Internet & The Information Crisis

reply to post by Skyfloating


"
With the age of Internet, the dissemination of Information has become more democratic. But has it become more true? "

Internet is an open system

BUt what is opennes ?

People are happy with facebook : but this is a closed system : control : ( like youtube, Twitter, iPhone, Kindle, etc. )

if you have a suffiscient amount of time to analyse open system, openness, free culture, and "open education" (liki wikiversity) : you will understand that it could be better than our closed and controlled system.

Listen this was touched upon earlier in the thread, it isn't like some one is fact checking all the info we get anyway.The news .school books,history books ,news about the pyramids,reports from NASA,The government,the Bible,your barber and even your friends put there own spin on what they tell you.Take history books that we use to teach kids in school,not only do they provide a jaded view of history,it isn't even consistent.In Michigan they are going to force the schools to teach about the Benevolence of the unions (because the unions are prevalent in Michigan politics)but not anywhere else in the country.So we as a "consumer " of knowledge had better heed the advice of our forefathers and "caveat emptor". But make no mistake this is nothing new.

G/I

[edit on 10-1-2010 by genius/idoit]

[edit on 10-1-2010 by genius/idoit]

Blame the authors not the medium.

The same crap was put in print in previous years.

It just wasn't as widely distributed and easily accessible.

Originally posted by psychederic
Internet is an open system

BUt what is opennes ?

People are happy with facebook : but this is a closed system : control : ( like youtube, Twitter, iPhone, Kindle, etc. )

if you have a suffiscient amount of time to analyse open system, openness, free culture, and "open education" (liki wikiversity) : you will understand that it could be better than our closed and controlled system.

Thanks for adding these Definitions - they are relevant to what we are discussing.

Id prefer a nice mix of closed and open systems. As with everything in life, too much conrol is limiting and too little control (no rules, no protection) is a limitation too.

[edit on 10-1-2010 by Skyfloating]

Since nobody answered, I´ll ask again:

How important is truth to you?

And if its important:Why?

If its not important: Why not?

reply to post by woodwardjnr




Point 1: How reliable is the source of the claim?

Good one. "Has this news-source often told me things that turned out to be true?"

Point 3: Have the claims been verified by anybody else?

Important. There are many THOUSANDS of one-source articles at this website alone.

Point 4: Does this fit with the way the world works?

Hm...dont know about this one.

I only know that in the early early days of the WWW, 1989, 1990ish...the ONLY people worried about the QUALITY of the information available online were the people that were fighting to keep OTHER people offline.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Since nobody answered, I´ll ask again:

How important is truth to you?

And if its important:Why?

If its not important: Why not?

Information may be power, but it brings insanity also. In the quest of truth, you may absorb too much poisonous lies or even mishandle the power.

Such example is given in the story of Buddha:

One day, as Siddhartha was sitting under a bodhi tree on the bank of a river, he saw on the opposite bank a fisherman teaching a young boy how to play the lute.

"If you tighten the strings too much," the fisherman explained, "they will snap, and if you leave them too loose they won't play, but if they are tuned to the right point, then you will make music."

Just like we all want to be happy, I think, in the same way we all find truth very important to us.

What science, religion, politics or journalism (internet?) are providing are mere tools towards truth, obviously mishandled in much of our history.

The mind runs in ruts. This is one of the key reasons people are so manipulable in the first place. Once a habit or rut is established it is easy to stay in it. Once an idea is synced into it is easy to stay with, especially where there is a camaraderie or sense of agreement or belonging.

I've seen a strong tendency among some here to parrot the "evolved" or socially acceptable, enlightened or "scientific" or other such conditioning. Yet, when someone has the courage to go outside of the peoples established comfort zone it provides them with the opportunity to think differently and if someone is already quietly outside of the established then it gives them confidence they should have.

One thing that is pretty obvious from worldly experience is that people are inherently negative thinkers in general. This is partly a survival attribute and partly weakness. I think the answer to what rings true for the individual at the moment is for them to simply be true to themselves while keeping in mind that 99% of their understanding is likely to have flaws and remain open to other ideas. Typically an Idea is denied, ridiculed, considered, excepted, then evolved.

Funny thing about truth is it all has to do with the person who is saying it.

We all live in our own realities and with that comes different types of truths.

It may be similar or conceptually different but it is someones truth.

Just because 10 people say the same thing is not all ways the right truth.

There is truth in every thing that is said for no mater how out there it is, it has happened in someones in another life and it just resurfaces in this one.

Nice one!

Originally posted by Skyfloating
The Internet has been of great benefit to almost anyone. This is why its possible drawbacks are overlooked. One of the disadvantages of the Internet is that it is more difficult to discern between information, entertainment, advertisement and propaganda. In many cases, blurring the lines between fact and fiction, truth and lie, reality and irreality is actively sought.

