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The big secret of a master Mason: "What, the builder!"

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posted on Mar, 9 2010 @ 12:53 PM
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Originally posted by seattletruth
Does it prove what a scam Masonry really is?



Masonry is a "scam," eh? Codswallop.




posted on Mar, 9 2010 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


you are probably right, but I thought it would be nice to give the folks who are too lazy to look for anything past the first hit on the Google a purpose for a while. Like a quest of sorts. they may stumble on a site that actually has factual information and thus melt their circuitry.

Imagine the surprised look on their faces when they realize "what, you mean they really are just a bunch of regular guys trying to better themselves? how mundane."



posted on Mar, 9 2010 @ 07:14 PM
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reply to post by network dude
 




Imagine the surprised look on their faces when they realize "what, you mean they really are just a bunch of regular guys trying to better themselves? how mundane."


Meh, They'd still be freaked out about the rituals lol .. surely "normal" men would never engage in ritualistic activity! Must be Satanic. I wouldn't have a problem with Bill, if he wanted to be known as a weirdo and associate himself with every single known conspiracy in the World, good for him. But he has somehow convinced millions that he represents Freemasonry, an organization he has never actually belonged to..



posted on Mar, 9 2010 @ 07:29 PM
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I found this little nugget of weirdness here: www.relfe.com...


And on that page it said the following:
"Bill Schnoebelen lived on the dark side for many years. He was a 90 degree Freemason, a member of the Illuminati, a Satanic Priest, a Catholic Priest and even more. Then one day his monthly tithe check to the church of Satan came back from the bank with a note on the back - ``I'll be praying for you in Jesus' name ". Within a week he lost his demonic power."

So, right there I know that to be a lie, because there are no 'monthly tithe checks' to the CoS. So right in the first paragraph, there's a lie right there. I hadn't even bothered to read the rest...yet.
But, since I could use a good laugh...onwards I go...



posted on Mar, 9 2010 @ 07:34 PM
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reply to post by Matthew Dark
 


Okay, and here are some anachronistic bullet points from the list of Bill's 'accomplishments'...

"# Began involvement with Old Roman Catholic Church (ORCC) and studies for diaconate and priesthood in 1974-75
# Also began studies in Blue Lodge Freemasonry and was finally made a Master Mason in 1977
# About the same time (1975) as he got involved in the ORCC, he also became involved with Church of Satan – became a Second Degree Member (warlock)"

Is it me, or does this not even make sense?

And...correct me if I'm wrong, but when you go through the first three degrees of Masonry, you don't get a certificate. It's not like you're graduating elementary school. Sheesh...

[edit on 3/9/10 by Matthew Dark]



posted on Mar, 9 2010 @ 07:57 PM
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Originally posted by Matthew Dark
Is it me, or does this not even make sense?


Stop trying to be logical.

In all seriousness, I believe at that time you could not be a Mason and a practicing Catholic as you would have been excommunicated (not to mention the whole Church of Satan aspect).


And...correct me if I'm wrong, but when you go through the first three degrees of Masonry, you don't get a certificate.


Typically you do not. You may have your Masonic Bible (or other Holy Book) signed by the Master and Wardens to commemerate the event and/or you may receive a small book or pamphlet explaining the preceeding degree (this is the case in my jurisdiction and several others I am aware of).




[edit on 9-3-2010 by AugustusMasonicus]



posted on Mar, 9 2010 @ 07:59 PM
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reply to post by Matthew Dark
 


www.iss-ic-memphis-misraim.com...

Why would you need to send them copies of your birth certificate, passport, pictures of yourself and your resume?

Does this not make sense to anyone else?



posted on Mar, 9 2010 @ 07:59 PM
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reply to post by Matthew Dark
 




but when you go through the first three degrees of Masonry, you don't get a certificate.


No actually you do! lol.. Well, I dunno if you'd call it a certificate.. basically recognition from the Grand Lodge of whatever state your from. I also got one from the Scottish Rite .. You never hear Masons talk about them, because they don't really mean anything. You get a Dues card, thats the only important documentation really. Or there is also certificates of Ritual proficiency.

But basically you got the jist of everything that is Bill: One big lie.



posted on Mar, 9 2010 @ 08:07 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


Dude, I'm listening to one of his lectures right now (for entertainment purposes only).
How can anyone not tell that this guy is a con-man?
Honestly...

Okay, so I'm still listening to this guy and he said that he was a vampire, but worked as a newspaper delivery guy at the same time?
And according to him, he was one of the most powerful warlocks on the west coast of...Lake Michigan?!?
This guy actually sells books?

