The difference between the Christian God/religion and others

reply to post by kingofmd

the fact that he describes these beings as “men in clothes that gleamed as lighting” should have been a dead give away.

This could just as easily be a reference to members of the Essene community, why should a ghost be more likely in such a tall tale ?

reply to post by mamabeth

You and I go by faith,not by sight.Moocow has to have sight,because he hasn't any faith.

Indeed M, you will base your life on the words of men without the requiremt of any evidence whatsoever.

If an individual dose not require evidence then he or she has no need to get into a debate over the subject they have "faith" in, indeed it is an insult to the intelligence for such a person to try to produce evidence to support their case when they have no need of it they will believe anything they are told as long as it fits in with what they choose to believe.

Originally posted by moocowman
... neither of these are evidence to that over 2 million jews were held captive in egypt, please bare in mind that the Egyptian evidence speaks to the contrary.

There are a number of scholars who claim that a gross error in chronology has been made in calculating the dates of Egyptian history and that they should be reduced by centuries. This would bring the 12th dynasty down to the time of Moses, and there is plenty of circumstantial evidence in that dynasty to support the Biblical records. Look up Amenemhet III had a daughter whose name was Sobekneferu. And quit watching the history channel. I have yet to see any documentary on ancient history that isn't chock full of beliefs that were discredited/refuted by evidence years ago. For instance, they are still convinced that Columbus "discovered" America, and that man made global warming is going to kill everyone...

reply to post by kingofmd

There are a number of scholars who claim that a gross error in chronology has been made in calculating the dates of Egyptian history and that they should be reduced by centuries.

And ?

There is no evidence of over 2 million (600000 of them armed men) Hebrew being kept as slaves in Egypt.

Regardless of what date what dynasty what Pharoh, they simply weren't there period it is BS.



By the way I don't actually watch much TV so don't really understand your (no doubt insulting) remark in relation to the History channel.

I worship the God of Schrodinger's Cat.

--
I believe in God
I believe that God was a the creator, or creators.
I claim no other attributes; emotional, motivational, spiritual, or it's attributes.
That I exist and observe this beautiful creation, is a wonderful gift.
That I exist and cherish this creation, I want to know more about it.
The more I discover about this creation, the more awestruck I become.
That others exist and observe this creation with me, is fulfilling.
That others exist and cannot appreciate it's true majesty saddens me.
That others exist and will not appreciate it's true majesty frustrates me.
That others exist and seek to lie and cover the the eyes of others angers me.
That others exist and lead the blind while describing it's beauty gives me hope.
That I, and the others, exist - but one day will not, frightens me.
That I, and the others, are a way for the creation to see itself inspires me.
That I may one day see beyond the creation to find no creator, I can accept.
... and I would be no less grateful.
--------

Seeing the universe through the blinders of religion, superstition, and magical thinking is like reading a Dick & Jane book when you could be reading Shakespeare. Dick & Jane may have been a favorite since childhood, but there is so much more out there... with depth and beauty beyond anything preimagined. Though it may be difficult to follow at times, the words hard to pronounce, if even you only ever catch the beauty of the language and prose as they flow - you'll be consumed by it. Though a part of that beauty is the inevitable and potent tragedy of it all, which must be embraced if it's to be truly savored.

If we are the stuff of stars, then it's time to know thyself.

As for God, I figure if he wants to make itself know, that's her business. As for now, God is like the Cat in the Box, waiting for the breech of the quantum event which created the Universe. I hope he's still alive, and I have faith he's still alive. But it'll be the observed evidence beyond that final veil which collapses the wave form.

If it sounds like an absurdity, then I agree. Belief in gods is absurd. Schrodinger's Cat is a bit of an absurdity as well.



[edit on 12-1-2010 by Lasheic]

reply to post by eight bits


it is not about peter's decision though..peter came to his decision because the prophecy in the book of psalms need to be fulfilled (acts 1:20)..and when reading acts 1:18 judas is mentioned in passing..he is not important..the only importants he holds is to fulfill that prophecy..so matthew not mentioning that after hanging judas fell and and busted open is irrelevant..

reply to post by moocowman


i introduced him just because i knew of it..i figured id show you and let you make your own decision..i even told you he was controversial..

