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Help with religious symbol identification

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posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 06:15 AM
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There is a boy in my daughter’s class at school who has the following symbol tattooed onto his wrist...






When my Daughter asked the boy about this symbol he said that it is religious and that he had to go to Egypt to get it. He also said that all members of his family have it.

The boy is 10 years old and of mixed race heritage. I have looked up this symbol, and although I can find the image, I cannot find anything that gives me details of its meaning.

When my daughter asks the boy what religion he is he changes it from day to day... One day he Christian, the next he is Muslim, then Catholic etc...

I m not necessarily saying that there is anything sinister behind this but just thought I would post it here to see if any of you guys could help with identifying its meaning.

Thanks...




posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 06:30 AM
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reply to post by Muckster
 




Hey mate... found a little info here.


Cross barbée



Also known as the cross barby or arrow cross, this symbol consists of two double-ended arrows in a cross configuration. Best known today for its use by the fascist Arrow Cross Party in the 1930s, the symbol actually dates to ancient times and was used by Hungarian tribes in the Middle Ages. In Christian use, the ends of this cross resemble the barbs of fish hooks, or fish spears. This alludes to the Ichthys symbol of Christ, and is suggestive of the "fishers of men" theme in the Gospel.



LINK

Hope that helps

[edit on 10/1/10 by blupblup]



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 06:49 AM
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reply to post by blupblup
 


Thanks blupblup that’s great


I was aware of possible racist/fascist use for this symbol but had ruled it out (although not completely) due to the boy being mixed race. However the Hungarian tribe’s connection is interesting and the Christian use is, in my opinion, the most likely use for this tattoo.

However, the thing that bothers me is this...

If the use for this is as a Christian symbol why would it be tattooed onto the boy? I thought that Tattoo’s are not allowed under Christian belief...




Leviticus 19:28 – “Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.”


Although Leviticus also says that you shouldn’t eat pork and we all know that most Christians eat pork...

Also, the boy is only ten years old... and got the Tattoo when he was nine... This seems a little extreme to me. But I guess it could just be a cultural thing?

Now that I have the name for the cross I can do some more research, so, BIG thanks for that blupblup



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 07:04 AM
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reply to post by Muckster
 



You're welcome.

I think perhaps he is a Christian too.

I hope you research yields some results too.

Keep me posted to ok?

Either here or via U2U, Cheers



I think that the whole thing about Christians and Tattoo's is mainly about context... it's mainly to do with setting "god's people" apart from the Pagans at the time.


In fact just found this to better explain the verse you quoted.


It's important, however, to look at the verse in context. This passage in Leviticus, including the surrounding text, is specifically dealing with the pagan religious rituals of the people living around the Israelites. God’s desire is to set his people apart from other cultures. The focus here is prohibiting worldly, heathen worship and witchcraft. God forbids his holy people to engage in idolatrous, pagan worship and sorcery which imitates the heathens. He does this out of protection, because he knows this will lead them away from the one true God.

It's interesting to observe verse 26, "Do not eat meat that has not been drained of its blood," and verse 27, "Do not trim off the hair on your temples or trim your beards." Well, certainly many Christians today eat non-kosher meats and get haircuts without participating in the forbidden worship of pagans. Back then these customs were associated with pagan rites and rituals. Today they are not.



Link

[edit on 10/1/10 by blupblup]



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 07:11 AM
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Jews may not have tattoos. And may not eat pork, shellfish, or anything I personally find yummy etc.

I have found that most practicing Jews follow the OT, whereas the NT, which is considered a Christian text, makes no mention of these things. Different strokes.

Still doesn't answer why a 10 year old has a tattoo at all...



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 07:17 AM
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thats my question too, why does a 10 year old boy have a tattoo

thats why he would have had to egypt to get it, its illegal to get tattoos under 18 in most countries, or 16 in some...

wierd tho



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 08:03 AM
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There is nothing religious, it's a fascist symbol. Search for Arrow Cross.

The kid may not know much about it and just brags. Why he's marked with it is another business... Is it a real tatoo ? Most people have tatoos they don't know the meaning of or make up a meaning. Do other family members really have it too ?

Edited with links :

www.search.com...
www.nationalist.org...


[edit on 10-1-2010 by Manouche]



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 08:55 AM
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reply to post by Manouche
 





There is nothing religious, it's a fascist symbol. Search for Arrow Cross.



While you are correct that it is used as a fascist symbol, it is also used as a Christian symbol... From the link that you provided...




In the traditional terminology of heraldry, this symbol was called a "cross barby" or "cross barbee". In Christian use, the ends of this cross resemble the barbs of fish hooks, or fish spears. This alludes to the Ichthys symbol of Christ, and is suggestive of the "fishers of men" theme in the Gospel.





I believe it is a real Tattoo due to the fact that the kid has had it for over a year. My daughter goes to school with the boy and also the boys Sister and Cousin... they both have the same mark. The boy has told my daughter that ALL members of the family have it.

Of course it’s not easy getting the full picture when it is Children involved... For all I know it could be a Henna tattoo which is reapplied every month or so... I just have my Daughters word (who I trust) and the information that the boy has given her.



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 09:02 AM
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Originally posted by Manouche
There is nothing religious, it's a fascist symbol. Search for Arrow Cross.

The kid may not know much about it and just brags.


I would agree with the Symbolism and it's Facist Roots. Remember, Egyptians and the Nazi Party had many interminglings on various levels.

Ancient Teachings
Hate for Jews
Tall Blond Origins

Just to name a few. I jest, but only slightly.


