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Would You Accept Illegal Power If It Was Offered To You?

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posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 02:20 PM
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I have an interesting question for all of you members of ATS.

Would You Accept Illegal Power If It Was Offered To You?

What I am referring to here is the easy road to power but in order to get it you have to surrender your ethics, morals, and beliefs and basically become a sell-out to an Administration.

I am not referring to the Bush Administration, nor the Obama Administration, because this thread is directly related to a life experience where I was asked by a hospital Administration to do something that did not sit right with me at all and I passed the test in my eyes, but the hospital did not like it at all.

I used to work as a Security Officer in a hospital, and I will not name it, but was asked to do something I thought was highly questionable after a new manager came up after the Administration had fired our previous Security Manager for no other reason than money.

And the Security Manager being fired had to do with money because there were twenty-four other managers fired, simultaneously, six months prior to the event I will explain.

The new manager, a seemingly nice person, asked me to watch a certain nurse because she was reported to have been sleeping during the course of her shifts, multiple times, according to my new manager, no documentation to provide evidence to me, and I was asked to do it without assistance of other security, and as well not to ask around of the other nurses because she might find out she was being watched.

I was given two weeks to find her sleeping on the job and to report directly and only to my manager.

I asked about ten different questions so that I could define exactly what I was being asked.

Since I knew we had proximity badges, which would allow us through doors, I asked my first questions about this, why were those not utilized to track her location throughout the hospital.

My manager looked rather nervous that I knew how this system worked.

She lied to me, telling me that the system was not set up like this, and I know that's not true due to understanding the system is a test platform for the coming R.F.I.D./bio-chip implants.

My next questions was whether I could see the the nurses time-logs, time she clocked in and out.

A usual request, to corroborate information towards assisting myself in doing a more thorough job.

My other questions were along those lines but more or less just defining those questions better.

I was denied access to any further information which might assist me in furthering this investigation.

We were the only two present at this meeting as well, no documentation whatsoever to prove I was doing something at the behest of a supervisor, to cover my behind, and protect the process of investigation.

Now, I am someone who was taught to always do the right thing, strong ethics, strong morals, and strong beliefs, if you've seen anything of mine on ATS, you will understand I hold criminal actions by those in power in complete disgust.

I am as well someone who is extremely quick on picking up things when people are trying to get one over on me, or pull the wool over my eyes.

I have previously mentioned this story over on this thread, you can read more details there.

What Would You Do For A Million Dollars?

I am now however doing a thread specifically about this topic because I am curious as to what others might do in a similar situation.

I had been handed nothing more than a print out of a picture of the nurse with nothing written on it but the print out of her name, but nothing that could be traced back to my manager, like I said, no documentation whatsoever.

I began to do what I was asked, this being third shift, and I began thinking about different things I had heard throughout the hospital prior to this event, and remembering as well about the twenty-five managers being fired, not missing anything.

See, the nurses and some of the other staff, are Union, protected against wrongful termination.

I very quickly figured out through my own investigation that what my manager wanted me to do was find her sleeping on the job, or "find her sleeping" on the job.

See, I had noticed for quite some time, this nurse was never working in the same station night after night, and I had asked her about this one time, and her comment was since she was a senior nurse, she was allowed to "float floors", meaning switch floor assignments.

See, my manager had not known I usually begin asking questions, when I see things going sideways, or at least not in this instance she didn't.

When I notice patterns changing, I take strong notice, because there is always a causation for this, whether it is just a need for different shifts covered, or something deeper going on.

Would You Accept Illegal Power If It Was Offered To You?

I found out during the course of my investigation, through open-source intelligence gathering techniques, that the nurse was coming up for her union contract negotiation, and the hospital wanted to find a reason to terminate her, because being a thirty year veteran nurse, apparently she was coming up for a sizable raise.

I could have gone straight to their Union members with this, but did not.

This is when I decided I had been asked, to essentially, become a financial assassin for the Administration.

