Vatican says 'Avatar' is no masterpiece

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posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 05:56 AM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash
The bizarre thing is, why would someone become a "satanist" if they had already rejected the original Bible teachings?

It seems to me that if you consider the Bible wrong, than you would by default reject Satanism as well because it is entirely dependent on the Bible to even be legitimate.


I just want to say you're way off here. There are various forms of "Satanism"; one can easily be a Satanist and have no belief in the bible.

As for the OP:
That being said, I think the position the Vatican took is certainly understandable coming from their point of view. Nature has been worshiped and revered throughout history, and it has at some points taken the place of religion. The Christian religions teach that God made everything, and as such, you are to worship and respect God first, since he is the creator of all things. Unless there is a hidden agenda here, I think they are just trying to keep people's attention on God and religion, rather than being "distracted" by outside influence.




posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 05:57 AM
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yeh imagine if all of a sudden football / soccer became a new religion , then the number of followers of that religion would outnumber catholics by many thousands , what would the catholic church do then !

They are just living in fear that the catholic religion will loose followers and thus power in the world .

They already destroyed hundreds of cultures in south america either through cold blooded murder in the name of their god , or through disease brought from europe



posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 05:59 AM
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I find large contradictions between these declarations and the official message of 01 January 2010 from Vatican:
OFFICIAL MESSAGE OF HIS HOLINESS POPE BENEDICT XVI FOR THE CELEBRATION OF THE WORLD DAY OF PEACE: 1 JANUARY 2010:
"IF YOU WANT TO CULTIVATE PEACE, PROTECT CREATION"
www.vatican.va...

[edit on 13-1-2010 by Imagir]

[edit on 13-1-2010 by Imagir]

[edit on 13-1-2010 by Imagir]



posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 06:21 AM
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Originally posted by Brad-H
the vatican is terrified of allowing other "beliefs" into an already cultural and religious world. I listened to the full report on another site, the vatican radio also mentions it fears the world is becoming a egalitarian culture. (egalitarian meaning it favors social equality)

So what?!?! there are a LOT worse things I could think of than a nation(s) striving for social equality. Jeez! anything that becomes a huge success (aka avatar) the vatican gets terrified it might start something that it cant control. does it not know that if its gonna keep belittling and dissing Avatar its just gonna make it THAT much more successful? The over all theme of Avatar to me is respect the planet. I can't think of any better message to put out there, especially in this modern world.


I guess you didn't read my post. That's fine. It wasn't that important.

However, if you had, you would realize what the vatican is really saying/doing.

Of course they're afraid of an egalitarian world.

Does it really have anything to do with Avatar? No.

Do they say the truth and mean it? No.

You're playing RIGHT INTO THEIR HANDS by having the reaction you're having. You're loving a pathetic movie more and more by being dismantled by whatever the vatican thinks. Whatever!



posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 06:23 AM
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Originally posted by Imagir
I find large contradictions between these declarations and the official message of 01 January 2010 from Vatican:
OFFICIAL MESSAGE OF HIS HOLINESS POPE BENEDICT XVI FOR THE CELEBRATION OF THE WORLD DAY OF PEACE: 1 JANUARY 2010:
"IF YOU WANT TO CULTIVATE PEACE, PROTECT CREATION"
www.vatican.va...

[edit on 13-1-2010 by Imagir]

[edit on 13-1-2010 by Imagir]

[edit on 13-1-2010 by Imagir]


There is nothing contradictory here...

I wonder just how much creation had to be destroyed in order for the movie Avatar to be possible?

Continue playing into the vatican's game. Enjoy yourself.



posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 06:25 AM
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Originally posted by sapien82
yeh imagine if all of a sudden football / soccer became a new religion , then the number of followers of that religion would outnumber catholics by many thousands , what would the catholic church do then !

They are just living in fear that the catholic religion will loose followers and thus power in the world .

They already destroyed hundreds of cultures in south america either through cold blooded murder in the name of their god , or through disease brought from europe



Soccer is a religion. It just doesn't get the same tax breaks.

