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Intelligence on ATS

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posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 11:23 PM
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reply to post by adifferentbreed
 



some on here do tend to have a very high level of self importance, and act as if they are above reproach


good point, but you followed up with a lot of "why me".it happens. some might say you just exhibited it in your OP. welcome to the all decieving ego.




posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 11:24 PM
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I appreciate, respect and relate to the OP. Over time we modify our typing skills and in this day and age there is a vast amount of different races of people from different countries using different languages and forms of communication. The reason as to why grammar and spelling are important is because a lot of members do not have English as their primary language and many members use English to "XYZ" translation tools to interpret posts so they can contribute to ATS.

If grammar and spelling where a major fault on ATS, we would possibly see less international contribution.

On the other hand, grammar and spelling is important because it raises the level of presentation of this website. Some people will not take someones opinion correctly if the spelling and grammar is incorrect because they themselves may take pride in English literature, main stream media, professional people etc; they all (for some reason) only take posts that contain this correctness, seriously.

If you wish to be heard by everyone, by those people who deem illiteracy unworthy, by those people who are not English speakers and by those people who consider themselves superior; then use proper grammar and spelling. Get FireFox and the addon "Spellcheck" (or whatever it is called nowadays), its great if your a fast typist like myself and it highlights everything in red, easy to correct - and learn new words (thesaurus addon).

It makes you look more professional, people listen to you more, your words get translated into several languages and spread across the planet; and it maintains ATS.com's professional presentational qualities making this website a more valid source of intelligent authors/bloggers/speakers/scholars etc.

I learned the hard way back in the day on BBS, after all; this is not a cell phone text communication method.


I do understand what the OP is saying though, I've been there myself and questioned the same thing before in other forums.



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 11:32 PM
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to be perfectly honest, every post on here is of social interaction. it's not scholastic nor is it of a professional nature. i really don't care how anyone communicates in the round and those that do need to leave that attutide where it belongs. the bottom line is we use grammar to communicate and as long as the point is clear the purpose is fulfilled, regardless of how.



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 11:33 PM
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Walking is a great form of exercise. If the average person would spend just thirty minutes a day walking, they would soon start to notice the many benefits that it brings. Not only is this practice good for the body, it also helps clear the mind. Almost anyone can benefit from this simple routine and I highly recommend that everybody put aside thirty minutes of their day for a nice, leisurely stroll to the nearest park.

walking is teh best! my friend told me 5 yrs ago to start done it every day because it makes you happy and fit! i just think to myself "is 30 mins really so much time for something so importent!" i will tell all frends to do this also so they can be fit and happy to.

------------------------------

I don't think either of these examples tells us how intelligent the person happens to be. But I do know that instinctively I would have more patience and probably take more seriously the person who wrote the first paragraph. Not because I am assuming the second person is stupid and their level of intelligence is lower than mine. It's just human nature I think.



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 11:39 PM
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reply to post by Dark Ghost
 


your examples remind me of something i found out at my first sales job. people are more likely to pay attention and buy from someone they think is dumber than them.

but your point highlights associated communication. people pay more attention to ideas/emotions that are expressed in a similar manner to how they communicate.

it's not that hippies can't smoke a bowl with a politician - they just don't speak the same language.



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 11:39 PM
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Mmm, the interesting thing about threads such as this one, is that they reveal that for every person who may be a so called "spelling/grammar nazi" there's just as many who are unabashed about being a "oh, so you think you're better than me nazi" ...

We really need to get cubical coins ... this metaphor is getting tiresome.



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 11:53 PM
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I don't think either of these examples tells us how intelligent the person happens to be. But I do know that instinctively I would have more patience and probably take more seriously the person who wrote the first paragraph. Not because I am assuming the second person is stupid and their level of intelligence is lower than mine. It's just human nature I think
reply to post by Dark Ghost
 


I agree with you Dark Ghost. Taking a little bit of extra time always looks
sharper. More attractive, easier to read. It's the ease of reading that
matters to me.

[edit on 8-1-2010 by randyvs]



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 11:54 PM
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reply to post by schrodingers dog
 

edit:
nevermind


[edit on 9-1-2010 by LadySkadi]



posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 12:36 AM
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It is true that those that take time to ensure that their thoughts are clear, concise, while citing references and examples, and not grievously littered with grammatical or spelling errors, are going to be taken more seriously.

While although everyone has an opinion, not everyone has a good opinion. These are subtle ways that many of us can use to determine what is worthy of their time to read. None of us are able to read every post on ATS, and few are willing to decipher a morass of discrepant and incongruous thoughts that are so woefully misspelled that it would take the skills of a psychic to sort out.

