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The Covert Destabilization of The United States?

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posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 11:57 PM
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This thread will most likely be intensely unpopular with the "U.S. Government can do no right crowd" but I feel it is a VERY valid question to ask and more than a little bit of a given seeing as to how there are people who wish to see the U.S. fall. We have done it to others, so I think it's a given that it is most likely being done to us. First, I would like to say I do NOT believe that the U.S. government can do no wrong, I am not arguing that some of the rancor that the government gets is not justifiable and earned. At any rate, a bit of information on destabilization.

The definition:

Main Entry: de·sta·bi·lize
Pronunciation: \(ˌ)dē-ˈstā-bə-ˌlīz\
Function: transitive verb
Date: 1924
1 : to make unstable
2 : to cause (as a government) to be incapable of functioning or surviving
— de·sta·bi·li·za·tion \(ˌ)dē-ˌstā-bə-lə-ˈzā-shən\ noun

SOURCE

Would not funding and encouraging anti-government sentimentality through encouraging mistrust be a strong destabilizatory method? I think it would and wonder if it is in fact happening as we speak.




posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 12:01 AM
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Demoralization, Destabilization, Insurgency,Normalization

This amazing interview was done back in 1985 with a former KGB agent who was trained in subversion techniques. He explains the 4 basic steps to socially engineering entire generations into thinking and behaving the way those in power want them to. It’s shocking because our nation has been transformed in the exact same way, and followed the exact same steps.

Interviewer, G. Edward Griffin: Our conversation is with Mister Yuri Alexandrovich Bezmenov. Mr. Bezmenov was born in 1939 in a suburb of Moscow. He was the son of a high ranking Soviet Army officer. He was educated in the elite schools inside the Soviet Union and became an expert in Indian culture and Indian languages. He had an outstanding career with Novesti, which was the, and still is, I should say, the Press arm or the press agency of the Soviet Union. It turns out that this is a front for the KGB. He escaped to the West in 1970 after becoming totally disgusted with the Soviet System. And he did this at great risk to his life. He is certainly one of the world’s experts on the subject of Soviet propaganda and disinformation and active measures.

When, the Soviets use the phrase ideological subversion what do they mean by it?

Yuri Bezmenov: Ideological subversion is, is the process which is legitimate, overt and open. You, you can see it with your own eyes. All, all you have to do, all American mass media has to do is to unplug their bananas from their ears, open up their eyes and they can see it. There is no mystery. There is nothing to do with espionage.

I know that espionage, intelligence gathering looks more romantic. It sells more deodorants through their advertising, probably. That’s why your Hollywood producers are so crazy about James Bond type, in free words.

But in reality, the main emphasis of the KGB is not in the area of intelligence at all. According to my opinion and the opinion of many defectors of my caliber only about fifteen percent of time, money, and manpower is spent on espionage as such. The other eighty-five percent is a slow process which we call either ideological subversion, or active measures, (~Activitia perionachia, in the language of the KGB), or psychological warfare. What it basically means is to change the perception of reality of every American to such an extent that despite the abundance of information no one is able to come to sensible conclusions in the interests of defending themselves, their families, their community, and their country. It’s a great brainwashing, process which goes very slow and is divided into four basic stages. The first one being demoralization.

It takes from fifteen to twenty years to demoralize a nation. Why that many years? Because this is the minimum number of years which requires to educate one generation of students in the country of, of your enemy exposed to the ideology of the enemy. In other words Marxist-Leninism ideology is being pumped into the soft heads of, of at least three generations of American students without being challenged or counter-balanced by the basic values of Americanism, American patriotism. …

Most of the activity of the Department was to compile huge amount, volume of information on individuals who were instrumental in creating public opinion, publishers, editors, journalists, actors, educationalists, professors of political science, members of Parliament, representatives of business circles. Most of these people were divided roughly in two groups, those that would tow the Soviet foreign policy. They would be promoted to the positions of power through media and public opinion manipulation. Those who refused the Soviet influence in their own country would be character assassinated or executed physically, counter-revolution.

Same way, as in the small town of Hue, in South Vietnam, several thousands of Vietnamese were executed in one night when city was captured by Vietcong for only two days. And American CIA could never figure out, how could possibly Communists know each individual, where he lives, where, where to get him and would be arrested in one night, basically, arrested four hours before dawn, put on a van, taken out of the city limits and shot? The answer is very simple. Long before Communists occupied city there was extensive network of informers, local Vietnamese citizens who knew absolutely everything about people who are instrumental in public opinion, including barbers and taxi drivers. Everyone who was sympathetic to United States was executed.