This would have more than likely lead to me getting a management position.

This is of course exactly why this new manager got into her position, because I put two and two together, and I ask questions because I love to learn things, especially how to improve, fix, or stabilize a bloated bureaucracy.

I had already done this quite a few times prior to this incident, when this manager had first come on board, and she had only asked me for advice on how I would change the process of moving psyche patients more quickly from the Emergency Room up to the psyche facility, due to the process taking forever, and she implemented about 95% of my recommendations.

My prior manager and the Security Sergeant had apparently been discussing that I was always trying to streamline things, because I saw through the flaws within the system as it was currently set up, bureaucracy is stale to me, and as well after a while when bureaucracy sets in, sediment sets into people's leaded bottoms, and apathy sets in and kills momentum.

By the way, I had recently heard, through various sources, since I am no longer employed there, that the Administration is going after her, because she knows far too many secrets.

When I reported in that I had not found the nurse sleeping on the job, and explained my process of investigating it, leaving out the details which would have alerted my manager that essentially I thought she was corrupt as Hell, she began screwing with my availability verses scheduling, which lead to an eventual termination of employment.

I could sue, and prove it, and get unemployment, but that's not what this thread is about.

It is instead about whether you would surrender your ethics, morals, and beliefs, to get power.

I know exactly how the system works, how to get power, both ethically and unethically.

I always choose ethics over becoming a criminal, always.

Divide and Conquer : Political Ideology of the Power Elite, Selling The Peace, War Is The Motive

I chose to be able to sleep and feel good about myself as a human, over becoming cut-throat.

Truth and Lies of 9/11 : Mike Ruppert, C.I.A. Drug Running, and Your Government

Would you make the same decisions I did, or chose another path?

False Flag Operator, Become Sheep-Dipped Or Wolf-Dipped, and Become A Puppet Dictator?

Would you remain a sheep, become a wolf, of be a shepherd, and lead the way by example, even if it was leading by example and walking out the door on an opportunity to become a powerful person?

In my humble opinion the easy road to power is the first step in the path towards corruption.

Do not get me wrong, if it was my business, or I was hospital Administration, I might have to make similar decisions, but I would have put that nurse in charge of training new nurses and opened a nursing school through a college in a collaborative effort to improve the community.

[edit on 10-1-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]




posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 02:23 PM
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I'd be a wolf.

It's unfortunate, but if power was offered, and I mean supreme power I would take it, use it for a day, and then give it to the people.

Most will say that's hard if not impossible to do, but truth is I am not a leader, I am a born adviser.

In response to this thread, and more deep thought, I would be very difficult IMO to give it up. I mean I came from a place of deep moral values and strong belief system as you did Spartan, yet with all that is wrong in the world, I think I would try to make those things better.

In the end however, having ultimate power, would make me no better than those who use it for evil. You become Jaded when people give you something for nothing.

~Keeper

[edit on 1/10/2010 by tothetenthpower]



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 02:38 PM
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I would like to come here and say "of course I would do the right thing and refuse!" But I don't know what I would do in that situation because it has never happened to me. I would seriously have to think of several things, including my almost 1 year old son and that fact that I have another baby on the way. The fact that my husband and I barely make ends meet now would also be a big factor. Would I murder someone or harm anyone for a sizeable amount of money? That is one where I believe I would say no. But would I sell out any other way to take care of my family? Probably.



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by angrymomma
I would like to come here and say "of course I would do the right thing and refuse!" But I don't know what I would do in that situation because it has never happened to me. I would seriously have to think of several things, including my almost 1 year old son and that fact that I have another baby on the way. The fact that my husband and I barely make ends meet now would also be a big factor. Would I murder someone or harm anyone for a sizeable amount of money? That is one where I believe I would say no. But would I sell out any other way to take care of my family? Probably.


Well, being a mother of one, with another coming, the question would be difficult for you.

