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Blacks forced out of Italian town

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posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 11:55 AM
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I dont think anyone would be staying in this town if they are black, and the riots have been forcing black people out of this town. I only hope that this stops because you cannot force people out like this, not by blaring on the loudspeakers.

It seems that it has become dangerous for blacks to stay in this town. We have seen in the past anti- arab and anti-black sentiments in France and now it is italy.

In a democracy you cannot function like this.


The message blaring out of the speakers on the van was stark: "Any black person who is hiding in Rosarno should get out. If we catch you, we will kill you."
Abdul Rashid Muhammad Mahmoud Iddris got out.

He's one of hundreds -- perhaps thousands -- of African migrants taken by bus out of the Italian town over the weekend after violent demonstrations shook southern Italy.


Source: www.cnn.com...




posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 12:03 PM
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That's how exactly how Democracy functions actually: largest mob rules.

Any country that would consider itself civilized cannot function that way, but we all know there is little civility left to be found in civilization.

[edit on 1/13/2010 by eNumbra]



posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 12:05 PM
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They are trying to get rid of the muslims who have had jihad feelings for Italy for centuries. I hope they succeed. Islam has vowed to destroy Rome (again) and take all of Italy for Allah. I hope the Italians can fend of the Islamic jihad currently being waged in their country.



posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 12:25 PM
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There were racial riots in the town and NY Times had an article yesterday that mafia are suspected.

www.nytimes.com...



posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 12:29 PM
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Did you read the article OP?

Just a couple snippets-




Iddris -- who is originally from Sudan and has been in Italy for about 18 months, first as an asylum seeker and then without legal documentation, and who picks oranges in season -- said police arrested another 10 to 20 people at Friday's demonstration.





The migrants who demonstrated last week "were exploited. They were just paid 20 euros (about $29) per day and they lived in slums, the same as slavery conditions. A few months ago in (the southern Italian region of) Campagna we discovered a similar situation. It's unfortunately a reality in many places, especially in southern Italy." Italy is one of the top European destinations for migrants, the migration organization's figures show. More than 3.6 million legal migrants live in the country -- 6.2 percent of the total population -- and Italy has the European Union's highest annual growth rate of migrants, along with Spain.



I wonder if this has to do with governments of the world just letting anyone and their neighbor in to the country?

Might just be me, then again, maybe not.

Why are the countries of the world doing this? Any ideas? I have one, divide and conquer. Pack enough people into a country with no enough jobs and what happens?

You do not have to be a genius to solve this problem!




posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 12:50 PM
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The thread title is misleading, these are migrant workers who are being chased out. It;s not so much their color but their illegal status and slum conditions that have the locals upset. Racism may well play a part and probably does BUT that would be an assumption. There is also no guarantee that they are all black as the Sudan does have an arab population as well.

My bad, I didn't read the OP and was going from an article I had read earlier. It seems the loudpeaker was blaring any BLACK people better get out. Mea Culpa.


[edit on 13-1-2010 by Asktheanimals]



posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 12:54 PM
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I am shocked!
I so often hear how America should be more like the 'tolerant' European countries. I have been to Italy, they are fed up with immigrants that don't speak their language and rely on government handouts.



posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 12:55 PM
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This is absolutely not so. What you describe is fascism - which Italy has certain ties to.

Democracy has room for minority rule, and minority power. This is implicit in the system.

I know that those who hate democracy love this sort of propaganda, but it is a lie. One you should be ashamed of.


Originally posted by eNumbra
That's how exactly how Democracy functions actually: largest mob rules.

Any country that would consider itself civilized cannot function that way, but we all know there is little civility left to be found in civilization.

[edit on 1/13/2010 by eNumbra]



posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 01:12 PM
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reply to post by Aeons
 


Not in the true definition of a Democracy; rule by the people. If some outlining law of the land exists that sets parameters that may not be overwritten by vote yes, but the core of Democracy is little more than rule by majority.

Democracy itself guarantees nothing for the individual or the minority even if it be a 49% minority. Fascism is defined by a singular dictator. I was not describing Fascism in the least, despite the easy parallels that could be drawn between mob rule and dictatorial rule, I believe that just makes Democracy and Fascism synonymous.



posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 01:16 PM
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Everything you just stated is incorrect. Constitutional Democracies are built on the foundation of individual citizenship rights and responsibilities.

Laws may be enacted, and they can also be taken apart by being challenged constitutionally or by coalition minorities.

Your depiction of democracy is an absolute fabrication. Shame on you.

Facism has often been done by vote. However, voted fascism is ABSOLUTELY majority rule with no room for any minority power.

Most fascist states have arisen out of a vote.

Democracy and voting are not the same thing.

Again. Shame on you.

[edit on 2010/1/13 by Aeons]



posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by Aeons
Everything you just stated is incorrect. Constitutional Democracies are built on the foundation of individual citizenship rights and responsibilities.


I bolded the qualifier for you. Constitutional Democracies are built on those things because they have Constitutions.


Laws may be enacted, and they can also be taken apart by being challenged constitutionally

Because a constitution exists


or by coalition minorities.

Which still does not guarantee anything.

Take the constitution away from a Constitutional Democracy and the only thing that protects the few from the many is the few's ability to fight back.



posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 01:23 PM
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You've got a situation here where migrants, both legal and illegal, were protesting that one of their number was shot with a compressed air gun. A couple days of demonstrations led up to this situation.

