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Global Warming, Is it Really Happening?

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posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 02:13 PM
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reply to post by Itop1
 


You are right. A few years back I believed that mankind could possibly affect the climate, as I partially believed the claims in this same website....and then I did my own research and realized it was nothing more than a scam to control people, and even to help on the "depopulation" goal that the elites have in mind for us.




posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 02:14 PM
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reply to post by Itop1
 


"Facts", as you so loosely toss the term around, have to come with some sort of information behind them. Not simply capital letters. Whether its real or not manmade or the gods, there is not one area of this that is a fact.
We here at ATS have hijacked the term "fact" to represent the relative strength of one owns opinion.



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 02:15 PM
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Check this graph out

This clearly shows, ever since 1900, we have had periods of warming and cooling, this is something natural!






I will also add some additional information, also my last for tonight....
The earth today is not the warmest it has ever been. Global temperatures were as much as 2 degrees centigrade warmer more than a few times including the Medieval and Roman Periods

Warmest years in the USA from 1900 to today according to NASA
1934 1998 1921 1906 1931 1999 1953 1990 1938
1939

five of the ten warmest years since 1900 were before 1940!
the warmest decade was the 1930s

Global temperatures declined from 1945 through 1979, yet his was a period of rapid industrial expansion and increasing CO2 production throughout the world. If CO2 and temperatures are linked, why did temperatures fall?

year of continental record high temperatures:
Europe 1881
Australia 1889
South America 1905
Oceana 1912
North America 1913
Africa 1922
Asia 1942
Antartica 1974


i have huge masses of information, and if you do a little research you will sone TRULY understand whats going on instead of being blind, like locked in a pitch black room with a little man stood in the corner telling you where to walk, at the moment hes walking you right off a cliff, time to turn the light on i think.

[edit on 11-1-2010 by Itop1]



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 02:23 PM
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nice graph i just wish it was a little more clear



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 02:30 PM
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The answer to that question is no.

Anthropogenic global warming is another fraudulent Government policy. It's a dumbed down policy (so the whole world can buy into it) that's polluting our intelligence through constant repitition in the mainstream media and other unreliable sources of information.

Debunking the global warming farce can be simplified into one short sentence:

The earth has been cooling for nine years...

One or more contradictions = not the absolute truth or a flat out lie.

In this case, anthropogenic global warming is a flat out lie. Basic steps of logic. So don't sit on the fence with this one, it IS a real conspiracy and it IS a lie. Why? Follow the money trail that's probably a good place to start.

Don't forget what Government's are actually there to do

latin Govern - to control/guide Ment - the mind/intellect

It's not their job to tell you the truth. They tell you the truth you're meant to believe. When you don't believe their truth you have the makings of a conspiracy.

In this case the Government wants you to believe anthropogenic global warming exists so you can buy into the various policies that are coming into play that ultimately work their way into the pockets of the wrong people for the wrong reasons.



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by BigfootNZ
 


You claim that people are just on either side but noone is trying to fix the problem of Climate Change?.. Doesn't that put you on the side of the people who claim we are affecting the climate?

BTW, where is the evidence that we have caused Climate Change to get worse?


[edit on 11-1-2010 by ElectricUniverse]


You don't have to be a brain surgeon to know you don't poop where ya eat. Whether we are a cause of anything, or not I am pretty positive no ones helping the issue. Sure they fudge numbers, maybe its not as dire as they say, but they didn't fudge everything, again it does not take to much to see, you put garbage in you get garbage out.

Now as for cooling verse warming, warming and the melting of the ice caps changes the environment and causes cooling. Causes disruptions to the natural flow of heat through the water currents. I think we all know that.

blogocrats.com...
www.timesonline.co.uk...
current.com...
www.awitness.org...

and you know what sucks even more, the colder it gets, the whiter it gets, and it reflects heat back out into space, causing even further cooling.



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 02:42 PM
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the hole in the ozone above South America also has fluctuated throghout the worlds history, now just because its big, everyone says deforestation is the cause, but we dont have hard facts



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 02:43 PM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by BigfootNZ
 


You claim that people are just on either side but noone is trying to fix the problem of Climate Change?.. Doesn't that put you on the side of the people who claim we are affecting the climate?

BTW, where is the evidence that we have caused Climate Change to get worse?

You are making your own conclusions without any evidence to support that conclusion.