again you are saying im not presenting facts...i have presented plenty that are historically corroborated...flavius josephus is widely used as a source for history or the jews..just because he was jewish does not mean he was not presenting factual information...as i showed you he quotes AN EGYPTIAN WHO SAID MOSES WAS IN EGYPT AND THAT GOD SMITED THE EGYPTIANS...

you can not say someone is not credible just because you dont agree with what they say..josephus is extremely credible and to argue that is foolish as he is accepted by scholars to be historically accurate..

now..if you want me to keep responding to your repetitive attempts to just flat out say im wrong, with no reason for saying so id like you to present some information as to why you believe this..i have asked this multiple times and not gotten it

If an individual dose not require evidence then he or she has no need to get into a debate over the subject they have "faith" in, indeed it is an insult to the intelligence for such a person to try to produce evidence to support their case when they have no need of it they will believe anything they are told as long as it fits in with what they choose to believe.

please read your own words..you have supplied no evidence at all for anything you have said..all you do is say i am wrong which does not suffice...i would love to see all this evidence that proves you right since by your own admission you need said evidence to believe there is no god..

there is tons of evidence to back up the bible and i have just presented some that applies to the topics you have raised..you however choose to ignore the evidence just because you want to with no FACTUAL reason for doing so other than your belief..

my belief is backed up by history and science..yours (as seen so far) is backed up by arrogance and stubbornness

reply to post by kingofmd


my goodness amen lol....the history channel is such a joke..i havent watched it in so long..after i repeatedly heard false reports presented as fact i completely lost faith in it

reply to post by moocowman


you can drop the egypt thing..i understand you keep resorting to it as it is the only thing i have not clearly shown you that you were wrong about, but you keep repeating the number 2 million lol like you expect to be able to find 2 million pairs of jewish shoes in a hole they left us to find..i gave you a historical figure who is considered trustworth by scholars who said they were there yet you ignored it..drop the egypt thing..

reply to post by Lasheic


ehhh kinda confused but your cat didnt die for your sins, he will not save your soul..he has no historical backup for his existence..the christian god does..

Seeing the universe through the blinders of religion, superstition, and magical thinking is like reading a Dick & Jane book when you could be reading Shakespeare. Dick & Jane may have been a favorite since childhood, but there is so much more out there... with depth and beauty beyond anything preimagined. Though it may be difficult to follow at times, the words hard to pronounce, if even you only ever catch the beauty of the language and prose as they flow - you'll be consumed by it. Though a part of that beauty is the inevitable and potent tragedy of it all, which must be embraced if it's to be truly savored.

i would agree..but if you take the blinders off..and truly study the world..you find that everything points to the bible being correct..study physics, astronomy, anatomy, history...if you go in with an open mind and take all the information at once, throw out all old beliefs and really try to find the truth, all these things lead you to the christian god...not as mainstream christianity portrays him, but as the bible explains him

i have a real quick question.. Have you ever read the bible? It is full of contradictions, problems, false information, and tons of other things. If you read not only the bible but the book of Horus, the Torah, Quran, Gilgamesh, Atrahasis, and tons of other world religion books (and no buddhism doesnt come from a single book by one author) you would realize that the bible is simply a plagiarized book taken from many others. The message you take out of it will be different from the one many others take out of it. It is simply a bunch of tales, with meaning injected into them, to give people a sense of why they are here and life lessons. In no way shape or form is it "factual". I studied religion in college, so i am not just blowing smoke, and if you take a step back to take a holistic view on all religions, not just christianity, and not just focus on one, they are all more or less the same. The problem is that you cannot get a true "open mind" when researching into this because you already believe that the bible is true and that other books are false.
At the same time you are comparing faith with reason, which is much like the "apples to oranges" phrase. You are talking about faith, which by definition means that there is no factual evidence and it is blindly believing in something. So to say you have facts on a faith would be to contradict yourself and the faith...

reply to post by SAB17


i am not talking about faith at all..my faith is backed up with evidence..please show me some examples of the things you claim and i will show you why you are wrong..and if you read my first post it clearly shows what is different about the bible than the other books..because yes i have read it and read parts of the others

also just because you say you studied it in college means nothing to me..i did as well..and have spent countless hours on personal study..not just what people tell me in class..if you have truly studied it then you would see the vast differences if not then you have not at all..the differences are obvious..i can go in depth if need be...

[edit on 12-1-2010 by resonance]

reply to post by resonance

ehhh kinda confused but your cat didnt die for your sins, he will not save your soul..he has no historical backup for his existence..the christian god does..

