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Jan, 26, 2010 Obama Going To Trial On His Illegal Alien Status

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posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 03:08 AM
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reply to post by dereks
 


You realize that factcheck.org is an Obama organization, right? Owned and operated by the administration. MSM also has interest in this information and a hand in it's distribution.




posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 03:17 AM
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Originally posted by JJay55
You realize that factcheck.org is an Obama organization, right?


What do you base that on?


Owned and operated by the administration.


I suggest you recheck that claim...



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 03:46 AM
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Originally posted by whatukno
On the actual subject of the OP: Jan, 26, 2010 Obama Going To Trial On His Illegal Alien Status

I wonder, if anyone actually thinks this will force some sort of closure to this inane, moronic, pedantic, theory?

I myself feel that this will just get thrown out as all the other frivolous and ridiculous lawsuits have. Thus, the birthers will struggle on trying to find "the truth
"

But I must say, Birthers should contact their Republican Senators and Republican Representatives and DEMAND they publicly address this issue. Make sure you go out on the campaign trail with your Republican candidates and wave your signs high!





Okay, first of all, stop using the term "birthers" as that is derogatory and inflammatory. You can even consult any list of propaganda techniques and you will see that "labeling" and "name calling" is a technique designed to try and make yourself look superior. You try to insult people with your labels, and that is just not allowed here at ATS.

This whole thing about Obama's legal status does have some merit, strictly based on facts. The place to solve the problem is in a court of law, where real documents can be produced, people can be subpoenaed, and truth can come out in a legal forum... not the Internet, for heaven's sake!

There are several things which gave rise to this whole issue:

1) Before Obama knew he was running for president, there were news articles that said he was born in Kenya.

2) Since that time, his grandmother in Kenya said he was born in Kenya, and no witnesses can be found that witnessed his birth in Hawaii.

3) His unwillingness to provide a real, long-form birth certificate, which would provide details of the hospital and doctor, so that things could be verified. His actions make him appear guilty, just like a man who runs from a crime scene.

Don't use insulting statements that this issue has NO MERIT, when in fact it has just as much merit as any other court case would have. There are facts that don't line up, and there are questions still left unanswered.

If only one of his parents is a US citizen, and he is not born in the US, then BY LAW, that parent must have been a US resident for at least 5 years after the age of 16, which his mother was not.

IF he was not born in Hawaii, then he is not a natural-born citizen. This should be determined by actual legal investigation that is transparent and open. Why is he not making this obvious for everyone to see? That is what makes him look guilty.

The Hawaiian government providing a make-shift document that is not at all like a real birth-certificate only made matters worse. It is known that Obama traveled to Hawaii in an emergency fashion when this whole thing erupted. We don't know what strings were pulled to whip up some kind of document. All his records have been sealed from public scrutiny. His college records have been sealed, ones that would show if he went to college as a foreigner. Any document that would vindicate him has been sealed! All anyone has is the funky looking document on his website that is missing anything that would allow verification.

It is plain and simple... people who care about "defending the constitution" DON'T TRUST HIM! If he provides just ONE piece of legitimate documentation, then fine... he is legal and everything is cool. This is NOT about partisanship, this is about being American. If you were also caring about being AMERICAN, instead of partisan protection of "your guy", you would also want to be sure he is legal in every way. If he doesn't honor the law, then why should anyone else?

Think about it man, and try to look at the cold direct facts, minus any emotion or partisanship... if he proved his legality, it would make him a stronger president and gain him more political backing. As long as he stonewalls, the more he looks like a liar like Bush et al, and that is just not something one should want to look like.


[edit on 11-1-2010 by downisreallyup]



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 04:14 AM
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reply to post by downisreallyup
 



It is plain and simple... people who care about "defending the constitution" DON'T TRUST HIM! If he provides just ONE piece of legitimate documentation, then fine... he is legal and everything is cool. This is NOT about partisanship, this is about being American. If you were also caring about being AMERICAN, instead of partisan protection of "your guy", you would also want to be sure he is legal in every way. If he doesn't honor the law, then why should anyone else?


The people that back this idiotic theory have absolutely zero interest in defending the Constitution.

