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Spirituality is just another "big shiny box"....

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posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 10:29 PM
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..... for you to get lost in, like any other religion.





Little boxes on the hillside,
Little boxes made of ticky tacky
Little boxes on the hillside,
Little boxes all the same,
Theres a pink one & a green one
And a blue one & a yellow one
And they are all made out of ticky tacky
And they all look just the same.

And the people in the houses
All went to the university
Where they were put in boxes
And they came out all the same
And theres doctors & lawyers
And business executives
And they are all made out of ticky tacky
And they all look just the same.

And they all play on the golf course
And drink their martinis dry
And they all have pretty children
And the children go to school,
And the children go to summer camp
And then to the university
Where they´re put in boxes
And they come out all the same.

And the boys go into business
And marry & raise a family
In boxes made of ticky tacky
And they all look just the same,
Theres a pink one & a green one
And a blue one & a yellow one
And they are all made out of ticky tacky
And they all look just the same.




posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 01:02 AM
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Actually, there is understanding and then their is acceptance. Religion is about the acceptance of dogma in it's worse state, the expression of understanding and philosophy in it's best.

I'm pretty sure that song was written about San Fransisco.

At any rate, I find this thread to be ironic since you are actually just trying to get people into boxes that are just like your own.



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 07:22 PM
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Originally posted by badmedia
Actually, there is understanding and then their is acceptance. Religion is about the acceptance of dogma in it's worse state, the expression of understanding and philosophy in it's best.


dogma - amgod



At any rate, I find this thread to be ironic since you are actually just trying to get people into boxes that are just like your own.


There is no box.





[edit on 12-1-2010 by Uncle Benny]



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 11:56 PM
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Non sequester songs eh?



I got you all beat hands down lol. Bet you never heard of that song.

Anyway what does houses have to do with religion?



posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 12:06 AM
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Originally posted by Uncle Benny
dogma - amgod


Thanks for the completely empty reply and generalizations. Save the alphabet soup games for the kids please.



There is no box.


Everyone has a box, it's called "perception" and the fact that it is limited, which is a requirement of experiencing reality to begin with.



posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 12:25 AM
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Originally posted by badmedia
Everyone has a box, it's called "perception" and the fact that it is limited, which is a requirement of experiencing reality to begin with.



Why do you think everyone has a box called "perception?"



posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 04:01 PM
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I think you are right that spirituality can become like another box. How many new age people do you talk to that will parrot cliches like "You create your own reality, "I am god", "Ascend into the 5th dimension" "Talk to your higher self", "your chakras are unbalanced/2 Although, I must admit, these are more positive beliefs than the traditional religious ones, but they are are still beliefs - boxes.

True spirituality is not about belieiving, but experiencing. I must caution spiritual people from becoming too focussed on concepts, and shift their focus on actual experience. Cultivate your character through moral and spiritual discipline, constantly explore your self and integrate love and wisdom in your life. If you are doing this, then you are truly spiritual.

[edit on 13-1-2010 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 05:24 PM
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Originally posted by Indigo_Child
True spirituality is not about belieiving, but experiencing. I must caution spiritual people from becoming too focussed on concepts, and shift their focus on actual experience. Cultivate your character through moral and spiritual discipline, constantly explore your self and integrate love and wisdom in your life. If you are doing this, then you are truly spiritual.
[edit on 13-1-2010 by Indigo_Child]



I agree Indigo_Child, the many beliefs we hold stiffle us from seeing what is really there. As it was said if you want to hide truth from others - call it something else, put it in front of people and it will not be seen. What is often in plain sight is not what you are repeatedly told it is, the concepts and beliefs must be dropped. I've nothing against anyone holding different beliefs, it's the identification with said belief which causes problems.





posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 10:04 AM
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Originally posted by Uncle BennyWhy do you think everyone has a box called "perception?"


2 parts to reality/creation/universe. 1 part is the observer, the other part is that which is being observed.

The universe/creation itself is really just information/data that is perceived. The amount and type of information that is perceived is the "box" that each and every person has.

This information is by design limited, as to bring about a specific and unique experience for the observer. If you add or change information to that perception, then you have then by default changed the entire experience, or "box".

Take a glass of water on your desk, change that bit of information and then maybe you have a glass of wine. All that was changed was the information, and thus the "box" or "experience" itself was also changed.