The vatican has NO FEAR of losing followers. It's goal is NOT TO GENERATE MORE CHRISTIANS. It's goal is to cause dissent. Watch as they succeed!

Enjoy the game.



posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 06:29 AM
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Originally posted by trollz

Originally posted by muzzleflash
The bizarre thing is, why would someone become a "satanist" if they had already rejected the original Bible teachings?

It seems to me that if you consider the Bible wrong, than you would by default reject Satanism as well because it is entirely dependent on the Bible to even be legitimate.


I just want to say you're way off here. There are various forms of "Satanism"; one can easily be a Satanist and have no belief in the bible.

As for the OP:
That being said, I think the position the Vatican took is certainly understandable coming from their point of view. Nature has been worshiped and revered throughout history, and it has at some points taken the place of religion. The Christian religions teach that God made everything, and as such, you are to worship and respect God first, since he is the creator of all things. Unless there is a hidden agenda here, I think they are just trying to keep people's attention on God and religion, rather than being "distracted" by outside influence.


If only they were so good.

The Vatican is not here to bring peoples' attention to God -- religion, somewhat. The vatican capitalizes off of God, but gives hardly anything good in return. The vatican speaks truths in order to give the impression that they desire good. However, the vatican does not desire for good. The vatican is here for power. Earthly power is money and war. They are here to capitalize off of sin and dissent.

God, on the other hand, actually does not want us to worship nature. Rather, he would like for us to respect His creation and respect Him for having created it. He is our Father. He gave us life. He is the one to whom and by whom all worship should take place!

The movie is simply B-entertainment.

Besides, why do you think the vatican decides to pick this movie to rant about? Do you know how many thousands of other movies are completely secular, pornographic, misleading, and biased? Come now.



posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 06:35 AM
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Originally posted by troubleshooter

Originally posted by impaired...

What's wrong with "Worshiping" nature? What's the problem there? Is the Vatican getting upset because people may be opening their eyes and that might steal thunder from some religions?

I just see this as uncalled for - Avatar aside. I don't see the harm in looking up to nature - at all.

Looking up to nature is not worshipping nature.

Nothing wrong with respecting (looking up to) nature...
...but 'worship' is quite another thing.

To worship means to 'bow down to' or 'to prostrate oneself', 'do homage'...
...the Greek word means 'to kiss the hand', to kneel before'.

Worship then is to regard or treat someone or something as superior.

I don't think this is a good way to treat nature or a pope.

Most people naked and unarmed would survive for less than a day in 'nature'...
...it showed be feared and respected but never worshipped.



You hit the nail on the head, troubleshooter.



posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 06:37 AM
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reply to post by impaired
 


I completely agree with you impaired. I think the Vatican has a twisted approach to religion anyhow. They say they represent the catholic faith, but in the end, its either their way, or the highway. Often times that highway in their eyes leads to hell. It's almost safe to say that they in the Vatican are a tad extremist.

I find nature to be something to deeply respect and love. Sorry Mr. Pope if that hurts your political agenda.

[edit on 1/13/2010 by silvertip83]



posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 06:48 AM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash
I am not religious. I do not worship nature or anything.

I just "really like" the Universe.

However, the Pope actually does not know God (if there is such a thing as God).

It would be more accurate to say the Pope clearly knows Satan (if there is even such a thing as Satan).

I consider the Vatican a thinly veiled Satanic front.

The bizarre thing is, why would someone become a "satanist" if they had already rejected the original Bible teachings?

It seems to me that if you consider the Bible wrong, than you would by default reject Satanism as well because it is entirely dependent on the Bible to even be legitimate.


Satanism doesn't believe in God or Satan ironically. It's a form of atheism that's about doing whatever you want. Luciferiansism on the other hand is much different and believes that Lucifer is not the character in the bible but an esoteric force in the world.



posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 06:52 AM
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I see a lot of "knee jerk" comments posted that in my opinion are just what the Vatican intended by releasing this statement..

