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Evolution could be considered Intelligent Design?

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posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 08:29 PM
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As long as the origins of life continue to be a black box, theories pertaining to it are just that, theories. However, unlike creationism and evolutionism, intelligent design is much less direct.

There's much ongoing debate on evolutionism, creationism and now intelligent design. Although I respect the concept of intelligent design I think it's definition is too broad.

Couldn't you describe both evolutionism and creationism as intelligent design? Who can say that natural selection is not intelligent design?

Is the theory of intelligent design too vague, or do you think it deserves a place in this debate?




posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 08:31 PM
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There is no debate over evolution in the scientific community.



posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 08:41 PM
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reply to post by Zerbst
 


If you fill in the blanks with imaginative stuff then anything can be considered intelligent design. Science doesn't work that way, it uses the evidence and produces a conclusion based on that evidence. Anything further than this is pure speculation, such as assuming that evolution is the work of an intelligent designer.

Interestingly though, if that were the case, it would be the work of a not-so-intelligent designer when you see all of the flaws in life that we can observe.



posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 08:45 PM
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reply to post by Zerbst
 





Couldn't you describe both evolutionism and creationism as intelligent design? Who can say that natural selection is not intelligent design?

I couldn't agree more. In fact, the alternative would be a highly unlikely set of events, with combined odds off the charts against development of advanced life.
Even the Vatican now accepts the fact that there may very well be other forms of life in the universe very different from life on earth. Assuming that there is a higher power (I personally believe that there is), by definition we would not truly be able to understand the methods and works of that higher power. (By definition, if we understand that higher power fully, it would not be a HIGHER power.)
In my opinion, the mistake that many scientists make is the mistake of arrogance, that is, assuming that they know all, see all, and anyone that disagrees with them is wrong.

True scientists keep an open mind, and accept the possibility that there theories can be wrong, or incomplete.
Arrogance is the enemy of true science.



posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 09:05 PM
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reply to post by john124
 


How do you know that what you perceive as a flaw...doesnt have its purpose?

Give me an example of a flaw...just for discussions sake.



posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 09:21 PM
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Originally posted by LeoVirgo
reply to post by john124
 


How do you know that what you perceive as a flaw...doesnt have its purpose?

Give me an example of a flaw...just for discussions sake.



Thank you, LeoVirgo, exactly my point.

To conclude that life is anything but perfect is ludicrous! It is perfect in it's imperfections! Some people see mistakes, I see nuances.



posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 09:35 PM
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reply to post by Zerbst
 


I see it as perfect too....

So what we are given obstacles that require coping and adjusting. What wont kill us makes us stronger. We have many opportunities to learn...and if that opportunity slips by us....we will be given another one...all in due time.



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 06:24 AM
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reply to post by Zerbst
 
*Some* could consider (and do) that evolution is intelligent design. On a very superficial level, it's appealing. I had a brief period of time when I came to the same conclusion after watching David Attenborough's Secret Life of Plants!

The thing is, evolution doesn't require a designer. The concept of ID sets up a noisy loop that self-perpetuates itself. Who designed the designer? It's much simpler to accept that evolution occurs naturally, inevitably and isn't a process that was started by a 'higher power.'



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 08:55 AM
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In a Balloon filled with Hydrogen and Oxygen (in 2 to 1 ratios by number of nuclei), there are literally trillions of atoms.

Trillions upon countless trillions of atoms.

The odds of all of the atoms in the balloon shuffling themselves together randomly (Once a heat source is applied), to produce an end byproduct of water, is astronomically small.

The potential combination's of atoms are more than all of the stars in the universe.

Why, lets say 2 trillion hydrogen atoms, to one trillion oxygen atoms.. just for calculation purposes.

The odds of one oxygen atom meeting up with two hydrogen atoms, is anywhere from 2:1 to 10:1 against.

And that is for a SINGLE molecular reaction.


Multiply that single probability for all the potential atoms in the balloon, and you easily have something on the order of Thousands of Trillions to one against.


But when you apply a flame to the balloon.... Every single time...

IT produces Water vapor, and nothing else...

Every

Single

Time


Intelligent Design?


