Jan, 26, 2010 Obama Going To Trial On His Illegal Alien Status

Last time I looked the topic wasn't other members. The topic of this thread is:

Jan, 26, 2010 Obama Going To Trial On His Illegal Alien Status.

Yep, just checked again...that's the title of the thread.

So...

The commentary about other members is now over... We will return to the topic.

Originally posted by seagull
Last time I looked the topic wasn't other members. The topic of this thread is:

Jan, 26, 2010 Obama Going To Trial On His Illegal Alien Status.

Yep, just checked again...that's the title of the thread.

So...

The commentary about other members is now over... We will return to the topic.

So just to be clear...when people post blatant lies, we are not to question them about that? Or is it pointing out the clear dodging of questions to point out the lack of credibility in a poster that was the issue?

So I can not post lies and get no [hoax] tag attatched and I can have a mod remove any post questioning the validity of what I say? Just want to be clear.

Originally posted by Kailassa

Originally posted by zman
I know in my state of New Jersey, that I must have the long form to get a drivers license.
If I had the one that our President shows on the web I would not be able to get a drivers license. Its a short form of a birth record that does not show all the infornation needed by my state.
Also I have to have the long form to get a passport as well.

So the fact that the web version shows he was born in that state, does not qualify him for a drivers license in NJ. With out the long form, showing all the details he would not be able to get into a federal building in my state. Or drive or have a passport.

Are you lying or are you genuinely as ignorant of your own constitution as you indicate? I'm an old granny who has never been out of Australia, and even I know American law better than you seem to.

Each state has the right to set its own standards with official documents such as birth, death and marriage certificates. Every other state has a constitutional duty to accept the official documents of every other state.

New Jersey has to accept the birth certificate Hawaii issues, the one Obama has shown, as legal identification. Every Hawaiian can use this certificate to get a passport, to get married in any state, and to get a license in any state.


Now for the minor issues you brought up:

Unlike Hawaii, new Jersey issues 2 birth documents.

* Certified copies have the raised seal of the office issuing the record and are always issued on State of New Jersey safety paper. Certified copies may be used to establish identity and are legal documents.

* Certifications are issued on plain paper with no seal and clearly indicate they are not valid for establishing identity or for legal purposes. Certifications are generally only useful for genealogy. Certifications of death records do not contain the Social Security Number or the Cause of Death medical terminology.

www.state.nj.us...

The certified copy is the equivalent of Obama's birth certificate, which also has the raised seal of the office issuing the record and is issued on State of Hawaii safety paper. The other certification states clearly it is not a legal document and it has no equivalent in Hawaii, or in most other American states.

Regarding driving licenses, you can get a new Jersey driver's license without showing any birth certificate at all. I would have thought any actual resident of New Jersey would know this.

www.state.nj.us...

4-POINT DOCUMENTS:
US CITIZENS
 Civil birth certificate* or certified copy from one of
the 50 states, District of Columbia or a US territory.
Photocopies or certificates from hospitals or religious
entities are not accepted.
Please read IMPORTANT INFORMATION above.
 US Department of State birth certificate
(Form FS-545,FS 240 or DS-1350)
 US passport, current or expired less than
3 years
 Current US Passport card
 Current NJ digital driver license
 Current NJ digital non-driver ID card
 Current NJ digital boat license
 Valid active duty US military photo ID card
 US adoption papers
 Certificate of naturalization (Form N-550,N-570
or N-578)
 Certificate of citizenship (Form N-560,N-561 or N-645)

The other documents require you are a US citizen via long form birth cetificate.
You can not have any of the other documents unless you have one.

Sorry but every one Current NJ license,NJ digital ID, boat license,US miltary ID, US adoption have you bring in your long form of birth to get those so said documents.



[edit on 1/11/2010 by zman]

Originally posted by zman
Sorry but every one Current NJ license,NJ digital ID, boat license,US miltary ID, US adoption have you bring in your long form of birth to get those so said documents.

Perhaps you should read my last post again, where I explained the facts to you.

Only one type of birth certificate is currently issued in Hawaii, and that BC is legal identification all over America. You can get a license anywhere with that, or get a passport. It contains every bit of information every state, including New Jersey, needs for legal identification purposes.

In fact, it is constitutionally required of all states in America that they accept the legal documents of all other American states.

Perhaps you should do your research, because repeating misinformation after you have been set right makes a person look silly.

Here's the real truth:

Birthers KNOW logically that Obama was born in Hawaii and is legally able to be president.

