cloud formation, the cloud has a pattern that I have seen in real life that seems to have a self-similar commonality with a theme where the cloud forms kind of a triangular face. I focus Dan's attention to the cloud, “See that cloud over there?”

He looks at it. I focus on the cloud and cause a human shape to appear in the center of it. “This is the technique I use to change a dream. See how the cloud naturally arranges itself to match the shape formed by my intent. It is this very same focus technique I have used to change a dream before it comes true.”, I tell him.

He asks me, “How do you know if it's going to come true or not?”

“I don't. It's a total crap shoot. But one thing is certain, this pattern if it does come true matches exactly in detail what happens in reality when the dream actualizes.”

At this point, his friend who I believe is Tennessee comes running over from across the street, hailing us.

He is excited to be here and to be with Dan and myself. Dan tells him that I was showing him my technique for changing a dream before it comes true. Tennessee is very excited about it. He wants to know more and thinks it's a very cool that we can change dreams before they come true.

We walk towards the beach, the cloud by now has naturally formed with the currents of wind and other natural patterns one would expect from a cloud. “I've never been able to with certainty know if a dream would come true or not. The many different layers of dreams present such a wide spectrum of probability that to pin point with any accuracy that a dream like this actualizes is really hard to predict. What I do know is, all dreams exist with the potential for reality, but only certain dreams that fit our physical reality have the potential to become actualized in physical time/space.”

I continue telling them about dreams, “Dreams are the technology by which we organize our thoughts into reality, to experience what that reality may be like. The rest it seems is up to the Universe to decide if it is worthy of being actualized into a physical reality.”

We sit on the beach and this lady is there. The dream shifts somewhat and a little cockatoo appears behind the lady. I watch as it bites her neck and she screams. I laugh and shoo the bird away. There are a few other common caged birds freely about. Budgies and other cockatoos.

I wake up again, but manage to have yet another philosophical dream argument with someone.

I am with Gwen and my mother. We are with some other people but I recognize them. There will be this man who seems a bit eccentric and a tad crazy who will also be with us. We are talking about consciousness and reality. There is one lady who is an astute materialist and skeptic who challenges anything that leaks into dream or consciousness outside of physical matter.

“Reality is not just molecules and atoms.”, I tell them. “People often think that in order for something to be real, it must be made of atoms and molecules. It must be objectively real to even have credit of being a reality. Yet, when everyone sleeps at night, they dream in such a way that they have a subjective reality in the form of a dream.”

“But those are just dreams, that's why we say they are not real.”, the one lady starts arguing.

“Right, but who are we to say that dreams of themselves are not some form of reality that lacks physical property but conveys a very tangible state of realism to the dreamer?”, I ask.

“Because they are just dreams, nobody cares about what they dream.”, she claims.

“Isn't that just a bad attitude towards dreaming? What about all the people who have dreams that come true?”, I ask her.

“Impossible, dreams do not come true.”, she argues further.

“I take it then, you have never had a dream come true. You lack that knowledge from first hand experience, it's good to be skeptical. I have had dreams come true, so I know it is real.”, I claim.

“Then you are crazy, there is no way a dream can come true. It is physically impossible to predict anything.”, she complains.

“Well, that is quite a judgment on your part. I suspect you don't believe that consciousness can exist outside the physical body too right?”, I ask.

“It's the body that produces consciousness. When we die, that's it. Consciousness is the product of the mind.”, she claims.

“Well, I'd like to argue that consciousness does exist outside the body. That it survives physical death and has existed before physical birth.”, I argue in the defense of consciousness.

“There is no proof that you survive death, and certainly no proof that you existed before you where born. Where do you get such crazy ideas from?”, she laughs.

“Well, if you want some interesting arguments, there is a youtube video on a documentary that I just watched regarding a lady who was clinically brain dead for about an hour undergoing a very long procedure. During that time when the brain had absolutely no activity, her consciousness was outside the body watching the entire procedure and remembering what the doctors were discussing when her physical ear could no longer process sound.”, I tell her.



