Brace yourself ATS for the truth about Iraq (EXPOSED!)

reply to post by jonathan0220


Where do you come from? Where do you think you are? You state, "I am so sick of these conspiracy theories." This IS a conspiracy web-site, my friend! You seem to think you have all the answers. You need to go to the BigGov web-site...they have all the answers...Ha

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Originally posted by Aquarius1
Of course the reason we are there is "Oil", sad that our soldiers are dying over there so we can drive cars.

Thanks for sharing what you finally found out and we have known for years.

What an ignorant comment! It's not "so that we could drive cars". It's so that few people could get very rich. It has nothing to do with your or my right and affordability to drive a car.

It has everything to do about acquiring a valuable resource in an illegal manner and profiting from it.

In this case it's oil, in Afghanistan it's gas, or it could be diamonds from Sierra Leone.

Bottom line - you'd drive your car anyway, and you can heat your home too, but what changes is who gets rich while you're in the process of doing so.

And he who controls the resources, controls the world.

So, please stop spewing such uninformed rhetoric that you've been brainwashed to believe by communist-sponsored green movement.

Originally posted by double_frick
thank you for the pics!
its one thing to know these things and another thing to see the proof. :/

very sad.
i can't believe most americans find this acceptable. it makes me sick.

That's the way the world works.

People openly do not go to war on their own merit, and I'm talking about general populace. It's the comparatively few people who manipulate the masses to support a war.

The reasons for war that you and I read in the MSM are never the real reasons. What you read in print and see on TV has always been done in a way to gather public support.

Real reasons are for conspiracy nuts such as ourselves. We may or may not figure them out, but the gist of the reasons is the same: power, wealth, control.

The fact that this has been going on since mankind's beginning is good proof that no masses ever woke up, or have been able to do much about it.

Originally posted by TruthSeeker8300
reply to post by Stop-loss!

 

So where are the photos?

Did you read the initial post? It was littered with photos. I'm not sure how far they go in proving the point, but, his point is highly resonant with reality.

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry
reply to post by johnny2127

 

Okay, so then I agree with much of your post. However, it should not be in OUR interests to take the natural resources of other sovereign nations especially when IT DOES NOT BELONG TO US. There's a word for that, and I'm sure that you don't need to be reminded of what that word is.

Eventually, our greed will inevitably be the end of us and the Karmic wheel will shift in a far different direction.

I never said anything about taking their natural resources. I was talking about securing the oil for Iraq's best interests AND ours. Like I have said, it's Iraq's economic lifeblood, and without it, things get even worse than it is now. Additionally, assuming that this oil field stays in Iraq's control and does not fall to and of the neighboring countries, we will still have access to buying oil from them. Thats securing a source of oil for the US. They aren't going to take the oil fields, or own them. Its securing the oil fields for both Iraq, and therefore the availability to the US. And like I said, the US has to secure sources of oil. If today we said that we were going to start drilling and refining more oil from our own soil, it would take 10 years for one drop of usable oil due to the lag time in getting a workable oil field and refineries up to speed.

Originally posted by gandalph

Originally posted by Aquarius1
Of course the reason we are there is "Oil", sad that our soldiers are dying over there so we can drive cars.

Thanks for sharing what you finally found out and we have known for years.

What an ignorant comment! It's not "so that we could drive cars". It's so that few people could get very rich. It has nothing to do with your or my right and affordability to drive a car.

It has everything to do about acquiring a valuable resource in an illegal manner and profiting from it.

In this case it's oil, in Afghanistan it's gas, or it could be diamonds from Sierra Leone.

Bottom line - you'd drive your car anyway, and you can heat your home too, but what changes is who gets rich while you're in the process of doing so.

And he who controls the resources, controls the world.

So, please stop spewing such uninformed rhetoric that you've been brainwashed to believe by communist-sponsored green movement.

Wow...there's no need to completely send out the dogs on this guy...he has the general idea of what is happening and that's far more than the majority of Americans. I think his general statement was merely attempting to illuminate the idea that we are there for oil. He's on your side, so, just take it easy.

