The difference between the Christian God/religion and others

reply to post by resonance


Resonance, I applaud your effort as I am a Christian too and currently attending a seminary, BUT you have to realize as I have by now that NO ONE on ATS will listen to REASON. They would much rather listen to Unleashed68 spout off complete and utter non-sense and talk about how his posts really spoke to them. This site has an errrry cult feel to it. I think we should spread the truth as I have tried to do, but I don't think you will get much of a hearing in this setting, although I keep trying too....

reply to post by IndivisibleYearofChrist


well i was going to explain the trinity if someone questioned it..i have just been on other topics..plus i just kinda get to typing off the top of my head as i think about it and forget to add points i meant to and stuff....and i made a typo in that post about the paths haha which i just fixed...

Originally posted by trueperspective
reply to post by resonance

 

Resonance, I applaud your effort as I am a Christian too and currently attending a seminary, BUT you have to realize as I have by now that NO ONE on ATS will listen to REASON. They would much rather listen to Unleashed68 spout off complete and utter non-sense and talk about how his posts really spoke to them. This site has an errrry cult feel to it. I think we should spread the truth as I have tried to do, but I don't think you will get much of a hearing in this setting, although I keep trying too....

Im sorry but this frustrates me. The Bible is full of holes and cannot be taken as complete truth yet you still say people here won't listen to reason, don't be a hypocrite.

reply to post by SAB17

If the bible teaches the salvation of mankind, then how can you say in the OP that it is not a code of ethics?

it does not tell us to save ourselves..it tells us to accept that god came down and died to save us because we couldnt..that is in no way a code of ethics..

You say that christianity's god gives us a choice of what to do, and depending on what you choose you go to heaven or hell. can you explain to me as how you see this different than the day of reckoning that islamic people believe in, where you either are chosen to go o heaven or hell by allah, depending on how you lived your life? Maybe i am just misunderstanding the OP

yes..god gives US the choice..while there is a judgment at the end there are two types..the bema seat judgment, which is an award ceremony where we are awarded crowns for things done on earth..the other is the great white throne judgment when sheol is emptied into the lake of fire..

this is is no way like islam..in christianity you cannot lose your salvation..in islam you can be a good muslim your whole life but at the end of the day if allah decides he doesnt want to let you in to paradise he doesnt have to..

reply to post by trueperspective


Thats a little rediculous. Everything is subjective. Your "reason" is the bible and faith, just as my "reason" is science, facts, and empirical evidence. One is not better than the other, and one is not more correct than the other. It only matters what you think, and you cannot force your "reason" onto anyone else. Have a debate on it and why you disagree? Great! But it becomes a problem when you try to force it on others. They should have the right to think what they want. If you want to spread your "truth" go get a truck and start door to door bible sales. I think you will find quite a few people dont believe your "truth".

reply to post by moocowman


lol..there is absolutely no proof for this claim..

line 2

Originally posted by WeShallBeFree

Originally posted by trueperspective
reply to post by resonance

 

Resonance, I applaud your effort as I am a Christian too and currently attending a seminary, BUT you have to realize as I have by now that NO ONE on ATS will listen to REASON. They would much rather listen to Unleashed68 spout off complete and utter non-sense and talk about how his posts really spoke to them. This site has an errrry cult feel to it. I think we should spread the truth as I have tried to do, but I don't think you will get much of a hearing in this setting, although I keep trying too....

Im sorry but this frustrates me. The Bible is full of holes and cannot be taken as complete truth yet you still say people here won't listen to reason, don't be a hypocrite.

Ahh, I would love the chance to defend the charge of hypocricy. Please I beg that you explain to me how I am a hypocrite. To what "full of holes" and "not complete truths" are you talking about. Specifics please so I may answer your charge.

What happens to the babies who die without being baptized, do they go to hell? According to the Bible that's what happens. Also, why are the Jewish the (who wrote the book) chosen people and the rest of us are not, unless we join them?

