Vatican says 'Avatar' is no masterpiece

Originally posted by Skyfloating
The movie first slanders the image of the conservative by portraying him as part of the "military-industrial complex", an "evil capitalist" working with a warmonger. It then goes on to take rituals reminiscent of Vooodoo, which Catholics consider demonic, an glorifies them as spiritually superior. All this is presented in a shock-and-awe way, along with some of the most beautiful and emotionally uplifting pictures ever seen.

Knowing catholics and how they think I can imagine they are just a little more than pissed

Why should something like this they see in a movie make them "pissed"? What good are they going to get out of that?

People got pissed about the Passion of the Christ, too, but movies and art in general is a free medium for anyone's artistic expression. Money and sometimes political agendas dominate the film industry for the biggest crowds, but free expression is still the rule that makes the entire industry so great, and all forms of art.

The Vatican is freely expressing itself as well, we see, only in an explicitly political way instead of even a veiled artistic expression. They are pushing an agenda that many people resist, such as myself, and doing it through these kinds of political statements irks me more than any movie ever has.

There is a difference between saying something suggestively in a movie, and standing on a platform in front of a bunch of people and saying it plainly or sending it off to a bunch of media outlets and saying it plainly as if you have some kind of authority. For most people, the Vatican does not have any authority.

Most people are not Catholic, and most people do not want to be Catholic. Similarly people who are not Christian, do not want to be Christian, or else they would be. This is a movie. Passion of the Christ is also a movie. If seeing Christianity's mythology offends you, don't want Passion of the Christ. If you think Avatar shows pagan rituals and that offends you, don't watch it. The Vatican is taking the much greater opportunity to make a bigger and more explicit sale of their own brand of religion than anything even remotely pushed in the film Avatar.

Originally posted by bsbray11

1 - I fail to make the connection between other Christians attacking the Catholic Church and the Catholic Church attacking the movie Avatar and everyone who will worship nature.



2 - And what does it tell you? It almost sounds like you are Catholic yourself. You can save it if you feel like preaching to me, I've probably already heard anything you'd consider telling me.



3 - That's what a Christian would say. I say, keep it to yourself.

We don't come to you telling you we're disgusted every time we see a reference to Christianity in public, though to be honest every time I do see a Christian relic in public it only reminds me of the darker periods of humanity and though it doesn't bother me I can't say it is pleasant, either.

4 - Freedom of religion. It means get out of my face already about it.

1 – Well, let me make that connection for you. You said ‘But it is possible to believe someone is wrong and still accept and respect their existence anyway. Why can't the Catholic Church just do that?’
I mentioned that not only does the Catholic Church do that, they do it so often that they have drawn criticism from other Christian groups.

2 – I believe that you may have inferred what I wasn’t implying. I have no interest in preaching to you. You’d be hard pressed to find me preaching to anyone on ATS at any time and I’ve been here a while. What I find telling is that you make broad and sweeping generalities.

3 – Why don’t you take a look at the source of the OP? The Vatican didn’t come to ATS and post their thoughts, a member posted it. Unless you listen to Vatican radio, it seems that you are only in danger of hearing about this second hand.

4 – No it doesn’t.


Eric

Originally posted by bsbray11
Why should something like this they see in a movie make them "pissed"? What good are they going to get out of that?

What good are the posters equating them with child-rapists getting out of their vile talk?

The agenda of the movie is divisive and dualistic. The big bad capitalist and military ("military-industrial-complex-conspiracy-theory anyone?) suppress the poor guy in the wheelchair, the indigenous tribe, a woman and mother nature - can a message be any more obviously politically slanted than that?

Dont get me wrong, I appreciate the movie on other levels. But it is divisive nonetheless.

And please dont make me defend Catholics, thats not my point. My point is - this is not the stuff world-peace-dreams are made of!.

Originally posted by impaired
movies.yahoo.com...

The Vatican newspaper and radio station are criticizing James Cameron's 3-D blockbuster for flirting with the idea that worship of nature can replace religion — a notion the pope has warned against. They call the movie a simplistic and sappy tale, despite its awe-inspiring special effects.

I'm sorry, but this is BS.

It's not that I'm taking sides with the movie. It WAS a great movie, but what they have to say about it is just BS to me.

What's wrong with "Worshiping" nature? What's the problem there? Is the Vatican getting upset because people may be opening their eyes and that might steal thunder from some religions?

I just see this as uncalled for - Avatar aside. I don't see the harm in looking up to nature - at all.

Don't mind me.

(Flame suit on)

I think it's about the fact that if you worship nature you DON'T worship their god and by extension... ya aint putting any money in their collection plates every week.

