A hidden sign of the latter days

reply to post by letthereaderunderstand


"For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." Revelation 19:10

You can't just focus on all the "warm,fuzzy" parts of the Bible!

Have you read the Book of Revelation lately?

Originally posted by On the Edge
reply to post by letthereaderunderstand

 

"For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." Revelation 19:10

You can't just focus on all the "warm,fuzzy" parts of the Bible!

Have you read the Book of Revelation lately?

Currently living through it....let the reader understand

Peace

Originally posted by Lilitu

Originally posted by sezsue
Why would this be considered to be antisemitic? This is what God said in the Bible.

What I have to say means nothing anyway, it's what God has to say about the subject that counts.

No gods exist but Jews do exist and regardless of how it came about their cultural identity as "Israel" spans thousands of years. Being a christian does not afford you any share in "Israeli" identity or heritage.

"Israel" as defined by God, is a little different than "Israeli".

Modern Israel, is not "Israel", as defined by God.

The original people of Israel BROKE their covenant with God, by continuing to disobey even after being given many, many chances to amend their ways. As an example, God repudiated them, and cast them out. Even though there is a modern state of Israel now, that doesn't mean God has sanctioned the revival.

Since you don't even believe in God, are you even qualified to make that statement?

As I stated, this is what God says in the Bible. I think I believe what God says, more than you.

But you are entitled to your opinion, just as I am entitled to mine, which, as I said, is based on the Bible.

What's yours based on?

"God" Bless!

Sezsue

[edit on 10-1-2010 by sezsue]

Originally posted by sezsue
Since you don't even believe in God, are you even qualified to make that statement?

Ah things are beginning to come into sharper focus now. The Jews are no longer Israel because they don't believe in JeZeus and I am not "qualified" to express certain opinions because I don't believe in any gods at all. Is that it?

Edited to add that this is only the second time in less than a month that a christian has informed me I cannot render certain opinions by reason of my disbelief. The last time was right after this past xmas. It was a christian telling me I "don't have the right to say anything" about xmas because I don't accept as true the xmas fairy tale.

[edit on 10-1-2010 by Lilitu]

Originally posted by Lilitu

Originally posted by sezsue
Since you don't even believe in God, are you even qualified to make that statement?

Ah things are beginning to come into sharper focus now. The Jews are no longer Israel because they don't believe in JeZeus and I am not "qualified" to express certain opinions because I don't believe in any gods at all. Is that it?

Edited to add that this is only the second time in less than a month that a christian has informed me I cannot render certain opinions by reason of my disbelief. The last time was right after this past xmas. It was a christian telling me I "don't have the right to say anything" about xmas because I don't accept as true the xmas fairy tale.

[edit on 10-1-2010 by Lilitu]

Can I question your reading comprehension too?

Originally posted by Lilitu
Originally posted by sezsue

*my original statement*

Why would this be considered to be antisemitic?

This is what God said in the Bible. What I have to say means nothing anyway, it's what God has to say about the subject that counts.

*your reply*

No gods exist but Jews do exist and regardless of how it came about their cultural identity as "Israel" spans thousands of years. Being a christian does not afford you any share in "Israeli" identity or heritage.

*my reply*

"Israel" as defined by God, is a little different than "Israeli". Modern Israel, is not "Israel", as defined by God.

The original people of Israel BROKE their covenant with God, by continuing to disobey even after being given many, many chances to amend their ways. As an example, God repudiated them, and cast them out.

Even though there is a modern state of Israel now, that doesn't mean God has sanctioned the revival.

Since you don't even believe in God, are you even qualified to make that statement?

As I stated, this is what God says in the Bible. I think I believe what God says, more than you. But you are entitled to your opinion, just as I am entitled to mine, which, as I said, is based on the Bible.

What's yours based on?

"God" Bless!

Sezsue

As I said, READING COMPREHENSION???