And in the case of Afghanistan, a pipeline is being installed to transport more oil. The other natural resource that we are stealing would include Afghanistan's very rich poppy production for heroin and other types of narcotics. Since the invasion, Afghanistan has again officially become the worlds top supplier of opium, heroin, and I might add that the American pharmaceutical companies utilize this opium to render pharmaceutical drugs such as lortabs, vicodin, oxycontin, and any other medical painkiller that requires opiates. So, we are again enforcing the legal and illegal drug trade through our efforts in Afghanistan.


[edit on 11-1-2010 by EvolvedMinistry]

I left the Army after 8 years because I felt just like Stop-Loss. I was even stop-lossed myself, but I didn't run off at the mouth and engage in behavior that might endanger myself or other soldiers.

He is in a combat zone, and part of a team of people who want to come home just like he does. He may not like his situation, but it's too late to call "objection" when you're in theater. This is a dangerous soldier. His behavior is putting everyone at risk. While conducting operations in theater is neither the time nor the place to start this nonsense.

In his position, it really doesn't matter if the war is legal or not. There are still real insurgents with real bombs and bullets that want him and his buddies dead. His duty is not to any country or flag, it's to the men on his left and right. He's #ing his battle buddies. Wants to be an individual and alleviate his own guilt by shifting his identity from "soldier" to "whistle-blowing true patriot". What a load. When you're a soldier, you're the lowliest form of life; EFP fodder, meat for the grinder. Own it. It is what you are. Suck it up and drive on.

We can talk when you have that DD214 in hand.

Originally posted by Jazzyguy

Originally posted by johnny2127
Can you really not understand how if those oil pipelines were not protected, it would even further destabilize Iraq and the region? So think of how bad things are now..... they would be worse. Oil is Iraq's economic lifeblood. If those northern pipelines are going, things get EVEN WORSE in Iraq. Less resources for both private citizens, companies and the Iraqi govt = even more reliance on the US = more troop deaths = more troops there = more Iraqi deaths...... and on and on.

I really cannot believe that you all read something sinister into protecting these pipelines. Its not what most or even a significant portion of troops are doing in Iraq. Its just one of the thousands of missions there. They must be protected. Its best for Iraq, its best for the US, its best for the region. Nothing good could come from not protecting those pipelines. Think and research before you speak people.

No, you're the one who don't understand my question actually.

Let me ask you the question again. Before the Iraq war, what happened in Iraq that warrants the US incursion into Iraq?
I also ask you what do you think is the number one reason the previous administration choose to go to war with Iraq.

I never read you asking me my opinion on why the US originally went into Iraq. Sorry if I missed it. Here is my opinion on why Bush really went into Iraq:

I think there was a much more grandiose intent in mind than most people are giving them credit for. I don't think it was as simple as oil, or WMD's or terrorism. Personally, I think Bush and those in his administration saw this as an expansion from the war on terror, to also bringing democracy to the middle east. I believe they thought this democracy would then spread to neighboring countries and eventually moderate the entire region. With a more moderate middle east, I am sure they summarized that they would have a more open trading partner for oil and natural resources, finally achieve peace with Israel, and marginalize and exterminate the radical Islamic terrorist element. I think they saw Iraq as the place to get a foothold for democracy in the middle east for the thinking I just briefly laid out. I think they truly thought WMD's would be found since every intelligence agency in the world thought they had them, and this would be a easy precursor to use for why they needed to go into Iraq. Little did they know that while Saddam was in fact pursuing WMD's, his military commanders and scientists were lying to him about the progress due to their fear of his reactions (this is fact). They thought it was a forgone conclusion WMD's would be found and it blew up in their face (no pun intended). Basically, they saw Iraq as a grandiose overall solution to the problems that have been going on in the middle east for generations, and at the same time securing the availability of natural resources.

The interesting part in my opinion, is that we will never know if they end up being right. Who knows how Democracy will be viewed and spread over the next 100-200 years. There will come a time in which this war in the middle east is a distant memory. Will democracy flourish and spread in the middle east at that time? Who knows. Either way, that the brief version of why I think the US really went to Iraq. Yes oil was part of it, but it wasn't that simple in my opinion. I think they had a grandiose, region altering philosophy.

Originally posted by johnny2127

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry
reply to post by johnny2127

 

Okay, so then I agree with much of your post. However, it should not be in OUR interests to take the natural resources of other sovereign nations especially when IT DOES NOT BELONG TO US. There's a word for that, and I'm sure that you don't need to be reminded of what that word is.

