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It has a political ideology, whether it is common or not is irrelevant. It is politics.
ZM is not a political group in the common sense.
Yes it is. It has released its political view on the current climate, it also presents its own alternative system and ideology. It is currently attracting and recruiting members to support its view on the current situation and that accept the alternative ideology and vision it presents. It is a movement. Whether you think this is political or not doe not change the fact that it is inherently political. ZGM even explains itself as the Activist arm of the Venus Project. Do you know what being an activist means?
Yes, it proposes cultural and sociological changes, but it is not active in politics as we know it.
The utopian socialist thinkers did not use the term utopian to refer to their ideas. Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels referred to all socialist ideas that were simply a vision and distant goal for society as utopian. Utopian socialists were likened to engineers who drew up elaborate designs and concepts for creating a rational and more equal society, and were contrasted with scientific socialists, who were defined as an integrated conception of the goal, the means to producing it, and the way that those means will inevitably be produced through examining social and economic phenomena. This distinction was made clear in Engels' work Socialism: Utopian and Scientific. Utopian socialists were seen as wanting to expand the principles of the French revolution in order to create a more rational society and economic system, and despite being labeled as utopian by later socialists, their aims were not always utopian with their values often included rigid support for the scientific method and creating a society based upon such.
As you will see, The Venus Project is dedicated to confronting all of these problems by actively engaging in the research, development, and application of workable solutions. Through the use of innovative approaches to social awareness, educational incentives, and the consistent application of the best that science and technology can offer directly to the social system, The Venus Project offers a comprehensive plan for social reclamation in which human beings, technology, and nature will be able to coexist in a long-term, sustainable state of dynamic equilibrium.
You are interested in the current system, you are interested in all that is wrong with it, it is this interest that motivates a desire to change. This does not mean it is not political, it just means your view is not typical of the dominant political ideologies. You can brand yourself anyway you want, but Venus and ZGM are political to the core.
There is no affiiation with any political parties, the movement does not take any political sides, and we are simply not interested in the current system anyway.
5 a : the total complex of relations between people living in society b : relations or conduct in a particular area of experience especially as seen or dealt with from a political point of view
The Venus Project presents a bold, new direction for humanity that entails nothing less than the total redesign of our culture.
Please explain to me the how the use of theosophical religious beliefs in Part 1 of Zeitgeist are not religious in nature? How does Zeitgeist differentiate itself from the views it presents in part 1.
Also, whatever you are saying about Zeitgeist being a religious group, is just laughable.
Of course you can challenge religion, I never said you couldn't. Just don't B.S. people that your challenge is not, in and of itself, religious in nature. Because that is exactly what Zeitgeist is, and does. It presents its own religious views.
I can challenge any other religious or political system as much as I want to. If these systems are good and pure they shouldn't be afraid of our challenges, and you shouldn't be afraid either.
Nothing. In fact that is what I am doing, challenging the religious view endorsed and presented in Zeitgeist. I never said that there was anything wrong with challenging religion. If you can point out where I said that I will apologize and retract the statement.
Seriously, what's wrong with challenging religion?
Originally posted by Stop-loss!
Hello ATS. I had been hearing how good the video Zeitgiest was for quite some time. Before I joined this site, I was told by a friend to watch Zeitgiest so I can open my eyes, but I didnt understand at the time what he meant by it until I watched the whole thing. It wasn't until I saw the whole video that I started to get suspicious of what the government was really up to and how we are slaves in the system. I was wide awake and mad at what the army was really using me for and thats when I decided to get out until getting stop-lossed. Recently I have heard rumors that Zeitgiest was the work of the NWO and that some if not all of the related topics in the movie was nothing more then a fabrication just to support the Venus project. So ATS, this is the question at hand. What parts in all the Zeitgiest movies were actually real and very accurate, and if they are real then how did it help you in your struggles in life. I welcome any input that you guys might have.
[edit on 9-1-2010 by Stop-loss!]
This is going somewhere, just not in the direction you want it too. Did I say it was part of the NWO? I said it is New Age religious Propaganda. I clearly point out why, I clearly support my statements. If you would like to address these, I would appreciate it.