I'm sure.

I was and still am single.

I was making $12 an hour as a Security Officer, at the time.

Each person is going to choose differently, of course, dependent upon their situation.

Yes, I most likely would have eventually been the person as well they had go after this security manager as well, seeing as their after her now, in order to cover their tracks.

I saw the hospital Administration acting politically, motivated via money.

So, I can see this as an allusion towards where I might have been if I were in politics.

I have done many things when asked by my bosses, this one to me though, was picking money over a person's life, she would have been terminated based upon my actions.

I'm heartless as stone cold rock, if it had been directly between her and I.

Meaning if she was going for the same job, I might have picked differently, but not to gain power.

To me, power is something you have to earn, not be a back-stabbing individual to get into, nor have it basically handed to you on a silver platter.

I understand many political ideologies, I understand many Government systems, and I understand many other things which have nothing to do with this particular thread, including the Art of War, Divide and Conquer, and the Intelligence Industry, but I have chosen to live as best a life as I can, without becoming corrupt.

That is in no way a judgment against you or anyone else's answers on here.

Every person has their own unique set of circumstances, their own life, and their own set of choices in life, so to each their own, and I wish you well.



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 03:12 PM
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Originally posted by tothetenthpower
I'd be a wolf.

It's unfortunate, but if power was offered, and I mean supreme power I would take it, use it for a day, and then give it to the people.

Most will say that's hard if not impossible to do, but truth is I am not a leader, I am a born adviser.

In response to this thread, and more deep thought, I would be very difficult IMO to give it up. I mean I came from a place of deep moral values and strong belief system as you did Spartan, yet with all that is wrong in the world, I think I would try to make those things better.

In the end however, having ultimate power, would make me no better than those who use it for evil. You become Jaded when people give you something for nothing.

~Keeper

[edit on 1/10/2010 by tothetenthpower]


That's just it though, tothenthpower, making the decision there was tantamount to myself feeling like I was committing treason against my own ethics, morals, and beliefs.

To Hell with the hospital's Administration, anyone can make the easy decision.

It is the hard decisions, the ones which affect not only you, but many people's lives that are the ones which show our character, which show our inner being, which show who exactly we are as a person when the chips are down.

I have never cared about gaining power, at least not through compromising my ideals.

I see power as something that takes responsibility to get to.

Like I answered to angrymomma, if it had been a competition against this nurse, I might have chosen differently, Hell, I am cut-throat when it comes to my own specific life and death survival.

If I was hanging off a cliff and my life was dependent upon cutting the rope of someone who was going to get us both killed, I'd cut the rope.

Survival of the strongest, but not for me doing something I consider would take a lack of ethics in this instance, not something that I felt would have been lying on Federal documentation, because I would have had to do a write-up of my findings to provide the evidence against the nurse.

In other words, commit not only a lie, but committing a crime, through documentation.

While I respect you for your choices, I hope you respect me for mine.

Nothing is as simple as black and white anymore, but varying shades of gray.

This world is one where people are supposed to pick gutting someone like a stuck pig, just to get ahead, and I find that as troubling.

[edit on 10-1-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 03:16 PM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


I most certainly have the highest respect for you Spartan, more so than most actually lol.

And yes I understand where you are coming from, if it were a life or death situation so to speak, then you would be a fool not to look out for yourself.

After all, the point of life is to live.

In your specific situation listed above, I would have done the same as you. Knowing you and your skill set there would have been hundreds of other opportunites that didn't require you to break your spirit in order to keep employment.

~Keeper



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 03:27 PM
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Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


And yes I understand where you are coming from, if it were a life or death situation so to speak, then you would be a fool not to look out for yourself.

After all, the point of life is to live.

~Keeper


The question begs to be asked; when one is a slave to the wage is it not a life or death situation already?

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Now to asnwer the OP's question.

Morals and Ethics are relative. Does the end outweigh the means?

