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Differences in our realities: you don't live in the same world I do

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posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 03:26 PM
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It occurs to me after having many discussions about the weather, critters, religion and Native American rights that there are fundamental differences that are seldom talked about, or even thought about. These differences color our perceptions and expectations. My purpose in this thread is to illuminate my world for you in exchange for you illuminating yours. I will endeavor to avoid "better/worse" and ask that you do, too. We don't all see the same things, and attach different values to those things, but we use the same words to describe them, causing endless confusion.


My background:

I was raised in several worlds, but made my choice of which I lived in by the time I was about seven or eight. I was raised by an Apache mother and grandmother in north central Texas in the old ways, and in Chicago I attended Catholic school in a well-to-do neighborhood. Each culture had a fair shot at my mind and spirit, but by the time, and when, Catholicism demanded I make a choice, I chose the Apache ways and have been nothing but Apache ever since.

Up until the pre-confirmation interview with the priest I was content to walk both worlds, but when the one wouldn't tolerate the other, I looked harder at what was underneath. I suppose it was obvious I was leaning against the non-Apache world since I was required to attend extra catechism classes and was formally forbidden to ask any more questions in catechism class until high school after I asked in 2nd grade catechism that if the Christian god knew everything, had a plan for everything, and forgave everything, why was there a special place in hell for Judas? As far as I could see, he had no choice in anything, if he chose differently the religion wouldn't exist. Anyway, when the priest questioned me I answered everything right and he was proud of me, right up until he asked if I was ready to be confirmed as a Catholic, and I said no, because I didn't believe any of it.

In the world I live in, my cats and dog are people. I speak to them as I would to you. Around my home I know a lot of the lizards, birds and other critters as people, too. They think, have emotions, have what Christians call souls. I offer them the same respect and acknowledgement as I would any two-legged. There's a hummingbird who hangs out with me in the gardens sometimes, I'll miss that one when it dies, as well as a little bird who's an absolute blabbermouth, that one's funny. I have several old trees to whom I pay respect. If I hang around them for another twenty years, they may deign to notice me back, but trees are very long-lived and are very slow to make friends. Not everything functions or thinks on the same level, nor are the concerns of a cat the same as the dog's or mine. We are not equal at all, and that's ok.

I was taught and shown that each of us has a particular power. By us I mean humans, deer, ants, birds, cats, dogs, etc. In western terms you'd say the power resides at the species level: we humans can build house and skyscapers, but try to keep the ants out. You can't, and that's their power. Powers must be recognized and respected. I absolutely hate ants, but I respect them. Unfortunately, while those aggravating sisters think, build, and seem to have feelings, they are so alien I've never been able to find a common ground with them and negotiate a peace, so we remain at war. They raid and I kill them, neither of our powers sufficient to protect us, one from the other. People have individual powers, too, and by people I mean everything that is conscious, not just two-leggeds.

When I grow stuff in my gardens I talk with my plants and they talk back in their own ways. They think and feel on their own levels, too. Lizard talk is mostly gestural, those guys tend to be argumentative, they have funny little thoughts.

I suppose I should define talk. My dogs and cats are fairly fluent in understanding English words, and I'm pretty proficient in interpreting their speech. Usually when I meet a new animal I try to speak to it in it's own tongue, there are dialects, but mostly they speak similarly enough to work out greetings and assurances. When I speak with the birds I use whistles and chirps, I'm lousy at it, but they appreciate the effort. Plants respond to....I guess it's the energy of your spirit (the actual physical energy, not metaphysical here), talking is for me, mostly, to help shape my spirit to interact with theirs. "Talking" isn't just done with human words and constructions.

There's one of the major differences in our worlds. When I open my eyes each day I greet a world that requires my acknowledgement and respect in far greater detail than yours, most likely; a world in which I must walk with more respect than I see others give it.




posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 03:30 PM
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"Reality doesn't bite, rather our perception of reality bites."



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 04:09 PM
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reply to post by apacheman
 


How can I learn to live like you?
Can I talk to animals and plants AND live in the world I currently live in now?



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 04:24 PM
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reply to post by sumgai
 


Of course you can, it's not genetic.

