It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

A Little Bit Of Suicide

page: 2
7
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 09:05 AM
link   
reply to post by December_Rain
 


good thread my man, on a hot button issue yet respectivly done.
In the above post pertaining to your friend, you had said he has a wife and kid now for me to support some sort of suicide system if the person is a part of a family like that i would like to see the whole family grant permission. Once he has a life like that it is no longer solely his life, he shares it with his wife and daughter. As they share theirs with him, they deserve a say as well.




posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 09:08 AM
link   

Originally posted by Chett

Some real thought could go into this, maybe do it at the funeral home and save transport costs and some unfortunate person finding the body too.


OMG that is the exact thing I said after J 'died' last year... why oh why didn't he drive behind the morgue at the local hospital and take an overdose? The people who are used to seeing death would find him, pull him inside and it would have been clean and almost expected of him..... But no he chose to use a method I had explained to him would mean people would have to walk over his body parts, hunt and search for his body parts and WEIGH them peice them together so they knew when to stop looking... the smell and the trauma and everyone on the train knowing that some person has used THEM as their end to life... it just doesn't make sense!

I need to add here that over the 10 years J asked me a lot about suicide as I have sadly attended a few... I was NOT advising him of best methods but answering questions as honestly as I could.

I wish Mother had never met him



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 09:16 AM
link   

Originally posted by December_Rain
He has everything, wife, life, good job.......

That brought me to think why people like him should be made to suffer..why not let them die peacefully, humanely.


But he isn't being made to suffer... he is chosing to suffer.

Clearly to him having a wife and a good job isn't the happy life others see it to be.

HE needs to confront what he feels and why and then between him and his wife find a solution to this misery... death isn't a solution it is a removal of everything for the person. You can't cure unhappiness with death you just remove the ability to feel ANY emotion.

perhaps he would be happier living in Spain with a 20 year old pole dancer and a job collecting beer glasses?

I'm sure if he asked his wife "Would you rpefer me to die or to leave you to live another life" her reply would be leave.... go find another life and keep in touch!

Who knows perhaps she is living the life of misery too?



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 09:30 AM
link   
I see that people mention only situations where the person is sad and/or bored (i guess).
Suicide is not a "solution to a temporary problem".Problems and reasons differ,it depends on the person who wishes to commit suicide.Am i the only one who believes that each one of us is unique...?

I believe there's should be proffesional assistance for people who really want to suicide,it'd be for the best no matter how you look at it.
First of all,the suicidal one wont have to do it with a gruesome way.I find it sadistic to force a person,who suffers in his life,to also have a suffering death.I mean,come on,where's the humanity here?
Second and also very important is that,the person wont have to fall off a building or jump in front of a train/car.Doing so can put other people's lifes in danger but even if that wont happen,there are gonna be people who'll witness that gruesome death (without wanting to do so offcourse) and that could mentally hurt em (imagine if there would be kids around).

So,i support the idea but allow me to say that it should be only for adults.Let's face it,most of teenagers tend to think things like that and most of the times it's only because of puberty (being emotionally overwhelmed while they face the changes every teenager does).It's absolutely normal to feel like that more or less in those ages though don't get me wrong,offcourse there are also teenagers who have valid reasons to be suicidal.
Still though i believe they should just....wait.After all,"suicide" as an option will still be there.wont it...?


To network dude
If you're reading my post you saw that i allready dissagreed with something you said but unfortunatelly there's more.
Suicide is not always a coward's way.There are many who commited suicide and there gonna be others who will in the future.Calling them all cowards without knowing them,their reasons or the situations they were in couldn't be more wrong.Not all of them avoid to face life and its obstacles but it is like this: Sometimes you get over the obstacles with success,some other times you fall but you can get up again and there are some times when the fall was just too hard.
I think you should see this whole subject from different points of view also and not just yours.I think you haven't done that.

Also i'd like to make a small comment about you saying that suicide is selfish:
Yes,it is but that doesn't mean that it's wrong.You call it selfish (with a bad way) because it hurts the feelings of the person's family and friends.I'll ask you this,aren't they selfish for not wanting/approving that person's action?He makes a decision for his own life and the others don't approve it because they don't like it,because it hurts their feelings.I'll say,if they'd really care for that person they'd support his action because that's what he wants to do with his own life,that's what he believes it's the best for him.Please think about it.