Same thing was done under the guidance of, of the Soviet Embassy in Hanoi. And same thing I was doing in New Delhi. To my horror, I discovered, that in the files were people who were doomed to execution. There were names of, of pro-Soviet journalists with whom I was personally friendly.

G. Edward Griffin : Pro-Soviet?

Yuri Bezmenov: Yes. They were idealistically-minded Leftists who made several visits to USSR and yet the KGB decided that counter-revolution or drastic changes in political structure in India, they would have to go.

G. Edward Griffin : Why is that?

Yuri Bezmenov: Because they know too much. Simply because, you see, the useful idiots, the Leftists who are idealistically believing in the beauty of Soviet socialist or Communist or whatever system when they get disillusioned, they become the worst enemies. That’s why my KGB instructors specifically made a point, never bother with Leftists. Forget about these political prostitutes. Aim higher. This was my instruction. Try to get into, into wide circulation, established conservative media. Reach the filthy rich movie makers, intellectuals, so-called academic circles, cynical, ego-centric people who can look into your eyes with an angelic expression and tell you a lie. These are the most recruit-able people. People who lack moral principles who are either too greedy or to suffer from self-importance, they feel that they matter a lot. These are the people who KGB wanted very much to recruit.

Interviewer, G. Edward Griffin: To eliminate the others to execute the others, don’t they serve some purpose? Wouldn’t they be the ones to rely on?

Yuri Bezmenov: They serve purpose only at the stage of destabilization of a nation. For example, your Leftists in the United States, all these professors and all these beautiful civil rights defender, they are instrumental in the process of subversion, only to destabilize the nation. When the job is completed they are none, they are not needed any more. They know too much. Some of them, when, when they see the Marxist-Leninists come to power, obviously, they get offended. They think that they will come to power. That will never happen, of course. They will be lined up against the wall and shot. But, they may turn into the most bitter enemies of Marxist-Leninism when they come to power. And that’s what happened in Nicaragua. You remember, most of the former Marxist-Leninist either were put to prison. And one of them split and now he’s working against the Sandinistas. It happened in Grenada, when Maurice Bishop, he was already a Marxist. He was executed by a new Marxist who was more Marxist than this Marxist. The same happened in Afghanistan. First there was Taraki. He was killed by Amin and Amin was killed by Brabak Karbakil with the help of the KGB. The same happened in Bangladesh when Mungi Burackman, the very pro-Soviet Leftist, was assassinated by his own Marxist-Leninist military comrades. It’s the same pattern everywhere. The moment they serve their purpose, all these useful idiots are used, either be executed entirely, or exiled or put in prison. Many former Marxists are in Cuba, are in prison.

So, basically, you in America are stuck with demoralization. And unless, even if you start right now, here this minute, educating a new generation of Americans, it will still take fifteen or twenty years to turn the tide of ideological perception of reality and normalcy and, and patriotism.

The result? The result you can see. Most of the people who graduated in the sixties, dropouts or half-baked intellectuals are now occupying the positions of power in the government, civil service, business, mass media, educational system. You are stuck with them. You cannot get rid of them. They are contaminated. They are programmed to think and react to certain stimuli in a certain pattern. You cannot change their mind even if, if you expose them to authentic information. Even if you prove that white is white and black is black. You cannot change the basic perception and illogical behavior. In other words, these people, the process of demoralization is complete and irreversible. To get rid society of these people you have, you need another twenty or, fifteen years to educate a new generation of patriotically-minded and, and common, common sense people who would be acting in favor and in the interests of United States society.

Interviewer, G. Edward Griffin: And yet these people who have been programmed and as you say, in-placed, …. Yuri Bezmenov: Yes. Interviewer, G. Edward Griffin: … who are favorable to an opening with the Soviet concept. These are the very people who would be marked for extermination?
To be continued......



posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 12:03 AM
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Yuri Bezmenov: Most of them, yes. Simply because the psychological shock when, when they will see, the future, what the beautiful society of equality and social justice, means in practice. Obviously, they will revolt. They, they will be very unhappy, frustrated people. A Marxist-Leninist regime does not tolerate these people. They, obviously, they will join the leagues of dissenters, dissidents. Unlike in present United States, there will be no place for dissent in future Marxist-Leninist America. Here you can, you can get popular, like Daniel Ellsberg, or filthy rich, like Jane Fonda, for being dissident, for criticizing your Pentagon. In future these people will simply be, squich, squashed like cockroaches. Nobody is going to pay them nothing for their beautiful, noble ideas of equality. This they don’t understand. And, and will be greatest shock for them, of course.