Begin by accepting the dignity of others. When I was little and would break branches off tree or pluck flowers, my grandmother would ask me if I had asked permission of the plant first, and if I had thanked it properly afterwards. Before you can talk with anything or anyone you first must acknowledge their personhood and right to respect.

She taught me how to still my spirit, to quiet my mind so I wouldn't betray myself to those I hunted. Other things see and feel with other senses and use the same senses in different ways than we do. So after you manage to wrap your mind around accepting animals as individual people, then you have to still the chatter in your mind and focus on trying to communicate with them. They live in a vastly different world and have many different concerns from yours, so the trick is finding common ground.

It's easier if you have a pet. Try having a conversation with a critter you know somewhat first, and don't expect them to answer you in english, that's your language, not theirs. They will answer you, if they do at all, in their own language, using their own mental constructs, voicing their own concerns. You'll be disappointed if you try talking politics with them: they don't care about our internal dialogues. It's just like meeting a stranger human, talk about the weather, hunger status, simple things that can cross culture/species barriers to commonalities.

It also takes far more patience to get them to accept that you are actually making the attempt and it isn't a fluke wierdness on your part.



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 05:45 PM
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Great post, apacheman. Star and flag, for sure.

I really did laugh out loud, not just that web-expression, at your confirmation interview story. You chose well, I think. I was raised Catholic, left pretty much the same age that you did. No regrets on my part.

I get along pretty well with animals, warm-blooded ones, and some of the others, too. It is obvious, I think, that they have what Christians call souls. Whatever it is that I have, anyway. Many of the wild woods dwellers can be very good company, too, and will meet you half way when you try to make contact. More than half-way, often enough.

Bottom line is that I am not so sure that you and I, personally, live in such very different worlds. At least not so far as these things are concerned.



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 05:48 PM
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reply to post by apacheman
 

I love your approach and philosophy on life apacheman, What you and your ancestors understand, is what so called advanced society has lost and is now trying to rediscover.

I have made friends with all life forms now and my feeling of being a part of all that lives is growing daily. It is odd or rather relates to a recent thread I wrote.

That your thread should appear today is typical for me.

Comparing notes, Does magic happen to you

Just this morning I went to sit for a while under an old willow tree in my paddock and I spoke to it for the first time and it's leaves rustled as if in acknowledgment. I

have so many stories to tell of my relationship with ants and bees. Honoring even the smallest of creatures brings with it a sense of peace and contentment.

This reality has taken over my life now and the fist step on that journey is to learn to respect all living creatures.

I am a songwriter, this is a verse from one of my songs


"There's a tree by the brook that was battered by the storm
but still it clings to life itself in any shape or form
although it's limbs are torn and it's heart lies bare
many years from now, it will still be their

Will it's ghost burn bright will it shine out in the night
will it's essence fill the universe, will it's spirit turn to light

I can feel the wind blowing over me,
and if I can feel the breeze I'm still alive."



There is much to learn about life, from life.

It is funny but I believe my dog learned to love the old willow tree before me but he sure has a funny way of showing his respect.



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 06:15 PM
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I pay some amount of attention to nature, so I think lately I've taken it for granted that other people do too.

But now I realize that it is not so: not everyone bothers to learn to recognize a bird by its call. Not everyone knows the names of the flowers (and it doesn't matter by what you call them, so long as you can recognize it when you see it) or the trees. Hell, far too many people know far too little about the world around them. I think this is why there is a gulf between the modern world and traditional native cultures.

Today in America, according to our pop culture, only scientists and nerds bother to learn facts about nature. Only hippies and radical Lefties care about the environment.

I fed the birds of my neighborhood today. Its cold and snowy here, and the only birds that make an appearance are snow-birds, blue jays, titmice, chickadees, and cardinals. I know it doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things, but I like knowing I've helped them through the bitter cold by providing a bit of much-needed energy.

I planted a bald cypress tree when I was in gradeschool outside my parent's house. It was just a twig at the time; now it is a towering presence in the yard. In the summer, light filters through its bright green pine-like leaves and makes a light shade beneath it. In the autumn, the leaves fall and leave a silencing blanket upon our grassy pathways.

It's nice to know I contributed to nature. Even when you search Google Earth, and see giant gaping holes in the jungles in South America, and the forests of the Pacific Northwest, and you know that all around you, people who never understood how important nature really is are trying to destroy it.