If you could provide a betterment for society by way of a little scandal that may hurt a few is that a "good" or "bad" thing?

I tend to think it's a good thing, as even those that were hurt by the situation will enter a better situation in the end.

I must say, that I would probably be guilty of hurting a few along the way as long as I was sure the end result would be worth it.



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 03:39 PM
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what a messed up situation. Being offered to destroy one another for the advancement of yourself.

that's something i couldn't do, even if i was handed a million dollars.

I would rather get fired then stooping to a low level for financial or social gain. to me its unethical, and outright wrong. If you accept power, it can just be easily taken away.

what a messed up world we live in...

I am glad you made the right choice, but it eventually lead to your job loss. sorry to hear that Spartan.

I think you should of went to the union with this, and sued.



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 04:07 PM
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One of the most common places to find ill-gotten power and corruption is in your neighborhood church. Those who manage the treasury, sit on the church counsel, and otherwise administer the church bylaws are among the most corrupt individuals I have ever encountered, inasmuch as they abuse their power (and church finances) in the name of God.

I say this not as an atheist nor as an enemy of organized religion. In fact, I'm a member of the Lutheran Church — which is how I come by my piss-poor opinion of church bureaucracy and church government. Our church, in particular, is corrupt from the senior pastor on down.

The pastor himself is a spineless gutbag, an enabler, a two-faced, flip-flopping ex-stage magician who not only cuts & pastes his weekly sermons verbatim from the Internet, but who has the unmitigated gall to ask for a substantial raise every year. In return for his salary, he actually missed about 30% of the Sunday services in 2009, but he managed to make time for TWO cruise vacations to the Bahamas. His wife, a pretentious, prissing clotheshorse, took off for an additional vacation on her own to Argentina. I'm talking about vacations, not mission work.

The church counsel is comprised of "good old boys and gals" who eagerly scratch one another's backs, and who will readily overturn church elections, reappointing each other every year, defying the congregation vote — and always behind closed doors.

The church treasurer is a temperamental hypocrite who refuses to answer questions about the treasury, except to say, "We should all have faith that the money is in there"... Say what?!

Where does the treasury go? The church secretary makes $17,000 per year for typing and printing out the church newsletter (a 4-page, folded letter-size document) once a month — that comes to $1416 per newsletter. The church janitor makes $10,000 per annum — about $200 every time he walks through the door. One of the counsel-member's wives makes $7,000 per year for babysitting a handful of children for one hour during the Sunday worship service once a week (Let's see, that's $7000 for 52 hours work yearly); plus, this woman has no qualifications for handling other people's children. The pastor's wife is constantly throwing her own personal social events and billing it to the church treasury.

In short, this church's administration is guilty of nothing less than thievery, and they are coming to realize that they cannot afford necessary church expenses.

Now, what do my wife and I do for the church?

My wife is a professional senior technical writer for the software industry, and she lends her writing and organizational skills to creating multimedia Sunday school and confirmation classes that rank with the best business presentations you've ever seen in your life.

I'm a professional marketing artist, and I use my skills to advertise for the church, create mural-size backdrops for their various social gatherings, create illustrations and PowerPoint presentations for their confirmation and other classes, and generally make the church LOOK GOOD.

We've probably put in a couple of thousand hours per year for the church over the last two years.

We receive NO compensation for our services. Zero. Zilch. But that's because we do not EXPECT compensation — what we do is an absurd little something we call serving the Lord, and we gladly do it for free, paying for all materials out of our own pockets.

But this year we decided to throw them a little curve ball by researching and compiling a 30-page whitepaper analysis of their organization and expenditures, full of analytic charts and graphs as well as recommendations for saving the church from bankruptcy.

In short, we created a whistleblower exposé, and we formally presented it to their first counsel meeting of the year. This morning.

It was like lighting a match to a hornets' nest.