-Edrick


[edit on 10-1-2010 by Edrick]



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 07:22 AM
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reply to post by LeoVirgo
 


Flaws? Sure! Here are some in the human body:

1. The appendix. It serves no purpose, and gets infected. People die every year because of it

2. A combined eating & breathing tube in our necks. That allows us to choke on food. If we had two, we could get food stuck in there all day long and not die, painfully, curled up on the floor cursing that last McNugget

3. An immune system that goes haywire and starts to attack itself, causing untold damage to the body it is supposed to help

4. Eyes that are so commonly irregular, causing people to have bad eyesight

5. Mental illness. Our brains are constantly lauded by pro-IDers as being the most advanced computers in the universe, yet I can't remember the last time my desktop PC got in a funk and wanted to kill itself

6. Testes dropping from the abdomen into the scrotum (instead of developing there), leaving gaps which easily herniate.

I could go on. If that is the result of intelligent design, the intelligent designer should go back to school.



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 04:39 PM
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Originally posted by davesidious
reply to post by LeoVirgo
 


Flaws? Sure! Here are some in the human body:

1. The appendix. It serves no purpose, and gets infected. People die every year because of it

2. A combined eating & breathing tube in our necks. That allows us to choke on food. If we had two, we could get food stuck in there all day long and not die, painfully, curled up on the floor cursing that last McNugget

3. An immune system that goes haywire and starts to attack itself, causing untold damage to the body it is supposed to help

4. Eyes that are so commonly irregular, causing people to have bad eyesight

5. Mental illness. Our brains are constantly lauded by pro-IDers as being the most advanced computers in the universe, yet I can't remember the last time my desktop PC got in a funk and wanted to kill itself

6. Testes dropping from the abdomen into the scrotum (instead of developing there), leaving gaps which easily herniate.

I could go on. If that is the result of intelligent design, the intelligent designer should go back to school.


whew...good thing it isn't.



Originally posted by Kaytagg
There is no debate over evolution in the scientific community.


Whatever...


---------------------------------------------------------------

Its funny reading some of your guys' replies, lol



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 05:03 PM
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reply to post by Kandinsky
 

Some* could consider (and do) that evolution is intelligent design. On a very superficial level, it's appealing. I had a brief period of time when I came to the same conclusion after watching David Attenborough's Secret Life of Plants!

My thought on this is it is complete, the designer is the creator of the whole universe which is not superficial, and a great piece of design. The day to day mechanism of evolution is bacteria, they transfer genetic material in order to create proteins from which they feed.

I am unsure of the big bang but given progression we have time and a beginning. That beginning could have been caused by something other. The universe is not the entirety and perhaps by calling the creator a something in itself precludes an understanding.



posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 03:54 AM
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Originally posted by Kaytagg
There is no debate over evolution in the scientific community.


Evolution is a theory.

meaning it has yet to be proven

so theres no debate?

what a horrible line to use in any discussion rofl

thats the very definition of ignorance.



posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 04:16 AM
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Reply to post by Zerbst
 


Would you be thinking of the term "directed evolution"? It's possible IMHO albeit unprovable.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 04:24 AM
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Originally posted by Gakus

Originally posted by Kaytagg
There is no debate over evolution in the scientific community.


Evolution is a theory.

meaning it has yet to be proven

so theres no debate?

what a horrible line to use in any discussion rofl

thats the very definition of ignorance.



I thnk what Kaytagg is trying to say is, if you are a biologist who has studied evolution al of their scientific career (like Richard Dawkins)l. there is no debate as the evolution theory to biologists is as true as the laws of gravity for a physist.

The fact that most of us are not biologists and havn't studied evolution all of our lives means the debate only exists between those who do not really understand biology (like you and the OP).

No one questions gravity, yet People question evolution because it goes against everything their religious arrogance has taught them. People are so arrogant that they dont want to believe they evolved from apes and we are infact an ape. The 5th ape. So there is a big interest in people to try and prove evolution wrong.

hope that makes sense



posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 05:26 AM
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Originally posted by woodwardjnr

Originally posted by Gakus

Originally posted by Kaytagg
There is no debate over evolution in the scientific community.