[edit on 11-1-2010 by AshOnMyTomatoes]



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 06:21 PM
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This is a beautiful thread. If ever I'm done, depressed or going through something I'll refer to this thread.



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 06:38 PM
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reply to post by apacheman
 


I agree with you on so many points apacheman. I communicate with my dogs using only hand gestures. Each hand gesture has meaning to my dogs and myself. I communicate with flowers using music and thought. Each of us being vibration and sound its a given that plants, animals, also can communicate with us in their own vibration.
I learned as a child to look into a mirror until I could see nothing. Once I learned to see nothing in the mirror, I could see and feel everything outside of myself as well as inside of myself. The colors of music are the most beautiful. I am personally most grateful and in tune with water. I teach children these things until I'm told not to. There are other gifts I'm grateful for but the list is long and no doubt of no interest to others. Thank you for your post apacheman.



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 10:12 PM
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I see my "pets" as friends that live with me, sometimes I even swear my cat Gizmo was a human at one point. The way he looks at me like he wants SO badly to talk and tell me what he wants. I also have a bunch of ball pythons and they have awesome personalities! I have about 10 and they are all different, some are very social and want to be around you and others like their privacy. It's always been a dream of mine to talk to all them and now I'm really going to work on this!

I live in upstate New York and I moved here when I was 15 from NYC and now I can never go back to city living. I love being around nature too much. It heals and brings balance in my life!

AWESOME post! S&F!!!!



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 08:24 AM
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Yep ... awesome post indeed ApacheMan!!


Thank you for reminding us of our place in this world and that Spirit dwells within every living creature - yearning for the oneness that we all are.

Much deserved S&F



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 08:57 AM
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You know, I was musing about this SAME THING a day or two ago!

We all have different perspectives on the world, and the animals that live in it.

Every one of us. One person may live in their own world, in their own reality, thinking that everything is good and fine in the world. But in another reality (not pointing out any ATS members out), the place they live in is in danger and they feel the need to move to Canada and stock up on weapons and ammo.

So yes, by saying that each person views their life different, we all literally live in different realities. Their PERSPECTIVE on things change the very fabric of life (reality).

[edit on 12-1-2010 by fordrew]



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 09:15 AM
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reply to post by apacheman
 


I am Seminole/ Cherokee and Irish.
Raised by my Seminole Grandmother and brought into manhood by my Cherokee Grandfather.

Mother was a born again baptist.

Everything I was shown (and know to be true) by my grandparents was called Satanic and Devil woship by my mother and church.

I stay to the traditions, I am with you we are all family the Winged, Star Nation, Standing People, Stone Men, FOur-Legged and the 2 leg's. We are all relations. Matter of fact the next Moon Grandmother is "Talks with Relations" (starts the 16th)

I feel you in this post.

The Great Spirit speaks with us and always has. Most have fogotten how to hear and feel lost and left by "god". I / We know different.

Peace love and joy to you! Your not alone.



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 09:19 AM
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Thank you for sharing that Apacheman. Its refreshing to hear from others who view life in a similiar way to myself.

May life continue to talk to you in such ways.



"There's a tree by the brook that was battered by the storm
but still it clings to life itself in any shape or form
although it's limbs are torn and it's heart lies bare
many years from now, it will still be their

Will it's ghost burn bright will it shine out in the night
will it's essence fill the universe, will it's spirit turn to light

I can feel the wind blowing over me,
and if I can feel the breeze I'm still alive."


Thank you Kennyb72 for sharing your words.

Good Luck with the songwriting.


Peace.



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 09:45 AM
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reply to post by apacheman
 


Your world mirrrors my world, its refreshing to read a like minded members perspective. Thankyou



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 09:47 AM
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Beautiful and inspiring post. I live in the Northeast and have Woodland Indian ancestors mixed in with my Celtic and Northern European ones. Seems like the Native American genes have always dominated. I was happiest when living on a back-to-the-land farm some years ago and being close and connected to the physical world. Now I am unhappily living in suburbia and hoping to get back to a more rural setting in a few years.