[edit on 11-1-2010 by ElectricUniverse]


Its my own pure opinion of course (hey I have a memory, i do know what it was like climate wise in my own country 2 decades ago as a child, its changed no doubt about that), and yes I do think we have some effect on the environment... I mean how can we not?, where the largest group of civilization the earths ever accommodated, our environmental impact the last century has been huge, wide spread deforestation, millions of tons of chemicals both natural and non naturally occurring spewed into the atmosphere... how can something like that not effect a self contained system like the earth? Heck my own country gets covered by that giant hole in the southern ozone layer regularly, I lived through the period as a kid when they started noticing the changes and began recording its expansion. and when they started to do something about fixing it through the reduction of CFC's or at the least slowing it, at least people recognized the effect mankind had on environmental areas in that regard back then.

As to me being on the climate change side... im not, im on both sides, i believe man has/is causing an impact, and I believe its also part of the natural cycle, and we cant remove all impact mankind has since as a species we need to exist. Thats what my bible thumping comment was about... it seems there is no 'grey' area in the public debate both sides scream the extreme... your either for or against one or the other, im from the grey area.

To me can you honestly look at areas of the world with smog, human induced desertification due to extensive over farming, over fishing, huge industrial factories producing goods we dont need, rain forests being destroyed to grow beef and palm oil and not think... we're doing this all wrong?.. irrespective of the 'truth/falsehood' of global warming or not?

By 'fixing it' I mean the damage we are or could be doing... why take a risk, why take a 'Kill em all, let god sort em out' attitude to our existence... we are creating an environment for ourselves that isnt good (to say otherwise goes against common sense and observation), who gives a damn if its causing climate change or not we have a mess to stop and start to reduce regardless, or do you think man isnt causing environmental damage?... all that happens though is two fanatical sides of the argument just throw words and accusations at each other and do nothing else!.

'religously' global warming adherents... common senseless, blinder wearers.

'religously' global warming is a hoax adherents... common senseless, blinder wearers.

As for the evidence... im making my own conclusions from what i hear and read from both sides of the debate, how can i not make my own conclusions when both sides ram their evidence down my throat every day in the media, and why shouldnt I make my own conclusions from that 'evidence' and my own observations through out my life and my own ideals?.. im a human, an individual, this is my home, I am 'myself'... I gather by the anti 'own conclusions' attitude you seem to harbor you base your conclusions on what ever conclusions some other tells you?.. and if you do so then i take it by your stance your on the 'Global Climate change' is a hoax crowd?.. in which case your one of those on the two extremes.

I have my beliefs and my own conclusions... and ill live by them, at least if I do my own part for what i think of as the better I can feel some justification for doing so... even if it makes no real impact in the long run.

Ultimately, screw Global Climate Change... lets just clean up our act... if it fix's the 'hoax' hurray, if it is a hoax we have a nicer environment hurray!... win/win. Poo slinging ideologies all day does nothing.

Edit:- I just realized its almost impossible to have a pro environmental stance without being thought of and labeled as a Climate Change believer... which just goes to show the nature of the Climate Change is a 'Hoax' side of the argument, its basically their anti anything remotely 'green'... and Im not directing that at you Electricuniverse, but more at the media channels that champion the various sides, which when you look at the 'flavor' of the media outlets basically sticks 'believers' as liberal atheists and the 'deniers' as conservative religious (they always bash the believers by calling them a 'religion', which is something the christian right seem to do with movements that scare them)... or at least it seems like that in America from an outsiders point of view.

Sigh to think something important like the environment has become nothing but a political and religious debate with a mask on for alot of us.

[edit on 11-1-2010 by BigfootNZ]



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 02:51 PM
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The weather is the weather. Not even the Japanese supercomputer (top 10) dedicated to it's modeling can get things correct 120 days from now. How the heck are a random group of climate watchers going to know what happens for the next 30yrs?

Al Gore and his global warming scare tactics are total BS. Carbon offsets are a way for him to make billions. Global Warming is about the same as a fashion statement in celebrity culture. Buy your hybrid, dump your batteries from your car in a landfill... idiots.

Man-made pollution might have a small bit to do with climate. What I tell people is to look at the Olympics. They shut down heavy industry for 45 days in Beijing and in 10 days, the air pollution was down over 65%. By the end of the games, it was on par with most midwestern cities. It is micro in comparison to the macro-scale of the planet.

You can't compare how things are in your little nook of the world with the entire globe. The atmosphere is a giant, entropic, variable. Morons that think they can predict with accuracy, what will happen over a 90 day period, are always wrong.



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by ShiftTrio

You don't have to be a brain surgeon to know you don't poop where ya eat. Whether we are a cause of anything, or not I am pretty positive no ones helping the issue. Sure they fudge numbers, maybe its not as dire as they say, but they didn't fudge everything, again it does not take to much to see, you put garbage in you get garbage out.