Hm, I thought the metaphor was easy enough. Probably was too, I'm sure you got it, but you don't care. At any rate, tis a bit silly to ask me to beg forgiveness of my sins from a figment of your imagination. What sins I have commited in my life are human sins, and the matter of forgiveness it is up to those who I sinned against. I'd rather die knowing that I had to work and make things right for restitution, rather than to skate by like a spoiled rich boy who's daddy's going to pick up the check.

Has historical backup? Heh. My bible is the creation. It IS Historical backup. 14.5 billion years of it, and accurate enough to build all the technology that you freely use to spread the word of your Dick & Jane story. You seem to forget that any man can write a book and call it the word of god. Until you can demonstrate where man can create the Universe, there's really no contest in regards to authenticity.

Oh, I know your story book says that your god did it. Except the text and story doesn't seem to match, and when going for authenticity verification, you always try to seek source material.


You're worried about my soul? You shouldn't concern yourself. Souls don't exist. Neither yours or mine, anybodies. Only WE exist in the here and now. You'll never get this chance again. A spark in the darkness is only brilliant because it glows brilliantly and defiantly against the contrast of the darkened void. Are you that sure that your spark will burn forever, on the promise made in a book and bit of pageantry? Can you truly claim confidence in the authenticity of that book when you stare out into the tapestry of the cosmos?

Is your faith in god so weak that you must shield him against stories of miracles and myths of salvation... and why, to honor God? Or to chase some carrot on a stick under the presumption of reward at the end of the journey. That seems so shallow and ungrateful to me.

[edit on 12-1-2010 by Lasheic]

reply to post by resonance

you can drop the egypt thing..i understand you keep resorting to it as it is the only thing i have not clearly shown you that you were wrong about, but you keep repeating the number 2 million lol like you expect to be able to find 2 million pairs of jewish shoes in a hole they left us to find..

Dude, let's get an understanding here, you have not proved me wrong about anything as I have not claimed to be right about anything.

Remember the burden of proof is upon you,

Now then once again, you claimed to have "facts" but have yet to provide any.

Indeed I repeat the number 2 million, as this is presented as fact by the bibles that you accept as fact.

I have (as you are fully aware) asked you to present the evidence for this alleged "fact" in relation to this alleged historical even which you are clearly unable to do.

Why are you unable to do so ? Because the alleged event didn't happen, now 2 million shoes would indeed go along way in bolstering your claim in fact an inscription alluding to the owners of said shoes may go somewhere.

Hearsay is not factual evidence my friend especially when logistics refute the hearsay.

A population of around 3 million Egyptians held captive 2 million Hebrew slaves against their will 600000 of whom were armed "fighting men" !!!

i gave you a historical figure who is considered trustworth by scholars who said they were there yet you ignored it..drop the egypt thing..

The historical figure is only as trustworthy as his source and in this case, no different to jews of today his source was his hearsay "religious belief".

So no I will not drop the Egypt thing, and neither will any other intelligent person that demands evidence.

Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence my friend and in relation to this particular claim you have not provided the evidence and therefore not provided a fact.

There is simply no evidence of this 2 million exodus, of course you can always set the record straight by being the first to prove it as fact, I'm sure the universities of the world would love to hear of your new evidence.

reply to post by Lasheic


well that first paragraph shows lack of understanding..it isnt about begging forgiveness...and to admit that you cant save yourself and need someone else to do so requires you to be humble not spoiled..this ability is blocked by our pride and arrogance as humans...

Has historical backup? Heh. My bible is the creation. It IS Historical backup. 14.5 billion years of it, and accurate enough to build all the technology that you freely use to spread the word of your Dick & Jane story.

how does the earth say it was created...and technology has nothing to do with the earth

You seem to forget that any man can write a book and call it the word of god. Until you can demonstrate where man can create the Universe, there's really no contest in regards to authenticity.

YES! see this is the difference in the bible and other books..the bible was written over a long period of time..its 66 books by 40 different people who in most cases never met or lived at the same time, yet it is harmonious. and god is not a man lol..sooo i dunno..

Oh, I know your story book says that your god did it. Except the text and story doesn't seem to match, and when going for authenticity verification, you always try to seek source material.

um..please show me where it doesnt match so i can show you why you are mistaken..

