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Mexico opens 2010 with one of its deadliest days

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posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 04:29 PM
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reply to post by liquidsmoke206
 


I read your words and I see you have good points. Still, Mexico, like any nation, can not just cross their arms, and if there is no good ideas to implement, then the not so good ideas are going to be carried out.

Also, I think the problem is far more complex that we realize. Once i hear this story from a guy who worked on the Mexican government (so it may or not be true, you decide):
After the earthquake of 1985, Mexico city suffered a lot of destruction, in that time the president was Miguel de La Madrid, he took the phone and called to Ronald Reagan (USA president at the time).
-Mr President, sorry, but Mexico has no way to pays its debts after this terrible earthquake, we are broke.
-Sorry Miguel, but there is no way you can suspend your pays, Mexico MUST pay.
-Well, we have this illegal source of money from drugs traffic. Would it be possible for us to pay you with drugs money?
-Sure!

After that, drug cartels grow a lot in power.

There wasn't an article about a guy stating that world economy was able to keep going thanks to drug money??

Peace




posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 08:58 PM
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reply to post by oshdra
 





I read your words and I see you have good points. Still, Mexico, like any nation, can not just cross their arms, and if there is no good ideas to implement, then the not so good ideas are going to be carried out.

Tough to cross one's arms when they're tied behind one's back. Hate to say it, but can't think of, nor have I heard, one one good idea for mexico.



There wasn't an article about a guy stating that world economy was able to keep going thanks to drug money??

well it's true that underground markets(meaning not just drugs) are important, which is exactly why you don't want too much regulation from the government. So is the drug trade good or is it bad? is there a happy medium? Solutions.....????



posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 02:02 AM
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At the end of Prohibition, some supporters openly admitted its failure. A quote from a letter, written in 1932 by wealthy industrialist John D. Rockefeller, Jr., states:

When Prohibition was introduced, I hoped that it would be widely supported by public opinion and the day would soon come when the evil effects of alcohol would be recognized. I have slowly and reluctantly come to believe that this has not been the result. Instead, drinking has generally increased; the speakeasy has replaced the saloon; a vast army of lawbreakers has appeared; many of our best citizens have openly ignored Prohibition; respect for the law has been greatly lessened; and crime has increased to a level never seen before.[21]

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 01:12 AM
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Legalization is still a hot idea:



“The solution to stop the drugs trade consist in de-criminalizing consumption based on an agreement among consumer and producing countries, as has been argued by The Economist and a growing number of jurists, professors, sociologists and scientist from many countries round the world, which so far have gone unlistened”, said one of the main Spanish language living writers.


From the article: Vargas Llosa calls for the decriminalizing of drugs consumption

Looks like a more complete idea than just the legalization for possession implemented in Mexico.



posted on Jan, 21 2010 @ 02:06 AM
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At the end of Prohibition, some supporters openly admitted its failure. A quote from a letter, written in 1932 by wealthy industrialist John D. Rockefeller, Jr., states:

When Prohibition was introduced, I hoped that it would be widely supported by public opinion and the day would soon come when the evil effects of alcohol would be recognized. I have slowly and reluctantly come to believe that this has not been the result. Instead, drinking has generally increased; the speakeasy has replaced the saloon; a vast army of lawbreakers has appeared; many of our best citizens have openly ignored Prohibition; respect for the law has been greatly lessened; and crime has increased to a level never seen before.

en.wikipedia.org



posted on Jan, 21 2010 @ 02:49 AM
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My Lord!

You people have absolutely no idea about the world out side your 9 to 5 work day in America do you?

First of all Mexico is a drug country. It's one of it's most lucrative exports next to pinatas. The reason why there is a Big drug war between the Mexican government and the Cartels is precisely because a war was waged by the Government on the Cartels.

It's the most idiotic war ever waged besides the Vietnam war or the Iraq. If drugs stopped crossing the border then both the economies of Mexico and the US would collapse, it would make the credit housing crap look like a boo-boo. So please trust me drugs will never stop crossing the border.

Second, drug use has never really been a problem in Mexico because it was primarily meant for US consumption. Only in the past 5 years has there been a huge meth pandemic in Mexico, tell me where was meth created?