The demoralization process in the United States is basically completed already. For the last thirty-five years. Actually, it is over-fulfilled because demoralization reaches such areas where previously, not even Comrade Andropov [1911-1984] and all his experts would, would even dream of such a tremendous success. Most of it is done by Americans to Americans thanks to lack of moral standards. As I mentioned before exposure to true information does not matter any more. A person who is demoralized is unable to assess true information. The facts tell nothing to him. Even if I shower him with information, with authentic proof, with documents, with pictures. Even if I take him, by force, to the Soviet Union and show him concentration camp he will refuse to believe it until he, he is going to receive a kick in his, in his fat bottom. When the military boot crashes his, then he will understand. But not before that. That is the tragic of this situation of demoralization.

The next stage is destabilization. This time, the subverter does not care about your ideas, the patterns of your consumption, whether you eat junk food and get fat and flabby. It doesn’t matter anymore. This time, and it only takes from two to five years to destabilize a nation, what matters is essentials, economy, foreign relations, defense systems. And you can see it quite clearly in sensitive areas as defense and economy. The Marxist-Leninist ideas in the United States is absolutely fantastic. I could never have believed in fourteen years ago [1971] when I landed in this part of the world that the process would go that fast.

The next stage is crisis. If, if, it may take only six weeks to bring a country to the verge of crisis. You see it in Central America now. And after crisis, with a violent change in power, structure, and economy you have the period of so-called normalization will last indefinitely. Normalization is a cynical expression borrowed from Soviet propaganda. When the Soviet tanks moved into Czechoslovakia in ‘68 Brezhnev said, ‘now brother Czechoslovakia is normalized.’ This is what will happen in the United States if you allow all these schmucks to promise all the goodies and paradise on earth to destabilize your economy, to eliminate the principle of free market competition, and to put a big brother government in Washington, D.C. with benevolent dictators like Walter Mondale who will promise lots of things, never mind if they are fulfilled or not. He will go to Moscow to kiss the bottoms of the new generation of Soviet assassins. Never mind. He will create false illusions that the situation is under control. Situation is not under control. Situation is disgustingly out of control.

Most politicians, media, and educational system frames another generation who think they are living at the peace time. False. The United States is in a state of war against the basic principles and the foundations of this system.

And the initiator of this war is not comrade Andropov of course. It’s the system. However ridiculous it may sound, the world Communist system, the world Communist conspiracy. Whether I scare some people or not, I don’t give a hoot. If, if you are not scared by now, nothing can scare you. But, you don’t have to be paranoid about it. What actually happens now, that unlike myself you have literally several years to live on unless the United States wake up. The time bomb is ticking. Every second the disaster is coming closer and closer. Unlike myself, you will have nowhere to defect to, unless you want to live in Antarctica with penguins. This is the last country of freedom and possibility.

G. Edward Griffin: OK, what do we do? What is your recommendation to the American people?

Yuri Bezmenov: The immediate thing that comes to my mind, of course, there must be an immediate, very strong national effort to educate people in the spirit of real patriotism, number one. Number two, explain the real danger of socialist, Communist, whatever welfare state, big brother government. If people will fail to grasp the impending danger of their development, nothing ever can help United States. You might kiss goodbye to your freedoms, including freedoms to homosexuals, prison inmates, all this freedom will vanish, evaporate in five seconds, including your precious life.

The second thing, the moment at least part of the United States is convinced that the danger is real, they have to force the American government, and I’m not talking about sending letters, signing petitions and all these beautiful noble activity. I’m talking about forcing the United States government to stop aiding Communist government.

SOURCE



posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 12:17 AM
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Well I don't have much to say except it is very possible these stages have been going on for sometime (and it's working).



posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 02:12 AM
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It's all divide and conquer man. It's the simplest form of war. Let the enemy kill themselves off.

Nice avatar signals.



posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 12:39 PM
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Can a house that is divided, stand? The old cliche says not. We've been divided as a country now for many years. When there are states talking about seceding....this lends proof to this. But we still stand. There have been many things in our history that have come close to ripping us apart. But we've always managed to come through, haven't we?

