It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Birthers are Wrong

page: 5
12
<< 2  3  4   >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 08:38 AM
link   
reply to post by dereks
 



Where do you get that from? Source? - Vattel's Law of Nations, letters between Jay and Washington, what I was taught in school, and more. This was the founding fathers understanding of natural born citizen when they used this phrase in the Constitution (Article 2, Section 1, Paragraph 5).

where is that stated in the constitution? - as we both know, the founding fathers did not define natural born citizen in the Constitution, they simply used the phrase, possibly thinking the definition was so well understood that it did not need definition. (They were obviously wrong).

birthers certainly do - We will have to disagree, as I see Birthers trying very hard to adhere to the law, and being fought at every turn.

Obama is a natural born citizen of the USA - As you pointed out, natural born citizen is not defined in the constitution, so you cannot know that. If you reject the definition of the founding fathers, there is no authoritative definition or source.

wrong, Obama is the valid POTUS - That is debatable, obviously. And it all depends on the founding fathers' definition of natural born citizen.

once again we see the ignorance of the birther, that just does not happen - Having tried to get an original birth certificate unsealed after an adoption, I know it does happen. It's a problem faced by many adoptees, and to the best of my knowledge, without exception. Perhaps you know something I do not. If so, I'd like to know more....

So if someone was born in a foreign country, but adopted by USA citizens then they are a natural born citizen with a US birth certificate.... see how the birthers get all confused with their stories! - It seems you are confused; Obviously not, because they would be born on foreign soil (blood and dirt). The place of birth would not change due to adoption, just the legal parents.

He was honest about it, and was voted in as the POTUS - No, Obama was not honest about it. Nor was the media honest about it. It seems we will have to disagree on this point.

Exactly what fraud, deception and bully tactics are you on about? - All the same ones most "birthers" are upset about, plus some shared by non-birthers. I'm sure you are very familiar with them. You seem to be quite happy with the status quo though, so we will again have to disagree.

birthers do not respect the constitution - Your opinion at best. However, as long as birthers are demanding adherence to the Constitution as their standard, I will have to disagree.

exactly what other issues are you on about? - Again, I'm sure you are well aware of the constitutional concerns regarding the health care bill, cap-and-tax, Interpol immunity, etc. Even if you are not concerned, others are.

well, you certainly have nothing stopping Obama being the President! - At least not yet. But I sure hope you aren't saying that might makes right. That it doesn't matter simply because Obama can get away with it.

If we don't live under a nation of laws, then we have nothing.




posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 09:00 AM
link   
reply to post by Lillydale
 

That is simply the list of things people have asked for...obviously SATs are not really a high priority...

Point is we know next to nothing about Zero's past.. and he is studiously hiding it from us... WHY?



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 09:10 AM
link   
reply to post by expat2368
 



1 Certified copy of original birth certificate


He has provided a perfectly legal copy of his birth certificate, it was good enough for congress to confirm him and the chief justice of the supreme court to swear him in.


2 Columbia University transcripts


This is not required by the U.S. Constitution to be eligible for the office of President of the United States.


3 Columbia thesis paper


This is not required by the U.S. Constitution to be eligible for the office of President of the United States.


4 Campaign donor analysis requested by 7 major watchdog groups


This is not required by the U.S. Constitution to be eligible for the office of President of the United States.


5 Harvard University transcripts


This is not required by the U.S. Constitution to be eligible for the office of President of the United States.


6 Illinois State Senate records


This is not required by the U.S. Constitution to be eligible for the office of President of the United States.


7 Illinois State Senate schedule


This is not required by the U.S. Constitution to be eligible for the office of President of the United States.


8 Law practice client list and billing records/summary


This is not required by the U.S. Constitution to be eligible for the office of President of the United States.


9 Locations and names of all half-siblings and step-mother


This is not required by the U.S. Constitution to be eligible for the office of President of the United States.


10 Medical records (only the one page summary released so far)


This is not required by the U.S. Constitution to be eligible for the office of President of the United States.


11 Occidental College Transcripts


This is not required by the U.S. Constitution to be eligible for the office of President of the United States.


12 Parent’s marriage Certificate


This is not required by the U.S. Constitution to be eligible for the office of President of the United States.


13 Record of baptism


This is not required by the U.S. Constitution to be eligible for the office of President of the United States.


14 Selective Service registration records


This is not required by the U.S. Constitution to be eligible for the office of President of the United States.