I live in Mexico, I live in Rosarito one of the arias most affected by the "War" on drugs. And let me tell you I'm 1,000 times more safer than in any ghetto in the US. Criminals in Mexico are ruthless and disgusting but very professional.

About a year ago there was a 5 hour gun fight after some guys took over a hospital to kill a snitch. After 5 hours of bullets flying there was 3 deaths, one police officer, a guard and a cartel guy. How the hell are you going to call that more dangerous than Columbine? how is that more dangerous than all the killing happening in the US by people who have low self esteem?

The US has entire neighbourhoods in places like Chicago where the big bad police wont even step foot in. You have kids killing kids in school shooting every day in the US. Anyone remember 1992? when a whole city broke out in a full riot killing white people on the spot, hell it was too dangerous for the police they say.

You guys can believe what you want, but you have no idea what safe is. This whole thing is a real estate issue really. They know drugs wont go away but the US wants Mexico to look bad so Americans don't start flooding down to Mexico where rent is super cheep.

Have fun living as a slaves to pay your rent.


[edit on 21-1-2010 by Izarith]



posted on Jan, 21 2010 @ 03:01 AM
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reply to post by liquidsmoke206
 


Dude,

I like the way you talk as if you had an idea of what Mexico is all about.


It might work on a white middle class yuppie, but not on an actual Mexican who was born and raised on the land.


People don't remember that 27 years ago there was no border check points. There was just some marker with two different flags on each side. You could cross the US Mexican border and not even know it. You did not have immigrants risking their lives to cross some desert. There were no 4 hour lines to get into the US.

So what happened? Mexico took out a loan, a 1 million dollar loan from the US and from that day on the Mexican peso has been devaluing ever since. Now you have what you see. Enjoy.


As for drugs being bad well all i have to say is the only thing that stops drugs from coming into a country is Communism. I hear you guys are all ready working on a nice big Berlin wall of your own......I hope you Gringos know that it's actually to keep you in America. Enjoy that as well



posted on Jan, 21 2010 @ 03:40 AM
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Originally posted by Izarith

It's the most idiotic war ever waged besides the Vietnam war or the Iraq. If drugs stopped crossing the border then both the economies of Mexico and the US would collapse, it would make the credit housing crap look like a boo-boo. So please trust me drugs will never stop crossing the border.

[edit on 21-1-2010 by Izarith]


Every war is idiotic. Still, i heard there is a cartel that is not being touch by the mexican army, if that is true, then the war is not to stop the business, but to steal it.



posted on Jan, 21 2010 @ 03:44 AM
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I think the Drug War must continue.

Look at all the good things it has done. /s

I am so sick of the prohibition of drugs.

This madness has to stop. Stop the drug wars, decriminalize now!



posted on Jan, 21 2010 @ 04:09 AM
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there certainly seems to be a degeneracy in Mexico, first and foremost anyone involved in such murders is reponsible, no one else.

On a wider note, I hope all the sixties selfish leftist bastards are happy, they promote their selfish do you what you want agenda and promote drug use, helping to fuel these degenerates in Mexico



posted on Jan, 21 2010 @ 05:07 AM
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reply to post by oshdra
 


Well all this mess started when Mexico got it's brand new puppet government, so you might have a point.

By the way, was this untouched Cartel you hear about the CIA?



I wonder who the new puppet government's puppet masters are.



posted on Jan, 21 2010 @ 07:23 AM
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it takes generations of work to produce a single product that can be marketed in america; and because of lax intellectual laws most products can be recreated as products and sold elsewhere.in mexico this is not the case(unless you view weed as entheogen), from a foreigners perspective any good that is consumed by another country is never valued.there is no action that can be taken place to circumvent this.americas hardships are very perceivable by people of other countries but the benefits of other nations are also not overlooked by americans who enjoy entheogen commune.to enter the thread just because you live in mexico and to express as you have so immaturely shows your lack of comprehension of economics and how commerce with differing nations effects perceived views of sociology.



posted on Jan, 21 2010 @ 07:49 AM
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reply to post by Izarith
 


Dude,

I like the way you talk as if you had an idea of what anything is all about.

What exactly do I not know what I'm talking about, you seem to agree with me on several points.