I don't concern myself so much anymore with communism, as I do with religious ideologies interfering with our freedoms. This may be the biggest threat we now face. It's coming from "without", rather than from within. But so many passive vs. aggressive ideas on how it should be handled is what's tearing us apart from the inside.

And greed of course. But that's a different thread.



posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 01:55 PM
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reply to post by Signals
 


Seems to be working rather well huh? That's not including the standard crap we are doing to ourselves *IE Republicans vs Democrats*. And yes, kewl avatar.


[edit on 15-1-2010 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]



posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 01:56 PM
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reply to post by ladyinwaiting
 


From what I am seeing we are on the brink of tearing ourselves apart. We can no longer it seems band together for the common good without bickering. And I think that is what will kill us.

And the article included wasn't so much included as a claim. Just an example of claims that have been made as far as destabilization of the US goes.

[edit on 15-1-2010 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]



posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 02:00 PM
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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 


Its not so Covert , Its in your face.

6 Lobbyist per Congressman

One lobbyist spends avg. 37,000. per day

Speacil Interest Wins

American public Lose

No Covert Actions needed



posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 02:06 PM
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reply to post by Sean48
 


I think you are missing the context in which I am meaning.........



posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 02:07 PM
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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 


Didn't read the entire article, I'll admit .

Read first page , my apoligies sir



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 07:11 PM
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reply to post by Sean48
 


No worries. But I wasn't saying the government wasn't doing things it's self unintentionally to destabilize it's self but was more wondering if the rancor isn't being helped by outside sources.



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 07:11 PM
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Try expressing your appreciation toward the US Presidency (Obama or Bush) either on this Forum or any other Forum or Blog and you`ll get shredded to pieces by hoards of ranting and raving crowds. You say something nice about one of them you`ll already have 60% of the people against you.

So that demonstrates that the U.S. is already in the process of being destabilized. Im no big patriot or idolizer of the U.S. but the country is taking beatings from all sides - from religious and political extremists of foreign countries as well as inside.

Many of the Hate-America threads around here that are widely considered to be "factual" would actually pass as libel in any court-of-law.

So yes, yes, yes I very much support the questions raised in your OP.
.



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 07:15 PM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


Exactly, even the moderate approach is attacked as just being a "brain dead follower" despite the fact you may not be defending but just taking a middle ground route, which is very troubling to me.



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 07:32 PM
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In frequenting sites such as this for awhile, you get a feel for the stream of thought that is en vogue. Prior to being here I was not sympathetic to the U.S. Government. It is only through witnessing the unquestioning and hive-minded anti-U.S. stance I started looking into the subject.

If everyone were ranting pro-U.S. in such an irrational manner, I would probably take an anti-U.S. stance. But things have changed since the 90s. It appears that it has become entirely normal to be fiercly unsupportive of ones own country.



[edit on 20-1-2010 by Skyfloating]



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 07:45 PM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


I tend to always take a middle ground approach because it is my opinion that is where the truth is. It is my experience nothing is as bad or as good as a great deal of people would have you believe. Which gets me firmly categorized into the pro side for some reason which I think indicates how much certain people have to put omph into their beliefs. If you get what I mean.



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 04:37 AM
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Yes. You have the Demonizers on one side and the Idolizers on the other side, and in the middle you have undistorted perception of the truth. And most often the truth is neither as good or as bad as it is made.

Look at the few replies this thread gets and at how many threads there are on "Obama Anti-Christ" and "Bush Anti-Christ", and the thousands of replies they got. Look at the political talk-shows on TV that define journalism as digging up dirt on someone rather than researching and then presenting a balanced view.

The US can be re-stabilized by reducing the divide and going beyond black/white-thinking as often as possible.



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 04:41 AM
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Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
I don't concern myself so much anymore with communism, as I do with religious ideologies interfering with our freedoms. This may be the biggest threat we now face.


Its the extreme-left (Communism) and the extreme-right (Religious Fanatics) that cause trouble. The very concept of "extreme" indicates an artificial imposition.



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 05:19 AM
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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 


Watcher -great thread.

Heres a video for that interview and Yuri does make some very good points -particularly about the mass media and the need for people to start 'unplugging the bananas from their ears'.



Cheers.



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 06:34 PM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


All helped by mankind's tendency towards sensationalism...... Which is why I think Hitler said what he did about lying big. It's more sensational and gets more attention.

reply to post by karl 12
 


Awesome, thank you. The video to the article I posted..


[edit on 20-1-2010 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]



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