One can liken it to the endless mass of "Experts" that the MSM use on their broadcasts. They all have convenient titles that are generally made up to begin with. They all are outspoken with plenty to say on anything (and sometimes on nothing at all). Yet do we (or even should we) take their opinions equally? Of course not! Those that are able to convey their ideas with clarity, while speaking eloquently with proper enunciation, and a flawless delivery are given higher regards than those who stutter, stammer, bumble, falter, and slur their speech.

How you convey your ideas is just as important as the ideas themselves, perhaps not idealistically, but in a practical sense such is, and must be, the case whether one likes it or not.

Personally, however, I overlook spelling errors or grammatical errors (heaven knows I make plenty myself), but I will be the first to bring them up when it serves the purpose of irony. If someone were to flaunt their intellectual superiority over another and they happen to only prove the opposite with their spelling and grammatical errors, then it is fair game to point out the irony. Otherwise, it's not too big of a deal to me.

[edit on 9-1-2010 by fraterormus]



posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 01:15 AM
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reply to post by adifferentbreed
 

People forget, or don't care that this is a global site. We have all kinds, many may not speak English as a native language, maybe some have handicaps that making typing difficult. There are lots of possibilities, picking on people for silly errors just shows your own ignorance (and bigotry). I suggest ignoring people like that, they have little to contribute.



posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 01:17 AM
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Originally posted by adifferentbreed
I've noticed on here a definate attitude of superiority here on ATS from alot of people, and was just wondering where it comes from and if it's really necessary. If someone uses poor grammar, spelling, or punctuation, does it automatically make their opinion less valid? Some people are much better at verbally expressing themselves, why should they be dismissed as some how having a less than intelligent response?
I think by and large we are mostly all here for the same basic reason. However, some on here do tend to have a very high level of self importance, and act as if they are above reproach. I for one know I definitely verbalize better than I write, does that make me less intelligent? I may not have read all of the history some of you have, but I can and do learn from others on here, if I am interested in the topic. Forgetting the left vs. right arguements, as it does happen on both sides, is there really an excuse for having a less than civil discourse?
I've already stated I verbalize better, and I do not know nor claim to know everything. In fact I think it's a good day, when I learn something on here, no matter from whom. I only have one foe on here, and I still don't understand that one, so it's not like I'm being picked on. It's just a theme I see from some and was just wondering if book smarts are the only thing important on here. Should not your ability to analyze things as well as life experiences count?
I may not be as book smart as some of the people on here but, I
1. Speak two languages.
2. Play a musical instrument, competently.
3. Sail a 36' boat single handed, from the gulf coast of Florida to Bermuda, then down island and back.
4. Cook rather well.
5. I have my Harley Davidson PHD Master of Technology. Highest you can get)
6. Built 2 show winning motorcycles.
7. Raised 3 wonderful children.
8. Did 6 years in the US Army
9. I've traveled all over the US on a motorcycle, for various reasons, met some really interesting people.
10. I lived in Germany for 4 years.
11. Traveled around Europe while I was there.
12. Worked with several famous entertainers as a stage hand.
13. Been involved in a riot.
14. I was a member of a 1% MC club for several years.
I'm sure my life has been very different from alot of yours. However, I'm sure many of you have had at least some of these same experiences, or abilities. So, does my lack of knowledge in some areas make me any less intelligent, or do my different life experiences maybe bring something else to the table? I think we all tend to forget that all of us have different life experiences that make us unique. Different people, places, languages (another reason for poor spelling etc.), ethnic back grounds, as well as any other myriad of variables should make this a more interesting place, instead of a limited one. I have noticed some people post a response, maybe a few, and as soon as someone goes after their intellect, they disappear from the thread..........is that really the way to make a valid point? Anyhow, thoughts on this.........or am I noticing something that doesn't really exist?


To be honest, I haven't read any replies to this post yet, just wanted to quickly say, after having read it, I want to sign up for a digg account just so I can digg it, like I dig it!



Very nicely put, if ya don't mind my saying so!



posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 01:25 AM
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I taught at the community college level for eleven years and required several papers, some short, some long, from my students each semester. Since I was teaching computer graphics and digital multimedia I didn't grade the grammar, but rather whether they accomplished the assigned task.

For the graphics class the first paper required was what I called the Look/See paper. This required the student to find an object they were absolutely familiar with, one they were positive they knew every aspect of, then look at it until they saw something about it they'd never noticed before. Then they had to write a paper, at least one page long, describing what they discovered and how it changed their perception of it. Later they had to write a paper defining the difference between looking and seeing.

I learned then to read beyond the spelling and grammar to the core of what they were trying to express. This was great practice for ATS, as I hardly notice the grammar or spelling, unless they interfere too much with the message.