However, you actually think americans are lookin to flood to mexico to avoid our rent? Come on man, you know thats ridiculous.



drug use has never really been a problem in Mexico because it was primarily meant for US consumption. Only in the past 5 years has there been a huge meth pandemic in Mexico, tell me where was meth created?

you really think drugs aren't being consumed in mexico? are you sure you live there?
Meth was created in japan.

Methamphetamine was first synthesized from ephedrine in Japan in 1893 by chemist Nagayoshi Nagai.[3] In 1919, crystallized methamphetamine was synthesized by Akira Ogata via reduction of ephedrine using red phosphorus and iodine.




About a year ago there was a 5 hour gun fight after some guys took over a hospital to kill a snitch. After 5 hours of bullets flying there was 3 deaths, one police officer, a guard and a cartel guy. How the hell are you going to call that more dangerous than Columbine? how is that more dangerous than all the killing happening in the US by people who have low self esteem?

while it's true that most of the deaths involved in the mexican drug war are cartel or police, this is not to say that dozens if not hundreds of innocent people haven't been killed. But it doesn't matter who is getting killed none of it is good for mexico. We don't have school shootings everyday in the USA, and you're accusing me of not knowing what I'm talking about?



So what happened? Mexico took out a loan, a 1 million dollar loan from the US and from that day on the Mexican peso has been devaluing ever since. Now you have what you see. Enjoy.

yeah look bro, mexico's problems go a long way back you can't possibly tell me this all stems from a measly 1 million dollar loan...I mean really???






posted on Jan, 21 2010 @ 08:51 AM
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reply to post by delta33
 


prohibition was not severe, there was no penalty for possession



posted on Jan, 21 2010 @ 08:52 AM
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also, don't wish to offend you Ausar but using ten words where one will do does not make you smart- your comments and arguments are a bit of an incoherent mess.

Like I say, no offence like



posted on Jan, 22 2010 @ 04:09 AM
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to enter the thread just because you live in mexico and to express as you have so immaturely shows your lack of comprehension of economics and how commerce with differing nations effects perceived views of sociology.


I have been crossing the border since I was 3 years old. my Dad is a white dude from South Boston and has lived in Mexico longer than most Mexicans and My whole Mother's side of the family is from the most notorious place in Mexican drug history, Culiacan Sinaloa.

So your saying that I'm immature because I actually was born and raised in Mexico, I live in one of the most affected arias of this Drug war and actually might have a better idea of the OP at hand then what people read in the papers?

From James J to El Barbon, I think I might have a slight inclination on how things work which is precisely why I am attempting to address the obvious faulty perceived view of sociology in the US toward Mexico.

But what ever, just enjoy the show and keep up with that rent.



posted on Jan, 22 2010 @ 04:59 AM
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reply to post by liquidsmoke206
 



What exactly do I not know what I'm talking about, you seem to agree with me on several points.


This....


I don't think people really realize the culture of mexico. Drugs are everywhere, there are people trying rip you off everywhere. I don't even think I can discuss many of the things I have seen there, that seemed, normal, or commonplace on ATS. Mexico is not just Cabo, PV, Acapulco, and Cancun. The non tourist spots, can get very sketchy very fast. Rural places, and cities too.


In this paragraph you have just described every major ghetto in the USA but not Mexico. Any thug from wannabe to death row in the USA would read this and shed a tear in loving memory of their home sweet home from their prison cell.

And yes Mexican culture is very backward. You will get riped off if you are stupid, it's disrespectful to ask your neighbour to turn down his blaring music at 3:00 in the morning or to not burn his trash a day before it gets picked up. Mexicans are 100 % Butt holes I agree.

Rural places, and cities in Mexico are some of the safest places in the world with the most humble giving people you will ever meet in your life. You wanna know what happens to all those Immigrants that the US tosses back into Mexico once they have turned them into petty, dirty, filthy criminals in privatized prisons? They get a job!

The ones that are still in US prisons are the ones who orchestrate abductions and kidnappings in Mexico. All these things are new no more than 6 years old. It's like toxic waist From the US that is spreading though Mexico like sludge off a snail.

But all in all Mexico is still safer than any major city in the US.