He has provided one piece of legitimate documentation, that was completely ignored and even though it was confirmed legitimate by the issuing state, the people that back this theory "birthers" continue to rant, rave, and provide useless bits of information, outright bogus lies, fraudulent and erroneous documentation to support their own madness.

When this all first started, I kept an open mind about it. That was until the state of Hawaii confirmed that they indeed have his original birth certificate on file. If he was born anywhere else but Hawaii, Hawaii would not have his birth certificate on file.


Think about it man, and try to look at the cold direct facts, minus any emotion or partisanship... if he proved his legality, it would make him a stronger president and gain him more political backing. As long as he stonewalls, the more he looks like a liar like Bush et al, and that is just not something one should want to look like.


I have looked at the facts, I have checked these facts on my own, what I have found is that all the real evidence points to Obama being born in Hawaii. Now, until actual evidence surfaces that refutes that, well, he was born in Hawaii.

I sort of wish that a court would force the issue, I wish that they would force Hawaii to disclose his long form birth certificate, this would prove my theory that this isn't about the truth, this isn't about protecting the Constitution, this isn't about anything but a witch hunt for a man that people don't like. It would not stop those that believe in this hogwash from crying foul and continuing on this fanatical insane path.

But you are right, the people that push this issue, DON'T TRUST HIM. Why? Well those reasons are numerous and individual to the ones that don't trust him, some don't like a black man in the white house, some don't like a democrat in the white house, some it's a mix of both.

But in the event that by some weird miracle they force this, and it's shown that Obama was in fact born in Hawaii as was assumed by the sane, it won't stop this issue at all. Because those that truly believe in this horse pucky don't really give a damn about the truth.



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 04:23 AM
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reply to post by downisreallyup
 


You Birthers truly are a crazy bunch.

And guess what this thread is another HOAX.



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 04:24 AM
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Originally posted by downisreallyup
This whole thing about Obama's legal status does have some merit, strictly based on facts.


Based on facts it has zero merit


The place to solve the problem is in a court of law,


This is a major problem birthers have, because there is no problem that needs to be solved by a court


where real documents can be produced,


another problem birthers have is a real birth certificate HAS been produced, but they ignore it


and truth can come out in a legal forum...


It has come out in legal form, which is why Obama is the valid POTUS


there were news articles that said he was born in Kenya.


sourced from where? Link?


Since that time, his grandmother in Kenya said he was born in Kenya,


No she did not, that is a birther lie. You can get what she actually said here:
www.salon.com...
"OGOMBE: No, Obama was not born in Mombasa. He was born in America.
MCRAE: Whereabouts was he born? I thought he was born in Kenya.
OGOMBE: No, he was born in America, not in Mombasa.
MCRAE: Do you know where he was born? I thought he was born in Kenya. I was going to go by and see where he was born.
OGOMBE: Hawaii. Hawaii. Sir, she says he was born in Hawaii. In the state of Hawaii, where his father was also learning, there. The state of Hawaii."



and no witnesses can be found that witnessed his birth in Hawaii


No witnesses needed when he has a valid birth certificate


His unwillingness to provide a real, long-form birth certificate,


He provides the only birth certificate the state of Hawaii provides to anyone - that is all he needs


when in fact it has just as much merit as any other court case would have.


The court cases have zero merit, which is why they keep getting thrown out


There are facts that don't line up,


No, the facts line up, birthers tell lies


and there are questions still left unanswered.


like what exactly?


If only one of his parents is a US citizen, and he is not born in the US, then BY LAW, that parent must have been a US resident for at least 5 years after the age of 16, which his mother was not.


as Obama was born in the USA that is irrelevant


IF he was not born in Hawaii, then he is not a natural-born citizen.


He was born in Hawaii


The Hawaiian government providing a make-shift document that is not at all like a real birth-certificate only made matters worse.


Another birther lie, it is a real birth certificate that now everyone is provided with in Hawaii.


It is known that Obama traveled to Hawaii in an emergency fashion when this whole thing erupted.


Source for that claim? or is it just another birther lie?


All anyone has is the funky looking document on his website that is missing anything that would allow verification.


It is called a birth certificate in Hawaii


If he provides just ONE piece of legitimate documentation, then fine... he is legal and everything is cool.