Originally posted by Ismail
reply to post by atlasastro
A very large post there. This isn't going to go anywhere. You think the ZGM is somehow part of the NWO, and somehow, a new age religion.
They are contradictory. ZGM contradicts itself a lot. I have noticed that too, and yes, I too found myself laughing at this.
Both these ideas are so contradictory with the message of the ZGM, that they make me laugh.
Thank you. I have educated myself in relation to ZGM. I now believe I have an informed view of ZGM and the Venus project. I support my views and explain why I feel the way I do.
You appear to be smart and educated.
I would say the paranoid bubble is the Zeitgeist View of the world. Look at the Movie again. It presents to you a thesis that you are being lied to, controlled and manipulated. It inspires fear and paranoia and then offers you a way out of that bubble via a utopian idealists dream, the VENUS project.
At this stage it's just a matter of choice. You prefer to see the world out of a parnoid bubble.
Then why rest on this! Become informed, research and educate yourself, look at all the views relating to anyone subject or topic. This is exactly what the OP asks. Is Zeitgeist accurate- No it is not. I point that out.
I am probably too naive.
When (if) the movement asks me for cash to remain a member, to bow to a leader, or worship a god, I'll quit.
That is really funny because that is what Zeitgeist is, a youtube video filled with delusions. LOOK at the video.
Until then, I'm in. And no amount of youtube video material (waste of time and paranoid delusional, they were) is going to make me change my mind.
Yes, a realistic one. One that is achievable. Heard of Acrosanti? www.arcosanti.org...
We probably both want change.
Perhaps you should give up assuming things. As you are not very good at it.
I assume you are a conservative, and want your country to go back to the good old days.
All ideas grow out of History, and they also shape history- Moa Tse-Tung.
I don't, because I believe that you'll only end up with more of the same. The change I want is absolute. Your world is dead, or dying, mine has yet to be born.
Your ideology is already marking out your enemies. This sounds like one of your absolutes.
To bad we couldn't get along.
The change I want is absolute. Your world is dead, or dying, mine has yet to be born.
Originally posted by Stop-loss!
I like Zeitgiest. If I never saw that movie in the first place, I never would have found my new home, ATS.
You are no different to any politics. The only difference between ZGM and mainstream politics and mainstream political activists in movements, are the fact that they are mainstream and you are not.
Originally posted by Alasian
reply to post by atlasastro
Look, I know what activism is. I've been an activist acting individually here in my country for many years, since my teens. That's not the point though, activism doesn't mean you follow mainstream politics of any sorts.
Your claim is that it is not the same in the common sense. It is. The only difference is that you seem to place a "common sense" on all other ideologies when the only differentiation is in the exposure to the mainstream. In the common sense of politics, ZGM is common of socialist movements.
Also, I didn't say that ZGM is not political, I just said it is not involved in politics in the average way the layman would consider "politics" to be.
Yes, so be frank that ZGM appeals to a person who wishes to SERVE THE STATE ACCORDING TO ZGM philosophy. ZGM expresses that the STATE is the GLOBE. This philosophy also includes the reliance on RELIGIOUS propaganda to promote and further the ZGM philosophy and POLITICAL ideology that a PERSON uses to SERVE the state.
To be frank, the word "politics" comes from the greek word "politeia" ΠΟΛΙΤΕΙΑ, which means "city-state". Someone who is involved with serving his or her state, is considered to be a citizen, πολίτης -politis- in Greek.
Do you see any problems with using a religion to lie and mislead so as to promote that VENUS project?
The Zeitgeist movement is a politics movement in the sense that it is involve with creating a new kind of community (i.e. the Venus project).
I don't see anything bad with that buddy.
As I said before, please don't spew the ZGM political and religious propaganda.
Also, please, don't consider America or ANY country in the world to be a democracy. Democracy was only achieved once in the past, by the ancient Greeks, and that lasted ONLY for a few years. Even though it didn't last long, I blame immaturity of the times, not that now we are more mature, but at least the Venus project, and Zeitgeist movement are trying to BRING ABOUT that level of maturity, so the world can pass on to a TRUE democratic state. If you don't like this, maybe you feel better accustomed to the fascist dictatorships that rule the world today. America proclaims itself "the biggest democracy in the world" but America has never been democratic, it has never been a republic either. It was not designed to be one, and that is why America and the whole world need this change that Zeitgeist is PROPOSING. Remember this always!!! We are just PROPOSING this form of change, not trying to impose it on anyone.