I could certainly agree that the general people today are lazy and glutinous, However, what if it wasn't entirely their fault,.. Maybe the PTB are more to blame for their inability to be thin.
We live in quick food world, a place that for some is only livable by what it takes to survive, for example food, the poor, are often fat. Is it lazy or the kind of food they are forced to eat. Most that are uneducated do not know to eat healthy or have the ability to find the facts to the lack of quality of what they are eating. Many on a "budget" think the dollar menu is a good deal. when in actuality is a poor health choice that results in weight gain. Empty calories,.. Also the fatter they get, the lazier they become.

I say bring it on jealous wrath god, you don't have a thing on america

Originally posted by '___'omino
I say bring it on jealous wrath god, you don't have a thing on america

Ya know there is allot of fact to that. Though our politicians are rotten, the people of this country give to the world everyday.

Im confused,

Why is this under the Ancient civilizations, myths and Legends thread,and not the Religion threads?

reply to post by sezsue



I assure you my reading comprehension is intact. You are basing your argument on the fabled words of an imaginary being. It is just the same as if you said I believe thusly because Tinkerbell said so. If what you believe is true, if it represents reality then you ought to be able to demonstrate that the Jews are no longer "Israel" using real verifiable data but I won't be losing any sleep waiting for that. It isn't going to happen.

Now I understand that what you are referring to is the so-called "spiritual Israel" as illustrated by the Pauline doctrine of the wild olive branches. That however is purely delusional. It was just as delusional when the jews first began thinking they were god's chosen. The only difference between their belief and yours is that their cultural identity as god's chosen goes back almost to the dawn of human civilization whereas you got yours out of Jack Chick comic book. For you this concept exists only in your head but for the Jews it imbues everything that makes them Jewish.

Originally posted by Lilitu
reply to post by sezsue

 

Now I understand that what you are referring to is the so-called "spiritual Israel" as illustrated by the Pauline doctrine of the wild olive branches. That however is purely delusional. It was just as delusional when the jews first began thinking they were god's chosen. The only difference between their belief and yours is that their cultural identity as god's chosen goes back almost to the dawn of human civilization whereas you got yours out of Jack Chick comic book. For you this concept exists only in your head but for the Jews it imbues everything that makes them Jewish.

Again, READING COMPREHENSION?

you got yours out of Jack Chick comic book.

For you this concept exists only in your head

I already told you I got my information out of the Bible.

It was just as delusional when the jews first began thinking they were god's chosen. The only difference between their belief and yours is that their cultural identity as god's chosen goes back almost to the dawn of human civilization

AND, by YOUR criteria, most of the Jewish people living in Israel today wouldn't qualify as *real* historical Israelites either, since most of them are Ashkenazi Jews who didn't originate from that area, according to THE THIRTEENTH TRIBE, a book by Arthur Koestler, a Jew.

God's word tells me:

The original Israelites broke the covenant with God over and over again.

It also tells me God said because of that, He would find a new people, and make a NEW COVENANT, with the Gentiles. He said they would be spiritually circumcised, and that He would write His commandments in their hearts.

He sent His Son to die once for all men's sins, thereby ending the need for the Jewish animal sacrifices, which had to be done over and over again...and all this is written in the Old and New Testaments.

In case you don't know, the first five books of the Old Testament are what the Jewish people call the Torah.

So, like I said before, you are entitled to your opinion, just like I am entitled to mine, but my opinion is based on God's word, as written in the Bible.

And why do you care anyway, since, as you already stated, you don't even believe in God.

[edit on 10-1-2010 by sezsue]

Originally posted by sezsue
AND, by YOUR criteria, most of the Jewish people living in Israel today wouldn't qualify as *real* historical Israelites either, since most of them are Ashkenazi Jews who didn't originate from that area, according to THE THIRTEENTH TRIBE, a book by Arthur Koestler, a Jew.

You would seem to be stating your own opinion. We call that projection is psychology. For what it's worth, if someone tells me they are Jewish that is fine by me. I don't need to see their birth certificate. If on the other hand someone claims to be !Jewish! because their imaginary friend said so then that person is at best deranged.