But in their black little hearts they refuse to believe.

This allows them to post (and publish) the same refuted and explained away lies over and over and over.

Because if all they needed was proof, they have it.

So, don't bother arguing with the wilfully delusional. They know they're full of SH!T. They KNOW.

They'd just prefer to believe and spread lies.

reply to post by Kailassa


Photocopies or certificates from hospitals or religious will not be accepted

Photocopies or certificates from hospitals or religious
entities are not accepted. State law.

[edit on 1/11/2010 by zman]

[edit on 1/11/2010 by zman]

Originally posted by zman
Photocopies or certificates from hospitals or religious will not be accepted

Photocopies or certificates from hospitals or religious
entities are not accepted. State law.

Excuse me while I stop laughing and pick myself up off the floor.

Have you seen anyone suggesting a photocopy would be accepted?
Has anyone ever said that Obama only possesses a photocopy of his birth certificate?

No-one is suggesting he could roll up with his laptop, show them the picture or make a copy of it for them, and get a passport that way.

If you get what you refer to as a long form birth certificate from New Jersey today, it will be a notarised copy, signed and indented with the state seal. If a Hawaiian gets a birth certificate from Hawaii today, it will be a notarised copy, signed and indented with the state seal.

Neither are photocopies. Both are legal identification in all states.
If you would like to see Obama's, complete with signature and seal, several pictures of it are on display at Factcheck.



Btw, if you produce the birth certificate your mother brought home with you when you were brand new, the sort that Birthers are demanding Obama produce, you will find it is no longer legal ID in New Jersey or anywhere else.

Originally posted by Kailassa

Originally posted by zman
Photocopies or certificates from hospitals or religious will not be accepted

Photocopies or certificates from hospitals or religious
entities are not accepted. State law.

Excuse me while I stop laughing and pick myself up off the floor.

Have you seen anyone suggesting a photocopy would be accepted?
Has anyone ever said that Obama only possesses a photocopy of his birth certificate?

No-one is suggesting he could roll up with his laptop, show them the picture or make a copy of it for them, and get a passport that way.

If you get what you refer to as a long form birth certificate from New Jersey today, it will be a notarised copy, signed and indented with the state seal. If a Hawaiian gets a birth certificate from Hawaii today, it will be a notarised copy, signed and indented with the state seal.

Neither are photocopies. Both are legal identification in all states.
If you would like to see Obama's, complete with signature and seal, several pictures of it are on display at Factcheck.



Btw, if you produce the birth certificate your mother brought home with you when you were brand new, the sort that Birthers are demanding Obama produce, you will find it is no longer legal ID in New Jersey or anywhere else.

Again sorry to inform you again. (certificates from hospitals or religious will not be accepted) and since the posted one on the internet is a certificate of birth and not a birth certificate, then it will not be allowed. I know I had both and the only one allowed was the long form.
I hope you did not hurt yourself falling to the ground laughing.
Please understand I want to believe that he is legal. But faced with hinding all of information , like school and college papers, and wanting us to beleive that the certificate of birth is his lone copy, we must get a copy from the county on which he was born for the real certificate that is in question.

Originally posted by zman
Again sorry to inform you again. (certificates from hospitals or religious will not be accepted) and since the posted one on the internet is a certificate of birth and not a birth certificate, then it will not be allowed. I know I had both and the only one allowed was the long form.

Please try to pay attention. This has been mentioned MANY times now. Please keep up. HAWAII DOES NOT ISSUE A LONG FORM BC. You cannot demand something that is not issued.

Originally posted by Lillydale

Originally posted by zman
Again sorry to inform you again. (certificates from hospitals or religious will not be accepted) and since the posted one on the internet is a certificate of birth and not a birth certificate, then it will not be allowed. I know I had both and the only one allowed was the long form.

Please try to pay attention. This has been mentioned MANY times now. Please keep up. HAWAII DOES NOT ISSUE A LONG FORM BC. You cannot demand something that is not issued.

The county of which he was born in , does offer the long form of birth. Not the hospitals certificste of birth. This is the form he has failed to produce. And if you do not produce that form in this state you can not get a drivers license.

Originally posted by zman
The county of which he was born in , does offer the long form of birth.

No it does not, as has been shown to you several times

And if you do not produce that form in this state you can not get a drivers license.

still wrong - where does the documentation say that? but you know that you are wrong, you are just trolling now

Originally posted by dereks

Originally posted by zman
The county of which he was born in , does offer the long form of birth.