Yes, I have plants and animals here but the woods are not the same. My childhood was spent in this area 50 years ago and the woods were magic back then. Now they are all developed with houses and businesses. I morn this loss every day. I still can wander them in my dreams though, and I do all the time.

Dogs respond to thoughts. I have trained my dog by showing him in my thoughts how he can do things. He is a little guy and I showed him how to get up on the bed by sending him" my brain movie' of this. It works. But dogs also can pick up your worries and intents to do things. They know it is time for a walk because they read your mind and are ready before you can even ask.

[edit on 12-1-2010 by twicewidowed]

[edit on 12-1-2010 by twicewidowed]



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 10:00 AM
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I've always been different. People have always thought I was odd or weird. I have a native American ancestry, and I've always felt like my native American kin, if I could meet them today, would not think I'm an oddity at all.

Ever since I was a little girl, I always had a great sensitivity and respect for all the living being around me. I was very aware of life and my impact on it.

Even as a young child, whenever I would step on the grass, I was highly aware of all the ants and bugs I was killing. And I've always had a great admiration for ants in particular because how hard they work as a community to achieve goals. I always wondered how the blades of grass felt when I'd run on it or lay in a field to stare up at the clouds.

When I plucked a tomato off the vine, I always had this feeling that I was taking a brother/sister/mother/father. I believed the tomatoes (or other vegetable/fruit) were highly aware of their missing family member that I just plucked, and I always felt so sad and would apologize for my actions.

I've always believed that trees have feelings and that using a chainsaw to cut off branches or taking a leaf off a tree would result in the tree feeling the cut.

I didn't eat meat for much of my life because it hurt me so much to think about it. I wouldn't want someone to eat me (a living being) and nor did I want to eat other living beings which I've always believed were like me.

I do eat meat now, but not a lot. I've always had a hard time reconciling my sensitivity and awareness of life around me and how I impact life by eating it and squashing it. I have to live though, and I'm sure if I could have grown up with my native American ancestors they would help me learn how to cope with that.

I've always believed that plants and non-human animals communicate but in ways that are different that humans. When I was a young woman, I read an article in a science magazine that confirmed that plants do indeed communicate. I read about how fungus communicates chemically, and they communicate with other fungi in order to ensure survival.

I don't talk about my reality...my beliefs too much with others because most people think I'm a nut-job. My husband and a few other people don't but in general, society-at-large cannot relate to the things I'm saying. Some can, but most would just laugh at me or think I few loose screws.


Recently I've been terribly excited to read that science is starting to confirm some of the things I've felt and believed since I was a young girl, and I'll provide links to those articles in case you and others are interested in reading them.

If you want to learn how more about plants recognizing their siblings, read this Science Daily article also this one.

To learn more about how tomatoes are carnivorous and how they eat insects to survive by fertilizing themselves, read this
Science Daily article.

Here's a little part of a science article in the New York Times that gives more information about plants that most people would find quite surprising:

“Plants are not static or silly,” said Monika Hilker of the Institute of Biology at the Free University of Berlin. “They respond to tactile cues, they recognize different wavelengths of light, they listen to chemical signals, they can even talk” through chemical signals. Touch, sight, hearing, speech. “These are sensory modalities and abilities we normally think of as only being in animals,” Dr. Hilker said.
Source:

Here's one more snippet from that New York Times article which confirms how plants feel and communicate even though we may be totally unaware of it:

Just because we humans can’t hear them doesn’t mean plants don’t howl. Some of the compounds that plants generate in response to insect mastication — their feedback, you might say — are volatile chemicals that serve as cries for help. Such airborne alarm calls have been shown to attract both large predatory insects like dragon flies, which delight in caterpillar meat, and tiny parasitic insects, which can infect a caterpillar and destroy it from within.
Source:

Thank you, apacheman, for taking the time to make others aware that not everyone has the same reality. You are very fortunate to have been able to grow up with your native American kin and learn their ways.



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 12:21 PM
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When I read your post, I first thought you were one of these weirdos who claim being aliens reborn on Earth or something like that.
My bad.
I do understand what you say, and feel the same way. Actually, I'd rather say that I know I do belong to Earth, to THIS world, despite what other people have made out of it.