The Vatican itself is littered with Pagan monuments, the actual design of the courtyard has a male phallus (monolith) aligned on a sundial directly below the head of state. So its in essence the Head of states phallus. The whole city and courtyard are built upon sacred geometry.. Geometry which is reflected in all living things (ie-nature). The pope hat is a remnant of the philistine fish god Dagon, the courtyard itself is littered with pagan and Egyptian relics. The christian "Jesus fish" is a symbol for the Vesica Piscis (fish hat connection again) and is resonated deeply with John 21:11 and the 153 fish that jesus catches.. 256:153 was known as "The measure of the fish" hundreds of years earlier as mentioned in Archimedes treatise "On the measurement of the cycle". The Vesica Piscis is the backbone of the flower of life mandala which represents the proportions of everything alive and not alive. Christians would be more familiar with it through "The seed of life", "The tree of life" or "Metatrons Cube".

This is just the tip of the iceberg, every aspect of Christianity reflects a worship of nature through pagan symbols. The truth "lies only in the lies". Nobody will pull a net up with 153 fish (ie-lie) and the ridiculousness of a seemingly arbitrary number like "153" causes a knee-jerk reaction in rational minded people.. That knee-jerk reaction pushes them in the direction of Atheism and pushes the blind-believers who think he "actually caught 153 fish" into the realm of fairytale (or the god in the clouds watching over us paradigm). This is intentional people. The Vatican doesn't want you to know the truth, or the pyramidal power structure of our current civilization will crumble.. To be at one with nature is to be at one with yourself. Its hard to covet your neighbors job,wealth,wife,car,fence,grass,etc.. when you are spiritually whole.

Long story short, they hide the truth in lies. Lies that are right in front of our face that we are all familiar with.


Here's a nice youtube video showing the Vesica Piscis in action - www.youtube.com...

Here's some more info on the signifigance of the 153 fish -
www.greatdreams.com...

Heres another link showing the link between the Great pyramid, the human body and the vesica piscis. - www.people.vcu.edu...







[edit on 13-1-2010 by ReactionaryRetards]

[edit on 13-1-2010 by ReactionaryRetards]



posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 06:57 AM
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Originally posted by impaired
movies.yahoo.com...


The Vatican newspaper and radio station are criticizing James Cameron's 3-D blockbuster for flirting with the idea that worship of nature can replace religion — a notion the pope has warned against. They call the movie a simplistic and sappy tale, despite its awe-inspiring special effects.


I'm sorry, but this is BS.

It's not that I'm taking sides with the movie. It WAS a great movie, but what they have to say about it is just BS to me.

What's wrong with "Worshiping" nature? What's the problem there? Is the Vatican getting upset because people may be opening their eyes and that might steal thunder from some religions?


I would say YES without a second thought, that is exactly why not only the Vatican, but the Christians and the Muslims will do everything in their power to keep people on "the straight and righteous path" by directing the people's worship, read that power, to THEIR "out there" God, who is always MALE, that is to keep reverence of the Mother Earth completely off the table in religious discussions. I have had many discussions with Christians about this, and they all believe in the heart that there is a Trinity of three males that is their God, plain and simple. I ask, "What about the Mother, God surely has a wife?" Nope, no women in the GodHead, they tell me. I guess that means only men will be allowed into the Christian Heaven with Judgement Day comes?

That being said, I wish the reader to reflect for just a minute here...imagine how the Earth would be today if everyone on Earth, from the beginning, thought and believed that Earth was their Mother, and Goddess....do you think things would be better, worse, or the same?



posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 06:58 AM
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reply to post by impaired
 


Shouldn't the Vatican try to explain to people that nature is a creation of the All Mighty, therefore worship of His complex creations is also worship OF the All Mighty?

They've been accepting ETs recently at the Vatican and saying that ETs must exist elsewhere in the Universe because we cannot assume that His creative capacity is limited to Earth. I don't understand why they suddenly backtrack on this issue.



posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 07:04 AM
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I say 'screw what the church thinks.' It is largely the results of western emphasis on the domination of nature which has brought about such destruction and disregard for the natural world. This movie is touching a deep primitive nerve in many folks of the need to reconnect with nature. After having been a Christian for 30 years, I never once heard a sermon on the need to cherish and protect nature. SO..I say again "SCREW WHAT THE CHURCH THINKS!"


