Not all atheists hate your religion

Hello all and one.

Firstly i'd like to introduce myself - i'm a logical yet open minded man. I delve into art just as much as science. I am fascinated with the cultures of the world, awed by the myriad of beliefs and styles of existence that this beautiful world has to offer. As much as the theory of evolution interests me, i am not a staunch Dawkins fan, yet i understand evolution. As much as i cannot believe that the earth was created from clay or on the 1st day of some universal nightshift or from the reeds of grass or the vocal harmony of angels - I will respect your views... Nobody knows, yet i am of the firm belief that god is non-existent. Our human experience may be nothing more than one specific unity of chaotic measurements on an infinte plane of experiences. But i do not know this...

You may call me agnostic. That i am certain i am not. Becuase Agnosticism is the realm of (and i ceratainly do not wish any offence to anyone here) uncertainty.

I am quite certain that religion as a dominant power of the control of the populous is unecessary, yet i am grateful for the unity that religion brings with it. This is not however the work of an archangel, or Allah or any number of Olympean Goddesses, this is merely collective belief in the unknown. Your beliefs are man made. This is fact.

Nothing in our human history suggests to me that we have ever experienced anything beyond something that we are incapable of understanding.

A focused blank page in the book of life can be more insightful than a billion scrawls of good intended advice with three billion pages.

Reflection in my opinion is far more important in the path of learning than any forced scripture.

This is not an insult. No member of this forum could ever honestly say that they have experienced God, because i honestly believe most people haven't experienced themselves. Me included. Those ecstatic waves of bliss and peace come from yourselves. Those heart tugging moments of anxiety and teror and loss and panic come from yourselves. Those time stopping moments with someone you love come from yourselves. You do not need an angel on your shoulder to tell you how to love, and just as importantly you do not need a devil to tell you how to hate.

I am a musician by nature, or more precisely an artist, i base my work on my thoughts and emotions. I don't think i'm capable of hating anyone yet i am guilty of feeling hatred as is everyone, in fact i despite my strong opinions on several topics, i tend to lean towards a passive gesture. I can name at least six or seven members on my foe list (on this forum) whom i have sent apologies or congratulations to for proving me wrong in an arguement. On the same scale i am guilty of ignorance aswell as teaching. I LOVE to learn something new everyday. Like the agnostic i can appreciate the unknown. Like the Buddhist i can appreciate the lessons and learning of life. Like the Catholic can see the sin in people, like the Hindus i can see the multiplication of divided energies, like the satanist i can feel the power of contained emotion, like the Jain monk i can see the power and life of not tredding on any insect in your path for the time you spend on this earth.... and so much more...

In debates, i can sometimes lean towards a fiery strongpoint, yet i have never NOT listened to another persons point of view. I am sarcastic, yet fair - sometimes trading creative gestures of whit or even downright blunt affairs of insults (but only to those who have pushed my patience beyond the realms debate and patience). I am not perfect, nor are any of you people who are reading this...

Some days i can be extremely introverted, wishing nothing more than to type away with ideas of stories and scripts and song structures........ Other days i wish nothing more than to drink, relax, smoke and be merry with my friends, family and neighbours...

Some days i care little for small talk, some times bottling up my own inner sarcasm at the silly and inane comments that the people of my country offer in their day to day dialogue and yet other days i chuckle and giggle and inwardly smile because it all makes sense. It's our way of dealing with a chaotic planet.

I sometimes wonder what the human race would be like if we could observe it from above from Venus say.... How could we possibly explain to another planet why we have (as a species) murdered billions of innocents in the pursuit of placing a flag or an oil pipe or a castle on some soil. Nor could i explain why a man with white skin would be distrusted in the middle east as much as i could explain why a dark skinned man would be considered untrustworthy with a backpack on the London underground.

Some of you will say that this is all God's will - our challenge as a species to survive to experience the nirvana beyond the suffering.

In that case, i'll quite happily pass your Nirvana , if it gives a remote village of people the chance of a few rainclouds to fill their wells or grow their crops.

But this is crap - my wishing that rainclouds will not make it so... This is my selfishness. i could do more. I could give up all my earthly posessions and sell them and donate the money to them........ But at the moment, my hectic life permits it (or does it?).

Is this the ego that philosophers debate? Am i wrong to wish to survive myself (despite being born in a luxurious western world) in my life, knowing that people are dying not even as the result of war (which is beyond words) but as a result of not even being able to f*cking eat or drink!! YET the biggest religions of our planet THOSE who preach to us.... Those high orders of status. They could cure the world.