No it does not, as has been shown to you several times

And if you do not produce that form in this state you can not get a drivers license.

still wrong - where does the documentation say that? but you know that you are wrong, you are just trolling now

You sir are the troll who lies without stated laws listed below.


4-POINT DOCUMENTS:
US CITIZENS
 Civil birth certificate* or certified copy from one of
the 50 states, District of Columbia or a US territory.
Photocopies or certificates from hospitals or religious
entities are not accepted.
Please read IMPORTANT INFORMATION above.
 US Department of State birth certificate
(Form FS-545,FS 240 or DS-1350)
 US passport, current or expired less than
3 years
 Current US Passport card
 Current NJ digital driver license
 Current NJ digital non-driver ID card
 Current NJ digital boat license
 Valid active duty US military photo ID card
 US adoption papers
 Certificate of naturalization (Form N-550,N-570
or N-578)
 Certificate of citizenship (Form N-560,N-561 or N-645)

This is again what is required to get a drivers license in the state if NJ. From what our president has shown on the web , he can not and will not get a drivers license in this state.
You must have a valid copy of his birth certificate not one from the hospital. But the long form provided by the state and county of residense, otherwise, no license.

[edit on 1/11/2010 by zman]

Originally posted by zman
US CITIZENS

Obama is a US citizen

Civil birth certificate* or certified copy from one of
the 50 states, District of Columbia or a US territory.

And thats exactly what Obama has....

From what our president has shown on the web , he can not and will not get a drivers license in this state.
You must have a valid copy of his birth certificate not one from the hospital.

And that is exactly what he has, a birth certificate issued by the Department of Health, Hawaii. It was not issued by the hospital... so why tell a lie and claim it was?

otherwise, no license.

If Obama lived in your state he could get a licence, as his birth certificate complies with the above!

But this is not about his birth certificate, as it has been shown he has a valid one, it is about a black man being the POTUS!

reply to post by zman


You are not a troll. You are a liar.

Primary Documents for U.S. Citizens

You must submit at least one of the following:

4 Points Each

-Birth certificate issued by one of the 50 states, District of Columbia, or U.S. territory
-U.S. Department of State birth certificate (Form FS- 545, FS 240, or DS-1350)
-U.S. adoption papers
-U.S. passport (current or expired less than 3 years)
-N.J. Digital Driver License (current or expired less than 3 years)
-Valid N.J. Non-Driver Digital Identification Card
-Valid U.S. military photo identification card
-Certificate of Naturalization (Form N-550, N-570 or N-578)

What is the first item on that list?

You and the law in New Jersey

He has shown his birth certificate. Do you know what the different forms in the second one even are and why they are different from each other?



[edit on 1/11/10 by Lillydale]

Originally posted by Lillydale
reply to post by zman

 

You are not a troll. You are a liar.

Primary Documents for U.S. Citizens

You must submit at least one of the following:

4 Points Each

-Birth certificate issued by one of the 50 states, District of Columbia, or U.S. territory
-U.S. Department of State birth certificate (Form FS- 545, FS 240, or DS-1350)
-U.S. adoption papers
-U.S. passport (current or expired less than 3 years)
-N.J. Digital Driver License (current or expired less than 3 years)
-Valid N.J. Non-Driver Digital Identification Card
-Valid U.S. military photo identification card
-Certificate of Naturalization (Form N-550, N-570 or N-578)

What is the first item on that list?

You and the law in New Jersey

He has shown his birth certificate. Do you know what the different forms in the second one even are and why they are different from each other?



[edit on 1/11/10 by Lillydale]

Again I am neither a troll or do I lie. or you are a troll and you have not got the education to understand the difference of the two documents. The hospital record of birth is the one he shows on the web, yet the required birth record aka birth certificate is needed to get a drivers license , see laws in NJ and it states that no certificate from a hospital can be used, only the state verified long form can be used,I know I tried it myself here in my state, can YOU say that. Please stop lying and destorting the truth.



[edit on 1/11/2010 by zman]

Originally posted by zman

Again I am neither a troll or do I lie. or you are a troll and you have not got the education to understand the difference of the two documents. The hospital record of birth is the one he shows on the web, yet the required birth record aka birth certificate is needed to get a drivers license , see laws in NJ and it states that no certificate from a hospital can be used, only the state verified long form can be used,I know I tried it myself here in my state, can YOU say that. Please stop lying and destorting the truth.