Eventually, our greed will inevitably be the end of us and the Karmic wheel will shift in a far different direction.

I never said anything about taking their natural resources. I was talking about securing the oil for Iraq's best interests AND ours. Like I have said, it's Iraq's economic lifeblood, and without it, things get even worse than it is now. Additionally, assuming that this oil field stays in Iraq's control and does not fall to and of the neighboring countries, we will still have access to buying oil from them. Thats securing a source of oil for the US. They aren't going to take the oil fields, or own them. Its securing the oil fields for both Iraq, and therefore the availability to the US. And like I said, the US has to secure sources of oil. If today we said that we were going to start drilling and refining more oil from our own soil, it would take 10 years for one drop of usable oil due to the lag time in getting a workable oil field and refineries up to speed.

With the current economic sanctions against Iraq, they receive very little for the oil that we have secured and utilize. China is the main recipient. In the late 90's after Desert Storm, we slapped Iraq with horrible economic sanctions that starved thousands. Clinton actually continued this policy during his "wag the dog" campaign to get the public to forget about Monica Lewinski. Once Clinton had a stronghold in that region, America and the U.N. developed what is know as the "Food for Oil" agreement that allowed Iraq to only use their natural resource to feed the starving. Although this program was supposedly terminated in 2003, the current war re-established new sanctions against their government that will not be lifted until our occupation has ended. Therefore, the Iraqis do not capitalize off of their own natural resource, they are forced to use it for minimal purposes that are closely scrutinized by America, China, Russia and the United Nations as a whole.

Just type it into your search engine...Food for oil, Iraq.
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by John_Brown


Keeping "your mouth shut" is what TPTB count on from youthful, scared mindless order-followers. They imply that talking to citizens will endanger the lives of the soldiers. Bunk! TPTB that sent you to an illegal war to rape and kill citizens of another country who never attacked us are who endanger the soldier. This "war on terror" is a "war without end". Silence is evil in the face of tyranny.

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry

Originally posted by johnny2127

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry
reply to post by johnny2127

 

Okay, so then I agree with much of your post. However, it should not be in OUR interests to take the natural resources of other sovereign nations especially when IT DOES NOT BELONG TO US. There's a word for that, and I'm sure that you don't need to be reminded of what that word is.

Eventually, our greed will inevitably be the end of us and the Karmic wheel will shift in a far different direction.

I never said anything about taking their natural resources. I was talking about securing the oil for Iraq's best interests AND ours. Like I have said, it's Iraq's economic lifeblood, and without it, things get even worse than it is now. Additionally, assuming that this oil field stays in Iraq's control and does not fall to and of the neighboring countries, we will still have access to buying oil from them. Thats securing a source of oil for the US. They aren't going to take the oil fields, or own them. Its securing the oil fields for both Iraq, and therefore the availability to the US. And like I said, the US has to secure sources of oil. If today we said that we were going to start drilling and refining more oil from our own soil, it would take 10 years for one drop of usable oil due to the lag time in getting a workable oil field and refineries up to speed.

With the current economic sanctions against Iraq, they receive very little for the oil that we have secured and utilize. China is the main recipient. In the late 90's after Desert Storm, we slapped Iraq with horrible economic sanctions that starved thousands. Clinton actually continued this policy during his "wag the dog" campaign to get the public to forget about Monica Lewinski. Once Clinton had a stronghold in that region, America and the U.N. developed what is know as the "Food for Oil" agreement that allowed Iraq to only use their natural resource to feed the starving. Although this program was supposedly terminated in 2003, the current war re-established new sanctions against their government that will not be lifted until our occupation has ended. Therefore, the Iraqis do not capitalize off of their own natural resource, they are forced to use it for minimal purposes that are closely scrutinized by America, China, Russia and the United Nations as a whole.

Just type it into your search engine...Food for oil, Iraq.
en.wikipedia.org...

The US petitioned the UN to remove the economic sanctions against Iraq, and that was approved years ago. The food for oil program was under Saddam and was revealed to be mostly fraudulent, and yes directly benefiting China. But that program is over now since there is a new govt in Iraq. Read the same link you provided. States right there that the program ended in 2003.