VENUS project is all about control.
So all I have to say to anyone who still thinks that Zeitgeist is part of the NWO, is that yeah!!! We agree man, we ARE the New World Order!!! We PROPOSE to bring a NEW WORLD ORDER that will change this shameful existence which exists now! We want to create a community where people are not slaves to money, we want to live without the governments controlling us.
I agree. As I have stated in an early post, I believe VENUS will be synthesized in part, into the evolution of society.
If you agree with us, feel free to come join and help us bring about this New World Order. And just to leave confusions out of this, lets make it New and Better World Order, for all the people, all life forms to live harmoniously in coexistance with each other. It is the only way.
If Zeitgeist was not keeping secrets, why did it need to lie in part 1.
On the other hand, if you do not agree with Zeitgeist, nobody is forcing you to join or anything. You don't even have to speak of the Zeitgeist movement anymore if you don't like it. I assure you, we don't have any secret plans to take over the world hahaha, we have OPEN plans to take over the world. Our plans are to take over the world as humanity united, and not as money united!
Well answer them then. Answer the questions I have asked relating to the religious propaganda in Part 1. It is that simple.
atlasastro, please feel free to oppose the ZGM at all times, I for one am happy to answer your questions about the movement's ideology and I think any ZG members in ATS will be happy as well.
"Now if you would please answer my questions, from this post and my last, instead of spewing Zeitgeist and VENUS project religious and political propaganda, I would appreciate it."
-As I said, I am happy to answer any questions, but when asked in this manner I will refuse to. I don't "spew" anything, I am a thinking human being, and any other assumption apart from that is an insult not only towards me but firstly upon yourself. Have a nice one.
As I said, you are not very good.
Originally posted by Ismail
reply to post by atlasastro
Ok, i'll agree I am not that good at assuming. But I'll go out on a limb here.
I assume that you are assuming things about me.
Do you realize the incredible irony of this statement? Given that the ZGM is built upon a movie based upon claims we have all been indoctrinated.
The way you come across is that I have somehow been "indoctrinated" by a politico/religious movement. I have not been.
You are a liar.
I have already adressed your accusations that the TGM has a religious agenda. I have studied the material you have provided. I have already told you that I personally found it unconclusive.
There are clear links to theosophy. I know it is hard for you to take the truth. But there it is.
Zeitgeist is an atheist movement, Peter Joseph, and Jaques Fresco are both hardcore atheists. So yeah, that's still got me laughing, no matter what wavy lines you are trying to draw between TZM and Theosophy. I admitted to some similarities. The Venus project also advocates love of our fellow man. Does that make it christian ?
It is the same philosophy, so your point is meaningless other appeal to point out you and others already had a political stance that is reflected by the Venus project.
Let's move on to politics. I did not wait for the Venus Project to come around to start thinking the way I do. I have been a militant leftwing anarchist for many years. The Venus Project is a perfect form of anarchy. I have met many other anarchists in the movement, who joined for the same reason I did.
Yes, you are an Ideologue.
I've said it once and I'll say it again. This going nowhere. I am not an adolescent who has been hoodwinked into some crazy beliefs by some wacky gurus. I am a full grown human being who has made a deliberate political choice. It's your choice whether you want to agree with me or not. But do not make the mistake of believing that my choices have not been thought out, or carefully studied. I am an ideologue.
Main Entry: ideo·logue
Variant(s): also idea·logue \ˈī-dē-ə-ˌlȯg, -ˌläg\
Etymology: French idéologue, back-formation from idéologie
1 : an impractical idealist : theorist
2 : an often blindly partisan advocate or adherent of a particular ideology
But do not make the mistake of believing that my choices have not been thought out, or carefully studied. I am an ideologue.
Really. That seem exactly what You and ZGM are telling the WHOLE WORLD.
That also you can disagree with. But it is not your place to tell me that I, or the people who believe what I do, are wrong.