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More questions of the OS - Operational Suitability

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posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 12:51 AM
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Originally posted by mikelee
AOPA online
The last line= 60 Nautical Mile Restriction of the Washington DC/VOR/DME area.


All that states is VFR aircraft below 18,000' must have a max speed of 230k and contact ATC if they exceed that speed




posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 05:20 AM
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Originally posted by weedwhacker
...which was brought from outside by Roger, hows how those who are misinformed can be completely misinformed by others.


So you are saying the FAA is wrongor misinforming people ?

www.everyjoe.com...
FAA Publishes Fact Sheet Regarding Restricted Airspace : EveryJoe ...
The Flight-Restricted Zone (FRZ) extends approximately 15 nautical miles (about 17 statute miles) around the Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport. ... Prohibited Area 56 (P-56) P-56A & B are areas surrounding the White House



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 08:59 AM
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Originally posted by mikelee
My posts are no more outlandish than the OS itself and what I find really disturbing is that the American people have become so sheepish that they'll accept anything presented to them by their government without questions, without scruitny simply because they cannot accept that there may very well be another more sinister explanation for what really caused 911.


What is more interesting than disturbing are the many conspiracy sheep that will accept anything presented to them by their fellow conspiracy buffs, without questions and without scrutiny, simply because they cannot accept that there may very well not be a more sinister explanation for what really caused 911.
Your posts are outlandish when you refuse to address issues that have been explained to you on why your theory has logic faults. You can't explain the lack of debris from shootdown, lack of missile or cannon materiel, and lack of shootdown witnesses.



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 04:23 PM
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reply to post by REMISNE
 


And you post a link to a site that is filled with numerous inaccuracies. I wonder why.....



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 05:54 PM
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reply to post by Swampfox46_1999
 


The information he is referencing is from an FAA document.



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 05:57 PM
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reply to post by dereks
 


Your right Dereks but that airspace is and was restricted even in 2001 all though not as much as it is today.



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 08:01 PM
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reply to post by mikelee
 


You really should check to see what post I am referring to, before you make a post showing that you arent paying attention.




Nor were other defense measures, including surface-to-air missiles at the White House or Pentagon deployed


Inaccurate. While the Secret Service was thought to have had Stingers at the White House, they would have done no good against Flight 77. The Pentagon, had no such defenses.




The scrambling range is known as the Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ) this extends out to 50 miles


Well, if he is speaking of this ADIZ, then that would be inaccurate as well.



The ADIZ was put into effect in February 2003.





The Pentagon is one of the most heavily guarded and watched sites in the U.S., along with Area 51, P-56, and NORAD.


Again, inaccurate.




April Gallop


Ah yes, the E-4 working in an administrative slot at the Pentagon would get a top secret tour of the buildings defenses.........yeah.........



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 09:30 PM
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reply to post by Swampfox46_1999
 


I'm paying attention more than you actually realize.



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 11:59 PM
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Another FACT as to why I brought up the missile theory and like I stated, they assumed the targets of both flt's 77 AND 93 were the White House. This would therefore be a very plausible reason to consider that flt 93 was shot down.

3 other planes reached their targets and then you have 1. Do you really think that those in power were willing to wait & see if the next target was going to be the White House? I do not think so.



The Secret Service, which has been using an air surveillance system called Tigerwall for some time (see (September 2000 and after), tracks both American 77 and United 93 as they approach Washington and assumes the White House is a target. Secret Service agent Barbara Riggs will later say, “The Secret Service prepared to defend the facility,” although the precise nature of the preparations is unclear. [New York Times, 9/12/2001; MSNBC, 9/22/2001; Daily Telegraph, 12/16/2001; Washington Post, 1/27/2002; Associated Press, 8/21/2002; 9/11 Commission, 6/17/2004; PCCW Newsletter, 3/2006]


And the drills are practiced just for that very scenario...