[edit on 11-1-2010 by johnny2127]

reply to post by inked up


I usually stay logged on, but im not always on the laptop. The connection could be better but oh well, Iraq will still be a 3rd world country.

What an ignorant comment! It's not "so that we could drive cars". It's so that few people could get very rich. It has nothing to do with your or my right and affordability to drive a car.

It has everything to do about acquiring a valuable resource in an illegal manner and profiting from it.

In this case it's oil, in Afghanistan it's gas, or it could be diamonds from Sierra Leone.

Bottom line - you'd drive your car anyway, and you can heat your home too, but what changes is who gets rich while you're in the process of doing so.

And he who controls the resources, controls the world.

So, please stop spewing such uninformed rhetoric that you've been brainwashed to believe by communist-sponsored green movement.

What an ignorant comment! Oil is the most valuable resource in our country WHY? Because people drive cars. It has everything to do with cars. Because if the politicians fail to lower gas prices, they won't get re-elected, because the only thing many Americans care about out of their government is how low they can keep gas prices.

Originally posted by John_Brown
I left the Army after 8 years because I felt just like Stop-Loss. I was even stop-lossed myself, but I didn't run off at the mouth and engage in behavior that might endanger myself or other soldiers.

How does posting pictures and commentary endanger any of his comrades-in-arms? I admire him for his courage in posting his opinions here and sharing a POV from a place that we only know about here in the states from what the media tells us. Off duty soldiers are allowed to have opinions other than the offical view of what's going on; I heard all about Vietnam from my uncles over there. What they said in no way matched what the media was telling us about.
Take hope Stoploss, many of us have been actively protesting against the war since it began. We do what we can and value the lives of our men and women over there, that's why we want to bring them home. Best of luck to you and stay out of harm's way brother.
I don't get you John_Brown. As a vet yourself I would think you would agree the war is wrong and that we should just get the heck out. If you can specify how his writing about his experiences there endangers his comrades please tell me. If he is then I would agree with you, until then I'm hitching on his wagon.

reply to post by Stop-loss!


As a soldier of the Unites States army, you're part of the problem and you have blood on your hands.

reply to post by EMPIRE


Yes I know I have blood in my hands, that is why I am atoning for my sins of the past. The world will look at us from the future and know why we were truly here. A life of crime is not the way I want to go. I will do what is needed to wake people up from their long cold slumber, even if that makes me look like the enemy.

Originally posted by johnny2127The interesting part in my opinion, is that we will never know if they end up being right. Who knows how Democracy will be viewed and spread over the next 100-200 years. There will come a time in which this war in the middle east is a distant memory. Will democracy flourish and spread in the middle east at that time? Who knows. Either way, that the brief version of why I think the US really went to Iraq. Yes oil was part of it, but it wasn't that simple in my opinion. I think they had a grandiose, region altering philosophy.

A pretty good guess is the regime would have been in control for a time cashing in on oil deals while leaving the people in poverty, not developing as a country while others rapidly are. It surely isn't just about an ideal, there are many places in the world which could use intervention.

reply to post by Stop-loss!


You're taking a step in a positive direction then and this is good. I wish you peace, a safe journey and hopefully you'll be able to have a positive impact on people.


[edit on 11-1-2010 by EMPIRE]

Originally posted by Dragonfly79

Originally posted by johnny2127The interesting part in my opinion, is that we will never know if they end up being right. Who knows how Democracy will be viewed and spread over the next 100-200 years. There will come a time in which this war in the middle east is a distant memory. Will democracy flourish and spread in the middle east at that time? Who knows. Either way, that the brief version of why I think the US really went to Iraq. Yes oil was part of it, but it wasn't that simple in my opinion. I think they had a grandiose, region altering philosophy.

A pretty good guess is the regime would have been in control for a time cashing in on oil deals while leaving the people in poverty, not developing as a country while others rapidly are. It surely isn't just about an ideal, there are many places in the world which could use intervention.

Could very well be true. Personally, I think in the long run Iraq will be better off as a democracy. That being said, the initial invasion of Iraq and subsequent management of the country was so mismanaged that it is going to take much more work than it could have. But who knows, can one imagine that as time wears on and a generation or so has passed since this war, and democracy starts spreading through the middle east? Sure, I could imagine that. But I also could imagine where if/when the US leaves Iraq, a country like Iran enters and takes over. Only time will tell....