Of course if your a drug pusher that hangs around a bad crowd, that person might develop the same view you have. But what you are saying is BS, no different than if I said that you were a crack dealer because I looked at your avatar. I could say what I want about you but you would instantly know it was all BS because you know who you really are.


However, you actually think americans are lookin to flood to mexico to avoid our rent? Come on man, you know thats ridiculous.


No i never said that. If anything Americans near the border are terrified of crossing into Mexico even if it's just to buy a big Sombrero. Mexico is being but through the media bad moth machine so people keep paying that insane mortgage or rent because if Mexico was seen as safe or tolerable to live in people would be flooding down here.

But what ever, this keeps the line short so i can go to work.



you really think drugs aren't being consumed in mexico? are you sure you live there?
Meth was created in japan.


Like I said man there is a sudden huge Meth problem in Mexico but maybe your right, actually I think I live in Seattle where every one lives like Frasier Crane.


Wont you tell me what to do with those tossed salad and scrambled eggs. Do, do, do DO, do. I love that show.


Damn those Japanese!



while it's true that most of the deaths involved in the mexican drug war are cartel or police, this is not to say that dozens if not hundreds of innocent people haven't been killed. But it doesn't matter who is getting killed none of it is good for mexico. We don't have school shootings everyday in the USA, and you're accusing me of not knowing what I'm talking about?


Really long list of school deaths and other crimes

And that's just the kids, this song sheds a little light on what safety really is...

WARNNING VERY awful Youtube video with foul language, I suggest you not watch it.



I'll take my chances with the professional cartel killers, thank you very much.



yeah look bro, mexico's problems go a long way back you can't possibly tell me this all stems from a measly 1 million dollar loan...I mean really???


Well don't just say that, common teach me something. Give us the scoop Doc.

[edit on 22-1-2010 by Izarith]



posted on Jan, 22 2010 @ 02:32 PM
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reply to post by Izarith
 





In this paragraph you have just described every major ghetto in the USA but not Mexico. Any thug from wannabe to death row in the USA would read this and shed a tear in loving memory of their home sweet home from their prison cell.

yeah it could be applied anywhere were there's poverty and lack of opportunity. mexico or USA. This thread is about the crime wave in mexico though.



And yes Mexican culture is very backward. You will get riped off if you are stupid, it's disrespectful to ask your neighbour to turn down his blaring music at 3:00 in the morning or to not burn his trash a day before it gets picked up. Mexicans are 100 % Butt holes I agree.

Oh so now you agree with me after you JUST SAID i didn't know what I was talking about. Can you see why no one in this thread takes you seriously despite you living right in the thick of the subject matter at hand? And I never called them butt holes, for the record.



Rural places, and cities in Mexico are some of the safest places in the world with the most humble giving people you will ever meet in your life. You wanna know what happens to all those Immigrants that the US tosses back into Mexico once they have turned them into petty, dirty, filthy criminals in privatized prisons? They get a job!

The ones that are still in US prisons are the ones who orchestrate abductions and kidnappings in Mexico. All these things are new no more than 6 years old. It's like toxic waist From the US that is spreading though Mexico like sludge off a snail.

Yeah mexico is full of great people, and some of those people happen to be involved in the drug trade, some of them are also not great people. But you have this idea that everything must somehow be americas fault....it's either the crime in mexico is to keep gringos from moving in, or it all stems from a million dollar loan the US gave mexico, or maybe it's those evil US prisons breeding all this....I mean, which is it? It couldn't have anything to do with mexico's history or culture could it now...oh no, just the big evil USA as usual....Look, mexico has had drugs run into and out of it for much longer then six years, mexico's government and state agencies have been corrupted for a long long time. Things have escalated in the past 6 years, but trust me, that has nothing to do with tryin to keep the gringos out. It's more because of the mexican governments more aggressive attitude towards cartels in recent history.



But all in all Mexico is still safer than any major city in the US.

Puh lease.....your misconceptions about the USA are epic.



Of course if your a drug pusher that hangs around a bad crowd, that person might develop the same view you have.


I was hanging around normal people, that's how I know it's just a way of life for many. I've seen and heard a lot of crazy things in mexico.