[edit on 14-1-2010 by YouAreDreaming]




posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 08:11 AM
link   
She doesn't believe me, and I don't care. “You simply talk based on your own beliefs. It is a very limited view of what is really going on when in fact, consciousness is what created every reality you will ever exist in. That is why it survives death, it was only ever experiencing an organized thought about reality. A very convincing dream I might add.”

“Next thing you will say is ghosts are real and so is the tooth fairy.”, she laughs.

“No, what I will say is consciousness is real, and the self is far greater then any reality it finds itself in. We are simply evolving conscious beings with a very profound focus we call reality.”

“That doesn't make any sense, what does that mean?”, she asks.

“Consciousness created reality. It creates and organizes thoughts into forms that become a reality system for consciousness to play in, and learn from. You are already part of that system, you are already engaged in the creative processes called dreaming by which thought is organized into reality. Your belief system denies you access to this knowledge because you believe the result of reality and what that tells you, never seeing the subtle role your consciousness has played to make it so.”, I explain.

“There is no truth to what you are saying, I can't believe anything you talk about. You are just insane.”, she laughs.

“Well, then I guess you will never know what it is like to go out-of-body or experience other reality systems until you shed this belief that all there is, is a physical reality.”, I argue.

“That's right, all there is is reality! Not this mumbo jumbo you are talking about.”, she laughs.

“Well, I guess you settled it. There is no way another reality system can exist. There is no way consciousness could be creating this reality right now. Next thing you'll tell me is that there is no way this is a dream!”, I say tongue in cheek.

“Wow, you are really reaching for straws here. There is no way this is a dream, how could you even insinuate that?”, she looks at me totally in awe of such a claim.

“That is, because this is a dream. It has been so since we first met and started this conversation, and will be so after we, or I wake up.”, I smile.

During that time, other people were also agreeing and disagreeing but were not so in my face with the argument for me to take note.

She was writing notes for her argument, and I looked at the paper. I smiled at her and turned my focus to the excentric crazy guy who was standing behind her mostly nodding and looking with his finger to his mouth in thought.

“You make some really wild claims, I can see how she doesn't believe you.”, he talks to me.

“It's because he is crazier then you.”, she tells him.

“I am only talking from experience. We can argue an apple is an orange all day, but an apple is always an apple.”, I tell him.

He gets really wild in the eyes and really breaths in before he throws himself at you with talk. Kind of overly animated, “I've been down this road that you are on. No one will believe you, and people will think you are sick in the head.”

I look at him and raise an eyebrow, “If by sick in the head, you mean well studied in what it is to be a dreamer, and what it is to dream? I appreciate you skepticism, but don't you think that being in a dream, and arguing that it is reality is a tad bit insane?”.

They finally just look at me with some strange sense of maybe I am actually right. “You see, each of us are capable of producing these amazing dreams, and also very capable of forgetting and not realizing we are dreaming at all. We get lost in the dream, the thrill of creation. This is a dream right now, and the only thing stopping you from realizing this simple truth, is your beliefs.”

I put down the paper and show them the table, “Look at the table, and look at the natural wood grain. See how it is like a fractal, and has it's own geometric form. This table is organized thought. Let me show you what it really is.”

The mosaic patterns of the table start to flow with hypnogogic fractal geometry. I point at the sky and it starts to take on the same geometrical fractal mosaic. “Everywhere you look, while in a dream can be reduced to the matrix of thought which has formed the geometric mesh of which colors are rendered. This is all organized thought appearing as a concept of reality in the form of a dream.”

The revealing of the fractal hypnogogia in the fabric of the dream has everyone gasping, recoiling in some fear and for once, silent. I walk over to my father who was also telling and asking me not to talk about this stuff.

Each step I take, resonates on the floor in a geometric fractal response. There is no floor, only organized thought in the form of a dream. I look at him and I smile, “Just remember just because we believe it's true, doesn't mean that it is. Belief can shape our reality, but will never reveal the true meaning behind it.”

“No one want's to hear it son. People don't want to know about this stuff.”, he speaks.

“It's ok, when you understand it, there is no more fear. You realize the beliefs you had were more frightening then the truth.”