According to USA Today, “In the two years before the Sept. 11 attacks, the North American Aerospace Defense Command conduct[s] exercises simulating what the White House [later] says was unimaginable at the time: hijacked airliners used as weapons to crash into targets and cause mass casualties.” One of the imagined targets is the World Trade Center. According to NORAD, these scenarios are regional drills, rather than regularly scheduled continent-wide exercises. They utilize “[n]umerous types of civilian and military aircraft” as mock hijacked aircraft, and test “track detection and identification; scramble and interception; hijack procedures; internal and external agency coordination; and operational security and communications security procedures.” The main difference between these drills and the 9/11 attacks is that the planes in the drills are coming from another country, rather than from within the US. Before 9/11, NORAD reportedly conducts four major exercises at headquarters level per year. Most of them are said to include a hijack scenario (see Before September 11, 2001). [USA Today,



Gosh, The government practices for a missile attack and I get attacked for suggesting it only as a theory. Musta hit close to home? (Or the truth)


The exercise takes place at Tyndall Air Force Base in Florida. Drones simulating cruise missiles are launched from Tyndall, head out to sea, circle a ship as if they are being launched from there, and then head back to land. Air Force F-16s, Navy gunners, and Army missile defense units attempt to find and track the drones. The Coast Guard attempts to catch the ship serving as the dummy launch site. [Tampa Tribune, 6/3/2001] The next Amalgam Virgo exercise, scheduled to take place in 2002, will involve two simultaneous commercial aircraft hijackings. Planning for that exercise will begin before in July 2001 (see July 2001). [American Forces Press Service, 6/4/2002; USA Today, 4/18/2004]


Does it strike anyone as odd that all of these drills & excersises are held in either close proximity or in, the impacted places on 911?


June 2001 - A major training exercise based upon a simulated terrorist attack is held in Westmoreland County, Pennsylvania, which neighbors Somerset County where Flight 93 crashes on 9/11. The exercise, called Mall Strike 2001, is conducted in Greengate Mall, Hempfield, and involves over 600 emergency first responders and emergency managers responding to the simulated release of a toxic chemical agent and the simulated release of radiation and radiological contamination. [Westmoreland County Annual Financial Report, 2001 ; Connellsville Daily Courier, 9/11/2002]


Almost an exact duplicate of 911 below. But, thank goodness it only an excersise!!


July 2001 - NORAD is already planning for the Amalgam Virgo 02 exercise. This exercise, scheduled for June 2002, will involve the simulation of two simultaneous commercial aircraft hijackings. One plane, a Delta 757, flown by Delta pilots, will fly from Salt Lake City, Utah to Elmendorf Air Force Base in Anchorage, Alaska. It will be “hijacked” by FBI agents posing as terrorists. The other plane will be a Navy C-9 bound from Oak Harbor, Washington to Vancouver, British Columbia, and will be “hijacked” by Royal Canadian Mounted Police. On both planes, military personnel will act as civilian passengers. US and Canadian fighters are to respond, and either force the planes to land or simulate shooting them down. Describing Amalgam Virgo 02 to the 9/11 Commission, NORAD’s Major General Craig McKinley later says, “Threats of killing hostages or crashing were left to the script writers to invoke creativity and broaden the required response for players.” About 1,500 people will participate in the exercise. USA Today will note that this is an exception to NORAD’s claim that, prior to 9/11, it focused only on external threats to the US and did not consider the possibility of threats arising from within the US. 9/11 Commissioner Richard Ben-Veniste will similarly comment that this planned exercise shows that, despite frequent comments to the contrary, the military considered simultaneous hijackings before 9/11. [CNN, 6/4/2002; American Forces Press Service, 6/4/2002; Associated Press, 6/5/2002; 9/11 Commission, 5/23/2003; USA Today, 4/18/2004]


A NAVY aircraft uh? Interesting.....

Click this link for a short article on that


Now, believe what you will about 911. Its your choice and I'm not going to argue with anyone over this. I know what I believe and thats all I'm concerned with.

In closing...

The quotes below are two examples regarding what happened on 911 and they are from someone who should know. I think he's already told us what we suspect:


Here we're talking about plastic knives and using an American Airlines flight filed with our citizens, and the missile to damage this building and similar (inaudible) that damaged the World Trade Center.
Source: Don Rumsfeld, SECDEF


..And shot down the plane in Pennsylvania...

Source: Don Rumsfeld, SECDEF



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 11:41 AM
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reply to post by mikelee
 


mike, you are veering farther and farther into Neverland....


I think this topic is infecting your mind...because you wrote this:


Does it strike anyone as odd that all of these drills & excersises are held in either close proximity or in, the impacted places on 911?