To felonius
I haven't experienced what you did so i wont say that i know how you're feeling.I'm trying though.
No matter how you feel try to keep in your mind that that's what your brother chose,for his own life.If you had the chance,would you really like to take away his freedom and have him to act the way you wish?To dictate him?We don't force the ones we love to do anything,we support their actions if that's what would make em feel better,if they think that's the best for them.
Smile when you think about him.

My best wishes.


EDIT:To add that i do dissaprove a suicide if that person has kids.The moment someone takes a responsibility like that,suicide is not an option.No matter what,he should keep on living for his children's best interest.

[edit on 12-1-2010 by Oceanborn]



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 09:39 AM
link   
Why do you assume people are forced to kill or not kill themselves in certain ways... no one forced any of the people I know of who have commited suicide they CHOSE their methods and there are methods that are less likely to have such an impact on others.... Someone who has taken pills on their bed is easier to handle than someone who has done so in a warm bath... believe me!

The choice may not always be pre-meditated but emotions do swift and ccruel things to us at times... A lot of parents will admit that they have struck out in the heat of the moment due to some abhorent upset where as they normally wouldn't react with violence..

Sometimes your emotions can drown you and you react swiftly... it's crap but it happens.

And as for teenagers 'getting over it' no they don't always... I have known of people who have suffered since pre teens [as in my 'step father' J case] and suffered with their illness until eventually opting out.

I agree some people are just reacting to a fixable situation but others truly do suffer an incurable fatal illness ... even if the fatality is at their own hands.

there are two arguments I guess.... 1) Fatal illness 2) Reactionary



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 09:41 AM
link   

Originally posted by Oceanborn


EDIT:To add that i do dissaprove a suicide if that person has kids.The moment someone takes a responsibility like that,suicide is not an option.No matter what,he should keep on living for his children's best interest.

[edit on 12-1-2010 by Oceanborn]


So if a 30 year old mother of 2 children is told she has a progressive degenerating fatal illness which will ultimatley leave her struggling to breath, bed ridden and eventually she will drown in her own body fluid she should carry on that path because she has children..... rather than organise an assisted suicide where a point in degeneration is discussed and a fatal injection is administered giving her dignity and the family happy memories?

[edit on 12-1-2010 by yzzyUK]



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 09:47 AM
link   
reply to post by Oceanborn
 


Very well said, you said it clearly what I was trying to say.



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 10:35 AM
link   
reply to post by yzzyUK
 


She should carry on as long as she could live and take care of the children.When her body would simply "say" stop,then offcourse a peacefull death is the best option.
To make it even more clear,when it's actually needed.Until that time,it's all about the children.



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 10:39 AM
link   

Originally posted by Oceanborn
reply to post by yzzyUK
 


She should carry on as long as she could live and take care of the children.When her body would simply "say" stop,then offcourse a peacefull death is the best option.
To make it even more clear,when it's actually needed.Until that time,it's all about the children.


that is what I said...



where a point in degeneration is discussed


You originally said no though. Now you are saying of course...





suicide is not an option.No matter what,he should keep on living for his children's best interest.


[edit on 12-1-2010 by yzzyUK]



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 10:55 AM
link   
reply to post by yzzyUK
 


Yes because i wasn't talking about a situation like this.If a person can hardly live,you can't except anything more anyway.
It's the same thing for a person in coma,i can't ask him to take care of his children.

We do agree,make no mistake.I just didn't specify those situations because i didn't and still don't believe that someone would argue about it.Other than that,the case you talk about is more about euthanasia rather suicide.
They don't differ that much,it's just that,when it's about a very serious illness,some doctors (maybe not enough though) allready aprove of euthanasia.



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 12:45 PM
link   
reply to post by Oceanborn
 


I respect your opinion. I just feel very strongly that whatever issues are wheighing a person down to the point of suicide, will pass and get better in a very short period of time.

This it Tina.


She was my niece. She always seemed to be happy. unfortunately, she had some teenager issues and thought her problems were too big to handle and she took her own life. That was 5 years ago and nobody in the family is any closer to dealing with this today. It hurts to think about it, and it hurts to try to forget. Kids think they know pain, they know nothing of pain. I pray that no person has to feel this kind of pain in their lifetime.

[edit on 12-1-2010 by network dude]



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 01:03 PM
link   

Originally posted by Chett
I still fail to see what it should not be an individual choice.