I am beginning to see a pattern here. First you disenfranchise the Jews by claiming they aren't "Israel". Then you project upon me your view that Ashkenazi Jews aren't Jewish, and I just noticed your contribution to another thread in which you deny the Jewish Holocaust or at least you seek to minimize it by means of historic revisionism. You even went so far as to post a link to a National Alliance website in order to back your claims. That in and of itself is telling, not to mention shameful. But that's not all! In yet another recent thread you posted comments which can only be described as sympathetic to Hitler's treatment of the Jews. In that post you linked to yet another white supremicist site which is home to many articles sympathetic to Hitler's Germany and hostile to the Jews. Scatology all of it! Again this is absolutely shameful, but as your imaginary friend JeZeus said, You shall know them by their fruits.


[edit on 11-1-2010 by Lilitu]

Originally posted by Lilitu

Originally posted by sezsue
AND, by YOUR criteria, most of the Jewish people living in Israel today wouldn't qualify as *real* historical Israelites either, since most of them are Ashkenazi Jews who didn't originate from that area, according to THE THIRTEENTH TRIBE, a book by Arthur Koestler, a Jew.

You would seem to be stating your own opinion. We call that projection is psychology. For what it's worth, if someone tells me they are Jewish that is fine by me. I don't need to see their birth certificate. If on the other hand someone claims to be !Jewish! because their imaginary friend said so then that person is at best deranged.

I am beginning to see a pattern here. First you disenfranchise the Jews by claiming they aren't "Israel". Then you project upon me your view that Ashkenazi Jews aren't Jewish, and I just noticed your contribution to another thread in which you deny the Jewish Holocaust or at least you seek to minimize it by means of historic revisionism. You even went so far as to post a link to a National Alliance website in order to back your claims. That in and of itself is telling, not to mention shameful. But that's not all! In yet another recent thread you posted comments which can only be described as sympathetic to Hitler's treatment of the Jews. In that post you linked to yet another white supremicist site which is home to many articles sympathetic to Hitler's Germany and hostile to the Jews. Scatology all of it! Again this is absolutely shameful, but as your imaginary friend JeZeus said, You shall know them by their fruits.


[edit on 11-1-2010 by Lilitu]

First off, you are stating above that to have an OPINION, is to need psychological help?????

Secondly, you are trying to make me look like a RACIST, and a HATER?

Good one.

I don't know what your problem is, and I don't care either.

Anyone here can check to see if I ever said anything racist, or denied the *holocaust*, which I haven't.

I think your comments are more about your HATRED for God, and especially CHRISTIANS, than anything else.

Once again, that's my OPINION, see, we all have them.

It's dishonest, IN MY OPINION, to try to make it something it's not.

As it is, you have taken this thread completely off topic.

What's YOUR agenda?

Originally posted by bkaust

Originally posted by Tantalus
It's not right that the obesity levels are so high.. people just don't seem to not care about their excessive habits. But the part with God's wrath.. I can't believe in a God who actually seeks vengeance on what people do.

I have to say though, a bit off topic, but it's not always people 'excessive habits' - although i'm sure there are many many obese people due to gluttony, but from what i've heard the most obese american's are the ones living closer to the poverty line, have you noticed that the cheaper food is food in cans and breads and sodas? Lots of fat and sugar laden foods and artificial additives that help the food last longer on the shelves, so in some circumstances it's not so simple, plus genetic problems like thyroid problems and PCOS in women can make them gain ALOT of weight in a short amount of time, and i've heard many times that women who dont/cant breastfeed tend to have children more likely to suffer obesity throughout childhood & into adult life. So there is more to people being 'fat' then just excessive eating.

You made some good points.
A lot of obese people do live in poverty and develope poor eating
habits. But not all is under their control. Large chain supermarkets
which provide plenty of fresh vegatables and fruits do not do business
in poorer neighborhoods. But the convience stores abound. What do they
sell? junk food high in fats low in nutrition. Pasta is cheap and filling, but
loaded with carbs. Many kids grow up on these and the pattern is set.

The wrath of God spoken of concerned God's justice towards the poor.
In Amos, the women are called 'fat cows', not soley due to their size
but their wealth while others do not have enough to eat.