...about some scenarios that specifically mentioned F-16s intercepting drones in Florida, and the planned (in July, 2002) mock-hijacking drill, spending the time and money to actually fly a real passenger airliner (Delta) --- except, of course, the exercise was going to be a flight from Salt Lake City to Alaska, and another on the West Coast too!!!!

The ONLY thing even close to any of the 9/11 impact sites was the planned terrorist drill at a Shopping Mall, located somewhat near Shanksville, in what is obviously a pure coincidence.



...The exercise, called Mall Strike 2001, is conducted in Greengate Mall, Hempfield, and involves over 600 emergency first responders and emergency managers responding to the simulated release of a toxic chemical agent and the simulated release of radiation and radiological contamination...


(Not involving hijickings, but maybe a hostage situation, on the ground!!!)

Really, this is beyond a stretch of imagination ---



Which leads me to this, also a major stretch, with some innuendo and false assumptions thrown in to the mix:



Almost an exact duplicate of 911 below. But, thank goodness it only an excersise!!


What????!!!



July 2001 - NORAD is already planning for the Amalgam Virgo 02 exercise. This exercise, scheduled for June 2002, will involve the simulation of two simultaneous commercial aircraft hijackings. One plane, a Delta 757, flown by Delta pilots, will fly from Salt Lake City, Utah to Elmendorf Air Force Base in Anchorage, Alaska. It will be “hijacked” by FBI agents posing as terrorists. The other plane will be a **Navy C-9 bound from Oak Harbor, Washington to Vancouver, British Columbia, and will be “hijacked” by Royal Canadian Mounted Police....


But, THEN you really jumped the shark, by "asking" (this is the innuendo I mentioned earlier):


A NAVY aircraft uh? Interesting.....


mike, did you bother to research just WHAT a "Navy C-9" is???

Hint: It's just a military version designation for what is also known as a DC-9 in the civilian world. (Looks like they could only get Delta Airlines to offer an airplane for their simulations, and I'd bet a box of doughnuts the pilots at Delta that were to fly the mission were in the Air Force Reserves, they lobbied for it, and saw it as a way to get their jollies, and fulfull a 'weekend warrior' commitment at the same time....).



I am sorry if this is too blunt --- but, it's becoming obvious that the more you think you're "researching" this, the more you are being led down the rabbit hole of complete unconnected nonsense and wild specualtion that infects this subject so much.

The CT crowd COUNT on this!!! They still have trinkets to sell.....



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 11:49 AM
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Originally posted by mikelee
For 93 (or 98 if you read the CIA doc) it makes sense that there was a shoot down of that flight. Why?

* Developing a passenger revolt story is more favorable than just saying "we shot down a commerical airliner over PA."

* This story would allow for the shoot down and subsequent crash. It also places blame on the terrorists thereby allowing command to escape any explanations as to why they shot it down AND public outrage of shooting down an airliner just to kill terrorists.

* As I stated before (in which some have twisted into other things) any missile can be shot at a target with no ordinance loaded into it. Its done for range practice everyday.

Look at the flight path of that airliner after it turned around. its heading straight for DC. I think explains more than some are willing to admit.

AND...if 3 other planes were able to reach their targets then why are we supposed to be led to think this one wouldn't have either?


So in other words, there actually were AQ backed hijackers, on a terrorist mission to attack the US? So then why are so many "9/11 Truthers" using Flight93 as part of the conspiracy when it pretty much shoots them in the foot when looked at logically? The whole 9/11 Truth Movement is hinged on "inside job" nonsense that caused 9/11. All planned by Bush, Cheney, CIA, FBI, NWO, Micky-Mouse Club, etc etc etc........ with the help of super special magic secret technology, etc etc. If anything, Flight93 is the odd man out. If it was shot down, then it really was hijacked, and if it was really hijacked, it was by AQ terrorists and being used as a weapon to attack the US. And if that is the case, then the Pentagon, and the WTCs were all actually attacked by AQ terrorists, and all those stupid foolish conspiracy versions of what happened (demo charges, thermites, thermates, holograph planes, no planes, missiles, death rays, etc etc etc) are canceled out. Flight 93 being shot down basically shoots down the 9/11 Truthers!



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 12:29 PM
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Holy smokes.....




Article: Training, Time, Luck Cut the Toll;Scene Eerily Similar to 1987 Sioux City Disaster Exercise


In 1987, the local government entities in Sioux City, Iowa ran a disaster exercise involving an airliner crash at Gateway Airport.