[edit on 3/9/10 by Matthew Dark]



posted on Mar, 9 2010 @ 08:08 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


Yeah, I know about the dues card, but I've never known anyone to get a certificate for doing their first three degrees.
I guess it depends on the state.



posted on Mar, 9 2010 @ 08:36 PM
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Originally posted by scooterstrats
reply to post by BreakinThEwaLL
 

Well maybe. Or maybe you can find someone to sponsor you to join and learn the actual word rather than speculating on an internet forum. ?


YES, join an ridiculous, fabricated, expensive cult, so that you can learn the "secrets" and be one of the COOL KIDS!

Brilliant.

I think I'd rather stick to a religion that has no "secrets" meant for special members. One that invites members to come and learn without making them join a dues-paying club to "eventually" learn the "secrets" and make them partake in silly symbolic rituals.

I'll stick to Islam, thanks.



posted on Mar, 9 2010 @ 08:42 PM
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reply to post by seattletruth
 


Do us all a favor and let us know when you're finished talking down to us, okay?
Or...better yet...
You let me know what you think, and I'll let you know when I care what you think.
How's that?



posted on Mar, 9 2010 @ 08:50 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Mar, 9 2010 @ 08:52 PM
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reply to post by Matthew Dark
 


You were probably one of the kids in elementary school that would join the "Pen 15 Club" because an older kid told you it would make you cool.

Why should a religion be secretive? Why should knowledge be held back from the public? What God would advocate this type of egotistical chicanery? Answer: God wants his knowledge SPREAD to rich and to poor, non exclusively, not held captive and only given to a select few who pay enough dues for years.

Freemasonry is a sham. You feel like everybody envies you because you "know the secrets". Really, most of the population is laughing at you and your "Spanky's Clubhouse".



posted on Mar, 9 2010 @ 08:58 PM
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Originally posted by seattletruth
Why should a religion be secretive?


I do not think any religion should be secretive. Neither should they be dogmatic.

Since Masonry is not a religion we obviously need not worry about that aspect.


Why should knowledge be held back from the public?


It should not, but conversely, it need not be spoon-fed to you. There is great triumph in learning and defeating ignorance using ones own mind.


What God would advocate this type of egotistical chicanery? Answer: God wants his knowledge SPREAD to rich and to poor, non exclusively, not held captive and only given to a select few who pay enough dues for years.


Agreed. But since the dues that Masonry charges are fairly low ($79 in my jurisdiction) and the 'knowledge' is available in numerous forms of media I do not think that this is an issue as well. The degrees are an allegorical lesson and not necessary for one to be a productive and charitable member of society.


Freemasonry is a sham. You feel like everybody envies you because you "know the secrets". Really, most of the population is laughing at you and your "Spanky's Clubhouse".


I am fairly certain that Matthew is not a Mason.

But as a Mason myself I do not put much stock in who is 'laughing' at me and what I enjoy.



posted on Mar, 9 2010 @ 09:09 PM
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Originally posted by seattletruth
reply to post by Matthew Dark
 


You were probably one of the kids in elementary school that would join the "Pen 15 Club" because an older kid told you it would make you cool.


Dude, I don't even know what that is, so I'm gonna have to just say no. So, for you to go and try to attack me on that level, kudos to you. I'm sure your god is real proud of you.


Why should a religion be secretive? Why should knowledge be held back from the public? What God would advocate this type of egotistical chicanery? Answer: God wants his knowledge SPREAD to rich and to poor, non exclusively, not held captive and only given to a select few who pay enough dues for years.


You sound bitter. Maybe you were one of those kids who got picked last for kickball. Or maybe...not enough hugs?


Freemasonry is a sham. You feel like everybody envies you because you "know the secrets". Really, most of the population is laughing at you and your "Spanky's Clubhouse".


Ah, so you profess to speak for all people, both Masons and non-Masons alike, eh?
Again, I'm sure your god is patting himself on the back for having created such an outstanding citizen as yourself.



posted on Mar, 10 2010 @ 05:37 AM
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reply to post by seattletruth
 


none of the "secrets" are hidden from anybody. I swear, I don't know how else to put this. EVERYTHING that has ever been kept secret in masonry is out. The reason that doesn't matter is that you don't learn what any of it means until you experience it. You learn by doing. I don't think anybody gets all giggly and secretive when they are raised to the 3rd degree. You have been misled as to what masonry really is.



posted on Mar, 10 2010 @ 10:17 AM
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reply to post by seattletruth
 