I realise with this thread, i have steered way off course with my rants and thoughts.....

But why do you religious people believe i will end up in hell for my beliefs?

If i'm doomed to your vision of hell, then may i suggest you (those who insult atheism or indeed any other belief) get off your hypocritical arses and feed the world.

I'm drunk with life, im fearful of my mortality but only in the belief that i will not waste my life...

What are your thoughts?

Hey Lizard dude...

But why do you religious people believe i will end up in hell for my beliefs?

Why the F'k are you asking them..?




You want your beliefs validated by them..? Aint gonna happen champ...and btw - how 'bout you seek this info out without trying to be everyones friend..?

I am quite certain that religion as a dominant power of the control of the populous is unecessary,

WTF..?



[edit on 1/13/2010 by happygolucky]

i am a christian and i thought your thread was good your beliefs are your own
and i respect you for that just because they are not my views does not make you or me bad people if we all believed in the same thing and all thought the same the earth would be a very boring . i dont know if you are going to hell i would not be that presumptious and any christian that does should not a lot of us seem to forget one of the first thing jesus said judge not lest you be judged and treat your nieghbour like you would like to be treated

reply to post by happygolucky

You want your beliefs validated by them..? Aint gonna happen champ...and btw - how 'bout you seek this info out without trying to be everyones friend..?

lol, I find this kinda funny and ironic at the same time.. you say this, yet offer prozac to the OP?? Seek help yourself, friend and quit reading/responding to threads you hate with some obvious deep-seeded issue you have. *twitch*

I would just like to point out that atheists have stated their case here and now - that there is no God. OK, that is their belief.

What I can't stand is agnostics, who it seems to me are sitting on the fence and waiting for proof of some kind. Sorry, guys, the proof will come too late for you. At least get off the fence before you get saddle sores or worse.

Some people believe in God, and that is their right as well.

At least believe in something.

Originally posted by mr-lizard
Hello all and one.

Firstly i'd like to introduce myself - i'm a logical yet open minded man. I delve into art just as much as science. I am fascinated with the cultures of the world, awed by the myriad of beliefs and styles of existence that this beautiful world has to offer. As much as the theory of evolution interests me, i am not a staunch Dawkins fan, yet i understand evolution. As much as i cannot believe that the earth was created from clay or on the 1st day of some universal nightshift or from the reeds of grass or the vocal harmony of angels - I will respect your views... Nobody knows, yet i am of the firm belief that god is non-existent. Our human experience may be nothing more than one specific unity of chaotic measurements on an infinte plane of experiences. But i do not know this...

You may call me agnostic. That i am certain i am not. Becuase Agnosticism is the realm of (and i ceratainly do not wish any offence to anyone here) uncertainty.

I am quite certain that religion as a dominant power of the control of the populous is unecessary, yet i am grateful for the unity that religion brings with it. This is not however the work of an archangel, or Allah or any number of Olympean Goddesses, this is merely collective belief in the unknown. Your beliefs are man made. This is fact.

Nothing in our human history suggests to me that we have ever experienced anything beyond something that we are incapable of understanding.

A focused blank page in the book of life can be more insightful than a billion scrawls of good intended advice with three billion pages.

Reflection in my opinion is far more important in the path of learning than any forced scripture.

This is not an insult. No member of this forum could ever honestly say that they have experienced God, because i honestly believe most people haven't experienced themselves. Me included. Those ecstatic waves of bliss and peace come from yourselves. Those heart tugging moments of anxiety and teror and loss and panic come from yourselves. Those time stopping moments with someone you love come from yourselves. You do not need an angel on your shoulder to tell you how to love, and just as importantly you do not need a devil to tell you how to hate.

I am a musician by nature, or more precisely an artist, i base my work on my thoughts and emotions. I don't think i'm capable of hating anyone yet i am guilty of feeling hatred as is everyone, in fact i despite my strong opinions on several topics, i tend to lean towards a passive gesture. I can name at least six or seven members on my foe list (on this forum) whom i have sent apologies or congratulations to for proving me wrong in an arguement. On the same scale i am guilty of ignorance aswell as teaching. I LOVE to learn something new everyday. Like the agnostic i can appreciate the unknown. Like the Buddhist i can appreciate the lessons and learning of life. Like the Catholic can see the sin in people, like the Hindus i can see the multiplication of divided energies, like the satanist i can feel the power of contained emotion, like the Jain monk i can see the power and life of not tredding on any insect in your path for the time you spend on this earth.... and so much more...