Focus on saying what you mean as clearly as you can, and don't worry about the other stuff. It will grow on you via osmosis, if you write often you'll find your grammar and spelling improve through contact.



posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 01:37 AM
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Originally posted by apacheman
I taught at the community college level for eleven years and required several papers, some short, some long, from my students each semester. Since I was teaching computer graphics and digital multimedia I didn't grade the grammar, but rather whether they accomplished the assigned task.

For the graphics class the first paper required was what I called the Look/See paper. This required the student to find an object they were absolutely familiar with, one they were positive they knew every aspect of, then look at it until they saw something about it they'd never noticed before. Then they had to write a paper, at least one page long, describing what they discovered and how it changed their perception of it. Later they had to write a paper defining the difference between looking and seeing.

I learned then to read beyond the spelling and grammar to the core of what they were trying to express. This was great practice for ATS, as I hardly notice the grammar or spelling, unless they interfere too much with the message.

Focus on saying what you mean as clearly as you can, and don't worry about the other stuff. It will grow on you via osmosis, if you write often you'll find your grammar and spelling improve through contact.




Thank you very much, for articulating that. It was quite timely a thing for me to read!

;D



posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 01:59 AM
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As far as intelligence goes, I've found that the more actual experiences someone has in different places, in different social levels, and at different jobs the greater the opportunity for them to compare and think about them and draw conclusions from the similarities and differences. The more opportunities, the greater chance the mind is stimulated to think and connect across different levels from different places.

I say opportunity because if the individual doesn't take advantage of being and doing in different places, then they'll still be dumb as a post. They might be a widely travelled and well-versed idiot, but idiot nonetheless. Like the lady said: it's not so much what you've got as how you use it.

A keen observer who thinks about the implications of what they observe may in fact be smarter than a PhD, despite not "knowing" as much in the academic sense. An education, a proper one, doesn't teach you facts and figures and dates, after all: it uses facts and figures and dates to teach you how to think. And a college education isn't the only route to that end. So be confident that your life experiences count, so long as you actually were paying attention, thinking about them, and learned from them.



posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 01:59 AM
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Originally posted by schrodingers dog

Originally posted by IntastellaBurst

Some people are just spelling Nazi's ...


That would be spelling "Nazis"



As far as the OP ... imho, nothing worthwhile can be gleamed from comparing one's self to others. Plus, I speak four languages, and say equally stupid things with each one of them.


Uhhhhmmmm....actually that would be "gleaned"


Sorry, I couldn't resist.

To the O.P. I found your post, for the most part, to be well written and nicely thought out. There are times, as in the example above, when I feel compelled to point out a spelling error or misuse of word, simply because the written word is what we are relying upon to communicate.

I try to avoid being too much of a stickler over mistakes of spelling or grammar only because I find myself constantly editing my own posts because of spelling and grammar mistakes and have gone back to re-read a few posts from the past and will find mistakes in them as well. So, who am I to castigate others for it...except for S.Dog, but that's just because it's fun to tease him.

I also have a tendency to rely upon long winded paragraphs. However, I have noticed that those posters who use short concise paragraphs have created, at least for me, the ones that are the easiest to read.

It is way cool that this is an international community and spelling mistakes and mistakes of grammar are to be expected, even so, if I were to be posting this in some other language than English, I would like to post the best written and grammatically correct post possible. I speak Spanish and have become fairly proficient in it, but still to this day will get certain tenses wrong or use a word in a feminine usage when it should be masculine or vice versa. It is frustrating to me that when I do this too many people are too tolerant of it and don't correct me more, as I don't want to slip into improper usage as an acceptable way to speak the language.

Also, I have found myself recently getting lazier about editing my own poorly structured posts, or spelling errors or grammatical errors. I suspect I am being lazy about this because it is this site and there are so many that insist it doesn't matter. Both are true and correct. Because not everyone uses English as a first language there will be spelling and grammatical mistakes, but it is important to make the best effort possible to write using proper usage.

Communication is key and mistakes of spelling or grammar can often times act as a misunderstood word which sticks with a person while they are reading the rest of the post. It sticks with the reader, often times unconsciously, but it is an irritation to the mind and as such, a hurdle to better understanding what is being stated in the post they are reading.

You are right to ask for more civility and we should all make that effort even if at times it can prove to be difficult. Civility is yet another form of proper discourse, especially if there is disagreement. Disagreement is a part of communicating and can often times turn to useless arguments if civility is not held up as being the proper method of communicating.