[edit on 1/11/2010 by zman]

Can you please tell me exactly what part of "HAWAII DOES NOT ISSUE A LONG FORM" do you have a problem getting? Are you telling me that no one from Hawaii can get a driver's license in New Jersey?

Call me names all you like. At least I sourced my stuff.

reply to post by downisreallyup

Listen man, you seem like an intelligent guy, and yet you also seem naive about the US government.

I am not naive about how the US Government works or operates, oh far from it, but there is no need to accuse me of intelligence.

The overwhelming evidence is that government's rarely if ever tell the truth. Shall we start the beginning and go through all the decades of lies, scandals, and deception? Do you really need that, or are you one of the smart Americans who doesn't have "Beaver Cleaver" sunglasses on?

Golly gee Wally, do you think they were fibin? Does dad know?

Do you think Bush got elected honestly? Do you think that Diebold was lying when it was exposed on 60 minutes that voting machines are rigged? Do you believe what the government said about the JFK assassination? How about 9/11? How about the Gulf of Tonkin event? Did you trust Richard Nixon? How about when FDR took everyone's gold? How about the way Carter handled Iran? What about the Bush regime and their ties to the Nazis? About the only semi-honest guy, and I think he came to change to a more honest guy once he got in office, was JFK, a democrat, and a victim of his honesty.

Ok, now remember you said that, it will become important down the line.

Friend, you're calling people names and thinking they are being stupid for being doubtful of Obama's honesty, and yet it is you who seems to have "rose-colored" glasses on, ignoring the vast amount of precedent and history before you.

First, I call people "birthers" because it's a lot shorter than typing out "people who believe and support this conspiracy theory" Just as calling someone a "truther" is a lot shorter to type than "people who don't believe the official story of 9/11" In fact, to alleviate a lot of carpel tunnel damage by having to retype over and over and over again the same thing, I went ahead and posted on my blog a detailed rebuttal to common "birther" issues. I like to post that when these threads start, I believe it is quite good, it references a lot of good information and I don't have to retype the same things over and over again. I understand that the government lies to us, it's just that on this issue, I don't think that the President is lying about where he was born. I believe him because there has been no proof otherwise that any deception has been made on his part.

People who believe and support this theory, speculate a lot about what went on in Obama's life, they want every last detail. Yet, I have never heard of anyone doing this for any other president. Point of fact, can you now point to every other Presidents birth certificate? Can you prove that every other president was in fact a natural born U.S. Citizen? (Of course we don't have to count those that were born prior to the revolutionary war, because that exemption is written in the Constitution) Or did we just take them at their word that they were in fact born in the United States and thus satisfy the jus soli requirement?

You think people don't trust him because he is black or because he is democrat?

Yes in fact I do think this is exactly why people bring up this issue, more so that he is black and less so that he is a Democrat.

Obama has not kept a single promise yet, or if he has, he has broken far more than he has kept.

And that is a partisan lie. You can in fact keep track of all the promises he has kept and broken or compromised on here.

A large list can be made of all that he promised about "change" and yet nothing has changed.

You can thank partisan politics for that, you do know that Republicans are doing everything they can to stall and kill every single issue and bill that goes through congress right? There is no bi partisanship in congress. If Democrats pick an issue, Republicans do everything they possibly can to defeat that bill. Even going so far as to vote against an anti gang rape bill.

Americans are still losing their rights every day, more soldiers are still being sent to new battle fronts,

You do know that he did promise to put more troops into Afghanistan right? That was one of his campaign promises. So, he did keep that one. I wish he didn't but he did.

the terrorist prison in Cuba is still open, fat-cats in failed companies are still getting enormous bonuses at the taxpayer's expense, Iraq is still being raped by Haliberton, and the economy is still being drained of its last bit of life.

He is working on shutting down Gitmo, it is a lot harder to figure out what to do with those POWs than the president anticipated. Many of those fat cats getting enormous bonuses, are at companies that have already repaid all of their TARP loans, you don't hear about that on ATS because people here don't want to know about TARP being repaid, but it is. Iraq is now being raped by foreign oil companies, not just Haliberton. And the president is for some strange reason thinking he can spend his way out of this recession. So quite a bit has changed, it's just not instantly changing like Americans like.




[edit on 1/11/2010 by whatukno]

I have no idea where Obama was born. Nor do I care.

I just find it deliciously ironic that a nation founded by foreign colonists would, after declaring independance, exclude any further immigrants from standing for office as president.

Good enough to form a colony but not good enough to run it.