Look around at the screwed up world around you (wars, environmental ruin, materialism); This is the the fruit of over 2000 years of western religious domination!



[edit on 13-1-2010 by whatsup]



posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 07:09 AM
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Its a bit sad that a nothing comment like this from a Vatican radio station has been given a thread on ATS and used as some kind of justification for some to post nonsense about the vatican/religion in general.

Is this what ATS is for?



posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 07:17 AM
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reply to post by autowrench
 


"Mother Earth" or "Mother Nature"is a pretty common theme that everyone is familiar with.

The great strength of our current society comes from the dialectic created within the individual. On a subconscious and for some a conscious level we are aware that everything is connected and not only is everything connected but all parts of the whole contain all the information of the whole (fractal cosmology or "The holographic universe". Through this subconscious realization, on a primal level we know it is wrong to hurt or be cruel/mean to any being - human,animal or plant. Its through our conscious self, programmed from birth that we are led to believe in a material world, with distinct and separate parts. This distinction causes both parts of psyche to be at odds with each other. The subconscious and conscious battle is manifested in the 100's of psychological diseases that we see becoming more and more prevalent as we remove ourselves further away from nature and each other.

I see it most easily observable in powerful affluent people, they may run companies that poison the earth (knowingly), they may poison the public (vaccinations) sometimes with good intentions sometimes not. They make wars, rape and torture and kill. Its hard not to just hate their guts... But.. When you see some of them talk, or read there books or actually meet them, you realize they're human.. "This guy puts his pants on one leg a time too, he poops out the same hole as the rest of us peons". This realization is sometimes frustrating for me because it takes the target off the "bad guys" and puts it firmly on your own chest..

We are all to blame, because we all deep down feel the connection.




[edit on 13-1-2010 by ReactionaryRetards]



posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 07:18 AM
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I haven't seen the movie yet so I'm not sure what the vatican is talking about but I do have to say this....

Look at the Church of Climatology. Those people put "Mother Earth" above everything else. People are simply maggots who are destroying Mother Earth and deserve no consideration in the "cause".

I've seen firsthand the complete lack of compassion towards humans in this new religion. It's downright frightening and disturbing. Is this what the vatican is getting at?

I'm not a follower of organized religion but I would also be very careful about false religions, dangerous philosophies and fanatical "movements" such as the new "green" crusade.



posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 07:22 AM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating
Its aesthetically pleasing, one of the most beautiful movies Ive ever seen. But its still a tree-huggers agenda behind it.

I'd hardly call the message of the movie an "agenda".

It has a lot more to say than "stop cutting down trees" . . .

But while we're on the subject . . .

What's wrong with respecting and cherishing the flora and fauna on the very planet we live on???



posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 07:25 AM
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reply to post by kingmonkey
 


"Its a bit sad that a nothing comment like this from a Vatican radio station has been given a thread on ATS and used as some kind of justification for some to post nonsense about the vatican/religion in general."


Nothing comment? I though Avatar was on track to become one of the most viewed movies of all time.?? Also, isnt the Vatican the seat of the worlds most influential religion? Sometime nonsense needs to be injected into discussions to add fresh perspective.. Think of it like a mutation in life.. We need mutations to happen with the flora and fauna of this earth or we would never have change.. Change is the fuel to keep life adapting and surviving on this planet..

I'm happy this is on the front page.. I assume others at ATS are interested in this as well..

Peace



posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 07:30 AM
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reply to post by JPhish
 


'What's wrong with respecting and cherishing the flora and fauna on the very planet we live on??? "

Well for one, we may get a little too close to some certain flora (ie - the fuel of your bill hicks comment) and realize the pure truth..

Bam, if society realized that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. The pyramid would crumble tomorrow. The 2012 singularity would not happen and our hidden leaders wouldnt be able to reap the fruit they sowed thousands of years ago..

That spooky scary flora..





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