Technically it is. People can and do kill themselves everyday. It is a personal choice now. However, asking that "humane ways of doing it" be provided to people by society is different. Then a personal choice is being placed out as a responsibility onto others who by their OWN personal choices do not wish to assist people in their personal choice to commit suicide.

The majority of us, in this democracy, do not agree that suicide is the appropriate response to many of the circumstances that people kill themselves to escape. Many of the people who do kill themselves are young people who simply lack the perspective and the skills to negotiate grief, or sadness, or hopelessness, and if they allowed themselves to mature, with the appropriate help, they might not choose that permanent solution to a temporary problem.

The majority of us think the problem of suicidal thoughts and behaviors is best addressed by trying to find cures, (rightly or wrongly) for the underlying feelings of hopelessness, sadness, pain, etc. So, technically you do have the personal right to kill yourself, if you so choose. Even laws put in place to make it illegal can not stop you if that is your choice. However, it is not your right to expect your society, (or even a loved one) to enable that. We all have personal choices too.



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 01:05 PM
link   
reply to post by network dude
 


My brother killed himself at 20 over something that would have passed if he had just given it time. You are right about the pain suicide causes. It was horribly painful. Hang in there.



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 03:05 PM
link   

Originally posted by network dude

She was my niece. She always seemed to be happy. unfortunately, she had some teenager issues and thought her problems were too big to handle and she took her own life.


Ahh crap... I'm SO sorry.... I feel your pain... AND your anger....



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 03:08 PM
link   
To network dude
I totally agree with what you said.
I only wanna point out that there's also the health factor that can push us to do something like that,even if it's not "life or death" serious.No matter what that is,if it can't be cured and it is affecting our life i understand if someone wants to commit suicide.
I'm not saying this to argue with you,i told ya that agree.I'm just taking this to another level instead of just talking about teenagers.
We've all been in that age and we know that even something trivial can affect a lot someone.

I'm sorry about your niece.


To Illusionsaregrander
I agree with you on some level.Especially about the choice of others not willing to assist a suicidal person.I totally agree with this.
We all know though that this problem isn't really,let's say,"examined" by society,at least not much as it should be in my opinion.It's like something that noone really wants to "put his finger on",you know what i mean?
What if proffesional assistance for that would be fine as long as there was a doctor (with the knowledge of this speciffic thing offcourse) willing to do so...?We all have our opinions,most of the times they differ,it's the same thing with doctors too.

You see,personally i think the problem is in society itself,for dissaproving so much this whole idea without considering the details.Instantly the vast majority of people think how to "save" that person and/or change his mind.They instantly ignore what he wants allthough this whole deal it's about his life.



In the other hand we have this problem with teenagers.In our days i think they get too much stressed,confused and frustrated and i think it's all a "product" of society,the side effects i should say.
Maybe it's a good idea after all to keep this thread on teenage suicides since i see most of people here are talking about it speciffically.

I actually can't think of something more to say about it,the only good and,in my opinion,easy way to narrow down those thoughts many teenagers have is their families.

Uhm,that's all.



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 03:10 PM
link   
Oceanborn you just scream oxymoron!



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 03:13 PM
link   
reply to post by yzzyUK
 


This is the second time you reply to me without making your point clear.....at all.If you wanna chat and fool around there are many chat rooms.....actually too many.
This is teh interwebs ya know...

In the other hand,if you wanna say something,spit it out.



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 03:17 PM
link   

Originally posted by Oceanborn
reply to post by yzzyUK
 


This is the second time you reply to me without making your point clear.....at all.If you wanna chat and fool around there are many chat rooms.....actually too many.
This is teh interwebs ya know...

In the other hand,if you wanna say something,spit it out.


Yeees... I know... what internet eees..... yeeees I understaaaand youuuu...

I think perhaps it isn't me 'not' making my point clear... I am saying my lovely Ocean that you are contradicting yourself ....

Don't try and patronise Yzzy.... Been there done that big boy.



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 03:19 PM
link   
reply to post by yzzyUK
 


And again you just wont point it out.Simple as that,point it out instead of acting like a smartass.



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 03:22 PM
link   

Originally posted by Oceanborn
reply to post by yzzyUK
 


And again you just wont point it out.Simple as that,point it out instead of acting like a smartass.


Oooh you got me there... I am outsmarted by you...

Conversation [for me at least] is now over...

ooohhh Ocean you play a bad ass game eh?

..



new topics

top topics



 
7
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join