I don't get to parlay much further, and wake up. Baby was kicking me in the face lol. I decided to get this written down asap while it was still very fresh.



posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 11:15 AM
link   

Originally posted by raiden12



Actually, I said psychopathic, and I stand by that. Enlightened beings are just as dangerous as religious loons, as they're both fanatical. They both are after control, whether being aware of this or not. They both think that their interpretation of reality is absolute. Reality is not what we perceive. It exists independent of any one of us.



I do not believe in the New Age nor any religious leaders or movements, i believe in the experiences that i have and do my best to find my own answers based on personal experiences and hard work, this is the only way to come to truly logical conclusions once you have experienced things for yourself. You say they think their interpretation of reality is absolute, but reading over your comments you are doing exactly the same thing, coming to absolute conclusions based on your personal experience.


Are you doing any different? My perspective is not an absolute. That's why I'm sharing it. To listen to other sides and further gain information. Aren't you doing the same? I'm not entirely convinced that this is delusion, but based on all the data I've gathered, that's where I currently stand. My beliefs, morals, opinions, ideas, etc..change. Sometimes on a daily basis. I do the best with the experiences interpreted and data gathered.



I practiced hard, learned that the consciousness resided in another dimension, meditated to control my thoughts and emotions, practiced staying conscious every night during sleep to observe the higher dimensional bodies and how they function in the astral/mental planes, started feeling true peace which is a faculty of the consciousness and can't be felt in the subconscious states of the mind, like when your a child. Have you had these experiences? If you haven't, then how can you possibly tell me that it's not real, or a delusion? You said it yourself, reality is not what we perceive and is subjective, well i changed the way i perceived it, stopped using the mind because i could, stopped listening to thoughts and getting lost in emotions because i could, it led me to a new point of observation and a completely new way of perceiving reality, i won't say it's absolute, but it's a hell of a lot better than the way i was perceiving it.


I did say reality is not what we perceive, but never that it's subjective. This is a key delusion that's common these days, IMO. I said reality is independent of any one of us. It's both interdependent, inter-subjective, and inter-objective. Why would you think peace can't be felt by tapping into your subconscious? I think you've created a division in what is subconscious and called it something else. I've felt peace, know how to look passed other peoples opinions when they're not relevant to the situation at hand, know how to put myself in a peaceful state of mind at will. The thing is, I think it's foolish to do so on a constant basis. Every emotion is a gift. Including suffering, pain, anger, despair, etc..They all provide valuable lessons. In my mind, no one is free until we're all free. So, for me to imagine that I'm free when others are suffering is unethical.






They dedicate their lives probably because they're bored of the mundane, and get lured in by others who are already brainwashed. I don't think they're stupid, just that they lack insight. As for reaching nirvana, no thanks.



Probably? Brainwashed? Obviously this statement is not based on any personal experience or facts, if you spent any time with these people you would realize they are incredibly wise and experience an inner peace that you can't fathom as you can only experience peace as a faculty of higher states of consciousness. It's funny, you've just described what i would classify as humanity in a subconscious state, lured in by others who are already brainwashed.

Sure I've spent time with a couple of people that many others consider enlightened. One was definitely a psychopath, come to find out. The other was borderline. The psychopath found "enlightenment" --instant gratification-- through various means. He was once in prison for robbing over a dozen blockbusters and said it was a rather peaceful period in his life. He also said "zen" things like, "I find no reason to favor a flower over a piece of poo". Dude had a chunk of his brain removed as a child. I should have questioned his sanity after learning that. I choose not to judge him, even after many warning signs. He was incredibly intelligent, and I value intelligence, so I became blind to his wickedness. Not wise. It won't happen again. It wasn't until he told me one day, that he had no moral beliefs whatsoever, that I went into deep introspection for a few days alone, and came to the conclusion that he was attempting to brainwash me to gather another willing slave. No thanks! I ditched after this realization.

