reply to post by endisnighe
everyone so far has brought me hypothetical examples and
utopia ideals without addressing the question of the OP.
Ok. I'll answer your questions.
Have you ever wondered why a flat tax
or fair tax is never implemented?
What tax rate do you feel is FAIR
Any amount that people agree to is fair. Whether that is none whatsoever, or any amoutn up to a full 100% or even assignment of labor by a central
organized body in exchange for access to services with no money involved whatsoever.
"Fair" is just a matter of the people involved all finding it agreeable.
and will reach this social utopia that you think is out there.
No amount will acheive this, because it is not quantity of dollars
that creates utopia. It is intent by the people involved. Whether there is
one or one hundred percent taxation, if the money is used for purposes other than acheiving utopia, utopia will not be realized. However, even if no
money and no taxation is involved at all, if the people involved all intent to acheive utopia, utopia is likely.
Would not making the first step, to these Utopian Ideals, be the realization
that the system of taxation needs to be made fair first? Or at least try
to eliminate it?
...generally speaking, I think "realization" would be a positive first step, but what is this "fairness" you speak of? Picking any arbitrary
number is not likely to acheive the results you're describing. If you wish to eliminate taxes, that's fine, but there can be systems without taxes
that are not particularly pleasant. For example, shackled slaves are not usually taxed.
Allocating money to solve problems is only a partial solution if the system needs a continual infusion of more dollars to keep the problems solved.
if you want to go there please give me steps
to take to get to this specific Utopia you postulate.
I could give you many possible methods. The one I described above leans somewhat towards ideal. So long as we exist in scarcity there will still be
incentive and desire for people to control and play power games with one another. However, with existing technology there are many ways in which
society could change in the direction
of such a utopia.
The keys are basically to make things so easily available that nobody is willing to pay for them, and to phase out industries in such a way that you
don't have to deal with "massive layoffs" causing people to beg for work.
Work is the manifestation of a problem
, not a solution.
For example, let's say that people in large quantities build private power generation for themselves. For example, imagine a local hobbyists in every
neighborhood who enjoyed building windmills in thier spare time. They build a few for themselves, maybe give a couple away, and help others who are
interested to also build their own. This becomes a massive trend, and before long self-generation of power is the norm, and the entire industry of
centralized power is gradually phased out.
Any industry that you can cause to become irrelevant because what it provides is readily available is a positive move towards utopia. But, it needs to
be done in a way that does not involve government mandate or being provided by some central authority.
All you need to accomplish for utopia is to make the things people want available to them at little to no effort. That can be done in stages, as
described with my power generation scenario, or all at once, as per the matter replicator scenario. But the objective is the same: eliminate work,
eliminate money, eliminate trade...eliminate scarcity
. Build a system whereby everything anyone wants is freely and easily available to
[edit on 10-1-2010 by LordBucket]