I think that it has more to do with immigration then it does with skin color.

The tensions in Europe over the immigration issues are running higher and higher. I think this is just the tip of the iceberg that is showing. In the coming years you're going to hear more and more of situations like this where the local inhabitants of cities and towns rebel against their leaders who have opened up their counties to unskilled and often uneducated immigrants who do not want to assimilate.



posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 01:23 PM
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Originally posted by mike_trivisonno
Islam has vowed to destroy Rome (again) and take all of Italy for Allah.



Actually, when the Ottomans captured Constantinople they considered their war against "Rome" complete. From that point on they genuinely considered themselves the inheritors of the Roman empire - hence their genuine hatred for the "Holy Roman Empire" (or Austrians/some germans and Hungarians in other words) whom they considered upstarts and imposters (for more on this I highly reccommend The Enemy at the Gate by Andrew Wheatcroft).

Fundamentalist Islam is a many headed Hydra, and each head is obsessed with a different enemy. Islam as a whole makes no claim on Italy, perhaps a couple of lunatic groups do, and lets face it as well as the myriad of external enemies fundamentalist groups would turn on each other in a heartbeat if these external factoes were removed.

Fundamentalist Islamic groups are made up of individuals fuelled by Anger, Hate and Fear tied together with a tragic misinterpretation of a shared religion.



posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 01:25 PM
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You have intentionally confabulated Voted Facism with Democracy. A favourite tactic of people who hate the West.

You take advantage that man people do not understand their own systems of governance, and misunderstand facism altogether. Mix it with a thorough helping of West Hate and TA DA - pure lies that sound good and get you stars here apparently.

A lie is still a lie. You do not live in Ancient Rome.

For the educational value - which I am sure is wasted because most people already know this when they spout what you are spouting, they just have an agenda. Surely there is one or two people who agreed with you who will find that actual political theory and definitions will change their mind.

www.democracyweb.org...

[edit on 2010/1/13 by Aeons]



posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by Aeons
You have intentionally confabulated Voted Facism with Democracy. A favourite tactic of people who hate the West.

You take advantage that man people do not understand their own systems of governance, and misunderstand facism altogether. Mix it with a thorough helping of West Hate and TA DA - pure lies that sound good and get you stars here apparently.

A lie is still a lie. You do not live in Ancient Rome.

Not nearly as many as Islam bashing clearly.


You keep making claims that I am the one misrepresenting Democracy but miss the clear and present fact that you are the one misinformed; or are simply misunderstanding what I am saying.

Democracy is rule by majority, as it, by definition places equal power on all people equally. Without constitutional protections (which are generally in place but not a guarantee of democracy) the minority can still be oppressed by the majority. In that sense democracy and fascism are very similar.

A constitution, or (scoff) a responsible government are what protects a minority in a democracy, without either of those mob rule ensues.

[edit on 1/13/2010 by eNumbra]



posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 01:34 PM
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That's very nice propanda there.

And what you are describing is still voted fascism.



posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 01:36 PM
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reply to post by Aeons
 


Only when facts are touted as propaganda does one truly understand what a conspiracy forum is like.


Enjoy the rest of your day.



posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 01:45 PM
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yes, I gave you actual political theory and you answered it with contrite emotionally charged phrases that seem very popular.

I wish it was only on a conspiracy forum that that was so.

The theories you put forward are the FALLACIES put forward by the founder of the US Republic. In the mean time the concepts of political discourse and types has expanded in ways they never anticipated.

Their only visions of democracy were based on the British Parliamentary system and Ancient Rome and Greece. Where the roots of such can be found.

Any modern system that has voting, and Majority tyranny with not minority power or rights is a voting fascist state. Fascist states have mostly sprung out of FAILED democracies.

And this is where your incorrect political theory comes from. 400 year old theory, and an unwillingness to comprehend that fail democracies spawn voting fascist states.

Democracy that have not failed do not fit your definition in any way.

If you want to use failed states as the defintion of what a political system is, you might as wel say that a republic is a empire because failed republics give rise to kings and emperors. So obviously I can define a functional republic as what it is when it fails.

[edit on 2010/1/13 by Aeons]



posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by Aeons

Their only visions of democracy were based on the British Parliamentary system and Ancient Rome and Greece. Where the roots of such can be found.

[edit on 2010/1/13 by Aeons]


Just my two shillings, but Greek and Roman were propped up on a huge slave underclass. Does this therefore make them fundamentally flawed and therefore in a sense only a very inhibited and flawed idea of a democracy? Both these states only payed lip service to the idea of democracy, with competing leaders manipulating an often violent voting class.

Democracy is a messy concept, where everything must be a compromise in order for it to survive. If you lose this flawed but noble ideal you inevitably slide towards tyranny.



posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 02:07 PM
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just so you dump ats members (No offence) know this thread is a bit misdealing its about
illegal migrant workers that came from countries.


Oh and also i support Italians move here are my reasons.

1.Italy has its own problems with the economy
2.theses illegal migrant indeed came in illegal also they dont have the support of chruchs if not then they really have no hope in italy at all.

3. Why bother to come in italy? if you think italy is better then the rest of other eu nations think again.




I think america would do the same if you start seeing to many people in your country taking your jobs no?


Just so you know also i lived in italy when i was young, Italians were kind and other thing,

if you speak to any Italians that you know around they will tell also about these new illegal migrants how back in the 90s there were non from middle east or africa.



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