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Why can't the U. S. do this?

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posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 08:55 AM
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Why can't the U.S. just declare Bankruptcy? Get China off our backs, start fresh.

Financial Times Article


In Winnie-the-Pooh, there is a significant moment when the bear is asked whether he wants honey or condensed milk with his bread. He replies “both”. You can get away with this sort of thing if you are a much loved character in children’s literature. But it is more problematic when great nations start behaving in a childish fashion. When Americans are asked what they want – lower taxes, more lavish social spending or the world’s best-funded military machine – their collective answer tends to be “all of the above”. The result is that the US is piling up debt. A budget deficit of about 12 per cent of gross domestic product is understandable as a short-term reaction to a huge financial crisis. What should worry Americans is that, with entitlement spending set to surge, there is no credible plan to bring the budget deficit under control over the medium term. The US has formidable strengths that will allow its government to be profligate for far longer than other nations could get away with. But if the US keeps running huge deficits, sooner or later the country will start flirting with bankruptcy. Oddly, it might be best if the crisis came sooner rather than later. For a surprising number of countries, running out of money has been the prelude to national renewal.


After clearing up all debts, LET'S STOP SPENDING SO DARN MUCH, how about that? When are we going to stop throwing money on the fire?





[edit on 12-1-2010 by Signals]




posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 09:19 AM
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Explanation: How about the US just ask the FED for an INFINITE loan to be paid back over Oh lets say an ETERNITY! It's just FIAT Currency after all!


This infinite amount of funds can be split equally between EVERYONE on the planet giving everybody exactly an infinite amount of funds to do anything with! Nobody would be rich or poor anymore! Should make everyone EQUALLY
off!


Oh and what about the price of goods and services?

Won't there be massive inflation?


Yes there will be massive inflation but everything will still eventually cost a FINITE amount! Infinite funds has one totally covered financially in that case!

How would the Government pay this loan back? Oh just install 99.999% annual carte blanche across the board taxes on everybody!

99.999% taxes on everybody? Thats a bit harsh isn't it?

NOPE! Here is why. Without the herd you wouldn't have been, are and will be nothing! We ALL OWE "it" to the herd! So why not pay it then and MAKE THE $$$'s go around which is what the REAL Economic problem is all about currently. The $$$'s didn't evaporate. They were jealously gaurded and without that grease to lube the system further on down the line the system overheated and broke!

But if I don't have any of my own money then how will I get my daily, weekly, monthly etc. FUN FIX???


You will still have 0.001% of infinite funds left after paying your taxes and this is more money than could ever be physically printed.

Personal Disclosure: If you are going to go bankrupt then why not do it on an infinite loan from the FED! That would really copulate them up hardcore and would be appropriate revenge for all the past $cams they have pulled!


Edited for spelling and to add...

P.S. An infinite loan would allow you to pay China off EASY!


2nd edit to clarify a Number correctly [1 too many 0's] :shk: sigh!
[edit on 12-1-2010 by OmegaLogos]

[edit on 12-1-2010 by OmegaLogos]

3rd edit to change a to into a from. soz me a massive editing
freak

[edit on 12-1-2010 by OmegaLogos]



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 09:27 AM
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We do not need to declare bankruptcy.

Hitler, smartly, declared all debts absolved. We could easily do the same thing, even the debt to ourselves and there wouldn't be anyone to stop us.

If we did that, coupled with a few good will items to balance:

- Remove US military from abroad
- End the wars
- End global political tinkering
etc

I think most folks would consider it a net gain.



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 09:31 AM
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Originally posted by KrazyJethro
We do not need to declare bankruptcy.

Hitler, smartly, declared all debts absolved. We could easily do the same thing, even the debt to ourselves and there wouldn't be anyone to stop us.

If we did that, coupled with a few good will items to balance:

- Remove US military from abroad
- End the wars
- End global political tinkering
etc

I think most folks would consider it a net gain.


That's even better...thanks for posting!



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 10:07 AM
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If we did this...wouldn't it anger a lot of countries and possibly start a war? Also, I think it would cause a lot of countries to stop trading and buying from us. Plus, they would lose all of the money they put into us...wouldn't that cause a chain reaction crash?