He has done that, but as this is not actually about the birth certificate, it is about a black man being the POTUS


if he proved his legality, it would make him a stronger president and gain him more political backing.


He has proved that, but as this is not actually about his birth certificate....

[edit on 11/1/10 by dereks]



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 04:31 AM
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Originally posted by downisreallyup
There are several things which gave rise to this whole issue:

1) Before Obama knew he was running for president, there were news articles that said he was born in Kenya.


Post them and I'll show you the same media sources either correcting their MISTAKES/ASSUMPTIONS (Iraq HAD WMDs...remember) or I'll show you organizations that has since repeatedly stated the truth: He was born in Hawaii. Basing your claims on media organizations getting # right the first time makes you a bit naive.


Originally posted by downisreallyup
2) Since that time, his grandmother in Kenya said he was born in Kenya, and no witnesses can be found that witnessed his birth in Hawaii.


Well, there's a birth announcement in a Hawaiian paper. And he does have a state verified Hawaiian birth cert. I wonder how many adults could find living people that were present at their birth and could remember it. Could you? Besides you parents?


Originally posted by downisreallyup
3) His unwillingness to provide a real, long-form birth certificate, which would provide details of the hospital and doctor, so that things could be verified. His actions make him appear guilty, just like a man who runs from a crime scene.


His actions make him appear LAW ABIDING; Hawaii doesn't issue long-form certs any more. He COULD break the law to appease nut-jobs, but then you'd all cry abuse of power.

So which do you want? Should he abuse his power to please loonies? Or not abuse his power and alienate the 1% of Americans (if you people can even be called that...) who think that the entire government is lying to you... for some UNKNOWN and PARANOID reason.

He's made the right decision.



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 04:33 AM
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Originally posted by downisreallyup
Okay, first of all, stop using the term "birthers" as that is derogatory and inflammatory.


Okay, first of all, what is derogatory or inflammatory about the term "birthers"?

Have members of your family had to deal with oppression due to this term?

Is it a medical condition which alienates you?

Are you in a minority which is discriminated against due to this term?

Or is it a quick and easy way to label those who believe that the current president of the United States of America was not born on American soil?

As for the rest of your post fair play, however I think that if a long-form document was presented, or his records opened up for scrutiny then you'd find that some people would call them falsified - there is no convincing those who are deluded.

My humble opinion on the entire subject is why would those with the actual power wish to have someone in the seat of the presidency who can be discredited and/or undermine the entire political system?

Was Obama's rise to power a doctored coup by the Illuminati or is he just really good at what he does?

-m0r



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 04:59 AM
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Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by downisreallyup
 



It is plain and simple... people who care about "defending the constitution" DON'T TRUST HIM! If he provides just ONE piece of legitimate documentation, then fine... he is legal and everything is cool. This is NOT about partisanship, this is about being American. If you were also caring about being AMERICAN, instead of partisan protection of "your guy", you would also want to be sure he is legal in every way. If he doesn't honor the law, then why should anyone else?


The people that back this idiotic theory have absolutely zero interest in defending the Constitution.

He has provided one piece of legitimate documentation, that was completely ignored and even though it was confirmed legitimate by the issuing state, the people that back this theory "birthers" continue to rant, rave, and provide useless bits of information, outright bogus lies, fraudulent and erroneous documentation to support their own madness.

When this all first started, I kept an open mind about it. That was until the state of Hawaii confirmed that they indeed have his original birth certificate on file. If he was born anywhere else but Hawaii, Hawaii would not have his birth certificate on file.


Think about it man, and try to look at the cold direct facts, minus any emotion or partisanship... if he proved his legality, it would make him a stronger president and gain him more political backing. As long as he stonewalls, the more he looks like a liar like Bush et al, and that is just not something one should want to look like.


I have looked at the facts, I have checked these facts on my own, what I have found is that all the real evidence points to Obama being born in Hawaii. Now, until actual evidence surfaces that refutes that, well, he was born in Hawaii.

I sort of wish that a court would force the issue, I wish that they would force Hawaii to disclose his long form birth certificate, this would prove my theory that this isn't about the truth, this isn't about protecting the Constitution, this isn't about anything but a witch hunt for a man that people don't like. It would not stop those that believe in this hogwash from crying foul and continuing on this fanatical insane path.