The pastor was red-faced and repeatedly sputtering "This is UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!" The treasury secretary threw his copy of the whitepaper across the room and stormed out of the meeting! Other counsel members were shame-faced, shaking their heads, unable to look us in the eye.

The upshot is that they're now trying to run us out of the church. Oh, yes, we received many phone calls afterward, about half from those who want us burned in effigy, and half from those who were cheering our audacity. Some of the congregation wants to split away now and form our own church.

Which is fine with me.

But first, we're sending our whitepaper to the Bishop, to let him decide what to do with the crooks in our midst. Who knows? The Bishop may be as crooked as the rest, but we're going to let him know that it's all out in the open.

So he'd better get off of his holy ass.

— Doc Velocity






[edit on 1/10/2010 by Doc Velocity]



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 04:16 PM
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I would take it, and then start using it against them.

That's exactly what many others are already doing and I 100% encourage people in power to weasel their nose into whatever they can just to screw over the real crooks at their own game of chess.



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 04:48 PM
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I would have questioned the voracity of the claims made by the manager about the nurse sleeping on the job. Then, I would have asked why you picked individually to conduct the investigation over others in the security department. Then, I would have asked if the manager has any personally dealings with the subject of the nurse, and if so, what where they? If in fact, your manager had personal dealings with the nurse, I would have refused the job assignment, because their is a conflict of interest in the investigation. Plus, why wasn't any written record made for such a request?

In other words, you were right in practically refusing the assignment, because the evidence was pretty shoddy to begin with. They were essentially asking you to spy on a particular employee for nefarious reasons, and as you put it, someone had an axe to grind with the nurse, because of her tenure.

So, in order to fire her to save a buck, they were willing to doctor-up a tale of incompetence on the nurse's part to do so. You did the right thing, and I would have done the same. I refuse to be a pawn for anyone, because I have to look at myself in the mirror everyday. Not to mention, by you being involved in the investigation, you would have left yourself vulnerable if things went astray. In other words, it would have been your word against your manager, and the manager would say anything with their clout to save themselves, and thus, sacrifice you in the process.

Now, in terms of accepting what is being offered with the question being posed in the thread, I would refuse. If it means I sacrifice, wealth, success, and social standing then so be it. I like to think of myself as being above board and a person of integrity. So, I would take the straight route rather than the crooked one.

[edit on 10-1-2010 by Jakes51]



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 05:04 PM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


Short answer? I think you made the right call. Ultimately, you have to answer to yourself and honour is a priceless commodity.

Look at it this way...ever try to atone to yourself? Personally, I'm tougher on me than I am on anyone else.



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 05:06 PM
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Originally posted by Namaste

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


And yes I understand where you are coming from, if it were a life or death situation so to speak, then you would be a fool not to look out for yourself.

After all, the point of life is to live.

~Keeper


The question begs to be asked; when one is a slave to the wage is it not a life or death situation already?

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Now to asnwer the OP's question.

Morals and Ethics are relative. Does the end outweigh the means?

If you could provide a betterment for society by way of a little scandal that may hurt a few is that a "good" or "bad" thing?

I tend to think it's a good thing, as even those that were hurt by the situation will enter a better situation in the end.

I must say, that I would probably be guilty of hurting a few along the way as long as I was sure the end result would be worth it.


Great post.

Yes, when we allow ourselves to become a slave to wages, we do indeed face that.

My question to you in how exactly do you see my change of path might have assisted the community at large, because I'm not seeing it.

All I saw within the whole exchange was a greedy Administration, looking to cut corners, and save money, while money was being wasted elsewhere.

Like I previously stated, it was a bloated Administration, I saw cost cutting ideas EVERYWHERE.

The manager, however, was interested in cutting throats, for the Administration, instead of cutting the bureaucracy down, which means a loss of talented and experienced staff, which to me would mean becoming detrimental to the community at large.

I'll be interested to hear your thoughts.

Whether we agree or not, this is a discussion, and not judgement on anyone.