**fixed spelling**

[edit on 12-1-2010 by MarshMallow_Snake]



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 10:25 AM
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reply to post by MarshMallow_Snake
 


Some valid points. War, no, nobody wants to start a war with us. Broke or not, our military is still THE most powerful force on Earth. Stop trading with us? I don't think so based on our history of consumption, we're good at that...and people want to sell us stuff to consume.

I think it would be a genius "reset button".



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by Signals
reply to post by MarshMallow_Snake
 


Some valid points. War, no, nobody wants to start a war with us. Broke or not, our military is still THE most powerful force on Earth. Stop trading with us? I don't think so based on our history of consumption, we're good at that...and people want to sell us stuff to consume.

I think it would be a genius "reset button".


Dude what happens if you file bankruptcy if you cant pay your mortgage?
Right the bank takes your remaing assets and tries to sell your real estate or other securities. You may try to switch to the Amero or anything else, the creditors wont just forget about your debts..



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 10:47 AM
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reply to post by Foppezao
 


Correct, in this case though, the main creditor is China. What are they going to do about it? Foreclose on the U.S.?



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 11:11 AM
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Filing for bankruptcy will make every american a slave overnight. Whatever you can scrap from jobs will go into debt payment in the form of taxes.

1. US owes China about a trillion dollars, but those are bonds, with interest payment only upon maturity. If China wants its money back today, they will have to forego the interest, which can be substantial.

2. Should China and other nations willing to forego the interests and want the money back today, US - an honourable debtor, is obligated to pay back every dime. To do would be to sell off its assets.

Fortunately, US is not a poor nation, but a resource rich country, abounding in raw materials and rich agricultural land, with oil even in Alaska. Its' greatest resource are the people- educated and intelligent whom will always rise to the occasion when called upon and galvanised into positive action for the good of all.

There is no need to sell off any assets or make any american slave. All it needs is the political and diplomatic skills to negotiate time to repay the bonds, as now isnt the best of time anyway.

The military might can be used, but make no mistake, if need be, US is no match for the world when terrifyingly combined. Nukes and terorists are enough to scare the # out of every american mother. So, dont ever, ever use the military card in a stupid attempt to default on loans. Not worth if, for that trillions of dollars, after all, is only money and can be earned. Human lives once wasted is gone forever. No man has ever came back alive from the war dead.

So, just simply do as the OP recommended, cut back on spending, rationalised social spending and use means test for social welfare, and any other better ideas that can help offset the debt figures.

In time, US will be debt free and hopefully more wise, time which many other nations are willing to give, not out of fear or profit, but out of goodwill for we, afterall, are the same race despite our differences. We share the same hopes and dreams, and bleed the same, white or black, European or Asian, Christian or Muslim, Communist or Republican, etc.



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 11:24 AM
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America signed something with te chinese not that lonf ago, basically saying something like if u renade on your debts we are legaly entiled to your land...
So maybe not a good idea.
Besides its kinda selfshish dont you think... Got the life of riley for years, over spend, then wipe.. look at soe of your African cousins, they starve and they are still paying off there debts..
Cmon grow up and take some responbility for your actions.. Besides if you done dat who would want to trade with you and lend you money. The thing is you have done it once and would do it again.. Nxt time who is going to help you up.
Jst face up to the facts that really you need to spend less money.. In a global economy you will not be able to compete with China, the balance has tipped.
As for the strongest military, remeber my friend there is more than one way tp skin a cat... Real trouble comes in ways you dont expect and a wise eagle always hides its claw.....
kinda simple really

best wishes kx



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 01:37 PM
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There will be no war, little anger on the streets, and I'd suggest that the Chinese can come and try to take our land.

Please also note, that while canceling our debt to others we should cancel their debts to the US. That would be a square deal for the most part.

As far as China is concerned, they have no real ability to wage war on us, pressure the US in any way, no authority over the US, so in other words, they have no leverage over the US in any way.

Additionally, not having to contend with the US meddling in international affairs (barring being attacked), I think most would be pretty happy.



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 01:43 PM
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The US is already in an irreversible quagmire of debt.

My opinion is that the reason why the US cannot "just" declare bankruptcy is because the US corporation is desperately trying to avoid seizure of assets, such as property and natural resources.