July 19 1989, United Flight 232, a DC-10, flying from Denver to Chicago, suffers a near catastrophic hydraulic failure. Unable to control the airplane using the tail surfaces, the aircrew manages to use the throttles to direct the aircraft into a crash landing at Gateway Airport. A "scene eerily similar" to the 1987 exercise.......

Coincidence? I think not. I think the government planned to take down Flight 232 in Sioux City.



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 01:14 PM
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reply to post by Swampfox46_1999
 


Prove it. Where's your evidence?



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 01:24 PM
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reply to post by mikelee
 





Does it strike anyone as odd that all of these drills & excersises are held in either close proximity or in, the impacted places on 911?


Thats what organizations like the military, police, fire do when not
involved in real emergencies we practice, practice, practice for
the next "BIG" one.

Recently my Fire department was involved in drill involving radioactive
materials for a "dirty bomb" . So if there is an incident with a dirty
bomb thats mean its a conspiracy?

We also had a drill for high raise fire in building here - guess what it
houses some offices for the FB!? So if it catches fire thats aconspiracy?

Dont seem to realize reason stage drills at famous locations is thats
where the terrorists will strike - not by bombing a 7-11 in SouthPdunk

Seem to have no concept of rality....



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 01:26 PM
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Originally posted by GenRadek

Originally posted by mikelee
For 93 (or 98 if you read the CIA doc) it makes sense that there was a shoot down of that flight. Why?

* Developing a passenger revolt story is more favorable than just saying "we shot down a commerical airliner over PA."

* This story would allow for the shoot down and subsequent crash. It also places blame on the terrorists thereby allowing command to escape any explanations as to why they shot it down AND public outrage of shooting down an airliner just to kill terrorists.

* As I stated before (in which some have twisted into other things) any missile can be shot at a target with no ordinance loaded into it. Its done for range practice everyday.

Look at the flight path of that airliner after it turned around. its heading straight for DC. I think explains more than some are willing to admit.

AND...if 3 other planes were able to reach their targets then why are we supposed to be led to think this one wouldn't have either?


So in other words, there actually were AQ backed hijackers, on a terrorist mission to attack the US? So then why are so many "9/11 Truthers" using Flight93 as part of the conspiracy when it pretty much shoots them in the foot when looked at logically? The whole 9/11 Truth Movement is hinged on "inside job" nonsense that caused 9/11. All planned by Bush, Cheney, CIA, FBI, NWO, Micky-Mouse Club, etc etc etc........ with the help of super special magic secret technology, etc etc. If anything, Flight93 is the odd man out. If it was shot down, then it really was hijacked, and if it was really hijacked, it was by AQ terrorists and being used as a weapon to attack the US. And if that is the case, then the Pentagon, and the WTCs were all actually attacked by AQ terrorists, and all those stupid foolish conspiracy versions of what happened (demo charges, thermites, thermates, holograph planes, no planes, missiles, death rays, etc etc etc) are canceled out. Flight 93 being shot down basically shoots down the 9/11 Truthers!


As stated by Don Rumsfeld..."and shot down the plane over Pennsylvania."

Just going by what the man said. If you don't believe that then thats your opinion. And I respect it.



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 01:27 PM
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reply to post by thedman
 


Your Fire Department is out of context here. And isn't the subject of 911. Thanks for your reply though.



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 01:31 PM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 





A NAVY aircraft uh? Interesting.....


Thats all the post stated. It didn't state the two were the same. I thought it was odd that the two reference a NAVY plane. But of course, your trying to make something out of what it isn't.

As for the rest of your reply, thanks.



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 01:34 PM
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reply to post by mikelee
 


www.imdb.com...

TV Movie Account of United 232 - shows training of National Guard Fire/Rescue personnel at Sioux City airport

Also NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC "SECONDS FROM DISASTER"

seaon 2 (2005) - Episode7

Watch them - might learn something .......



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 01:36 PM
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reply to post by thedman
 


Well thanks! I'm glad your a big supporter of education. You may want to look at many of the educational venues regarding the OS and learn a few things yourself as well.

Thanks again and have a nice day.



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
And you post a link to a site that is filled with numerous inaccuracies.


At least i can post links that have facts and evidence. Something you and others have a serious problem with.



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