Again, you are confusing the environment with the global climate... The global climate makes the environment, but the environment doesn't make the global climate...

BTW, since the AGW proponents want to sequester mainly CO2, this will cause the WORSE environmental problem in the history of mankind, yet people like you want to side with the scammers?.... even after finding out that they had to rig the data, etc and that their claims are a SCAM?....

You are claiming "they didn't fudge everything"?... They had to rig the data, hide, and even delete data, they had to use different methods to discredit those who doubt AGW, and they even talked about changing the peer-review process if necessary to keep out of journals any evidence that refuted their claims, and they did all this in order to keep their scam going... yes they did fudge everything...

Again you need to learn the difference between the environment and the global climate.



Originally posted by ShiftTrio
Now as for cooling verse warming, warming and the melting of the ice caps changes the environment and causes cooling. Causes disruptions to the natural flow of heat through the water currents. I think we all know that.


Which is a NATURAL occurrence... it has nothing to do with us...

and sorry to tell you that links to blogs which are pro AGW, and links to news which back the AGW claims are not going to change the facts... They had to rig the data because nature wasn't playing along with them....among the other things they did, and are doing....


Originally posted by ShiftTrio
and you know what sucks even more, the colder it gets, the whiter it gets, and it reflects heat back out into space, causing even further cooling.


Does that have anything to do with the main claim by the AGW proponents that CO2 is the main cause of AGW?...

If CO2 causes the warming claimed by the AGW proponents, who even claim the Sun is not important in Climate Change and CO2 is more important, then we would be seeing warming, and not extremes in weather, or even extremes in the climate....

Atmospheric CO2 is not the cause of Climate Change...

Mankind has caused environmental problems, but have you watched the documentaries of what would happen without the intervention of mankind to local environments?....

Man-made lakes would dry up, and trees, and plants would dry up and many areas close to the deserts would be reclaimed by the deserts. This would affect the flora, and faune around the world.

The Everglades of Florida would grow inhospitable for many species without mankind, and it would cause two of the largest predators, the boa, and crocodile to fight for the few resources without mankind....

The same happens in many areas around the world...

Meanwhile mankind has caused some environmental problems, we have also helped many local environments,, and they only exist because of mankind.



[edit on 11-1-2010 by ElectricUniverse]



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 03:00 PM
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Ultimately, screw Global Climate Change... lets just clean up our act... if it fix's the 'hoax' hurray, if it is a hoax we have a nicer environment hurray!... win/win. Poo slinging ideologies all day does nothing.

[edit on 11-1-2010 by BigfootNZ]


Glad to see somebody's excited about fraudulent carbon tax.



[edit on 11-1-2010 by IrnBruFiend]



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 03:17 PM
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Originally posted by BigfootNZ
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Thats what my bible thumping comment was about... it seems there is no 'grey' area in the public debate both sides scream the extreme... your either for or against one or the other, im from the grey area.


Ok, so you have no proof whatsoever to back your claims. They don't want to sequester anything other than CO2, which again is needed by all life on Earth... how is that going to solve anything, or fix anything?...

BTW, the Earth is NOT self contained, and it is NOT a closed environment....

The Earth, it's climate, and environment is affected by the Sun, and anything that happens to the Solar System, so how can it be a "closed, self-contained environment"? The awnser is, it isn't.



Originally posted by BigfootNZ
To me can you honestly look at areas of the world with smog, human induced desertification due to extensive over farming, over fishing, huge industrial factories producing goods we dont need, rain forests being destroyed to grow beef and palm oil and not think... we're doing this all wrong?.. irrespective of the 'truth/falsehood' of global warming or not?


That has NOTHING to do with the global climate... that is what is happening to the environment, and again the main AGW claim is that CO2 is the cause.... they aren't trying to sequester the other gases, or chemicals, they are focusing on CO2 ONLY.... and CO2 is NEEDED for all life on Earth....


Originally posted by BigfootNZ
By 'fixing it' I mean the damage we are or could be doing... why take a risk, why take a 'Kill em all, let god sort em out' attitude to our existence...


You talk about both sides being "religious advocants" yet you yourself have no proof for your claims, you are "religiously advocating your own opinions"..

I am not "religiously" advocating anything, what i am saying is backed by evidence. if you want to find some of that evidence just look at some of the threads I have created which have tons of research that shows why I know AGW is a scam...