Originally posted by sezsue

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by heliosprime

 

Maybe if Israel were getting obese, since the passage is clearly talking about the Jews. Christians don't have a covenant with YHWH - nor does the nation of the United States. It's irritating to watch Christians twist and spin and pretend that the book actually talks about them, when in fact the people who penned it all doen had no clue that some heretical jewish cult might become a dominant religion, much less that there was a wad of continents on the other side of the planet that Christians would commit genocide on and then colonize...

*heretical jewish cult*???????

Maybe you should read that book again, if you ever did in the first place.

Israel BROKE the covenant with GOD, after receiving numerous chances to straighten up. GOD found them to be so *stiffnecked and hard hearted* HE basically said, since you rejected me over and over again, following other gods, I'll pick another people, the Gentiles!!!!

The end result? The Jewish people didn't recognize their Messiah, the religious leaders and secular leaders of the day schemed to have Him killed, to keep their power, and the ordinary people were so brainwashed and ignorant they went along with it.

They even said to Pilate, let His blood be on our heads and our children's heads. They are still paying the price for that to this day.

He's letting the Jewish people go their own way for now, until the *times of the Gentiles are fulfilled*.

P.S. Israel is no longer the Jewish people, it's anyone who believes Jesus Christ was the Messiah, who died for our sins.



[edit on 9-1-2010 by sezsue]

[edit on 9-1-2010 by sezsue]

[edit on 9-1-2010 by sezsue]

The Jews remain the chosen people. God made a covenant with
Abraham. This covenant, unlike the Mosaic covenant is unconditional.

The Jewish people "are in a real relationship with God based on a covenant that has never been revoked." "All covenants with Israel find fulfillment in Christ, who is the savior of all."

Originally posted by sezsue
... you are trying to make me look like a RACIST, and a HATER?

You made yourself look like a racist when you posted links to white supremicist websites to support your views. White supremicists are racist are they not? Christian Identity is a racist cult is it not?

reply to post by Lilitu


I'll write it out in crayon for you since no one else can. Originally, Israel consisted of 12 tribes. The single tribe of Judah was known as "Jews" or "Jewish." It is not accurate to call all Isralies "Jews" but it is accurate to call all Jews "Isralie." In the bible, the Northern Ten Tribes separated from the southern tribes of Judah and Benjamin. Benjamin merged with Judah and the two tribes were known as Judah. The southern tribesmen were known as "Jews" but the northern tribesmen were known as "The House of Israel." Most of these "Lost Tribes of Israel" ended up in northwest Europe in places like Britain, Ireland, Denmark, Netherlands, etc... In Genesis we read the birthrite of Joseph. Joseph's two sons, Manasseh and Ephraim, were given blessings by Jacob. Ephraim would be set before Manasseh, though he was the younger son. Ephraim would become a "Multitude of Nations" while Manasseh would become a "Great Nation." The British Empire was the largest multitude of nations this world ever saw by one central governing power.... and the USA came out of that as the worlds greatest single Nation. As we lose our ways with God, we grow deeper into the prophecied "Time of Jacob's Troubles."

For those interested in studying more on the lost tribes of Joseph and where the are found today, visit my thread on Joseph's birthrite....
www.belowtopsecret.com...


Followers of Christ were also known as "Spiritual Israelites" as well. The modern nation-state of Israel is the tribes of Judah and Benjamin which combined made the "Jewish People." Israel... when including all 12 tribes is much more than just Jews.

Originally posted by Thermo Klein

Why should anyone argue a "what if" this were true when the entire book has been shown as false. If one part of a book is fake you don't value the other part, you throw the whole book away.
Who was the twelfth disciple?
Thaddaeus (Matthew 10:2-4; Mark 3:16-19)
Judas, son of James (Luke 6:14-16)
Nathanael (John 21:2)
The other eleven were Simon (Peter), Andrew, James son of Zebedee, John, Philip, Bartholomew, Thomas, Matthew, James son of Alphaeus, Simon the Zealot, and Judas Iscariot.

Thaddaeus was Judas son of James. this was his surname which was used to avoid confusing him with Judas Iscariot.
Bartholomew was Nathanaels surname.(son of Thalmai)

This ridiculous book can't even agree on some of the very fundamental aspects of history. It's a SHAM brought forth to take your money, your power, and control your behavior.