Take the idea of becoming a bird, or reincarnating into a bird. If you carry your human memories into the bird, you won't be a "bird", you will be a human in a bird body. In order to truly be the bird, you can only have the bird memories. 2 completely different experiences/boxes.

Thus all people have boxes, it's just a matter of what's in your box. Beliefs and such are what people put in their boxes. Beliefs create walls in the box because the person will no longer search in such a direction because they have the belief. Then they try to force other people into their boxes.

But all people have boxes, the only one without a box is the father/god. Thus the entire reason why if you are to truly see "god" completely, "you" will cease to exist. Because the limited perspective that makes "you" and this experience will be gone.

True knowledge of god/divine/spiritual things is understanding, not beliefs. Just because someone expresses something doesn't mean it's "beliefs".



posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 05:18 PM
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Originally posted by badmedia
2 parts to reality/creation/universe. 1 part is the observer, the other part is that which is being observed.



Be careful, is the observer separate from what is being observed? Ponder/meditate on it.



The universe/creation itself is really just information/data that is perceived. The amount and type of information that is perceived is the "box" that each and every person has.


And you know this because.....?



This information is by design limited, as to bring about a specific and unique experience for the observer. If you add or change information to that perception, then you have then by default changed the entire experience, or "box".


There is nothing limited about the information, you must switch the focus back to "what" is observing? Then watch the info spiral.



Take the idea of becoming a bird, or reincarnating into a bird. If you carry your human memories into the bird, you won't be a "bird", you will be a human in a bird body. In order to truly be the bird, you can only have the bird memories. 2 completely different experiences/boxes.


Why do you want to talk about "an idea" about becoming a bird? To truely be the bird, or talk about what a bird experiences you have to "become the bird" (nothing more, nothing less).



Thus all people have boxes, it's just a matter of what's in your box. Beliefs and such are what people put in their boxes. Beliefs create walls in the box because the person will no longer search in such a direction because they have the belief. Then they try to force other people into their boxes.


Again, you're pointing outside of yourself - "people have boxes." This is a mind concept which I was highlighting in the op - spirituality can become just another mind-concept, a trap which may spring a new religion.



But all people have boxes, the only one without a box is the father/god.


Just another concept - father god 666, and mother goddess 333 = Christos 999 - The 666 (outer masculine) is pushed in the paternal society we live in today, shunning the inner-self, lunar/mother goddess represented by the 333.



True knowledge of god/divine/spiritual things is understanding, not beliefs. Just because someone expresses something doesn't mean it's "beliefs".


Good point, I agree.



[edit on 15-1-2010 by Uncle Benny]



posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by Uncle Benny
Just another concept - father god 666, and mother goddess 333 = Christos 999 - The 666 (outer masculine) is pushed in the paternal society we live in today, shunning the inner-self, lunar/mother goddess represented by the 333.



Just to expand on this a little further - There is nothing negative or evil about the 666, it is just representative of the male energy frequency (sun symbolic) outer-masculine.

The divine feminine is represented by the moon/lunar goddess 333 frequency (higher-self).

The "controllers" of this plain do so by very subtly knocking people out of alignment energetically, keeping us focused on division and influencing us to look "out there" for the answers (thereby ignoring the link to higher-self, which we all have).


The 666/sun-symbolism is pushed by every major institution, be it through religion - worshipping the "sun" of God on a Sun/day, the sun being reborn on the 25th December (the first day the sun rises one degree in the sky) for the new year - or some other means.

By keeping the yin and yang, sun 666 and moon 333, out of balance humanity is easily controlled. Light V dark, good V bad, black V white etc - simply get people to identify with something/choose a side etc, we see this in sport, politics (you name it).


Some examples of sun symbolism in music -




- Spook anthem (CIA/MI6)






[edit on 15-1-2010 by Uncle Benny]



posted on Jan, 17 2010 @ 05:09 PM
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Humpty Dumpty (The Fall of Man)


Humpty Dumpty (999) sat on a wall,
Humpty Dumpty (999) had a great fall.

All the kings (666) horses and all the kings men (666),
couldn't put Humpty (999) together again... Why not?