Cannot agree more with you there

Someone writes an article and posts it to a Blog, a Website or a Discussion-Board.

Is the article secretly being sponsored by a viral-marketing-campaign?
Is the article written with the hidden purpose of political spin?
Is it written to entertain and generate site-clicks?
Is it written to demonize or idolize something or someone?

Depends who wrote it and why, i think all of us who posts something on-
or offline has some deeper and maybe personal purpose, some of the intentions are good and some not so good. My girlfriend just asked me why are you, (she meant everybody here) doing this, what is your reason and my short answer to her was, i do it to oppress the everyday tyranny we face.

Or is it actually written to inform tp the best of ones knowledge and truth-as-one-understands-it and for the educational benefit of mankind? There is no way of knowing for sure.

This is what i try to keep in my mind when i make a post or a new thread. How well i`m doing this i wouldn`t know, but i`m trying with my best intentions, and many of us here are doing the same i have noticed, and that is a very positive thing, in many of the different opinions and it`s uniqueness.

With the age of Internet, the dissemination of Information has become more democratic. But has it become more true? Does it pose a problem that every uneducated idiot with a Blog is now a publisher for Millions and that false information can spread at the speed of light? Is anything being done in school so that children learn about the responsible and fair use of the Internet?


How do you tell between Entertainment, Infotainment, Information, Propaganda?

My guess would be analyzing to our best of knowledge and using our common sense.

Some argue that Blogs and News-Sites should not be anonymous. That if people had to post their real name along with the information they post, the information would be more responsible and truthful. Others argue that it should always be anonymous because then posting is more courageous and privacy is protected. I can see merit in both sides. What do you think?

I agree, i think it`s a double bladed sword, couple of media "outlets" and online newspapers where i come from have implemented such rules that you can not comment on a article unless you sign in to the commentarium with your national ID card, with all the information on it. It has made their commentarium a lot "cleaner", but on the other i think it will scare some of the vital information we need to escape from us, in this Orwellian world.

I enjoyed reading your post, big thank`s S&F

I would personally like to apologise, for my participation in a recent thread, where i didn't aproach certain peices of information presented to me in a way i would normally expect myself to - which would be to check the validity of the sources, along with a clear headed aproach to the overall context of this info'. Without those things i found myself accepting things as fact when in hindsight they were clearly not facts at all, even without checking the validity of the sources it was obvious how gullible i had been.

"Most will see gullibiity in others but themselves feel confident that they can tell info from misinfo. This over-confidence, that de-activates critical thinking, is uncalled for imo. "

Commenting from introspection, i feel perhaps the the amount of information we're being given could possibly lead to generalisations in our minds about the overall validity of these sources of infromation. Especially when there are multiple sources bundled together in the same context, parading as the same topic. In other words if were familiar with one particular peice of information which we know to be valid, perhaps we are more likely to treat the other peices of information provided in that context as somewhat valid too..?

And perhaps in addition to the above, when we become familiar with sources we consider reliable, our perception of its validity is far more likely to be "reliable" when we next encouter a peice of information form that source. Familiarity of sources, therefore, could be a reason why so much fiction is passed as "fact" these days.

And that could apply to all human cultures throughout history, look at the news or media in general, so much bull# people trust these days without thinking about its validity. But acutally most myths and pseudo-sciences throughout history have probably relied on this aspect of human psychology for their proliferation.

So i agree we should take this more seriously. But maybe in order to obtain validity, we should develop a vali-duty. meaning everyone who posts here has the duty to post valid info... just an idea.

good thread though, and thanks for waking me up to this, i appreicate it.

A very timely thread indeed.

edit: Aplogies to redoubt, because i more or less reiterated what you said in your post.

[edit on 10-1-2010 by DizzyDayDream]

Originally posted by Skyfloating
How important is truth to you?

Truth is what we all need. Without it, we would all be dead by now. Humanity wouldn't have survived without trying to find out what's right or wrong, smart or stupid, careless or careful, valuable or worthless, a friend or an enemy, etc., etc., etc.

And if its important:Why?

Because dousing yourself with gasoline and lighting a match is dangerous.
Because walking on thin ice is treacherous.
Because teasing a rattler can cause discomfort in the extreme.

The above are truths.

When Dr. Phil tells an irritating person on the telly that they need to get counselling for anger issues, he may be right or, perhaps the irritating person is just putting on a show so Dr. Phil can give his 'esteemed advice'.

When a televangelist lays hands on a crippled child and says; "Rise and walk!" and the child gets out of the wheelchair and starts dancing on the stage, the child might just be an actor for the televangelist.

Those are half-truths.

There are different kinds of truths and the ability to differentiate between truths, half-truths and outright charlatan lies is what makes a few people gullible and the rest shrewd.