Here is something to consider


EGYPT THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD

Founded in 1928 by Hasan al-Banna, a 22-year-old elementary school teacher, the Muslim Brotherhood was a revivalist movement based on the tenets of Wahhabism, an orthodox form of Islam founded in Saudi Arabia. For most of its first decade in existence, the Brotherhood was a youth organization that sought to implement moral and social reform in Egypt through Islamic education, information and propaganda.

In 1939, The Brotherhood formally became a political party, the Party of the Muslim Brotherhood. In politics, Al-Banna and his followers criticized the Egyptian government for not resisting Zionist incursions from Europe and for kow-towing to western imperialist powers like Great Britain. Al-Banna also decried the fate of the poor in Egypt, particularly since so many foreign companies seemed to be profiting in the country. During the 1940's, and especially after the end of World War II in 1945, the Muslim Brotherhood radicalized even further, with many members of the Brotherhood becoming involved in terrorist activity. Many Egyptian members of the Muslim Brotherhood also fought in Palestine during the war that broke out in connection with the creation of Israel.

The Egyptian government eventually grew fearful of the influence and spread of the Brotherhood and it was banned. The ban appeared vindicated after a member of the Brotherhood assassinated the Prime Minister of Egypt, Mahmoud Fahmi Nokrashi, on December 28, 1948. The Egyptian government also engaged in the selected killing of members of the Brotherhood, including al-Banna himself, who was murdered in Cairo in February 1949. The Brotherhood was re-legalized as a religious movement and remained above ground until 1954 when it was banned again once and for all for the role of its members in the attempted assassination of President Nasser. The subsequent government crackdown was severe, with almost 4,000 members of the Brotherhood arrested. Thousands more fled Egypt for other Islamic countries. Fighting between the Egyptian government and the Brotherhood has continued throughout the post-war period. For example, President Anwar Sadat was assassinated in 1981 by four members of the Muslim Brotherhood after he made peace with Israel in 1979.

Contact between members of the Muslim Brotherhood and al-Qaeda has been well established for two decades and the current no. 2 man in al-Qaeda, Ayman al-Zawahiri, got his start in politics as a member of the Brotherhood.


So there is a background which would not only support a facist tendancy harboured within "Egypt" but suggest it even became a ruling party, or at the least had "Rulers" which believed in such idologies.


THE YOUNG EGYPT PARTY

Established in October 1933 by Ahmad Husayn as the Young Egypt Society (Misr al-Fatah) was patterned explicitly after the Nazi Party. By 1936, the small organization had grown and changed its name to The Young Egypt Party. Subsequently it changed names twice more when it became the Islamic Nationalist Party in 1940 and then the Socialist Party of Egypt in 1949. During its early growth, Husayn developed a paramilitary wing of the party called the "Green Shirts", which were inspired by and uniformed like Hitler's SA (the "Brown Shirts") and Mussolini's "Black Shirts". The Green Shirts were banned by the state in 1938 and Husayn went into exile. During this period he traveled to Germany and Italy to see Europe's fascist regimes for himself. Young Egypt's political goals included a call for increased state involvement in economic development and a rapid expansion of the Egyptian military. Prominent members of the party included the future Egyptian president Gamal Abdel Nasser and his successor Anwar Sadat. The members of Young Egypt actively worked against the British during the war, which led to the arrest of some of them. Among these was Sadat himself, who was imprisoned for providing intelligence information to the Germans during the war in North Africa.


Mideast and Facist/Nazi Connections

So I offer these, just for consideration about the implications.


About how the Child views or expresses things, I would just tend to think his KNOWS FULLY, what the Symbol is and what it Represents and Why he has it. I would also think his vague and multi responses are just to offer an "Presumed Ignorance" because he's just a child.

Ciao

Shane



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 09:12 AM
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----real people of god need no markings to see them--they live by grace and love--god sees them -we too if we look---its judea thinking spilling into true cristianity---laws or grace--symbolism or love



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 09:27 AM
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reply to post by Muckster
 


First we should be asking what part of the world you live in....

You see the arrow cross is The British National Front (most commonly called the National Front, and often known as the NF) is a far-right and whites-only British political party whose major political activities were during the 1970s and 1980s the Arrow cross was used as a prison tattoo to identify members...


you can order the template for one Here at the NF web site



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 09:29 AM
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reply to post by Muckster
 


I know this symbol as a common fascist symbol nowadays. I admit I dismissed too quickly that it could be a religious symbol still today.
Apparently Copts, Egyptian christians, get tattooed at young age and the tatoo can be a Coptic cross. And it looks very much like the cross in the OP, almost the same cross. Nothing actually sinister if it's the kid's tatoo.

www.getreligion.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 10-1-2010 by Manouche]



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 10:55 AM
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I recall seeing this symbol on Coptic churches when I was in Egypt.



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by Muckster
 


This is a great site for symbol research:

www.symbols.com...

Via the graphical search, one can describe any symbol. Your symbol would be characterized as:

Symmetry: Multi-axis symmetric
Open or Closed: Open
Straight or Curved: Straight
Crossing Lines: Crossing



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 12:02 PM
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My boss at work is Egyptian and has one on his wrist as well. Although I didn't ask about it, I can tell you he is Catholic and is very helpful and forgiving for everyone on the team. So, not sure about the mark, but his character is very commendable. I'm glad this was topic was posted though, it always helps to ask questions and learn new information.

[edit on 10-1-2010 by saint4God]



posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 08:04 PM
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Greetings Muckster,
I believe what is most interesting here is the manifestation of this symbol within your shared experience or life shared. The world of God is one of spirit. The Cross itself as I understand it, is the pointing or uprising of the fire, the down flowing of the water and the side branching of the essences of God. I understand the arrows to mean the outpouring spirit of the beginning or God. As a bursting or pouring forth of spirit, before man or Adam.
Peace.



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