The other guy had experienced traumatic issues, which he never really got passed. When his dad died, he developed coping mechanisms like hallucinating angels telling him everything was okay. From this he built a foundation of faith, and pursued a quest for enlightenment. He presented himself to my group of friends when we were just teenagers. Being so young, many flocked to him in search of answers. He implied to have all the answers, but my intuitions left me quite skeptical. I found that he was very needy for attention, something an "enlightened being" shouldn't be like. He most definitely had a dark side, which wanted to control people by installing various mind programs into people. When I refused to be effected by his beliefs, he became freightened of me! He thought I was an evil entity, because I was not influenced by his "teachings". These guys use their confidence to project an aura of truth, but in reality they are VERY insecure and needy.

I do agree with your statement, humanity is utterly brainwashed on many fronts. Ya know, I mean....Ghandi was probably a pedophile, Osho was a conartist, many if not most, perhaps all of the "enlightened beings"" were quite demented. Had very large shadows, IMO.






Do you have any clue how vast the universe is? I have considered the complexity of life, time and time again. What I've concluded is that life is a subjective term. It's only narcissism, which leads us to say, this is alive, this is not alive. We relate things which are living in ways we easily understand with our feeble minds.



Exactly, life is subjective, we do relate to things in ways we easily understand with our feeble minds because from life we've believed we only had our five senses and this physical body, it's more comfortable and easier to believe this - the part your missing is that if you use the faculties of consciousness, you have a new perspective with which to view reality, something different to gauge reality with and can compare this view with the view you had using your mind, this new way opens up many more doors and you learn more about life. You can now compare reality between the use of the mind and the use of consciousness, what you find is that when you use consciousness which is a part of a being residing in a higher dimension, you can perceive more of reality - most people never get this far, as they never realize they have a choice of what to listen to!

You will never be able to understand this without personal experience of it.



Sorry, you lost me. Consciousness is what happens when we interpret data via our senses. When we lose consciousnes, we're unconscious! We're dreaming, IMO. We can be aware while being unconscious. I think this contradicts what I previously said, but it's just semantics. I mean that their is no separation between consciousness and a waking state, IMO. I don't think we've ever had a single experience outside the mind. Every concept we can define and experience, resides within and as a product of the mind, IMO.

Oh I wanted to add. I don't mean to belittle your work at all. I congratulate you on being more aware of your thoughts, feelings, and sense of self. I think it's great that you are progressing spiritually. We just have different perspectives, and that's okay. I get really turned off when people talk about higher states of being, higher dimensions, and the like. This does sound new age- like to me. It's just because I personally experienced what I now know to be psychosis, in part due to these thoughts of higher/lower concepts. I just think we're experiencing ourselves. So do you. The thing is that you are beginning to think of yourself as the collective. I don't go there. I'm an individual.

Respect.

[edit on 14-1-2010 by unityemissions]



posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 05:30 PM
link   
Dreams are the minds way of "ticking-over" while our physical body takes care of biological needs.

Daydreaming happens when we are distracted from routine tasks while awake. Maybe boredom on the brain.

It must function 24/7 or we are dead. That doesn't mean we are allowed to have control over it 24/7 though.

Memories and imagination all shook up and served with a dash of WTF!

Ain't nature amazing?



posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 08:03 PM
link   
Dreams are just dreams at the end of the day, but so much can be learned from them. There is an innocent period when first getting into spirituality, meditation and dreams where you really aren't sure what's going on and everything is a new experience. That period can really tell you things about yourself.

Eventually though, I think every experienced dreamer has to admit how easy it is to induce dreams, "Visions" and "voices in the head" etc. and begin to realize that there is nothing really magical about a human having experiences, dreaming, even astral projecting.

But there really is a lot to dreaming inherently. It really shouldn't happen that the body and mind require dreams and such experiences to keep us asleep at night and to organize the minds thoughts during the day. It really makes more sense that all of that would be done purely subconciously, and every night would just be that deep dreamless sleep of pure rest, preparing us for the next day.

But it's just not that simple, and so I continue to try to learn from my dreams.



posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 09:28 PM
link   
reply to post by nerbot
 


I realize by reading this thread, just how dream illiterate so many of you truly are.

For something that happens on a regular basis, you seem to know about diddly squat about it.