Not until all the Queens (333) horses and all the Queens women (333) helped out,
Only then could they put Humpty (999) back together again.



posted on Jan, 17 2010 @ 08:16 PM
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Originally posted by Uncle Benny

..... for you to get lost in, like any other religion.





Little boxes on the hillside,
Little boxes made of ticky tacky
Little boxes on the hillside,
Little boxes all the same,
Theres a pink one & a green one
And a blue one & a yellow one
And they are all made out of ticky tacky
And they all look just the same.

And the people in the houses
All went to the university
Where they were put in boxes
And they came out all the same
And theres doctors & lawyers
And business executives
And they are all made out of ticky tacky
And they all look just the same.

And they all play on the golf course
And drink their martinis dry
And they all have pretty children
And the children go to school,
And the children go to summer camp
And then to the university
Where they´re put in boxes
And they come out all the same.

And the boys go into business
And marry & raise a family
In boxes made of ticky tacky
And they all look just the same,
Theres a pink one & a green one
And a blue one & a yellow one
And they are all made out of ticky tacky
And they all look just the same.



Religion exists to help people deal with things they don't understand. I prefer to use science. However many people don't have the where with all to connect the dots, and they default to a rather simple concept that when humans get smacked with some great horror, you must have done something wrong. Take the earth quake in Haiti. I was shocked by what Pat Robertson said. This miserable mother f***** blamed the people of Haiti for the earthquake!!

You could study something like geology, etc. Oh, I forgot,you don't believe in science. Fine. Next time you need advanced medical help, just say no. It would be nice if you acted like a Christion. Even people who don't accept the Christ, would do very well by following his teachings. Try to help others and get off your high hourse.



posted on Jan, 17 2010 @ 09:07 PM
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Originally posted by arbiture

Religion exists to help people deal with things they don't understand. I prefer to use science. However many people don't have the where with all to connect the dots, and they default to a rather simple concept that when humans get smacked with some great horror, you must have done something wrong. Take the earth quake in Haiti. I was shocked by what Pat Robertson said. This miserable mother f***** blamed the people of Haiti for the earthquake!!



Different people have different beliefs regarding why things happen to them, best to leave these to one side and not be judgmental.



posted on Jan, 29 2010 @ 04:06 AM
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[edit on 29-1-2010 by Uncle Benny]



posted on Jan, 29 2010 @ 03:01 PM
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Originally posted by Uncle Benny
Be careful, is the observer separate from what is being observed? Ponder/meditate on it.


Yes, that which is observed is that which is dead, that which observes is that which is life. Without the observer, there is no life and no reality. That which is observed is built upon logic and is thus action and reaction.

In the beginning of creation, there was only the word. This word is logic, of which all creation comes from. You can see this in computer programs where entire virtual words are created by nothing but logic. You have laws of physics and everything in these things, to a degree anyway. But it is all logic and reaction.

Because it is based on logic, it has action and reaction. Choice, free will, understanding and so forth are all things logic can not do(outside illusion). However, consciousness/spirit/soul or whatever you want to call it is that which is the observer, and in that you have free will, choice and so forth.

As such, Science is that which is best in terms of coming to understand the universe. Because the universe and that which is observed is works on logic, and action and reaction they are things which are repeatable in a lab. But if you notice, Science is by it's very nature not equipped to deal with things such as choice.

A computer can not even generate a truly random number. And yet, on a computer AI, the only way to simulate a choice is to use a random number among a pre-selected number of choices(or a function that generates choices etc). In the end, all such things that robots and AI do are things which amounts to complex patterns, of which the smarts of the AI was instilled into it by it's programmer. Yet, truly understanding, truly being and being aware are things that are foreign to these things.

And if you look in the direction of AI, you will see that currently one of the main goals is how to get consciousness into the machine/program etc. And it is for this reason. Go ahead and you yourself try to think of the logics behind understanding, behind being aware and so forth. You will see these things are not of what you see "out there".

As such, consciousness and reality both exhibit 2 completely different sets of ways of working. As reality/logic itself can not create such things, as they are completely illogical in nature. Does not compute.

So, in the terms of Jesus and what he said. That which is flesh is flesh, and that which is spirit is spirit. I'm betting you yourself see yourself as flesh right? Yet, can you define yourself without naming a possession? "Your" body? Your job? Your car? Your brain? All these things are possession, so what possesses these things? These things are you?