In debates, i can sometimes lean towards a fiery strongpoint, yet i have never NOT listened to another persons point of view. I am sarcastic, yet fair - sometimes trading creative gestures of whit or even downright blunt affairs of insults (but only to those who have pushed my patience beyond the realms debate and patience). I am not perfect, nor are any of you people who are reading this...

Some days i can be extremely introverted, wishing nothing more than to type away with ideas of stories and scripts and song structures........ Other days i wish nothing more than to drink, relax, smoke and be merry with my friends, family and neighbours...

Some days i care little for small talk, some times bottling up my own inner sarcasm at the silly and inane comments that the people of my country offer in their day to day dialogue and yet other days i chuckle and giggle and inwardly smile because it all makes sense. It's our way of dealing with a chaotic planet.

I sometimes wonder what the human race would be like if we could observe it from above from Venus say.... How could we possibly explain to another planet why we have (as a species) murdered billions of innocents in the pursuit of placing a flag or an oil pipe or a castle on some soil. Nor could i explain why a man with white skin would be distrusted in the middle east as much as i could explain why a dark skinned man would be considered untrustworthy with a backpack on the London underground.

Some of you will say that this is all God's will - our challenge as a species to survive to experience the nirvana beyond the suffering.

In that case, i'll quite happily pass your Nirvana , if it gives a remote village of people the chance of a few rainclouds to fill their wells or grow their crops.

But this is crap - my wishing that rainclouds will not make it so... This is my selfishness. i could do more. I could give up all my earthly posessions and sell them and donate the money to them........ But at the moment, my hectic life permits it (or does it?).

Is this the ego that philosophers debate? Am i wrong to wish to survive myself (despite being born in a luxurious western world) in my life, knowing that people are dying not even as the result of war (which is beyond words) but as a result of not even being able to f*cking eat or drink!! YET the biggest religions of our planet THOSE who preach to us.... Those high orders of status. They could cure the world.

I realise with this thread, i have steered way off course with my rants and thoughts.....

But why do you religious people believe i will end up in hell for my beliefs?

If i'm doomed to your vision of hell, then may i suggest you (those who insult atheism or indeed any other belief) get off your hypocritical arses and feed the world.

I'm drunk with life, im fearful of my mortality but only in the belief that i will not waste my life...

What are your thoughts?

Not all atheists hate their own dis-believing religion either, when one reflects on it. Whenone inflects on it, one understands that by predicating a notion like religion, with a word as strong as "hate", you are manifesting the hatred you feel, by perceiving something a certain way. To you, it doesn't matter what the thing actually looks like, the only thing that matters is the beautiful perception of it.

Your name, profile pic, and post indicate that you are not turning a blind eye to the arising consciousness you are experiencing, in tandem with the natural changes the earth is undergoing at this moment in time(now). 4rth dimensional overlords = the raging ego when not checked. I know, Icke is compelling, but it just isn't happening like that.

www.crystalinks.com...

The link should help clarify whatever minsconceptions you've been holding about the 4rth dimension consciousness you are clearly wanting to leave, but also unclear of how to do it.

When you leave the 4rth dimension reptilian ego thought projection, and enter the 5th dimension, the dimension of multi-dimensional wholeness thought projection, you no longer require your ego so much, because you are understanding and accepting your role in the collective. The hive mind is activating as we speak. And the movement towards harmony can finally begin.

Hacing this innate love for all things life, demonstrates your entry into 5th dimensional awareness, but remember, the ride isn't over there either. You still have to get up, go to work, and pay the bills.

Part of the guilt cycle you are demonstrating, allows someone like me to see, that you haven't quite traded in those old skates yet, and have some "residual self imaging" to clean up still. No big deal! A little bit here, and a little bit there go a long way! Make sure to keep regular sleep hours, as rest is important during your transition period.

Abandon the guilt thing, and the fear program in general. It does you no good, and you won't miss it once it's gone. You have nothing to feel guilty about, as only those who have allowed themselves to be hurt by you, have ever been hurt by you.

This is the karmic cycle of life, that synergistically connects all things, and rules out "accidents". Nothing is accidental in our world, and I wish to expressly remind you, that while you may not have the pervading influence of the infinite oneness of all being, it does mean in the slightest that all kinds of people all around you, aren't feeling it every day. It's called love in a simple sense. In a simple sense you don't need to know about dimensional wholeness or reptilian aspects and agendas. At the the end of the day, we're already all connected, and all eternal. Death is an illusion, and if you should know someone who has passed from this realm into the next, understand this was their karma, and they either advanced to the next level of the experience, or they "re-booted" and started again absent any memory of the life they just experienced. Re-incarnation simplified. Maybe. Then again, some people think i'm kookoo for koko puffs!