15 Schedules for trips outside of the United States before 2007


This is not required by the U.S. Constitution to be eligible for the office of President of the United States.


16 Passport records for all passports


This is not required by the U.S. Constitution to be eligible for the office of President of the United States.


17 Scholarly articles


This is not required by the U.S. Constitution to be eligible for the office of President of the United States.


18 SAT and LSAT test scores


This is not required by the U.S. Constitution to be eligible for the office of President of the United States.


19 Access to his grandmother in Kenya


This is not required by the U.S. Constitution to be eligible for the office of President of the United States.


20 List of all campaign workers that are lobbyists


This is not required by the U.S. Constitution to be eligible for the office of President of the United States.


21 Punahou grade school records


This is not required by the U.S. Constitution to be eligible for the office of President of the United States.


22 Noelani Kindergarten records are oddly missing from the the State of Hawaii Department of Education.


This is not required by the U.S. Constitution to be eligible for the office of President of the United States.


23 Page 11 of Stanley Ann Dunham's divorce decree.


This is not required by the U.S. Constitution to be eligible for the office of President of the United States.

Do you detect a pattern here?



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 09:29 AM
link   

Originally posted by expat2368
reply to post by Lillydale
 

That is simply the list of things people have asked for...obviously SATs are not really a high priority...

Point is we know next to nothing about Zero's past.. and he is studiously hiding it from us... WHY?


No, the point is that you produced a list full of things that you have no business having access to. The man does not owe you proof of it. The list is of things busy bodies claim they have not seen. Seen my SAT scores? I will tell you what I got if you will tell me something like that is relevant or even anyone's business. Your list is half crap that is untrue and half crap that is not any of your business. THAT is the point.



posted on Mar, 13 2010 @ 03:44 PM
link   
reply to post by DINSTAAR
 


I couldn't help but read in your rant that you stated "who cares". Well, you have a point, but the way you go on with your rant in such a uncaring manner made me wonder if you know anything at all about this so called "Birther" issue.

While there are those that take the issue too far and can state so whenever they post, I on the other hand know what I am talking about and will attempt to show you why it matters.

I am convinced that while you possess an intelligent rant, it is in no way the least bit "investigative" in nature. As such, it will never lead anyone to find out the truth about anything. This tells me you know how to rant but you don't know how to contribute to any type of investigation. I say investigative because if someone tells you a crime has been committed, then like an investigator you set about getting leads, clues and following up on witnesses and such. Once a comprehensive collection of evidence is collected and reviewed is the only time one can then make an informed judgment about what is going on.

On the other hand, you strike me as the type that could be sitting in front of 7-11 waiting to go in when you see a man get out of a car pull a mask down over his face and pulls out a gun and goes inside the 7-11. Now at this point someone like me could "INFER" that the man was going in to rob the store. I don't have proof other than what I saw going in the store. If I was an undercover policeman and I saw this I would be in my rights to approach as if I have just witnessed an armed potential robber and thus a criminal.

Well, you on the other hand don't want to read anything, infer anything, or believe anything other than what you want to believe. That is your right, but you don't have a right to declare that it just don't matter or who cares anyway? This callous disregard for any knowledge of the Birther case proves just how uniformed and insensitive you really are.

Make up your own mind, but give the murdered dead the respect they deserve for being involved in something that got them murdered for what they knew or were about to do with what they knew about this so called Birther issue. We already know, it does not matter to you, but it does to the family and friends of L.Q.Harris. I opt to from my perspective to at least infer that he died because something about what was in his passport information under Barry Sotero and Barrack Hussein Obama and the many other passports which Obama had in the many years of working for the CIA.

Anyway, take a look but do some research or else your remarks will continue to appear as shallow as you are.

www.oilforimmigration.org...
www.freerepublic.com...
www.the-two-malcontents.com...
www.sonorannews.com...

and here's my most favorite link which is a very good clue to the matter at hand:

web.israelinsider.com...

Without condoning or condemning I can understand your frustration with such a dramatic issue, but it does matter to someone is the only point I really wanted to make.



posted on Mar, 13 2010 @ 03:58 PM
link   

Originally posted by MaxBlack
I on the other hand know what I am talking about and will attempt to show you why it matters.


Actually you do not know what you are talking about, your links are full of the normal birther lies, and you hate the fact that a black man is the properly elected POTUS. You may deny that, but the truth shows through!