I have been a long time reader, but I signed up because this thread really got to me. Seriously? Is the OP serious? I have two degrees in history, an undergraduate and graduate degree. A serious scholar would NEVER take the Bible as a source of fact. Much of the Bible can NOT EVER be proved. It can not even be proved that Jesus Christ existed. I have no problem with one having faith, but to claim it is fact does nothing but show ignorance. While claiming to be informed about matters, the OP comes off as the opposite. I have read, reread and studied both the Bible and the Koran....I bring this up because while you claim to have this incredible knowledge of what it is to be Christian you know nothing of the Koran. While I was studying Christianity I made it a point to read the Koran in order to further my knowledge of Christianity. When a Christian claims to know the "truth" but knows absolutley NOTHING about any other faiths I have a hard time taking him or her seriously. I strongly suggest you start using your brain and think on your own, and rely less on what an ancient work of fiction tells you.

There are two people. One is born into a Christian houshold in the most Christian nation in the world. The second is born into the most Muslim household in the most Muslim nation in the world. It looks to me like one has a great advantage over the other as to entering your "heaven." How is your God fair?

Originally posted by SAB17
reply to post by trueperspective

 

Thats a little rediculous. Everything is subjective. Your "reason" is the bible and faith, just as my "reason" is science, facts, and empirical evidence. One is not better than the other, and one is not more correct than the other. It only matters what you think, and you cannot force your "reason" onto anyone else. Have a debate on it and why you disagree? Great! But it becomes a problem when you try to force it on others. They should have the right to think what they want. If you want to spread your "truth" go get a truck and start door to door bible sales. I think you will find quite a few people dont believe your "truth".

People don't like to be proselytized, and yet it happens 8 hours a day 5 days a week at your local public schools. Yeah, that "science" you beleive in... Who taught you that??

[edit on 12-1-2010 by trueperspective]

You lost me at 'historical account not a group of fables.'
Umm, hate to break it to you pal, but its more full of fables the Aesop.

the Bible at least as we know it, is a grouping of like minded tales intended to assure the continued presence of the Christian Church, it has very little to do with believers.

Every thousand pages or so, something important like the Sermon on the Mount, or the Golden Rule got left in there.

It was written by humans, for humans....

reply to post by aMason


Couldnt have said it better myself. I wouldnt have to point out inconsistencies if die hard christians would take the time to actually read other religious texts thoroughly and not just bits and pieces, they would see how rediculous their argument is. You claim to know the "truth" and that you know other religions, but it just makes you sound stupid since you obviously would see the similarities between at LEAST christianity and islam if you did

reply to post by SAB17


sure maybe they could read and take bits and pieces..but the fact is the whole account is harmonious even pieces that were written close to the same times..

all through history jesus was accepted as a being a real person...in modern days we forget that people back then had the information available to test these things yet they were accepted..

now about jesus being mentioned in history...the gospels are the eye witness accounts..that is why they are in the bible..but i understand this is unacceptable..

here is part 1 of 4 parts showing all non biblical sources that mention jesus' existence

www.youtube.com...

I just wanted to chime in here with some biblical contradictions. I apologize if these have already been posted. It's from www.evilbible.com... and there are hundreds of them. This is just one section:

Theological doctrines:

1. God is satisfied with his works
Gen 1:31
God is dissatisfied with his works.
Gen 6:6
2. God dwells in chosen temples
2 Chron 7:12,16
God dwells not in temples
Acts 7:48
3. God dwells in light
Tim 6:16
God dwells in darkness
1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2
4. God is seen and heard
Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/
Ex 24:9-11
God is invisible and cannot be heard
John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16
5. God is tired and rests
Ex 31:17
God is never tired and never rests
Is 40:28
6. God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things
Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21
God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all
things
Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8
7. God knows the hearts of men
Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3
God tries men to find out what is in their heart
Deut 13:3/ Deut 8:2/ Gen 22:12
8. God is all powerful
Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26
God is not all powerful
Judg 1:19
9. God is unchangeable
James 1:17/ Mal 3:6/ Ezek 24:14/ Num 23:19
God is changeable
Gen 6:6/ Jonah 3:10/ 1 Sam 2:30,31/ 2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6/
Ex 33:1,3,17,14
10. God is just and impartial
Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25
God is unjust and partial
Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12
11. God is the author of evil
Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25
God is not the author of evil
1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13
12. God gives freely to those who ask
James 1:5/ Luke 11:10
God withholds his blessings and prevents men from receiving
them
John 12:40/ Josh 11:20/ Is 63:17
13. God is to be found by those who seek him
Matt 7:8/ Prov 8:17
God is not to be found by those who seek him
Prov 1:28
14. God is warlike
Ex 15:3/ Is 51:15
God is peaceful
Rom 15:33/ 1 Cor 14:33
15. God is cruel, unmerciful, destructive, and ferocious
Jer 13:14/ Deut 7:16/ 1 Sam 15:2,3/ 1 Sam 6:19
God is kind, merciful, and good
James 5:11/ Lam 3:33/ 1 Chron 16:34/ Ezek 18:32/ Ps 145:9/
1 Tim 2:4/ 1 John 4:16/ Ps 25:8
16. God's anger is fierce and endures long
Num 32:13/ Num 25:4/ Jer 17:4
God's anger is slow and endures but for a minute
Ps 103:8/ Ps 30:5
17. God commands, approves of, and delights in burnt offerings,
sacrifices ,and holy days
Ex 29:36/ Lev 23:27/ Ex 29:18/ Lev 1:9
God disapproves of and has no pleasure in burnt offerings,
sacrifices, and holy days.
Jer 7:22/ Jer 6:20/ Ps 50:13,4/ Is 1:13,11,12
18. God accepts human sacrifices
2 Sam 21:8,9,14/ Gen 22:2/ Judg 11:30-32,34,38,39
God forbids human sacrifice
Deut 12:30,31
19. God tempts men
Gen 22:1/ 2 Sam 24:1/ Jer 20:7/ Matt 6:13
God tempts no man
James 1:13
20. God cannot lie
Heb 6:18
God lies by proxy; he sends forth lying spirits t deceive
2 Thes 2:11/ 1 Kings 22:23/ Ezek 14:9
21. Because of man's wickedness God destroys him
Gen 6:5,7
Because of man's wickedness God will not destroy him
Gen 8:21
22. God's attributes are revealed in his works.
Rom 1:20
God's attributes cannot be discovered
Job 11:7/ Is 40:28
23. There is but one God
Deut 6:4
There is a plurality of gods
Gen 1:26/ Gen 3:22/ Gen 18:1-3/ 1 John 5:7

reply to post by trueperspective


HAHA i totally feel you...im actually about to start looking in to seminary..and yes i know they wont listen..maybe someone will though..if one person does thats better than none haha..and also sometimes they ask really good questions and it makes me have to research and i learn more so thats always good

reply to post by WeShallBeFree


show me the holes and i will address them..most are just contextual or translation issues

Originally posted by aMason
I have been a long time reader, but I signed up because this thread really got to me. Seriously? Is the OP serious? I have two degrees in history, an undergraduate and graduate degree. A serious scholar would NEVER take the Bible as a source of fact. Much of the Bible can NOT EVER be proved. It can not even be proved that Jesus Christ existed. I have no problem with one having faith, but to claim it is fact does nothing but show ignorance. While claiming to be informed about matters, the OP comes off as the opposite. I have read, reread and studied both the Bible and the Koran....I bring this up because while you claim to have this incredible knowledge of what it is to be Christian you know nothing of the Koran. While I was studying Christianity I made it a point to read the Koran in order to further my knowledge of Christianity. When a Christian claims to know the "truth" but knows absolutley NOTHING about any other faiths I have a hard time taking him or her seriously. I strongly suggest you start using your brain and think on your own, and rely less on what an ancient work of fiction tells you.

There are two people. One is born into a Christian houshold in the most Christian nation in the world. The second is born into the most Muslim household in the most Muslim nation in the world. It looks to me like one has a great advantage over the other as to entering your "heaven." How is your God fair?

Let's make some clear distinctions please. A serious "atheistic, humanist" scholar would never take the Bible as a serious source. I'm not really surprised that your secular Bible Biased University that you got those degrees from would laugh at the Bible. And your argument about not knowing about other faiths is moot because I have seen God work in my faith. You don't study fake dollar bills to determine the real ones. You just study the real thing with extreme care and then the fakes become obvious.