Originally posted by BigfootNZ
As for the evidence... im making my own conclusions from what i hear and read from both sides of the debate, how can i not make my own conclusions when both sides ram their evidence down my throat every day in the media, and why shouldnt I make my own conclusions from that 'evidence' and my own observations through out my life and my own ideals?..


I never said you can't have your own "opinion", but your "opinion" can be wrong, more so when you have no proof for your opinion.


Originally posted by BigfootNZ
and if you do so then i take it by your stance your on the 'Global Climate change' is a hoax crowd?.. in which case your one of those on the two extremes.


This claim of yours tells me you are on the side of the AGW proponents you know why?..... NO ONE has claimed "NATURAL Climate Change" is not occurring.... What we are saying, and we have tons of evidence, is that AGW is a SCAM, and atmospheric CO2 is in fact benefitial.



Originally posted by BigfootNZ
I have my beliefs and my own conclusions... and ill live by them, at least if I do my own part for what i think of as the better I can feel some justification for doing so... even if it makes no real impact in the long run.


See? you are basing your conclusions on "belief" hence you are on the "fanatical religious" side...

And sequestering atmospheric CO2 "just because it feels good" sorry to tell you is just plain naive, and wrong.


Originally posted by BigfootNZ
Ultimately, screw Global Climate Change... lets just clean up our act... if it fix's the 'hoax' hurray, if it is a hoax we have a nicer environment hurray!... win/win. Poo slinging ideologies all day does nothing.


if you are siding with the AGW proponents on the "need to sequester atmospheric CO2" you will certainly be "screwing with the global environment.

What needs to be done is not allow China, Russia, India, etc to continue their pollution, i am not talking about CO2, but the real pollutants in smog, and the chemicals they keep throwing into our oceans.. The west does it less, but anything wrong done by any company needs to be cleaned up by that company.

However, this is not what the elites, and the AGW proponents want. They are going after atmospheric CO2 because ALL life needs atmospheric CO2 and ALL life exhales, and uses atmospheric CO2 so if you put laws against it you can make billions from it, which is exactly what is happening.

Again, you talk about "Poo slinging ideologies all day does nothing" yet that is exactlywhat you are doing...

If you want to sequester atmospheric CO2 because it "feels good for you" you are backing a religious fanatical doctrine that will cause the worse environmental problem in the world.



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 03:23 PM
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Global Warming Is Real, dont you all know that? you all are a bunch of conservative christians



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 03:25 PM
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Originally posted by xmrexilex
Global Warming Is Real, dont you all know that? you all are a bunch of conservative christians


have you ever, picked up a book?, looked on the internet? or watched the news?

i suggest you give it a try



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 03:46 PM
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Originally posted by ShiftTrio

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by BigfootNZ
 


You claim that people are just on either side but noone is trying to fix the problem of Climate Change?.. Doesn't that put you on the side of the people who claim we are affecting the climate?

BTW, where is the evidence that we have caused Climate Change to get worse?


[edit on 11-1-2010 by ElectricUniverse]


You don't have to be a brain surgeon to know you don't poop where ya eat. Whether we are a cause of anything, or not I am pretty positive no ones helping the issue. Sure they fudge numbers, maybe its not as dire as they say, but they didn't fudge everything, again it does not take to much to see, you put garbage in you get garbage out.

Now as for cooling verse warming, warming and the melting of the ice caps changes the environment and causes cooling. Causes disruptions to the natural flow of heat through the water currents. I think we all know that.

blogocrats.com...
www.timesonline.co.uk...
current.com...
www.awitness.org...

and you know what sucks even more, the colder it gets, the whiter it gets, and it reflects heat back out into space, causing even further cooling.


Ever notice how as soon as you call out any of AGW fanatics with some truth, they shift gears into talking about pollution as if AGW and pollution were exactly one and the same?

And just because they are personally positive that something is going on is proof of exactly what?



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by centurion1211
Ever notice how as soon as you call out any of AGW fanatics with some truth, they shift gears into talking about pollution as if AGW and pollution were exactly one and the same?

And just because they are personally positive that something is going on is proof of exactly what?


Yep, they do that because they are unprepared, and uninformed, despite claiming the oposite.

When these people have been brainwashed, and indoctrinated to believe "we must do something now" they react as if their "feelings" are proof enough to do something which contradicts what they claim they want to do.

Notice that many new environmentalists, and old ones advocate the SCAM of the AGW camp, when the AGW camp is against CO2 which is needed by all green biomass of Earth. So when these "environmentalists" are agreeing with the AGW proponents they are in fact believing in something that is BAD for the environment.