"They stole my world,
They sold my world,
And my eyes only see desertic infinities,
As my heart cries the loss of these antical beauties.
Where is the magic ? I lost it -
Wrapped it, and sold it,
And my flesh suffers, and my eyes cry
To see I'm the only one know this tragedy.

They stole my world !
They sold my world !
Can you hear it ?
Are you deaf to the cries of your Mother Earth as you're assassinating it ?
Of course, you can burn rock, rock will still be there,
Of course, you can poison the river, the river will still flow here
But the sould has allready gone away,
And life is only too used to existing to fade away.

They stole my world,
They sold my world,
And human was sacrified to truth's quest,
As friendship and love were giving away their last secrets.
The world lost its last mysteries,
Turning dreams into real life memories,
And man is no more than a big brained monkey :
How fair is, to all knowledge, the key!

They stole my world,
They sold my world,
My friendships are broken,
My loves long forgottent,
In a world in which nothing matters but possession,
We're only to be hindered by our passions.
And on the day the world will be rationnalized,
All souls will have died.

They stole my world !
They sold my world !
Here am I, alone, stranger in my own home,
Yet hindered by everything that is not my own,
Wasn't there a time of unity,
Brothers, sisters, all members of a same familly ?
The familly of our Mother Earth,
All cousins, on all Earths !

They stole our world, they sold our world !
But let's not despair : hand in hand, let's pray, let's get back our world !"

This is a translation of a poem I wrote (I'm french, if you can read french and want the original version, just u2u me). I tried to keep the rhymes. Well, let's say I did my best. Anyway, it represents how I feel.

Also, there is some interresting point I recently noticed. I'm of arabic and berberian (the former northern african people, before the arabs came) origin, and many of the ancient tales from that culture start with : "At the time the animals spoke". Also, in many other cultures, there is a myth of an ancient golden age in which humans and animals communicated.
And now, they seem to be silent.
Well, I "have" a cat (or live with a cat
), and it does speak. Of course, as you said in the OP, I don't debate about politics with my cat. But, for day to day needs, we perfectly understand each other. I understand when she says feed me, I love you, hey stop moving I was asleep, can't I just get into that blanket (etc) ? And she understands when I tell her I'm about to leave home, when I'm going to give her food, when I scold her, etc. So yes, my cat speaks with me.
Animals did not stop speaking, we stopped listening to them. And I guess it goes the same way for plants, for the whole world.

Apacheman, you DO belong to this Earth, but to what it was meant to be, never to what it became.

[edit on 12-1-2010 by Jalis]



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 02:26 PM
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Hi apacheman,

I feel the same as you and always have. But for me it seems that it is a genetic memory rather than anything to do with upbringing. I too chose to stand down from taking the comunion because I do not belive and out of respect for those who truly do.

I have a small amount of both cherokee and sioux in my blood but I feel it as if that is all that I am. I feel a longing to reunite with that particular part of my ancestry it resonates with me in a very special way. When I was very young I used to automatically talk to everything often in my mind but also out loud. In my view even inanimate objects have spirit. Stones, furniture, walls everything has a spirit and soul and memories and the ability to comunicate.

Nice thread but I don't belive you and I live in different worlds just very different environment.

lova and light




posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 03:13 PM
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reply to post by apacheman
 




Differences in our realities: you don't live in the same world I do


I have been reading and rereading this post since earlier when it appeared... and you know what? I think you are wrong.

You live in the exact same world as everyone else. The difference is in interpretation.

I agree that western culture has messed up a lot of things but, still and all... what you see each morning is not beyond the eyes of anyone else who looks.

I appreciate your vision and agree with much of your assessments. But still and all... we are only different in how we view the very same things.

My mornings... when weather permits, is a walk through the woods on my property while drinking some tea. We feed the deer with corn in the winter as we do the birds nd other critters. We have a female opossum who calls our recycle bin a feeding station. We have a number of deer, squirrels and chipmunk-types who stay close because we don't allow hunting on our property.

We prefer friends rather than cheap dinners... but that is not to say that the world around us agrees.

My only sin is that I am male, over 50 and of European decent.

I think we should be a little less judgmental of those who are different and a lot more moderate in our daily lives. If we were, then we wouldn't need government and politics to tell us what was rightto say and do.

Cheers



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