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 05:14 PM
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Originally posted by ugie1028
what a messed up situation. Being offered to destroy one another for the advancement of yourself.

that's something i couldn't do, even if i was handed a million dollars.

I would rather get fired then stooping to a low level for financial or social gain. to me its unethical, and outright wrong. If you accept power, it can just be easily taken away.

what a messed up world we live in...

I am glad you made the right choice, but it eventually lead to your job loss. sorry to hear that Spartan.

I think you should of went to the union with this, and sued.


Yeah, it was messed up, in what was being offered, it felt like poisoned meat on a silver platter, while someone was holding a noose behind her back.

Yes, power easily gained, is easily taken away as well.

Thanks for the sentiment, but I'm not sorry I lost that job, there were all sorts of other things popping up, and while I can handle myself, I hate seeing others suffer because of choices that are not mine.

For instance a few Security Officer's who intentionally agitated psyche patient's.

Going to the union, was out of the question, at least at that time.

I was between the Union and Administration, I chose to walk the middle path right out of the dangerous situation, and knowingly chose to put the noose around my own neck.

I knew once I had reported no finding of her sleeping my boss would screw with me.

I had a little under two years, she was at least ten years senior, and as well she knew many secrets about the Administration, and they would have favored her.

I'll fight, politically, or otherwise, any day of the week, but I'll never take on a battle I believe is completely stacked against me, and a fast losing battle.

I love battles in which the playing field is more evenly matched.

In other words, if I had had more people behind me, I would have taken her out.

The manager, not the nurse, I've taken down managers who were corrupt before.



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 06:40 PM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


It all depends.

I come from strong morals as well, I enforce my own beliefs upon myself very much so.

However, why not take this 'unethical power' and use it against the system? Is there really an acceptable amount of civilian casualties when it comes to secret operations? I don't means death necessarily, but maybe job termination, maybe having to fire people who don't deserve it to keep the 'system' working correctly.

Well let's say I do follow through with firing these people, or helping fire these people who do hold some secrets and are due for a raise. Now I'm given more power. What do I do with it? Well on the outside I do what I'm expected to do, lightly as possible, but within the system I try and corrupt it and bring it down (we're talking about an already corrupt system that needs to be brought down), or I could try and take the system back to a place that is more fair - a system that works for everyones (but that really is not too plausible).

So to be honest, yeah I think I may take the power, but it depends on the consequences. I would never accept a job for the death of another I can tell you that.



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 06:53 PM
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Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas

Great post.

Yes, when we allow ourselves to become a slave to wages, we do indeed face that.

My question to you in how exactly do you see my change of path might have assisted the community at large, because I'm not seeing it.

All I saw within the whole exchange was a greedy Administration, looking to cut corners, and save money, while money was being wasted elsewhere.

Like I previously stated, it was a bloated Administration, I saw cost cutting ideas EVERYWHERE.

The manager, however, was interested in cutting throats, for the Administration, instead of cutting the bureaucracy down, which means a loss of talented and experienced staff, which to me would mean becoming detrimental to the community at large.

I'll be interested to hear your thoughts.

Whether we agree or not, this is a discussion, and not judgement on anyone.


In your situation I would concur. What you did was the most Just thing to do. It would have been useless to relieve her of her duties to further your career.

However say you could have somehow benefitted the community at large?



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 10:20 PM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 

Great thread idea!


Would You Accept Illegal Power If It Was Offered To You?
What I am referring to here is the easy road to power but in order to get it you have to surrender your ethics, morals, and beliefs and basically become a sell-out to an Administration.

I don't think this is a definition of Illegal power. It may be immoral, unethical, shameless and dirty, but not Illegal... (unless actual laws were broken.)


I always choose ethics over becoming a criminal, always.
I chose to be able to sleep and feel good about myself as a human, over becoming cut-throat.
*Would you make the same decisions I did, or chose another path?
*Would you remain a sheep, become a wolf, of be a shepherd, and lead the way by example, even if it was leading by example and walking out the door on an opportunity to become a powerful person?
In my humble opinion the easy road to power is the first step in the path towards corruption.