$1 300 000 000 + in global revenue in 25 days?

Of course the Pope needs to comment: for 2000 years the Catholic Church has been doing everything they can to either stamp out pagan beliefs or the people who follow them.

Why is Christmas on the Dec 25th, even when it is believed that the date is more likely after the new year (I've seen anywhere from early Jan to as late as March)?

Pagan rituals: It was easier to absorb some aspects to win over converts then try to fight them across the board.

This is the Pope's worst nightmare, a resurgance of a belief system that stresses harmony with nature, and by extension each other.

If people are buying and planting flowers then they are not donating as much money to the church. If everyone was to live responsibly and the world was at peace, then there would be nothing to ask GOD for salvation from.

Yes, there is a blatant slant, but is the movie really that far off base? Do we not mow down nature for the purpose of commerce? The media is so heavily censored that we rarely see footage of bulldozers levelling the rain forest, or the massive scars of open pit mining (both so graphically demonstrated, larger than life and in 3D).

Remember the circus over protecting the habitat of the Spotted Owl in the US? People were foaming at the mouth about not being able to clear cut the area, upset that preventing the possible extinction of a species interfered with a profittable venture.

I like having all the perks of an industrialized society, but lets face it; If everyday people knew how much devastation was required so that they could have a toothpick to use once for a couple seconds before throwing it away, they'd be uncomfortable.

Even though the movie is FICTION, it presents people with an insight into what our society does everyday.

Can't have that.

EDIT:

I think the impact this movie is having on people is best summed up by a re-work of an old poem (current and original author unknown):

I think that I might never see
A billboard as beautiful as a tree.
Lest by chance the billboard should fall;
I might never see a tree at all.

[edit on 14-1-2010 by [davinci]]

reply to post by impaired


... A Nazi who served a psycho who hated Jews, worshiped Babylonian demons, and inexplicably became the divine representative of a religion that for 2.000 years has been lying to mankind, hiding that the "God" of the Christian faith, Yaveh / Enlil, actually is a giant alien humanoid tyrant of a race that the Hebrews called Elohim and the Sumerians called Anunnaki, definitely ISN'T the best person to criticize the Cameron's movie.

reply to post by impaired


... A Nazi who served a psycho who hated Jews and worshiped Babylonian demons, but inexplicably became the divine representative of a religion that for 2.000 years has been lying to mankind, hiding that the "God" of the Christian faith, Yaveh / Enlil, actually is a giant alien humanoid tyrant of a race that the Hebrews called Elohim and the Sumerians called Anunnaki, definitely ISN'T the best person to criticize the Cameron's movie.

2nd time:
"G"Day Wise Ones,

The Vatican will quosh anything that will tell the truth about the old ways, the old true Earth bassed religion's.
It was the lust for power and control of the masses that nearly wiped out the Earth bassed religions, some did survive thou.

Just like in the Movie Avatar the rape of our planet will afect us and is doing just that now.

It has been the Vatican and Christain Dogma that has brought us humans to the brink of extinction, it has kept the human race backward from advancing our sience and knowledge for houndreds of years, we should be so much more advanced than we are today.

Blessed Be To All: Kernoonos..........

Originally posted by ucalien
reply to post by impaired

 

... A Nazi who served a psycho who hated Jews and worshiped Babylonian demons, but inexplicably became the divine representative of a religion that for 2.000 years has been lying to mankind, hiding that the "God" of the Christian faith, Yaveh / Enlil, actually is a giant alien humanoid tyrant of a race that the Hebrews called Elohim and the Sumerians called Anunnaki, definitely ISN'T the best person to criticize the Cameron's movie.

"G"Day,

Yes well put, got a hole in one mate.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by bsbray11
Why should something like this they see in a movie make them "pissed"? What good are they going to get out of that?

What good are the posters equating them with child-rapists getting out of their vile talk?

I can't speak for them, but as far as what I was asking about the Vatican/Catholics, there is no significant relation between what I was asking and your response.

The agenda of the movie is divisive and dualistic. The big bad capitalist and military ("military-industrial-complex-conspiracy-theory anyone?) suppress the poor guy in the wheelchair, the indigenous tribe, a woman and mother nature - can a message be any more obviously politically slanted than that?

It's still not a crime; it's a movie. But if I were an international body, I would consider our invasion of Iraq illegal, and that is for real and has resulted in incomprehensible losses. Anything to make our military look bad for what they are doing, I can't honestly say I am can get THAT upset about it without simultaneously getting upset about the real, innocent people our military is killing.