Originally posted by trueperspective

Originally posted by WeShallBeFree

Originally posted by trueperspective
reply to post by resonance

 

Resonance, I applaud your effort as I am a Christian too and currently attending a seminary, BUT you have to realize as I have by now that NO ONE on ATS will listen to REASON. They would much rather listen to Unleashed68 spout off complete and utter non-sense and talk about how his posts really spoke to them. This site has an errrry cult feel to it. I think we should spread the truth as I have tried to do, but I don't think you will get much of a hearing in this setting, although I keep trying too....

Im sorry but this frustrates me. The Bible is full of holes and cannot be taken as complete truth yet you still say people here won't listen to reason, don't be a hypocrite.

Ahh, I would love the chance to defend the charge of hypocricy. Please I beg that you explain to me how I am a hypocrite. To what "full of holes" and "not complete truths" are you talking about. Specifics please so I may answer your charge.

It would take an entire thread to list all the contradictions but probably one of the most famous impossibilities would be the concept of Noah's Ark. The ark, according to Genesis I believe, is said to be around 450 feet long, 75 feet wide and 45 feet high. It would be impossible to get 2 of every creature on this earth in to that. I suppose it wasn't meant to be taken litterally?

You just study the real thing with extreme care and then the fakes become obvious.

Ever consider that you might have been studying the fake dollar bill all along?

[edit on 12-1-2010 by WeShallBeFree]

Originally posted by trueperspective

Originally posted by aMason
I have been a long time reader, but I signed up because this thread really got to me. Seriously? Is the OP serious? I have two degrees in history, an undergraduate and graduate degree. A serious scholar would NEVER take the Bible as a source of fact. Much of the Bible can NOT EVER be proved. It can not even be proved that Jesus Christ existed. I have no problem with one having faith, but to claim it is fact does nothing but show ignorance. While claiming to be informed about matters, the OP comes off as the opposite. I have read, reread and studied both the Bible and the Koran....I bring this up because while you claim to have this incredible knowledge of what it is to be Christian you know nothing of the Koran. While I was studying Christianity I made it a point to read the Koran in order to further my knowledge of Christianity. When a Christian claims to know the "truth" but knows absolutley NOTHING about any other faiths I have a hard time taking him or her seriously. I strongly suggest you start using your brain and think on your own, and rely less on what an ancient work of fiction tells you.

There are two people. One is born into a Christian houshold in the most Christian nation in the world. The second is born into the most Muslim household in the most Muslim nation in the world. It looks to me like one has a great advantage over the other as to entering your "heaven." How is your God fair?

Let's make some clear distinctions please. A serious "atheistic, humanist" scholar would never take the Bible as a serious source. I'm not really surprised that your secular Bible Biased University that you got those degrees from would laugh at the Bible. And your argument about not knowing about other faiths is moot because I have seen God work in my faith. You don't study fake dollar bills to determine the real ones. You just study the real thing with extreme care and then the fakes become obvious.

Im sure Muslims have seen God work through their faith as well, I guess maybe that means that your faith is the fake dollar bill......

I only read the first page of replies, and you are all bigots! The OP is simply trying to bring the true meaning of Christianity out of the bible. The bible is a book of stories written by different people, yet they all coincide-flawlessly. In addition to the fact that the bible is trying to tell you about the "free gift" and the rest is for reference and history.

Yet most all of you bash and claim your way is better, and I still dont know "your way" so what makes you any different than the god you claim does not exist? My God wants to build a relationship with me and you through the stories in the bible WE can all learn a little more. It doesnt have to be well if your god said I cant eat from the tree of knowledge then hes no god for me...well YOU my friend are missing the point! At the point in time the knowledge we needed to be "WITH GOD" was on the earth as was God and we lost that... so if your hunger for knowlege is greater than your love for God than you are on the wrong track- I am not saying any of you are wrong or going to hell, but you are very disrespectful to the OP's intent!

I would never ridicule your religion or thought process, just because it doesnt match mine.

thank you OP your words ring true with me! its not about the book, its about the message it brings! AMEN

Love and Light, Ronco