Funny how that is.



posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 01:34 AM
link   

Originally posted by nerbot
Dreams are the minds way of "ticking-over" while our physical body takes care of biological needs.
for someone who has little experience concerning the matter, that's a bold claim.


It must function 24/7 or we are dead. That doesn't mean we are allowed to have control over it 24/7 though.
um, you are capable of having control over your thoughts "24/7". I know from experience.


Memories and imagination all shook up and served with a dash of WTF!
oh, it has "WTF" too, that explains it all . . .


Ain't nature amazing?
apparently it's more amazing and intricate than you realize.

Sorry folks, but i have to agree with "YouAreDreaming". Most of you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about in concern to "dream-states" . . .

[edit on 1/15/2010 by JPhish]



posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 09:16 AM
link   

Originally posted by JPhish
for someone who has little experience concerning the matter, that's a bold claim.


I know..I've only been dreaming since the day I was born. Obviously not as long as you.


um, you are capable of having control over your thoughts "24/7". I know from experience.


Could you please explain something like "lucid dreaming" then? According to you, if we have control 24/7 then there is no such state because we are in constant control and therefore there is no "state" to enter into.


oh, it has "WTF" too, that explains it all . . .


The only thing it explains is the fact that we are amazing creatures who cannot explain everything that goes on inside us.


apparently it's more amazing and intricate than you realize.


Or is it simple and you make it complicated so you can define it and put it in a box?


Most of you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about in concern to "dream-states" . . .


Now THAT is a bold statement.

ps...I wrote this last night while I was asleep.

[edit on 15/1/2010 by nerbot]



posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 11:16 AM
link   
reply to post by nerbot
 


Didn't say we are in control 24/7, said we are capable of being in control 24/7. You would definitely be able to tell a lucid dream apart from regular dreaming. It's usually much more vivid, you can manipulate your surroundings at will, and of course are entirely aware that you are the creator; that you're dreaming.



posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 11:32 PM
link   

Originally posted by nerbot

Originally posted by JPhish
for someone who has little experience concerning the matter, that's a bold claim.


I know..I've only been dreaming since the day I was born. Obviously not as long as you.
I know people who have been listening to music since the day they were born yet they are tone def, can not sing, have no rhythm and are incapable of playing instruments.

It has nothing to do with how long you have been experiencing something; it has to do with what you have acquired from the experience. You haven’t procured as much as you could have if you believe that dreams are simply your brain “ticking down”.


Originally posted by nerbot

Originally posted by JPhish
um, you are capable of having control over your thoughts "24/7". I know from experience.


Could you please explain something like "lucid dreaming" then? According to you, if we have control 24/7 then there is no such state because we are in constant control and therefore there is no "state" to enter into.
when you are in a lucid dreaming state you can be in constant control; I don’t see where the problem is.


Originally posted by nerbot

Originally posted by JPhish
oh, it has "WTF" too, that explains it all . . .


The only thing it explains is the fact that we are amazing creatures who cannot explain everything that goes on inside us.

Of course we can’t explain everything, that’s a given. But I guarantee you, if you start to practice lucid dreaming,
attempt self hypnosis,
attempt some AP experiments and
keep a dream journal,
you will be amazed at how much you learn.


Originally posted by nerbot

Originally posted by JPhish
apparently it's more amazing and intricate than you realize.


Or is it simple and you make it complicated so you can define it and put it in a box?
Not making it more complicated at all. You’re over simplifying it. I’m not trying to put anything into a box because I don’t keep things in boxes. Might sound cliché, but I am outside the box.


Originally posted by nerbot

Originally posted by JPhish
Most of you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about in concern to "dream-states" . . .


Now THAT is a bold statement.
you apparently don’t even understand the fact that you can be in complete control in a lucid dream state . . . sorry but based on that, what I said was and is not a bold statement.


Originally posted by nerbot
ps...I wrote this last night while I was asleep.
I highly doubt that.



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 09:45 PM
link   
reply to post by Maddogkull
 


dreams are much more than just dreams... its your inner consious if that makes any sense.
and what happens when dreams actually come true?



new topics

top topics



 
2
<< 1   >>

log in

join