No i never said that. If anything Americans near the border are terrified of crossing into Mexico even if it's just to buy a big Sombrero. Mexico is being but through the media bad moth machine so people keep paying that insane mortgage or rent because if Mexico was seen as safe or tolerable to live in people would be flooding down here.

actually you did say that. You're saying that if crime wasn't so bad, or portrayed as be being bad by the media, that americans would flood into mexico to save money on housing. how do you figure? This goes back to what I was saying about you having some misconceptions about the USA, and it would seem you have many about mexico too.




Like I said man there is a sudden huge Meth problem in Mexico but maybe your right, actually I think I live in Seattle where every one lives like Frasier Crane.

yeah thats what it's like here in seattle....a fictional TV show. yer misconceptions are beyond epic. We're no stranger to meth in washington state. Was there a meth episode of frasier?



I'll take my chances with the professional cartel killers, thank you very much.

thats up to you, but you've showed me a list of 27 violent school deaths in 2005. There are thousands of cartel related deaths in mexico every year.
here check this out...www.newsweek.com...




Well don't just say that, common teach me something. Give us the scoop Doc.

if you'd pay attention you'd see I've been schoolin you this whole time. I can teach, can you learn?
Take a look at mexican history, it's full of characters, but only a handful of them ever had mexicos best interests in mind. Corruption has been commonplace for hundreds of years and has seeped into everything. You live in mexico, can you honestly say you've never bribed anyone down there?


-Liquid



posted on Jan, 22 2010 @ 03:18 PM
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Izarith, liquidsmoke206:

As recently stated by an Argentinian diplomat: there are stupid people in every country.
I do not particularly think that Mexican problems are due just to Mexico, after reading so many threads in ATS and in other sites, i can not but agree that the same people that is corrupting USA is the very same people that keep the chaos in Mexico. They keep people in third world countries with no choice but to emigrate to USA and Europe so there is social tension useful for their purposes. I am sure there must be a thread about that somewhere by here...

One can be tempted to say that Mexican people is one way or that Americans are another one and so the first do not live as good as the second but that is to simplify too much the problems.

The ongoing war on drugs in Mexico is not but a symptom of something far more bigger. USA manifest different symptoms because is a different country, but i would say they have the very same problem that Mexico.



posted on Jan, 22 2010 @ 03:22 PM
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There are a few facts that most of you may not be aware of:

Meth became a problem after the DEA cracked down on outdoor
marijuana growing in the rural south. The growers turned to
meth because it could be made out of common hardware
store chemicals. They had turned to growing marijuana because it
was no longer profitable to sell moonshine. Inflation had cut alcohol
taxes to the point there was no advantage to evading the tax.

What does this have to do with Mexico? Meth manufacture moved to
mexico when the ingredients became difficult to get in the USA. A
crackdown here simply pushed the problem somewhere else.

The economic law of supply and demand shows that it is impossible to
eradicate drugs using police power. The greater the scarcity produced
by a crackdown, the greater the incentive to take the risk.

The problem is that almost no one is aware of what the true drug crime is.

The True Drug Crime is Profiting Off Human Weakness

It doesn't matter if it is the local drug lord, DEA, FBI, British Royal Family(selling
opium in 19th century China), or your local 7 11 profiting off the 4 main American
addictions, you are committing a crime if you profit from human weakness.

I feel that I need to explain this a little. By profit, I mean economic profit. If you
took economics in school, you should understand this. If not it simply means that
if you make a business of selling drugs, anything more than what you could make
over putting the money in a CD is profiteering.
You will see that applied to the full extent, government taxation beyond the social
cost of use would be government profiteering and a crime. For the user(self medicator)
not covering the social cost in his purchase would be profiteering at the expense of
society.
Therefore taxation on cigarettes, beer etc, should cover the public social cost, but not more.
Taxes on Coca leaves would be minimal, but on Crack much higher.

Ironically, setting the tax rate too high increases the social cost by creating a black market
and a police incentive to profit by creating jobs and confiscating property, making them
cirminals.

So, if its addicting, its a crime to profit off of it whether you are the
user, seller, regulator, social worker, or in anyway taking advantage of the
opportunity the addiction creates.



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