Take any 10 year old and try to tell a half-truth. Chances are that youngster is first of all going to go "What?" and, if you press them on it, they'll tell you exactly what they think of it.

People are NOT stupid (for the most part) and will be deciding for themselves what to believe and what not to. We do it from our earliest days on because tricks are played on us all for the fun of it. It's part of the learning process, just like kittens play fighting. It's important later on in life.

Damn good thread, btw.




[edit on 10/1/10 by masqua]

reply to post by Skyfloating


Good thread - S&F.

However I think there are some simple answers to the main question of how to determine truth from fact:

Research, research, and more research. Back not only yourself up, but everything you believe in if you're going to share it.

As well as researching and backing up your info, you need to be careful to not link any crap to yourself, otherwise the truth you may be sharing could be shown to be untrue because of past stories you shared.

Being open minded: Don't close your mind to the crap we hear on TV, by the MSM, open your mind to new ideas and reshape what you believe in, otherwise you are subject to being a sheep, period.

And last, but most important, think for yourself. This goes alongside with being open minded obviously, but thinking for yourself is hard sometimes when people surround you with conspiracies all the time. Pick out the information you think is true, research it, and either tell others why you believe this or that and how you know it to be true or very possible, or show others how it is not true. Very simple way to discern truth from fiction.

Originally posted by masqua

Originally posted by Skyfloating
How important is truth to you?

People are NOT stupid (for the most part) and will be deciding for themselves what to believe and what not to. We do it from our earliest days on because tricks are played on us all for the fun of it. It's part of the learning process, just like kittens play fighting. It's important later on in life.

We all have the capacity to differentiate between fact and fiction, yes and i agree that is all part of the learning process, however not every person does decide for themselves what to beleive or disbeleive. Sometimes we simply want to beleive or have been conditioned to beleive. And anyway to truly know anything we must beleive some things which could be called into question, like our senses, yes even they can deceive us on occasions. Thankfully very rarely, but my point is to "know" anything we must be beleiving on some level.

[edit on 10-1-2010 by DizzyDayDream]

The reality is that much of our reality is a shared illusion. A shared illusion imparted through disseminated information to the masses.

Much of that dissemination is orchestrated and institutionalized to shape a base shared reality for all.

In many ways one could say it is money that rules us, our notions of deities and spirituality that rules us, or men that rule us, machines or even alien life forms that rules us.

The truth is what rules us is that information that is instilled in us to form a shared reality. A shared reality where things become pertinent, valid and real simply because so many people share that opinion, an opinion imparted to them through that information that forms them.

That is why it is said that information and knowledge is the ultimate power.

For the reality is that it is simply through the molding and dissemination of information that creates the perceptions and opinions and ultimately the attitudes that shapes our reactions and actions.

Up until the internet the lords of information through publishing empires, religious institutions and government schools have been able to determine what information they want us to have to form our shared reality.

Some would suggest that has not served humankind well and has immersed it in a stagnating and regressive cycle of violence, and fear, greed and the inclination that leads to the propensity to not just horde and parcel information but all of the earth’s resources as well.

Today with the advent of the internet we stand on the dawn of a new age. A new age of collective consciousness that is no longer going to be a shared reality instilled in us by a chosen select elite few, but rather will be a consensus of billions of different souls with billions of different perspectives that in time will lead to breaking human stagnation and leading to human evolution.

We are but infants in the universe, crude, jealous and often vengeful and violent fearful creatures just taking baby steps with new technologies and just starting to look towards the cosmos and the universe itself to further define our reality of existence in it.

No longer shall the few be able to dictate to the many through the dissemination of information and its molding and control. No longer will they be able to withhold new ideas, new philosophies and the voices that would challenge and change the status quo that so many of us have come to realize we suffer under.

Those previous and current lords and masters of information and those who have benefited most from that system will be fearful, reluctant, and resistant to the change a true human collective consciousness will bring about.

No longer will they be able to exclusively dictate to the masses through the information that is imparted and instilled in them.

Each and every one of our voices, and experiences, and ideas, and philosophies, and perspectives can now be broadcast around the world in almost the same instant that we think it, write it or speak it, all thanks to the internet.

It is the dawn of a new age, the age of Aquarius we are no longer simply individual fish from the age of Pisces swimming about in tightly controlled schools in a vast sea of humanity in the vast sea of the cosmos.

Today that sea is taking on a collective consciousness of its own, finally learning from its lessons, finally willing to speak out and up and against what has failed humanity and what serves humanity better.

No longer can tyrants and despots silence these ideas and voices by controlling information and they are scared for that and rightly so.

They are in a conundrum there are too many of us now to rule and control and profit off of without the use of such instantaneous communications technology, yet that technology does not serve them alone any longer.

It serves us all, and we all share this planet we call earth in this universe which we barely know, and no longer can the few decide what is best for us all.