These are really good questions. As with all moral/ethical dilemma's though, they can only really be evaluated on a spectrum. There isn't a right or wrong/black or white answer. They are highly individual, highly subjective and dependent on a particular set of circumstances. Should any of those circumstances change, so to would the decision. We all live by our own set of morals/values/ethics. I think in a "perfect world" we would all choose to not sacrifice them for any reason, especially not for power/greed/profit (the typically maligned reasons) though I would argue sometimes unfairly maligned...

To answer the questions, I have to try to imagine myself in different situations. Would I sell someone out for a better lock on my career as you were faced with? Frankly, the answer is maybe. It all comes down to who would I hurt and what do I have to lose. Do I have options and what are they. Do I have a Plan B and a Plan C. Am I willing to lose what I have and if I am, who else does that loss affect. I have worked in the "corporate" world (HR) and it can get as cut-throat as you may imagine. I saw it often. I tried my best to stay out of the way but there were situations where that wasn't enough. There are times were it is screw, get screwed, or leave.

Just as there is a spectrum for decision-making and consequences (good or bad) there is a spectrum for "types" of people. I would argue that the world needs a mix of all types of people. There are those who are able and willing to do the "down and dirty" and there are those in the middle and there are those who serve a "higher calling" it's a balance and in order for progress to be had, for things to keep moving forward, there is a place for people who are willing to do things I'm not, just as I may be willing to do things others are not.




[edit on 11-1-2010 by LadySkadi]



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 10:38 PM
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I would NEVER accept illegal power if it was handed to me on a silver platter.

No kind at all, be it poliical, at work, snitching, absolutely NOT.

If it was presented to me in a legal, moral, ethical wy, i'd do it, otherwise NOT.

Thats all she wrote.



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 10:59 PM
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First I don’t believe there is any such thing as illegal power.

Power is simply power. Power is about mind over matter and shaping circumstances, situations and realities for an outcome of your own choosing.

Your own choosing being the key words there, utilizing free will is all about an application of power.

That some collectives for various reasons make rules in my humble opinion is not just entirely a waste of paper but the time people sit around making rules.

Rules are always about giving someone or a group an advantage over another.

I don’t care much for rules, or laws, to me they were made to be broken because in many ways I view them as things meant to break me, to tame me, to control me, to rob me of free will and how I would use that free will.

So I have made my own code, it’s a pretty simple code, do no harm, unless its harm aimed at evening the scales against people who use the fact that they can create the rules to do harm or take unfair advantage of others.

You might say I suffer from, though I would say I delight in the Robin Hood syndrome.

My code would cause me to do the following things in such a situation.

First I would go the nurse and confide in her I had been requested to do something in relations to her that I couldn’t quite understand while asking her to keep that meeting a secret.

I would want to pump her for why she thought she was being targeted and if she knew of others that had been or were also being targeted in similar ways. I would assure her she had nothing to fear in my actions and stick to that promise.

I would put what ever information she gave me under my hat and keep it to myself.

Information is power.

Then I would go over my superior’s head not to complain about the request but the amateur way that the request was made, for all they knew I could have been a whistle blower and told the nurse and the nurses union. (which in fact would have been partly true because at that point I would have already told the nurse.)

I would assure them that I have tremendous expertise in such matters and could carry them out discretely if in fact that was managements ultimate wish but once again because of the clumsy overture by my immediate superior I am just not real sure if that’s management’s real wish or some scheme of my supervisor’s own initiative to score brownie points.

Now at this stage I am either ferreting out the depth of the conspiracy or putting an end to it, after all I am offering to play ball, but ball as a real mercenary pro who can get the job done discretely without so many people being brought into the loop.