Evolution is a theory.

meaning it has yet to be proven

so theres no debate?

what a horrible line to use in any discussion rofl

thats the very definition of ignorance.



I thnk what Kaytagg is trying to say is, if you are a biologist who has studied evolution al of their scientific career (like Richard Dawkins)l. there is no debate as the evolution theory to biologists is as true as the laws of gravity for a physist.

The fact that most of us are not biologists and havn't studied evolution all of our lives means the debate only exists between those who do not really understand biology (like you and the OP).

No one questions gravity, yet People question evolution because it goes against everything their religious arrogance has taught them. People are so arrogant that they dont want to believe they evolved from apes and we are infact an ape. The 5th ape. So there is a big interest in people to try and prove evolution wrong.

hope that makes sense


again another person trying to push a theory off as a proven fact.


stop dude you look silly.

please learn what a theory means.


lol@moronic people honestly trying to do such things.


untill it is a proven fact and not just widely accepted as it because it makes you sleep a little better at night


please stop being such a ignorant fool


[edit on 15-1-2010 by Gakus]



posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 08:02 AM
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reply to post by Gakus
 


You should learn what 'theory' means in scientific terms. It doesn't mean 'guess' or 'estimate', but 'idea with which all evidence agrees'.

You would help your argument by reading this.



posted on Jan, 16 2010 @ 07:45 PM
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Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
Reply to post by Zerbst
 


Would you be thinking of the term "directed evolution"? It's possible IMHO albeit unprovable.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 




Thanks for the input, Watcher.

I wasn't thinking of direct evolution, but it does provide a good example. What better describes DE than intelligent design?

Thanks again!



posted on Jan, 16 2010 @ 07:52 PM
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Originally posted by davesidious
reply to post by LeoVirgo
 


Flaws? Sure! Here are some in the human body:

1. The appendix. It serves no purpose, and gets infected. People die every year because of it

2. A combined eating & breathing tube in our necks. That allows us to choke on food. If we had two, we could get food stuck in there all day long and not die, painfully, curled up on the floor cursing that last McNugget

3. An immune system that goes haywire and starts to attack itself, causing untold damage to the body it is supposed to help

4. Eyes that are so commonly irregular, causing people to have bad eyesight

5. Mental illness. Our brains are constantly lauded by pro-IDers as being the most advanced computers in the universe, yet I can't remember the last time my desktop PC got in a funk and wanted to kill itself

6. Testes dropping from the abdomen into the scrotum (instead of developing there), leaving gaps which easily herniate.

I could go on. If that is the result of intelligent design, the intelligent designer should go back to school.



Can you be certain these things have always been? Can you prove this wasn't caused? How do we know these things couldn't have been avoided? What if these things could have been useful had we chosen a different path?



posted on Jan, 16 2010 @ 08:15 PM
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Originally posted by Gakus

Originally posted by woodwardjnr

Originally posted by Gakus

Originally posted by Kaytagg
There is no debate over evolution in the scientific community.


Evolution is a theory.

meaning it has yet to be proven

so theres no debate?

what a horrible line to use in any discussion rofl

thats the very definition of ignorance.



I thnk what Kaytagg is trying to say is, if you are a biologist who has studied evolution al of their scientific career (like Richard Dawkins)l. there is no debate as the evolution theory to biologists is as true as the laws of gravity for a physist.

The fact that most of us are not biologists and havn't studied evolution all of our lives means the debate only exists between those who do not really understand biology (like you and the OP).

No one questions gravity, yet People question evolution because it goes against everything their religious arrogance has taught them. People are so arrogant that they dont want to believe they evolved from apes and we are infact an ape. The 5th ape. So there is a big interest in people to try and prove evolution wrong.

hope that makes sense


again another person trying to push a theory off as a proven fact.


stop dude you look silly.

please learn what a theory means.


lol@moronic people honestly trying to do such things.


untill it is a proven fact and not just widely accepted as it because it makes you sleep a little better at night


please stop being such a ignorant fool


[edit on 15-1-2010 by Gakus]


So instead of stating your problem with the theory, you continue to use ad ho minim attacks and make yourself appear ignorant?



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