Are we getting a pattern here?
That all requires infrastructure...trade routes, roads, workers, economics.
How does a culture get to that stage of sophistication? Well...they evolve through time like we have. This means huts to groups of huts, to better
huts, houses and then towns to cities. These need to be linked by roads so the materials above can be transported. We need factories, education,
specialization in the workforce.
Although you raise these points in order to refute my argument that the ancients had aeroplanes and robots, you have actually raised a very valid and
logical point(I raised this point myself earlier on in another thread) that works to my favour. That point is that in order for a civilisation to rise
to the level of building robots and aeroplanes, it must have already be industralized or semi-industralized to manufacture nuts and bolts, alloys etc.
This in turn presupposes a highly organized society, with cities linked by roads and a division of workforce and a complex economic and civil
I completely agree, and the fact that this is visible in ancient times further lends to the point that the ancients must have had a modern level of
A sophisticated and technologically advanced urban culture is evident in the Indus Valley Civilization making them the first urban centers in the
region. The quality of municipal town planning suggests the knowledge of urban planning and efficient municipal governments which placed a high
priority on hygiene, or, alternately, accessibility to the means of religious ritual.
As seen in Harappa, Mohenjo-daro and the recently partially excavated Rakhigarhi, this urban plan included the world's first known urban sanitation
systems. Within the city, individual homes or groups of homes obtained water from wells. From a room that appears to have been set aside for bathing,
waste water was directed to covered drains, which lined the major streets. Houses opened only to inner courtyards and smaller lanes.
The ancient Indus systems of sewerage and drainage that were developed and used in cities throughout the Indus region were far more advanced than any
found in contemporary urban sites in the Middle East and even more efficient than those in many areas of Pakistan and India today. The advanced
architecture of the Harappans is shown by their impressive dockyards, granaries, warehouses, brick platforms and protective walls.
The people of the Indus Civilization achieved great accuracy in measuring length, mass, and time. They were among the first to develop a system of
uniform weights and measures. Their measurements are said to be extremely precise; however, a comparison of available objects indicates large scale
variation across the Indus territories. Their smallest division, which is marked on an ivory scale found in Lothal, was approximately 1.704 mm, the
smallest division ever recorded on a scale of the Bronze Age. Harappan engineers followed the decimal division of measurement for all practical
purposes, including the measurement of mass as revealed by their hexahedron weights.
These chert weights were in a perfect ratio of 4:2:1 with weights of 0.05, 0.1, 0.2, 0.5, 1, 2, 5, 10, 20, 50, 100, 200, and 500 units, with each unit
weighing approximately 28 grams, similar to the English Imperial ounce or Greek uncia, and smaller objects were weighed in similar ratios with the
units of 0.871. The weights and measures later used in Kautilya's Arthashastra (4th century BCE) are the same as those used in Lothal.
Unique Harappan inventions include an instrument which was used to measure whole sections of the horizon and the tidal lock. In addition, Harappans
evolved some new techniques in metallurgy and produced copper, bronze, lead and tin. The engineering skill of the Harappans was remarkable, especially
in building docks after a careful study of tides, waves and currents.
In others words it is evident that a very sophisticated and complex urban civilisation existed in ancient times in 3000BCE which had advanced
engineering skills and civil administration. The very precursor to aeroplanes and robots you stipulate.
In order to understand this civilisation further and the divisions of labour etc we need to look at the Arthshastra, which describes the
administration for this civilisation and is the most ancient Sanskrit text on economics. The Arthshastra by the way describes the Indus civilisation
and not the 400BCE Gupta empire as is believed(See India: Ancient Superpower: Dating the Historical Buddha) and hence why the metrical system used by
the Indus is the same time as the one in the Arthashastra. The Arthashastra corresponds to the mature phase of the Indus valley after 1700BCE.
The Arthashastra describes a highly regulated and industralized economy and very complex division of workforce:
CHAPTER XI. EXAMINATION OF GEMS THAT ARE TO BE ENTERED INTO THE TREASURY.
THE Superintendent of the treasury shall, in the presence of qualified persons, admit into the treasury whatever he ought to, gems (ratna) and
articles of superior or inferior value.
CHAPTER XII. CONDUCTING MINING OPERATIONS AND MANUFACTURE.