Your body is merely part of the creation. Thus, with Jesus he speaks of 2 births. The birth of the flesh, which you have obviously experienced, and the birth of spirit which you have yet to realize. When you start to understand the differences between these things, then your entire perspective(a function of being an observer) will change.

There is a relationship between the 2, but consciousness can and did exist before and without the universe. Consciousness creates logic, logic can not create consciousness.




The universe/creation itself is really just information/data that is perceived. The amount and type of information that is perceived is the "box" that each and every person has.

And you know this because.....?


Experience. I had an experience where I was given understanding. I am also a programmer, and I once wanted to create actual intelligence. I came to realize that in the end, I would have to put my consciousness into the computer/program before it could have true intelligence. Free will and unlimited information are both requirements for intelligence. Artificial intelligence is artificial because it does nothing but follow the logic given to it by it's creator(doesn't have a soul).

As such, I also realized I was doing that which was already created in my own reality and gave up on the idea completely in a personal way. AI can do many great things, but it will always be slave to that which created it and the logic given to it.

But as those requirements exist before intelligence can exist, this also means that every possibility exists all at once. If all things are not possible and do not exist, then free will in itself does not exist. Because you are by default limited.

And yet, the funny thing about this is that part of having free will is the ability to give it away. Which is exactly what we do on any number of occasions in order to have/gain an experience. Take any game you play. You agree to rules(laws) in order to have the experience. In poker, you purposely limit the amount of knowledge you have available to you in order to have the experience. If everyone knew all the cards, the game does not exist and you can not have that experience. Thus, the box that is created is created for the experience, and everyone of a limited perception by default has a box. It is by that box that you will define yourself as.



There is nothing limited about the information, you must switch the focus back to "what" is observing? Then watch the info spiral.


If you did not have limited information then time would not exist for you because there would be no new information to give the illusion that we call time. I'm not near foolish enough to pretend as if I know all.



Again, you're pointing outside of yourself - "people have boxes." This is a mind concept which I was highlighting in the op - spirituality can become just another mind-concept, a trap which may spring a new religion.


But you doing nothing more than saying - the sky is blue, therefore go eat melons. All people have boxes. You have a box. Just like the bird. It is that and nothing more or nothing less. That is it's box. So calling people out for having boxes is dumb, because all have boxes.

You know who saw all the "little boxes all the same"? The man who didn't pay to the details of what made them unique.




Just another concept - father god 666, and mother goddess 333 = Christos 999 - The 666 (outer masculine) is pushed in the paternal society we live in today, shunning the inner-self, lunar/mother goddess represented by the 333.


Hogwash.

[edit on 1/29/2010 by badmedia]



posted on Jan, 30 2010 @ 09:42 AM
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Originally posted by badmedia
Yes, that which is observed is that which is dead, that which observes is that which is life. Without the observer, there is no life and no reality. That which is observed is built upon logic and is thus action and reaction.


The only reason you see death is because you identify with it. If "death" wasn't in you you wouldn't see it anywhere else.

You say... "without the observer there is no life" - Who then is the observer? This is the question to focus on.



Because it is based on logic, it has action and reaction. Choice, free will, understanding and so forth are all things logic can not do(outside illusion). However, consciousness/spirit/soul or whatever you want to call it is that which is the observer, and in that you have free will, choice and so forth.


Here you say "spirit" or "soul" is the observer - What then is a soul? Do you really know what a soul is, or have you just read about it from a book, wikipedia etc? Do you have a soul, or are you soul?



And if you look in the direction of AI, you will see that currently one of the main goals is how to get consciousness into the machine/program etc. And it is for this reason. Go ahead and you yourself try to think of the logics behind understanding, behind being aware and so forth.


If you began to realise the innate genius/consciousness in you (which is inherent in everyone) you would have no interest in placing "consciousness into the machine/program." Such an idea would come across as ludicrous to you.

Everything has it's own consciousness and this includes A.I. It may not be the type of consciousness you're expecting, but there is intelligence there nonetheless. Was it not Jesus who said - "Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift up the stone, and you will find Me there."



So, in the terms of Jesus and what he said. That which is flesh is flesh, and that which is spirit is spirit. I'm betting you yourself see yourself as flesh right?


I don't see myself as anything, or nothing. I am myself, simple as that. I am who am, same as you and everyone else.