This callous disregard for any knowledge of the Birther case


Except the so called birther case is full of lies, made up stories and garbage


many other passports which Obama had in the many years of working for the CIA.


Just another birther lie not based on any facts at all.

snip links full of lies and garbage


but it does matter to someone


Yes, someone and a group of people that hate the fact that a black man is the proper POTUS



posted on Mar, 13 2010 @ 04:03 PM
link   

Originally posted by expat2368
he has spent now as I understand about 2 million dollars to keep us from finding out.


Care to back that stupid claim up with some facts? Why do birthers keep coming out with that lie, then refuse to back it up with some facts. They also ignore the fact that Obama's main lawyer working on the stupid birther cases is working pro bono....

Of course you will not post any proof of your stupid claim....



posted on Mar, 13 2010 @ 04:05 PM
link   

Originally posted by On the Edge
The sheer amount of time and money that has gone into suppressing his records is evidence something is not the way it should be.


How about showing us all the details of the time and money gone into suppressing his records....

You cannot, as it is just another birther lie!



posted on Mar, 15 2010 @ 11:42 AM
link   
The birther movement is another example of Algorian Logic.

Algorian Logic

A reasoning technique that entails reaching a conclusion about a subject in which one has no expertise and subsequently finding or creating factoids to support the supposition without using critical thinking skills or research to discern the obvious implausibility of the facts or the conclusion.



posted on Mar, 15 2010 @ 03:44 PM
link   
reply to post by MaxBlack
 


Where to begin.



I couldn't help but read in your rant that you stated "who cares". Well, you have a point, but the way you go on with your rant in such a uncaring manner made me wonder if you know anything at all about this so called "Birther" issue.


The birther issue is, at best, grasping at some ridiculous hope that Obama is illegally president and the CIA, Secret Service, DoD, and NSA are all in on it, and at worst, a plot devised by the president himself to throw disinformation into dissenting opinion.

Lets assume that the Birthers are correct, why would that make Obama any less legitimate? Washington has already overstepped its self-imposed bounds. We already have a government that is corrupt, clueless, and can't even follow its own rules. Having a president that was elected under false pretenses would just be politics as usual.



Once a comprehensive collection of evidence is collected and reviewed is the only time one can then make an informed judgment about what is going on.


My informed judgment is that the birther issue is a distraction to actual discussion on real economic and social issues. Obama cannot win an intellectual battle, so he dumbs it down so you can look foolish and the dissenters can be kept to the fringe.



On the other hand, you strike me as the type that could be sitting in front of 7-11 waiting to go in when you see a man get out of a car pull a mask down over his face and pulls out a gun and goes inside the 7-11.


You don't know me.




Well, you on the other hand don't want to read anything, infer anything, or believe anything other than what you want to believe.


Give me a logical reason why promoting the birther issue is at all helpful to the cause of freedom, and I will be with you in this one. I have read about it, and I found it to be a detrimental bunny trail to dwell upon.



This callous disregard for any knowledge of the Birther case proves just how uniformed and insensitive you really are.


Lol.

Its not a disregard for knowledge as much as it is a disregard of distraction. There are many objectionable things too discuss, why bog it down with this non-issue.



Make up your own mind, but give the murdered dead the respect they deserve for being involved in something that got them murdered for what they knew or were about to do with what they knew about this so called Birther issue.


Again, if all of this is a true conspiracy, how does it make it any different? I call this type of conspiracy, a conspiracy of redundancy. On the surface the issue seems huge, but after further research into the mechanics of the system, it makes no difference whether it is true or not. What changed when Obama became president? What will change if/when he is discovered as a fraud? Nothing would change, unless its for the worst, or a trivial attempt to calm the herd.

We have to overhaul the entire system in order to see any notable change for the better.



Anyway, take a look but do some research or else your remarks will continue to appear as shallow as you are.


lol



Without condoning or condemning I can understand your frustration with such a dramatic issue, but it does matter to someone is the only point I really wanted to make.


My issue is not whether Obama is natural born or not. Its that birthers insist on dragging on an issue that serves as a distraction so the powers that be don't have to worry about an actual discussion. If Obama is not a natural born citizen, it makes him, his office, or anyone else in control of us any less legitimate.

Why would it matter at all? That's the answer I have yet to see.



new topics

top topics



 
12
<< 2  3  4   >>

log in

join