But you are right, the people that push this issue, DON'T TRUST HIM. Why? Well those reasons are numerous and individual to the ones that don't trust him, some don't like a black man in the white house, some don't like a democrat in the white house, some it's a mix of both.

But in the event that by some weird miracle they force this, and it's shown that Obama was in fact born in Hawaii as was assumed by the sane, it won't stop this issue at all. Because those that truly believe in this horse pucky don't really give a damn about the truth.


Listen man, you seem like an intelligent guy, and yet you also seem naive about the US government. The overwhelming evidence is that government's rarely if ever tell the truth. Shall we start the beginning and go through all the decades of lies, scandals, and deception? Do you really need that, or are you one of the smart Americans who doesn't have "Beaver Cleaver" sunglasses on? Do you think Bush got elected honestly? Do you think that Diebold was lying when it was exposed on 60 minutes that voting machines are rigged? Do you believe what the government said about the JFK assassination? How about 9/11? How about the Gulf of Tonkin event? Did you trust Richard Nixon? How about when FDR took everyone's gold? How about the way Carter handled Iran? What about the Bush regime and their ties to the Nazis? About the only semi-honest guy, and I think he came to change to a more honest guy once he got in office, was JFK, a democrat, and a victim of his honesty.

Friend, you're calling people names and thinking they are being stupid for being doubtful of Obama's honesty, and yet it is you who seems to have "rose-colored" glasses on, ignoring the vast amount of precedent and history before you. I was VERY hopeful of Obama, and even got teary-eyes at some of his early speeches. I kept thinking, "Oh, please let this be true! Let be real!" But that was just a pipe-dream. My REALITY checker was screaming at me, reminding me that he is a protege of Brazinski and that right there tells the whole story... another NWO operative in the White House.

You think people don't trust him because he is black or because he is democrat? That is so very false my friend. That is what TPTB want you to think. They love stupid partisan division, because then people can't actually debate facts, or think as ONE to fix the problems. No, the REAL reason people don't trust him is this:

Obama has not kept a single promise yet, or if he has, he has broken far more than he has kept. A large list can be made of all that he promised about "change" and yet nothing has changed. Americans are still losing their rights every day, more soldiers are still being sent to new battle fronts, the terrorist prison in Cuba is still open, fat-cats in failed companies are still getting enormous bonuses at the taxpayer's expense, Iraq is still being raped by Haliberton, and the economy is still being drained of its last bit of life.


[edit on 11-1-2010 by downisreallyup]



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 05:31 AM
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Originally posted by downisreallyup


snip a rant that has nothing to do with topic

snip a rant attacking Obama.

How about answering the questions, and admitting you are wrong? Or are you going to use the other birther procedure when your silliness is pointed out, which is ignore the questions and run away, but sneek back later and raise the same silly points that have been debunked many times here!



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 05:33 AM
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reply to post by seethelight
 


Okay, I've looked into the latest research that has been done (I last looked into this over a year ago), and I'm satisfied that what has been provided by Obama is valid. If indeed anything suspicious did go on, clearly the tracks have been covered sufficiently so that the law has been satisfied. I really do hope that no "funny business" did go on, for the sake of truth and justice.

Peace!



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 05:55 AM
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Most of this is either exaggerations, paranoia or you being aggravated at your own confused naivete.

None of which is reason to think Obama is Kenyan.

And btw:

Some of the information you posted is from a Republican based chain email. It has been shown to be a hoax.

You believe it cause you can't use google (I can only guess) and you spread it around because you dislike Obama.

www.snopes.com...

Next time, take the time to do 5 minutes of research before bringing you hoaxes onto the board.



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 05:59 AM
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One more thing the State of Hawaii didn't provide "a make shift document".

They provided his birth cert.

In the exact same format you'd get if you'd been born in Hawaii...

www.usatoday.com...

So unless you think the Hawaiian State Gov't is in on it (which I's sure you do) this is all moot.