If the corporation known as the united states declared bankruptcy, I suspect they would essentially exist in a state of national captivity. "Citizens" would be responsible for paying off whatever was left over. I see the same situation also happening without the corporation officially declaring bankruptcy, if China were to decide to call all debts.



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 01:47 PM
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reply to post by Signals
 


It cannot, America is not longer a sovereign entity "economically" it belongs to too many private interest.

In other words globalization and free trade have the US linked to every nation that it does business with.

The countries that holds interest in the US will never allow US to declare bankruptcy.



[edit on 12-1-2010 by marg6043]



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by MKULTRA
The US is already in an irreversible quagmire of debt.

My opinion is that the reason why the US cannot "just" declare bankruptcy is because the US corporation is desperately trying to avoid seizure of assets, such as property and natural resources.

If the corporation known as the united states declared bankruptcy, I suspect they would essentially exist in a state of national captivity. "Citizens" would be responsible for paying off whatever was left over. I see the same situation also happening without the corporation officially declaring bankruptcy, if China were to decide to call all debts.


You are right. The real problem is that the private property of the citizens stand for the public debt. Government owned property is unencumbered and does not stand as collateral.



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 01:59 PM
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Originally posted by MKULTRA
The US is already in an irreversible quagmire of debt.

My opinion is that the reason why the US cannot "just" declare bankruptcy is because the US corporation is desperately trying to avoid seizure of assets, such as property and natural resources.

If the corporation known as the united states declared bankruptcy, I suspect they would essentially exist in a state of national captivity. "Citizens" would be responsible for paying off whatever was left over. I see the same situation also happening without the corporation officially declaring bankruptcy, if China were to decide to call all debts.




Originally posted by marg6043
It cannot, America is not longer a sovereign entity "economically" it belongs to too many private interest.

In other words globalization and free trade have the US linked to every nation that it does business with.

The countries that holds interest in the US will never allow US to declare bankruptcy.


How, exactly, do you think China would enforce such an endeavor?

Do you really think anyone would allow them to come and take anything?



[edit on 12-1-2010 by KrazyJethro]



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 02:04 PM
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reply to post by KrazyJethro
 


Most of what is call America "wealth" is linked oversea, the same way that US can freeze accounts oversea so the same way it can be done to the US and their oversea links, see America is ruled by private interest and most of the wealth is oversea as America investing is also oversea, China, India and any other nation can seize any of those investments in their countries.

In todays economy most of the growth in production that America claim is not here in the US is actually oversea.



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 02:11 PM
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reply to post by Signals
 


America does not manufacture anything any more (so how can you generate wealth?) and, according to figures, 60-70% of the US economy is foreign owned. Refuse to pay, we'll seize the assets. Majority of American growth is overseas.

Plus, this is not the 1600s. Declare bankruptcy and there is a significant chance you'll never see significant growth again. See Argentina. The world will never invest in American products.

When Iceland flirted on the brink of bankruptcy, the UK government seized all Icelandic assets within the United Kingdom.



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by KrazyJethro
Do you really think anyone would allow them to come and take anything?


If you cannot pay your debts, how can you possibly pay the soldiers to fight in your army and maintain the arsenal? You cannot afford it. In the event of such action, the army will be dealing with the civilian population.



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by infinite
 


Thanks infinite, you put it in better words that I did,
yes is sad that many patriots in our nation still think that America is a sovereign nation that answers only to itself . . . sadly that is not the way it works anymore, now it answers to every single nation it does business with and America business are profiting within those nations markets.



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 02:22 PM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


But let us not just discuss debt and assets. Much of key US infrastructure is foreign own too. Ports, airports, etc. American's don't own them.

Foreign Ownership of U.S. Financial Assets: Implications of a Withdrawal

What happens if foreign investment leaves.



For instance, on November 7, 2007, a report, that was later repudiated, asserted that Chinese officials were considering shifting some of China’s foreign currency reserves, reportedly worth $1.4 trillion, in dollars and in
such dollar-denominated assets as Treasury securities, out of dollar-denominated securities. Acting on the report, investors sold securities and the dollar. As a result, the broad Dow Jones industrial average plunged 360 points in one day and the dollar sank against other major currencies.


[edit on 12-1-2010 by infinite]



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