Notice also that the AGW proponents, and their fans always point to Arrhenius, and how right he was, yet in fact he was only right about one thing.

Arrhenius himself said that increased levels of CO2 would make the Earth greener, and would also make trees grow stronger, and faster and would increase harvests around the world which could be used to feed the people of the world....

In that aspect he was right, but he was wrong about everything else.... Since his time atmospheric CO2 has almost increased to 100 and temperatures didn't increase to 2.5C -3C like he claimed it would...

[edit on 11-1-2010 by ElectricUniverse]



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 04:22 PM
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Clam down guys, this is what they want. You are playing right into their plan by fighting about this stuff. Let's try and find some middle ground, shall we?

Personally, I believe that human CO2 output has very little impact on Climate Change. This is the point that is debated so frequently and is causing division on the issue. We cannot solve the issue by denying either side of the debate has no merit. The Climate Change issue is one that entails mixing truths with half-truths, lies and distortions.

Nevertheless, I think it is an important step for the average human to show more respect to Earth on which we live. By this I mean taking personal responsibility not to litter and not to waste energy and resources if we don't need to.



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 04:37 PM
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Originally posted by centurion1211


Ever notice how as soon as you call out any of AGW fanatics with some truth, they shift gears into talking about pollution as if AGW and pollution were exactly one and the same?

And just because they are personally positive that something is going on is proof of exactly what?


Not quite sure what an AGW fanatic is, so I guess I am not one not even sure what the acro stands for, first and foremost I NEVER said anything causes anything. What I said was it doesn't take a brain surgeon to know if you add crap to our system it is not going to help it. That's it. You might think its natural, that's a fine argument and you may be correct. But we are not helping, and we need not to use some jerks fraud as an excuse. Its is a seperate point then what I was saying about Global cooling. The sites I pointed to were about, global cooling being caused by warming, not who causes the warming. Talking science not opinion.


Facts:
Ice Caps are melting
Changes in the gulf stream are happening
Gulf streams brings heat to northern areas

Pretty simple, you can argue who's fault what is, or if there is any fault or not. Perhaps I should have been more concise with me response.

I was saying 2 different things,
1) We are not helping anything, and a lot of people use the climate fraud issues as an excuse NOT to be good stewards to the planet. (Not saying you, just people do and you know they do)

2) Global Warming CAN make global cooling happen.

Hopefully that clears up my position.



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 04:59 PM
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Originally posted by ShiftTrio

Originally posted by centurion1211


Ever notice how as soon as you call out any of AGW fanatics with some truth, they shift gears into talking about pollution as if AGW and pollution were exactly one and the same?

And just because they are personally positive that something is going on is proof of exactly what?


Not quite sure what an AGW fanatic is, so I guess I am not one not even sure what the acro stands for, first and foremost I NEVER said anything causes anything. What I said was it doesn't take a brain surgeon to know if you add crap to our system it is not going to help it. That's it. You might think its natural, that's a fine argument and you may be correct. But we are not helping, and we need not to use some jerks fraud as an excuse. Its is a seperate point then what I was saying about Global cooling. The sites I pointed to were about, global cooling being caused by warming, not who causes the warming. Talking science not opinion.


AGW = Anthropomorphic Global Warming (human caused).



Facts:
Ice Caps are melting

Someone else just posted "facts" showing more sea ice than in 2007.

Changes in the gulf stream are happening

Gulf streams brings heat to northern areas

They've happened before there were even people. What can we do about it?


Pretty simple, you can argue who's fault what is, or if there is any fault or not. Perhaps I should have been more concise with me response.


Yes, pretty simple that if humans are not at fault and don't have the technology to do anything about it, then why spend $trillions on the boondoggle of trying to fix it?


I was saying 2 different things,
1) We are not helping anything, and a lot of people use the climate fraud issues as an excuse NOT to be good stewards to the planet. (Not saying you, just people do and you know they do)


Perhaps a truism. Many more people are conscious and cautious with the environment - at least in the developed countries - than ever before.



2) Global Warming CAN make global cooling happen.


Based on what scientific evidence beyond that historically one has followed the other in a cycle? Does summer cause winter, or do they just happen that way as part of a natural cycle?


Hopefully that clears up my position.


Not really. Sorry, but it still sounds like you are just giving us talking points based on nothing more than you liked the way they sound.



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 05:06 PM
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Yes the world is changing, polar bears dont have enough ICE, sorry bears
ice caps are melting and other stuff, but thats not totaly indictive of global warming, this is one of the coldest snowiest winters on record for nebraska, i dont feel a lot of warmth
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