And please dont make me defend Catholics, thats not my point. My point is - this is not the stuff world-peace-dreams are made of!.

Well, if that's your point, then I can't say I disagree with that. My only point is that Catholics have no right getting their panties in a bunch about a movie enough so that they come out selling their own gobbledy-gook as if we're any more interested to hear them, especially when they haven't even made an entertaining movie for us.

[edit on 14-1-2010 by bsbray11]

Originally posted by EricD
1 – Well, let me make that connection for you. You said ‘But it is possible to believe someone is wrong and still accept and respect their existence anyway. Why can't the Catholic Church just do that?’
I mentioned that not only does the Catholic Church do that, they do it so often that they have drawn criticism from other Christian groups.

Well at least they've been working on it...

3 – Why don’t you take a look at the source of the OP? The Vatican didn’t come to ATS and post their thoughts, a member posted it. Unless you listen to Vatican radio, it seems that you are only in danger of hearing about this second hand.

I don't really listen to any radio or TV so it's hard for me to discriminate what the MSM is carrying and what it isn't sometimes, though I know they often bring up the Vatican and various claims it makes at different times.

Would you like to see the pope on the end of a rope, do you think he's a fool?

penned by Geezer Butler, from Black Sabbath's "After Forever"

The RCC is about money and power and always has been. This movie is a figurative slap right across the pope's face. And it's beautiful from what I hear, I really have to see this flick.

The papal bull of 1493 basically stated that the cats like Columbus could sail from Spain and claim any land inhabited with non Christian natives for the church. They could do as they pleased with the "heathens" if they failed to repent. There were other documents of this nature as well.

Ever wonder what legal arguments American jurists planned to use to justify taking land from the Indians? Yessiree, the papal bull of 1493.

from the Colorado AIM website:
*1823 - In the Johnson v. McIntosh case, U.S. Chief Justice John Marshall
blatantly inserts language of "discovery" based on the bull Inter Caetera into the decision.

The right thing to do, which will never happen, is for the RCC and all other parties involved, to rescind the papal bulls immediately and negotiate a settlement with the ancestors of those who were aggrieved. But just think of the ramifications.

The pope should have just kept quiet.

I think the Vatican is aware that Jesus was not God, nor was he the Son of God. He was an 'avatar' of sorts - an alien being that took upon the flesh of man to bring information to our planet and to learn more of our nature.

The Catholic Church is a corporation originally founded to capitalize on Jesus being the one true God. If people start correlating this movie with the life of Jesus and who or what he really was, then the church would have a lot to answer for (especially if it was revealed that they had known this all along).

I believe if the truth came out, it would certainly spell the end of Catholicism. Since that outcome is obviously unacceptable to the church's hierarchy, they've been easing the populace into the notion that extraterrestrial life does not conflict with the notion of Christianity, just in case disclosure is forced upon our world.

I am so glad that the popes feelings carries NO WEIGHT on my every day actions. also, if the pope is to be believed, God created nature, so he his just as much of a part of nature as anything else- Hence the praise of nature is just a faction of the praise of God. Im pretty sure the Vatican just makes S&%T up as they go....

Also, I personally do not like the noses of the creatures in the film. they just look really creepy to me, and all the alvas featuring avatar just piss me off, haha.

The Christian religion is losing more and more crediability everyday by saying BS like this
Its a movie not an attempt to take people away from worshipping their religion, how immature are the people in charge of this religion? this is just like not believing science in previous centuries just a modern way of doing it by slamming movies how they are against "god"

If you read the red letters of the New Testament (the words of Jesus), you will find that Jesus uses metaphors of nature to describe God, and he uses metaphors of nature and every-day housework/fieldwork to describe what our love & praise of God should be.

Too often churches forget the simplicity of the original message and they get too bogged down in the statement of their own importance.

Thanks for posting this article

reply to post by impaired


Religion has caused nothing but blood-shed. Its a control mechanism as are many other things. the created is nothin and the creator is all...give me a break. All lies, what do u expect from a prision planet. Religion is good for one thing that is guaranteed...War!

reply to post by Evasius


I hate to disagree with you, but Jesus himself could show up and tell them is was all a scam, and they would refuse to believe him, or that he was Jesus. Just look at the debate surrounding evolution and abiogenesis. Even though the evidence is right in front of them, they still cling to their rib-woman and their talking snake...

You can drag a horse across the desert, into the oasis, and shove it's head under the water... But you still can't make that SOB drink!

It can't 'replace' religion, that's ridiculous.

Many religions are based around nature in fact.

I think it's just another case of the vatican talking out of their ass

Vatican fail.

Second line for failure.