Okay, here's the thing.
I never said I am or am not a Mason, and it really doesn't matter either way.
Not only does it not affect you on a personal level, had I decided to go through the first three degrees (which, again, I'm not saying I have or have not), I would've based that decision on a personal quest to learn something for myself.
To surround myself with good people who only want to enhance their lives and become a part of something bigger than they are as individuals.
It's a personal choice for people.
I've read many of your posts and you seem to have this chip on your shoulder coupled with your Islam superiority issue, which doesn't make any sense to me (and whether that's in essence, beyond me, is really not the primary issue.)
So, you're anti-Mason, good for you.
In the long run, it matters not and by bad mouthing a bunch of guys, whom, as far as I know, have never done anything to slight you, all you do is manage to look petty.
If someone were to come up here (and it does happen, especially by a certain group whom I'm not fond of who will remain nameless for the purpose of this discussion) and talk smack about Islam, you would cry foul and attempt, to the best of your ability, to not so much correct them, as educate them and try to make the point that all involved are not suicide-bombing, innocent women-stoning, misogynistic, goat-shagging zealots (at least, I'm hoping that you would take that route, as any other route would only serve to enhance the negative view one might take of that particular demographic) like so many may or may not believe.
Then, had you been unable to persuade such a person to perhaps educate themselves or consider another point of view, you would gracefully allow them to continue to wallow in their own ignorance. It's not your responsibility to try and change their mind. It is, however, your responsibility to remain faithful to the path you have chosen for yourself, and not allow the slings and arrows of those who disagree with you to degrade your sense of choice to the point of petty bitterness. By stooping so low as to insult the personal choices of people you don't know on a personal level just because you don't agree with them, you become part of the problem. You attempt to elevate yourself by degrading others and I'm fairly sure that this kind of behavior is frowned upon by Islam (which, if I'm not mistaken, is essentially about love for all creation...in a nutshell). Now me, I'm not a religious person, I have my beliefs and my perceptions and, in the long run, it has zero affect on you, the choices you make and the life you choose to live. What you say about one group or another means less than nothing to me, but when you decide to attack me on a personal level because of choices (that I am not confirming or denying that I've made) that I've made for my life (that, again, have zero consequence for your or yours), then all you do is perpetuate the stereotypical image of a bitter, know-it-all Muslim, and I know that's not the image you really want the world to have of you. Would it shock you to find out that I've known a few Muslim guys that are Masons? Would it disrupt your belief system to find out that a bunch of guys, Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Deist, Satanist and others, have the ability to put their religious beliefs aside and all sit in a room together in the spirit of fraternity? I'm wondering if you are truly capable of understanding that concept. Religion has it's place, I guess, but it, in my opinion, should not permeate every single institution and rule ever waking thought that a person may or may not have. That's not religion, it's oppression. And you're acting as though you know what's in everyone's best interest, which, according to your poor attitude, it's evident that you do not. So, to sum it up...relax...no one is out to get you. There is not an international cabal of guys who want to take away your right to worship your god the way you want to. You keep this up, all you're going to do is give yourself a coronary and no one likes to clean up after one of those.


note: edited because, yes, once again, I screwed up the italics function. Shame on me.



[edit on 3/10/10 by Matthew Dark]



posted on Mar, 10 2010 @ 10:39 AM
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YES, join an ridiculous, fabricated, expensive cult, so that you can learn the "secrets" and be one of the COOL KIDS!


Actually, couple of things here.
The Masons never claim to have a monopoly on the secrets, any time I've asked them, they've only offered it as one path among many.
For that matter, much of what is contained in Masonry, save for the personal experiences you get, have been revealed, and will continue to be.
However, based off of my own experiences with similar concepts, I have to agree that the loose a bit of their value outside of their intended setting, or without fellows there to practice it with.
The dues are not expensive, I pay much more to attend a martial arts class, and only lightly less to attend the Pensacola Archaeological Society. Which, by the way, you have to be a member of to attend the private meetings.

[edit on 10-3-2010 by RuneSpider]



posted on Mar, 10 2010 @ 11:11 AM
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Originally posted by RuneSpider
attend the Pensacola Archaeological Society. Which, by the way, you have to be a member of to attend the private meetings.

[edit on 10-3-2010 by RuneSpider]


WAIT!! I demand to know what kind of goings on happen inside your private meetings!!! Why, you could be plotting the destruction of mankind in there. You could be building ships to take the elite people of world just before 2012! I demand satisfaction!!!

wow, I never really thought how silly that sounds until I actually typed it.
Just kidding Rune, I wouldn't want to be attacked by ninjas at the door whilst trying to infiltrate the secret meetings.



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