Before I address some of the points which have been made, I believe the following verses and quotes will shed further light on this subject.
Again the words Yahweh spoke to us through the prophet Malachi:
KJV Malachi 1:1-5
1 The burden of the word of the LORD (Yahweh) to Israel by Malachi.
2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
4 Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the LORD of hosts, They shall build, but I
will throw down; and they shall call them, the border of wickedness, and, the people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever
5 And your eyes shall see, and ye shall say, The LORD will be magnified from the border of Israel.
Yahshua himself had some very interesting things to say about the descendants of Esau, who had during his time become a part of the Jewish nation:
KJV Matthew 23:27-39
27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full
of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and
wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias,
whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children
together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
KJV John 8:31-55
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man
: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
[Here these 'Jews' confess that although they are the children of Abraham, they have never been in bondage. But the Israelites were in bondage
twice, once in Egypt, the ten northern tribes in Assyria - the vast majority of whom never returned to the land of Israel, and Yudah, Levi, and
Benyamin in Babylon. These 'Jews' admit then to Yahshua that they are not descendants of Yacob, but rather, more likely, the descendants of Esau]
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the
truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
48 Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?
49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.
50 And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.
51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he
shall never taste of death.
53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his
(See also Luke 11:44-54, Matthew 3:7 , & Matthew 12:34 )
KJV Matthew 27:24-26
24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying,
I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.
25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.
26 Then released he Barabbas unto them: and when he had scourged Jesus, he delivered him to be crucified.
KJV 1 Thessalonians 2:14-16
14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own
countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men
16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the
Paul must be speaking of the non-Israelite, Edomite 'Jews' in the above passage.
Herod, King of the Jews when Yahshua was born, was an Edomite. (Idumean is Greek for Edomite.)
King of Judea 40-4 B.C.; founder of the Herodian dynasty; born about 73 B.C.; son of Antipater, and, consequently, of Idumean origin
. It is
said that when he was a boy of twelve an Essene named Menahem predicted that he would reign over Judea. Indeed, nature had endowed him with the
qualities of ascendency. He was of commanding presence; he excelled in physical exercises; he was a skilful diplomatist; and, above all, he was
prepared to commitany crime in order to gratify his unbounded ambition.
Father of Herod I.; died 43 B.C. He was the son of Antipas, a convert to Judaism, who was governor of Idumća
under the reigns of Alexander
Jannćus and his queen dowager Alexandra, and rendered himself serviceable to the Jewish rulers
Also, as I stated briefly in my first post, many of the Ashkenazi/Eastern European Jews are descended from the Khazar Turks who converted to Judaism
in the Middle Ages.
"Medieval Kingdom of Khazaria, 650-1016
Over a thousand years ago, the far east of Europe was ruled by Jewish kings who presided over numerous tribes, including their own tribe: the Turkic
Khazars. After their conversion, the Khazar people used Jewish personal names, spoke and wrote in Hebrew, were circumcised, had synagogues and rabbis,
studied the Torah and Talmud, and observed Hanukkah, Pesach, and the Sabbath. The Khazars were an advanced civilization with one of the most tolerant
societies of the medieval period. It hosted merchants from all over Asia and Europe. On these pages it is hoped that you may learn more about this
“Khazars, Central Asian History
Related Category: Central Asian History
Khazars[khA´zArz] Pronunciation Key, ancient Turkic people who appeared in Transcaucasia in the 2d cent. A.D. and subsequently settled in the lower
Volga region. They emerged as a force in the 7th cent. and rose to great power. The Khazar empire extended (8th–10th cent.) from the northern shores
of the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea to the Urals and as far westward as Kiev. Itil, the Khazar capital in the Volga delta, was a great commercial
center. The Khazars conquered the Volga Bulgars and the Crimea, levied tribute from the eastern Slavs, and warred with the Arabs, Persians, and
Armenians. Religious tolerance was complete in the Khazar empire, which reached a relatively high degree of civilization. In the 8th cent. the Khazar
nobility embraced Judaism, and Cyril and Methodius made some Christian converts among them in the 9th cent. In the 10th cent. the Khazars entered into
friendly relations with the Byzantine Empire, which attempted to use them in the struggle against the Arabs. The Khazar empire fell when Sviatoslav,
duke of Kiev, defeated its army in 965. The Khazars (or Chazars) are believed by some to have been the ancestors of many East European Jews.”
So, obvioulsy, the Khazars, who make up a large percentatge (if not most) of the Ashkenazi Jews (and may possibly be descended from Edomites
themselves) cannot possibly lay claim to a land that was never theirs in the first place.
Okay, so, I agree with Dr. Strangecraft that only three to four tribes were present in substantial numbers in the land of Israel during the post
Babylonian Exile period (although Simeon is never actually mentioned in the Biblical record during this time so I can't be certain whether they were
there or not). But what isn't often mentioned is that, almost two centuries prior to the Babylonian conquest of Judah, the Assyrian Empire
conquered not only the entire northern kingdom of Israel (2 Kings 15:19-29, 17:3-6, 18:9-11; 1 Chronicles 5;6, 26) but also overran amost all of the
southern kingdom of Judah during Hezekiah's time (2 Kings 18:13). Only Jerusalem was spared. Thus, the Assyrians would have taken captives of
tribe of Israel, not merely the ten northern tribes. After Assyria was conquered (by an alliance of Babylonians, Medes, and Scythians in
616 B.C.) many Israelites migrated northward from the Middle East and never returned to their former homes.
Now, I don't want to turn this into Lost Tribes thread necessarily, but where do you think all those pesky Germanic tribes that destroyed the Roman
Empire came from?
Also, just because someone has a Hebrew sounding last name doesn't automatically make them an Israelite. This is a conspiracy. Lies, deception,
changing of names to conceal the guilty are all involved.
[Edited on 26-5-2004 by Ischyros]