There is also the matter of confronting others. There is a fine line between confronting another poster with a disagreement and being confrontational. Confrontation is not confront. Confront is essential if we are ever to come together as a community and work together to build a better tomorrow. The last thing we want to do is avoid confronting others because it might offend them. Confronting others can often times offend the person you are confronting, but this is why civility is so important and even then, it can often times devolve into confrontation.

As I stated earlier, I thought what you wrote in your original post was nicely written, and eloquently so. It would have been nice to see more effort put into paragraph structures, simply because paragraphs serve a purpose. Grammar is not some useless arbitrary set of rules for the sake of imposing rules on people. It was developed to facilitate communication through the written word.

If you communicate better verbally than you do with the written language, just imagine how good you can get with the written word if you agree to follow some basic rules of grammar and spelling. You are clearly an intelligent person, and I find that most members in this site are, but what fun is being intelligent if we don't constantly do what we can to hone our craft?

What a great opportunity this site is in honing the craft of writing, as well as having fun and discussing cool things like conspiracy theories or biology and medicine, or geology and climate and so on. One of the many assertions I continually read in this site is how the NWO has systematically worked towards making a dumber, less educated populace. This might explain why these so called "spell Nazis" or "grammar police" feel compelled to correct a poster.

Writing can be a very effective tool in affecting change. Indeed; "the pen is mightier than the sword!"



[edit on 9-1-2010 by Jean Paul Zodeaux]



posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 02:03 AM
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Originally posted by adifferentbreed
I've noticed on here a definate attitude of superiority here on ATS from alot of people, and was just wondering where it comes from and if it's really necessary.


here is where my attitude of superiority comes from:
everyone elses' attitudes are inferior to mine.

any "civilized" country i go to has so many laws and rules that i can't live long enough to learn them all, and their lawmakers just go on bragging about how hard it is for them to make more laws.

if we lock all lawmakers up until they wrote down all the laws, they may not live long enough to write down all the laws that already exist.

so, logically, if there are so many laws that not even all the lawmakers know them all together, then there is no laws.

so, governemtn, even the great american thing, is only "free" because they have so many laws that conformity is not an option.


so i am superior to all americans, maybe, since there are no rules, if there are so many rules that no one can possibly learn them all.

i am superior to church goers because:
jesus's #1 rule is "DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE DONE UNTO YOURSELF"
but, jesus, not everyone likes to get treated like i like to get treated. after 2,000+ years and hundreds of millions of followers you think one of them would have figured that out by now.
perhaps i'm superior to them as well?

i am superior to the sinagogue goers because:
first thing moses did with the first commandments is he broke them all, literally.
as for the second ten commandments..
"#1 = no god but me, no others"
well, definition of an atheist is one who believes in no higher being.
moses's commandment giver is a self proclaimed atheist.

in fact, all monotheistic systems believe in one god, no god higher, but that god would still be an atheist if that god believes in no thing higher, trying to be like god is trying to be like one who doesn't believe in god.


so, i'm superior, in a sense, to the american philosophy of government.
so, i'm superior, in a sense, to christians who believe in his commandment
so, i'm superior, in a sense, to the monotheistic faiths

yet, everywhere i go they tell me i don't belong.
friends and family do not tell me that there are so many rules i can't ever know them all, and i will belong after i know them all, but never live long enough to learn them all....

if i can discount the validity of the america
if i can discount the validity of the jesus thing
if i can discount the logic behind monotheistic belief systems is being atheistic

then, ain't i superior to americans?
then, ain't i superior to christians?
then, ain't i superior to monotheistic belief systems?

someone might think i think i'm superior to the "god" thingy, but they don't know the "god" thingy like i know the "god" thingy.
how could they? they are inferior to me, aren't they?



posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 02:11 AM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux

Uhhhhmmmm....actually that would be "gleaned"


Well you see, the thing is ...

I meant gleamed as in: "To be manifested or indicated briefly or faintly.

Yes .. that's the ticket!



posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 02:24 AM
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Originally posted by schrodingers dog

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux

Uhhhhmmmm....actually that would be "gleaned"


Well you see, the thing is ...

I meant gleamed as in: "To be manifested or indicated briefly or faintly.

Yes .. that's the ticket!



Ohhhhhh! Well then, my mistake. Carry on.



posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 04:38 AM
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Originally posted by mopusvindictus
I despise the Grammer Police...


Grammar




Personally I think the "Rule Bearers" are the less intelligent of the two always striving for order so they can make sense of things, same people that want a Black and White answer for everything...


Correction:

Personally, I think the "Rule Bearers" are the less intelligent of the two. Always striving for order, so they can make sense of things. Some people -that want a black and white- answer for everything.

I honestly couldn't resist. It's the English heritage in me.



posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 07:13 AM
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Thank you all, for your responses. Some of them definitely gave me some things to think about.



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