Yet, can you define yourself without naming a possession? "Your" body? Your job? Your car? Your brain? All these things are possession, so what possesses these things? These things are you?


You cannot possess or own anything. Yes we have ownership rights, man-made rules and regulations governing "property" etc but this is exactly what they are, man-made, part of the game. The native Americans "sold" their property to the Europeans for as little as a few cases of whiskey and some tobacco as the idea that someone could own a part of the Earth was madness to them. It's like me saying today, I have a fine piece of sky you might be interested in purchasing for a reasonable fee.

Whatever about our man-made laws and rules, trouble starts when people begin identifying with "their" property, and indeed "their" thoughts and anything else outside of themselves. We place our happiness in other things and other people i.e Why did my wife run off and sleep with another man, how could she do this to me etc. People let themselves get bounced around like footballs because they believe other things and other people will make them happy. As sure as you strap yourself into finding happiness through others, you also find sadness through others. True contentment comes from within... this isn't some profound statement, it's true.



Experience. I had an experience where I was given understanding. I am also a programmer, and I once wanted to create actual intelligence. I came to realize that in the end, I would have to put my consciousness into the computer/program before it could have true intelligence. Free will and unlimited information are both requirements for intelligence. Artificial intelligence is artificial because it does nothing but follow the logic given to it by it's creator(doesn't have a soul).


Like I said before, when you realise your intelligence you won't be interested in making anything more intelligent or self-aware, you'll leave things be as they are.



If all things are not possible and do not exist, then free will in itself does not exist.


Free will does not exist, it's an illusion the majority of people identify with. "Freedom" is essentially letting go of constraints. "Will" has to do with mind/intellect, they cannot and do not co-exist. If you choose to attain some goal you focus on it and work towards it, will is involved. Yet as you tie yourself to the goal you lose your freedom. There is nothing wrong with this but it's important to understand.



Take any game you play. You agree to rules(laws) in order to have the experience. In poker, you purposely limit the amount of knowledge you have available to you in order to have the experience. If everyone knew all the cards, the game does not exist and you can not have that experience. Thus, the box that is created is created for the experience, and everyone of a limited perception by default has a box. It is by that box that you will define yourself as.


Yes Bill Hicks alluded to life in this way, but the problem is not in playing. The difficulties arise when people no longer know they are playing. "The box" is created by a few to keep others (who have forgotten) playing the game, essentially playing someone elses game. What I'm saying throughout is that there are no boxes!




[edit on 30-1-2010 by Uncle Benny]



posted on Jan, 30 2010 @ 01:05 PM
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You know what? Right after communion I did go to jack in the box.

They got a mean breakfast, no aplphabet soups.


Everything is a box. Athiest box themselves in and exclude any other source. Religion can be a box, BUT, It's something WE believe God founded to allow mandkind to know where we come from.

Like i said before.

God leaves his life story to mandkind and comes to this Earth to be with us in the flesh. WE believe this. This OP will not change that.

The fact that he doesn't give it any chance is his own box which will lead to his own fate.

Now scientists denied that box and where has it gotten us? We are gonna destroy ourselves and create a World War that mandkind has never seen. We create weapons of mass destruction and technology that leads to our destruction because we have idol minds and have freed ourselves from the (apparent) box.



Everybody has a box, bt the OP will try and convince you that he doesn't, but don't be fooled by that.

It's what box is the truth is the matter. And we believe it's Christ.


period .


peace. BTW go to jack in the box. Good food. That BOX I love keeping myself in.



posted on Jan, 30 2010 @ 01:10 PM
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"free will doesn't exist "

Baloney. You telling me if you wanted to go get a soda right now you can't do it?

You can do what you want. Consequences come from our actions, doesn't mean we can't say no.



The only real box that exist is Love. Christ taught that box, and it's very simple.Don't let a bunch of words from the OP fool you. Like Christ said.

" they are wise in their own conciets "

I'm sure you can understand that readers.

peace/



posted on Jan, 30 2010 @ 01:18 PM
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And Btw we don't get lost in this box. Souls grow in this box and become saintly. And reach a love that cannot be put into words. Not a prideful love. Not a I'm all that, I'm too real, I'm fine without God ego love.

A true love with feeling and humility. And I know from experience what this love has done in my soul.



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