The manager is either going to confirm the conspiracy and like my initiative and spill more details or he is going to put a stop to the conspiracy right then and there and push the crap back down hill on my supervisor where it came from and thank me for bringing it to their attention.

Likewise the nurse has had a chance to double cross me and blow the thing open herself. If she hasn’t I have her trust and power over her. If this new manager my supervisors, supervisors likes my proposal I now have power over them too!

I am on a roll here!

Now assuming that the manager of my supervisor is in fact down with this conspiracy now I have more information to go back to the nurse, it’s bad, real bad; they really are out to get to you. They are looking to bust up your union. I can help; maybe it’s time you and I talked to the union rep.

Now when I meet with the rep I can find out just how long it’s been going on, and what the threat level is for them.

Chances are its bad; the Powers that Be love to bust up unions.

Yet politics are always involved in Unions so now is when I float my proposal to help the Union rep eliminate their rivals in the union by feeding them to management.

Yeaaahhh!

Of course they are going to love that idea, and tell me all about who they would like to eliminate and some things that can be used against them to eliminate them.

Now I have power over the entire Union in the hospital.

Now it’s time to go over the head of my supervisor’s, supervisor, to their supervisor and share with them the good news! I know the conspiracy within management is real, because two supervisors have already confirmed it.

Through my own initiative I have parlayed this into a position of power by corrupting the union itself. I can now confide just a couple of the choice details about the rivals that the union rep wants to eliminate, not all because after all information is power.

I still have to talk to the rivals of course to see who is prepared to do the most for me. At this point I should be one step below the actual Hospital Administrator. That’s the management level I will want to keep it on for right now, because they will need plausible deniability.

I will slowly dole out this information incrementally kind of like a tease, getting all the parties more and more excited about what I can do for them.

Of course in the meantime I will start coming in to work rather late and leaving rather early and keeping my own hours and furthering inquiries way up the line.

Where they will just be greeted with responses of well, he’s on special assignment, and pretty soon everyone will just be scratching their heads as to why I can pretty much come and go as I please and do as I please and go where I please.

This will make lots more people who work there at all levels start confiding in me.

Of course my real mission is just to turn up the drama factor, play all factions against one another and control how they are going to play themselves against one another by the flow of information that I control, since I at this time know every last little secret and then some everyone is keeping.

I will simply immerse everyone in the intrigue of it all while convincing the Powers that Be that any move at this point is premature, because more information will be forth coming. By this time I will have found out precisely what their ultimate dream goal is and convince them that I can deliver it by keeping it constantly dangled just in front of their face, but just a little bit beyond their reach by convincing them that I can not only deliver that very shortly but exceed expectations!

I have effectively turned the entire establishment into my little playground and fiefdom without actually having to produce anything or be responsible for anything, and get paid a lot of money in the process and work some obscenely short hours in effect doing nothing…

Cause I love sticking it to the man.

Power my friend is for the taking, what you do with it, how you maintain it, where you take it, well…

That’s another story!

You kids play nice with one another now!


[edit on 10/1/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 11:40 PM
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The United States has always been notorious for not only sticking it to the man, but sticking it to each other.

Everyone wants more and more and more. Give me the good old days (in other countries) when you kept your job for life if you wished. I still try to live by those rules.

Working in the United States has always been a joke, a game, lets see who i can screw to get ahead, etc.= Absolutely no job security. Lots of ars kissing, may work for awhile, then Karma seems to come back and bite ya in the butt.

What the OP has posted here, can equally be applied to government. How many of our military do you suppose would turn on their own people here and open fire just because they were told to do so, ? Their own people?
Well there would be a percentage, but the job is best left to the foreigners we have here now ready for combat. or the few, proud steroid pumped super soldiers, and those have been worked on...


Of course there are people for any situation who would gladly screw their neighbor just for kicks. Hell, i've had it done to me at a job i had, its happened to many people i know, ..

All the social skills one learns in school.....
Just a freaking joke.






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