This thread is an extension of that fear, that fear of humankind coming of age, and throwing off its bonds of slavery to the few, and their desire to make us less than human for their own greed, glory, posterity and profit.

They have kept us divided, and fearful, and segregated through nations, and races, and religions and encouraged us through their control of the flow of information to cling to those false prides, and fears and jealousies to manipulate us all.

Today though humanity is slowly uniting as voices around the world can join together across those borders, across those colors, across the great divides that have been used to manipulate and diminish us all.

The internet is the forerunner of the collective consciousness that humanity will develop in the new age, the new age that has already begun.

As always those who ruled the last age, will fight this, and try to retard its growth and hold humanity back but theirs is a loosing battle, the battle of fear, and despair.

There message is always about fear, always about we are not mature enough or wise enough or ready to think for ourselves, govern ourselves take care of ourselves and the Original Post reeks of that fear.

The politics of fear, the exploitation of fear, the appeal to appoint lords and masters who presumably know better than us all, to whom we should defer and submit and allow ourselves to be subjugated to for their own vanity and desires with little to no thought about what is best for the masses, what is best for humanity but only themselves.

That age is no more, the collective consciousness of the internet is about new ideas, rooting out the truth, separating fact from fiction, the cruel from the kind, the foolish from the wise, and humans deciding as equals what is best to usher in an age of hope and prosperity and equality that will take our race to new heights and out into the stars.

The internet is the dawning the Age of Aquarius and let it be hope, and love, and peace, and wisdom and equality and compassion that reigns and guides us all for the next 2,500 years!

Reject fear in all its forms, for we have nothing to fear but fear itself, the more love you give the more you shall find!

This is the dawning of the Age of Aquarius.

[edit on 10/1/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Since nobody answered, I´ll ask again:

How important is truth to you?

And if its important:Why?

If its not important: Why not?

This is one man's opinion; my own:

Truth is a treasure worth far more than facts, which are often manu'fact'ured to fit a certain end.

Truth is not biased and it can be spoken by a preacher, a sage or a devout liar. If you judge a book by its cover, you may someday miss some truth where you would not even begin to look for it.

Truth is a stand alone article. Once something is proven to be truth, it need not be proved again and again to suit those who would wish it not to be true. For this sort of thing, we have politics and and those aforementioned facts.

Truth does not need your name signed to it. If it is a genuine truth, it will remain a truth no matter who you are or are not.

A single truth can disprove a thousand lies or facts. But no lie or fact can change the truth.

The truth can set you free... if you let it.



Addendum:


How important is truth to you? Quite a lot.

And if its important: Why? Because it is.


[edit on 10-1-2010 by redoubt]

Nice post OP, but i have to say that this thread has to have been written by someone who doesn't know how to navigate the internet. Now, that is NO insult, the internet is crazy hard to pick truth from poopoo, and please don't take it as criticism. It's just that the TRUTH isn't out there like in the xfiles opening theme, it's "the truth is online", which is good if for nothing than the fact of actually forcing someone researching or just curious in almost all matters known to man to decipher between fact and fiction. I mean, what benefit could a person gain from having to decipher between truth and lies in this day and age? In this day and age? ... When with all other media and resources (besides choice literature) seem to be the all the same flavor of
*&^%.

Point 1: How reliable is the source of the claim?


MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

I disagree, in a engineer mentality, its indispensable to simplify the problem as fast as you can, but... If you blindly follow this "principle" you will fall in an "ad hominen" fallacy. (For example, if Hitler states that love is good, then what?)

How can you be sure a source is reliable?? what if the source is your father, or your prophet or your savior; but he has been deceived??



Yes, we have lots of new information sources, but the problem has always been the same:

YOU NEED TO DEVELOP YOUR OWN CRITERIA

And to constantly confront your own paradigms.
Do not believe me, do not believe anybody (not even you), go on and confront reality with reality.



>How important is truth to you?
A LOT

>And if its important:Why?
Because truth set us free.

wow, yuove really missed the point protoplasmic traveller, infact im glad you posted, youre mind is a good example of the uneducated opinion factory talked about in the OP, which by the way does not reek of fear, how insulting.

you said this:
"Each and every one of our voices, and experiences, and ideas, and philosophies, and perspectives can now be broadcast around the world in almost the same instant that we think it, write it or speak it, all thanks to the internet."

You do realise we were discussing the benefits and drawbacks of your above desciption of the internet, and not simply providing examles of the above, as you have just done with your huge post. And no, discussing the implications of a global communications network coupled with the magnitude of human ignorance isn't simply propogating fear, its a genuine discussion that needs to take place.

Redoubt, what do you make of this response to you previous post, from Nietsche:

"Assuming that truth is a woman - what then? Is there not reason to suspect that all philosophers, in so far as they were dogmatists, have known very little about this woman? ... One thing is certain: she has not let herself be charmed."