Religious people believe whatever they want to believe, just like you and me, that's the beautiful part about freedom! If they don't like what you have to offer, or you don't like what they have to offer, you have the freedom to shut the door in their faces, go back to your girl friend or wife, make more love, and forget about projecting more hate, fear, anger, and guilt into the world!

Doesn't that sound like the right choice to make?

Nothing is accidental in our world, and I wish to expressly remind you, that while you may not have had the pervading influence of the infinite oneness of all being, it does NOT mean in the slightest that all kinds of people all around you, aren't feeling it every day.

*no room to edit it*sorry*

Originally posted by mr-lizard
Not all atheists hate your religion

A very nice sentiment to hear, thank you. I am a "man of faith," I suppose you could say, and It works the other way too...not all religious people are worked up about athiests/agnostics. I personally couldn't care less what other people believe or disbelieve...its simply none of my business -- just as my faith is none of theirs.

I know wonderful athiests and rotten religious folks, so I discriminate against nobody based on these categories, despite my own proclivities.

Do I think you are going to fry in hell? Again, not only is it none of my business, but it would be totally impertinent of me as a small, limited being to try to answer a question like that about divine intentions.

Ultimately, athiest or religionist, we should all be helping each other as much as possible. If you choose to do it under a secular umbrella, I have no gripes with you. Live and let live. We all get by with a little help from our friends.

Peace,

-ST

Originally posted by learningtofly
I would just like to point out that atheists have stated their case here and now - that there is no God. OK, that is their belief.

What I can't stand is agnostics, who it seems to me are sitting on the fence and waiting for proof of some kind. Sorry, guys, the proof will come too late for you. At least get off the fence before you get saddle sores or worse.

Some people believe in God, and that is their right as well.

At least believe in something.

Heh, sorry I am sure this is going to sound like I am picking on you, but I am not meaning it that way.

An "Agnostic" is literally someone who thinks one cannot know as fact if there is a god or not. ie: Someone with an open mind about it. In no way does it imply lack of belief or stagnant existence.

Personally I could be called an agnostic because I agree with Atheists in as much: There is no proof and one cannot live ones life by making decisions that could very well be made up stories. This doesn't mean I don't believe in an afterlife of some sort. It just means that I am aware belief does not = fact. By that token I tend to argue with fanatical believers as well as fanatical atheists. To live in an absolute either way tends to make the person blind.

Just my quarter penny (adjusted for inflation).

reply to post by lordtyp0


I know you are not picking on me -but I restate my case:

Agnostics are hedging their bets, waiting to see which way so-called knowledge goes.

And I did not mean to imply that agnostics have no life and no rights - of course they do.

Just that it will be a bit late to make up your mind after the fact.

Liz whats up? You seem as though you're ripped pal.
lol You been here since 2007 and you lol just got around to that long ass
intro?
Come clean you been hittin the sauce right? it's Ok if you admit it.
Bad to try and hide it.
Ya maybe you're done typing for tonight.
No mo typing fora you!
Poor guys pumbled and probably passed out right now and Happy wants to put him on meds. lmao.



[edit on 13-1-2010 by randyvs]

Originally posted by learningtofly
reply to post by lordtyp0

 

I know you are not picking on me -but I restate my case:

Agnostics are hedging their bets, waiting to see which way so-called knowledge goes.

And I did not mean to imply that agnostics have no life and no rights - of course they do.

Just that it will be a bit late to make up your mind after the fact.

Eh, I know I am not doing that. I am just living things according to my personal code of ethics and if that is not enough for some sky dweller, I would not want to know him/her/it anyway. In the meantime we each have a duty to our neighbors that transcends the sectarian mindset that seems to permeate more religions.

Otherwise it's like what Hume felt: essentially talking about God was pointless since it could not be proven either way. He did not address whether true or false, he just said "pointless'. I tend to agree

Not all atheists hate your religion

Why would Atheists hate religion?
God should be by default be a non issue.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
Not all atheists hate your religion

Why would Atheists hate religion?
God should be by default be a non issue.

Right? If you don't believe in God, why hate something that "doesn't exsist"? Meh.