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 06:01 AM
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posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 06:52 AM
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Originally posted by JJay55
snip a rant that has nothing at all to do with topic

Understand the implication of a muslim president and Islamic terrorism.
In the eyes of Islam that means that the leader represents the territory and thus we are all subjects of Islam. Now I'm not sure you know what Sharia Law is but it's not really fun and it's not anywhere near the Constitution. Sharia law trumps any other world law, therefore, you might be wearing a burka soon and the males of your family be.ed.

Let me see if I have you correct here. You are suggesting the president is secretly Muslim and as a result, we will all fall to Sharia law? Does this mean that he will be allowing this to happen? Is this some super secret Muslim thing that even if he is not a practicing Muslim, they can freely enter the U.S. and put burkas on people? This is even too paranoid for Alex Jones territory.

So, will he order the military to stand down as Muslims land on our shores with new rules for us? Is he going to confiscate citizen weapons before this happens? Can you flesh this out a little so it sounds more like a plausible premise and not just some late night C2C phone call we all laugh at?



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 06:56 AM
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Originally posted by downisreallyup
Okay, first of all, stop using the term "birthers" as that is derogatory and inflammatory. You can even consult any list of propaganda techniques and you will see that "labeling" and "name calling" is a technique designed to try and make yourself look superior. You try to insult people with your labels, and that is just not allowed here at ATS.


Perhaps you should tell the Birthers to stop calling themselves that.






[edit on 1/11/10 by Lillydale]



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 06:58 AM
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reply to post by seethelight
 


Looking for a birth certificate from the state is a thing. But You are not just asking for a an application to get a license driver, or college attendance in this case.

You are talking about someone in charge over a country, someone that may start wars, create debt for is own people, etc...

They are birthers as they are called, many of them will never accept a black man in charge, that is probably true.

They are also doubters that will be more than glad to be represented by someone being over suspicions. These folks only need to get assurance the Potus fullfills all the requierements for the task.

A certificate of live birth exists, The hospital acknowledges the fact it is in their vault.

It was always refused to be shown by M. Obama.

Displaying it would end all that debate. Leaving the so called birthers with that label of racism.

At the end, Who's to blame ?

Has M. Obama not enough foes already, to allow so many more with suspicions over that issue ?



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 07:15 AM
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Originally posted by downisreallyup
Obama has not kept a single promise yet, or if he has, he has broken far more than he has kept. A large list can be made of all that he promised about "change" and yet nothing has changed. Americans are still losing their rights every day, more soldiers are still being sent to new battle fronts, the terrorist prison in Cuba is still open, fat-cats in failed companies are still getting enormous bonuses at the taxpayer's expense, Iraq is still being raped by Haliberton, and the economy is still being drained of its last bit of life.


Politically, I hear YOU. I hear you speaking for you. I am reading you speak for everyone though and you are wrong. If your long list of reasons that people do not trust Obama, you are going to have to find the time machine that let them all know two years ago that this is why they should not trust him. He was running and there was no shortage of anti-black and anti-dem rhetoric going around. Just because not everyone on the planet might not be an ignorant redneck, does not mean there are not plenty of them out there. I know for a fact that not one of the Obama haters I know is psychic and not one of them waited for him to even be elected to decide they hated him. Most hated him as soon as they saw him. Some hated him just because some people hate democrats. Sorry but this is not a perfect place and there are plenty of racists and political ideologues out there. You can keep pretending it is not true, but it is. Most of these people are wearing your shirts, carrying your signs, and marching along side you to buy more tea bags to hang off their hat.

There is even a simple test you can use to see if you have this problem around you. Just ask a simple question that is easy to verify and see just how ignorant an answer you get. Let me demonstrate. Should Obama release the long form version of his BC?

answer: Hawaii does not issue one but that is an easily checked fact and it seems to really confuse ignorant people. You know what I mean. They are out there. They are emailing me and voting with you.



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 07:25 AM
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Originally posted by seethelight
www.politifact.com...


Everybody should be reading that site if there are any doubts over his birth certificate. They have checked everything from his drivers license through to his birth certificate and their conclusion is that he has proven that he is a natural born citizen.

I don't suppose that'll stop the birthers finding something else to grasp onto.



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 07:33 AM
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reply to post by Nimrod
 


Seriously. Why do people like you simply insist he is hiding his birth certificate? It is online for all to see. Why do people such as yourself seem to be ignoring that completely?



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