POSSESSED of the knowledge of the science dealing with copper and other minerals (Sulbádhátusástra), experienced in the art of distillation and
condensation of mercury (rasapáka) and of testing gems, aided by experts in mineralogy and equipped with mining labourers and necessary instruments,
the superintendent of mines shall examine mines which, on account of their containing mineral excrement (kitta), crucibles, charcoal, and ashes, may
appear to have been once exploited or which may be newly discovered on plains or mountain-slopes possessing mineral ores, the richness of which can be
ascertained by weight, depth of colour, piercing smell, and taste.
CHAPTER XIII. SUPERINTENDENT OF GOLD IN THE GOLDSMITH'S OFFICE.
IN order to manufacture gold and silver jewellry, each being kept apart, the superintendent of gold shall have a goldsmiths office (akshasála)
consisting of four rooms and one door.
In the centre of the high road a trained, skilful goldsmith of high birth and of reliable character shall be appointed to hold his shop.
Jámbúnada, that which is the product of the river, Jambu; Sátakumbha, that which is extracted from the mountain of Satakumba; Hátaka, that which
is extracted from the mines known as Hátaka; Vainava, that which is the product of the mountain, Vénu; and Sringasúktija, that which is extracted
from sringasúkti (?) are the varieties of gold.
(Gold may be obtained) either pure or amalgamated with mercury or silver or alloyed with other impurities as mine gold (ákaródgata).
That which is of the colour of the petals of a lotus, ductile, glossy, incapable of making any continuous sound (anádi), and glittering is the best;
that which is reddish yellow (raktapíta) is of middle quality; and that which is red is of low quality.
Impure gold is of whitish colour. It shall be fused with lead of four times the quantity of the impurity. When gold is rendered brittle owing to its
contamination with lead, it shall be heated with dry cowdung (sushkapatala). When it splits into pieces owing to hardness, it shall be drenched (after
heating) into oil mixed with cowdung (taila-gomaye).
Mine gold which is brittle owing to its contamination with lead shall be heated wound round with cloth (pákapatráni kritvá); and hammered on a
wooden anvil. Or it may be drenched in the mixture made of mushroom and vajrakhanda (Antiquorum).
CHAPTER XVI. THE SUPERINTENDENT OF COMMERCE.
THE Superintendent of Commerce shall ascertain demand or absence of demand for, and rise or fall in the price of, various kinds of merchandise which
may be the products either of land or of water and which may have been brought in either by land or by water path. He shall also ascertain the time
suitable for their distribution, centralisation, purchase, and sale.
CHAPTER XVII. THE SUPERINTENDENT OF FOREST PRODUCE.
THE Superintendent of Forest Produce shall collect timber and other products of forests by employing those who guard productive forests. He
shall not only start productive works in forests, but also fix adequate fines and compensations to be levied from those who cause any damage to
productive forests except in calamities.
CHAPTER XXIII. SUPERINTENDENT OF WEAVING.
THE Superintendent of Weaving shall employ qualified persons to manufacture threads (sútra), coats (varma), cloths (vastra), and ropes.
CHAPTER XXIV. THE SUPERINTENDENT OF AGRICULTURE.
POSSESSED of the knowledge of the science of agriculture dealing with the plantation of bushes and trees
(kri#antragulmavrikshsháyurvedajñah), or assisted by those who are trained in such sciences, the superintendent of agriculture shall in time collect
the seeds of all kinds of grains, flowers
CHAPTER XXV. THE SUPERINTENDENT OF LIQUOR.
BY employing such men as are acquainted with the manufacture of liquor and ferments (kinva), the Superintendent of Liquor shall carry on
liquor-traffic not only in forts and country parts, but also in camps.
CHAPTER XXVIII. THE SUPERINTENDENT OF SHIPS.
THE Superintendent of Ships shall examine the accounts relating to navigation not only on oceans and mouths of rivers, but also on lakes
natural or artificial, and rivers in the vicinity of stháníya and other fortified cities.
In conclusion the kind of civilisation that is evident in the Indus valley has all the required stages to develop into a highly technological
civilisation with the power to build aeroplanes and robots.
[edit on 11-1-2010 by Indigo_Child]