Can you truly claim confidence in the authenticity of that book when you stare out into the tapestry of the cosmos?

so you are telling me it is more logical for you to assume the whole universe occurred by chance...either you are insane or you do not know much about the universe..the degree of chance involved for our life to be the way it is is staggering...the degree of chance is much higher than that of the bible being right , yet you through your faith in that..

Is your faith in god so weak that you must shield him against stories of miracles and myths of salvation... and why, to honor God? Or to chase some carrot on a stick under the presumption of reward at the end of the journey. That seems so shallow and ungrateful to me.

my faith in god is not weak at all..we havent been discussing miracles or anything in this thread lol..and the point of being saved is not for a reward lol..you should really look in to it so you can know what you are talking about before you make assertions

my point was not to argue the inconsistencies and problems of the bible, and even if i did point them out, it would not help at all since you have faith in what you believe in. My point was that factual evidence, brought up by others in the thread, have no use since facts dont really have anything to do with faith and probably wont alter your faith anyway. The bible gives a message, and it is different to everyone. I am not saying you are wrong, just that i disagree. That is the reason why there has been so many deaths and wars fought over religion is because of different interpretations.
Going back to your original post, i read it as you saying that christianity is different because god wants to save you and mankind, whereas other religions god does not want to offer salvation, and that you know this because the bible is true, whereas other religious texts are not. If the bible teaches the salvation of mankind, then how can you say in the OP that it is not a code of ethics? wouldnt you have to follow some ethics to be "saved"? sure free will plays into that, but do other religions not allow it? You say that christianity's god gives us a choice of what to do, and depending on what you choose you go to heaven or hell. can you explain to me as how you see this different than the day of reckoning that islamic people believe in, where you either are chosen to go o heaven or hell by allah, depending on how you lived your life? Maybe i am just misunderstanding the OP.

reply to post by resonance

please show me some examples of the things you claim and i will show you why you are wrong.

The Tomb of Jesus and mary and joseph father of jesus is to be found at Talpiot.

and if the bible is true, then why do Cornelius Nepos, Sallust, Strabo, Diodorus Siculus, Titus, or Paterculas, all of whom were well respected historians around the time of jesus death, say absolutely nothing about it. If a man rose from the grave and ascended to heaven for all to see, dont you think someone would have written about it at the time. Yes the Bible was written over a long period of time by many authors, but do you not think they may have been able to read other texts and take bits and pieces. What do you think about the Council of Nicea?

Originally posted by resonance
reply to post by Oscitate

 

this is in no way a flaw in logic..ill give you an example

lets say you have two roads that lead to the same place and you know nothing about either road.

you look at road #1 and it looks dangerous, hard, and long

you look at road #2 and it looks easy to travel

so you pick road #2...you do this knowing nothing about either..you just know road #1 looks better than road #2 and you therefore choose #1 just because you dont want to take #2...so in effect you CHOSE not to go down road 2 although you could if you wanted

It is not about God sending you to hell for punishment...your soul has to spend eternity somewhere, it cannot die, it is eternal...so you have your two choices...your 2 paths to travel for eternity, heaven or hell...God gives you the choice and if you choose not to take the easy path to heaven you are in effect willingly choosing the other path which leads to hell. what makes this better though is that God tells us about each path yet many still reject the easy one

You call road # 1 easy! Hah! I'm a christian and in no way shape or form is it easy. No one is perfect except Jesus Christ. Which brings me to the most important point, what you have done is allowed more people on this online community become even more confused about christianity. Although I agree with a few of your points, what you have tried and failed at explaining here is impossible to do in a simple thread. Your best bet is to support all of your points with God's Word the Holy Bible!

You haven't explained the Holy Trinity Either which would have been a better approach given your subject title!

reply to post by moocowman


archaeological data is hard to come by...it can only tell us so much..it can not be proven the way mathematical equations of physical laws can..

even if there was paramount evidence that the jews were in egypt the only possible form it would be in is writing by a jew (the book of exodus, and flavius josephus) or egyptian (i gave you the egyptian) and maybe some artifacts, as all of this would be thousands of years old

it would be very hard for written records to survive to this day...

here is another writing...ohr.edu...

while not COMPLETELY PROVEN to be about the exodus, this page shows the parallels and it is hard to dismiss them as something else..

and again..egypt would not record what happened with the jews..its embarrassing and shows that the pharoah is not sent from God or god-like or whatever as they thought back then..