Check out the geneology of Joseph, Father of Jesus...
The genealogies of Joseph given by Matthew and Luke contradict each other.

According to Matthew, Joseph was descended from David's son Solomon through 27 generations (David to Joseph inclusive). (Matthew 1:1-16)
But according to Luke, Joseph was descended from David's son Nathan through 42 generations (David to Joseph, inclusive). (Luke 3:23-31)

Matthew gives Jesus' paternal genealogy and Luke gives his maternal genealogy. there is no contradiction here.

Are there other gods?

Yes - "For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, yet for us there is one God, the Father." (1 Corinthians 8:5-6)

No - "How can you believe, who receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?" (John 5:44)

The book CAN'T be trusted so why bother arguing a single point from it??


[edit on 9-1-2010 by Thermo Klein]

Of course there may be other gods according to people and their beliefs however, there is only one true God. You should really do your homework before you go around stating false claims.

reply to post by Locoman8


This view is invalid, crayons notwithstanding. In my opinion it is but another anti-semitic attempt to disenfranchise and dehumanize the Jews. You can wrap it in the so-called gospel but it is still hate.

British Israelism

"Criticism
Lack of consistency with modern genetic findings
Human genetics does not support British Israelism's notion of a close lineal link between Jews and Western Europeans. Genetic research on the Y-chromosomes of Jews has found that Jews are closely related to other populations originating in the Middle East, such as Kurds, Turks, Armenians and Arabs, and concluded that:

Middle Eastern populations...are closely related and...their Y chromosome pool is distinct from that of Europeans. (Nebel, 2001.)[31]

Y-DNA Haplogroups J2 and, to a lesser extent, J1 are most commonly identified in Jewish people, which is in contrast to Western Europeans where a more distant Haplogroup R1b is the most commonly identified.[32][33][34][35]

Research Standards
Critics of British Israelism note that the arguments presented by promoters of the theory are based on unsubstantiated and highly speculative amateur research. Tudor Parfitt, an eminent researcher on the subject of the Lost Tribes and author of "The Lost Tribes: The History of a Myth", states that the proof cited by adherents of British Israelism is "of a feeble composition even by the low standards of the genre." (Parfitt,2003. p. 61.)[3] Similar statements are made by other critics of the theory: “When reading Anglo-Israelite literature, one notices that it generally depends on folklore, legends, quasi-historical genealogies and dubious etymologies. None of these sources prove an Israelite origin for the peoples of northwestern Europe. Rarely, if ever, are the disciplines of archeology, sociology, anthropology, linguistics or historiography applied to Anglo-Israelism. Anglo-Israelism operates outside the sciences. Even the principles of sound biblical exegesis are seldom used, for...whole passages of Scripture that undermine the entire system are generally ignored...Why this unscientific approach? This approach must be taken because to do otherwise is to destroy Anglo-Israelism's foundation.” (Orr, 1995.)"

reply to post by Lilitu


It's easy for critics to pass it off as a fantasy but the fact is that a people known as the "Scythians" emerged the very same time and place of the expulsion of the "Lost Tribes of Israel". No one knows where the lost tribes went. No one knows where the Scythians came from. It is believed that the Scythians were indeed some of or all of the Lost Tribes hidden under a new name. Then we have biblical prophecies claiming that the lost children of Israel would end up north and west of Israel on an island region. What is north and west of Israel? Why, Great Britain and Northwest Europe!

As far as you claiming anti-semtics on my part, it's not so. The modern nation if Israel is the ancient tribe of Judah and Benjamin. It's known fact. It's also known fact that all 12 tribes are not known as Jews. Jews weren't called "Jews" until the books of the Kings AFTER the division of the tribes... Northern tribe of Israel and southern tribe of Judah. Judah is "Jewish".... that's where the term "Jew" and "Jewish" comes from. Stop your "anti-semitic" rants as if we are a bunch of racists! What I gave you is pure fact and nothing favoring one group over another. Just facts. You may not believe in "british israleism" and that's fair. It's mostly speculation but for some of us, there's enough there to take it as fact. Doesn't mean you should call them out for that. I believe the bible to be true and the OP's claims to be legit. you don't. The end.