Bomb explodes in Northern Ireland

reply to post by BingeBob


Less than 50% is all I can say. I don't live there and haven't claimed to. I'll let blueorder and uslterman answer that.

And "objectively"? Really? So, if you asked the question that ran, say:

"If the idiot Orangemen would stop their needless provocations come marching season and if the PSNI managed a little bit better with their equal policing policies and Paisely would finally shut the # up, would you still demand the union of Northern Ireland with the Republic of Eire?

Or would you prefer to live in the UK with it's greater taxation base and better ability to deliver funding to social and public services?

Or would you still wish to join a truly neutral nation on the edge of the EU?"

You mean an "objective" question like that, that somehow removes the emotions from the equation?

OK my bad...wrong word...

Dont get me wrong buddy, I value your opinion and knowledge. I like a good debate. Its going to be tough for me since I only know what I have read and been told.

Howl, you seem to give more information (albeit in an angry way) than does blue who wishes me death at the hands of criminals.

If the republic moved in by force today into Belfast and then said "Belfast is now part of the republic" What would happen?

Come on...lets lighten it up a little...i dont want to be blown up

reply to post by BingeBob


Found a survey:

In 1973, the population of Northern Ireland was polled on whether Northern Ireland should remain part of the United Kingdom or join with the Republic of Ireland to form a United Ireland. The poll was largely boycotted by Catholics, and so the result of 98.9% in favour of union with the rest of the UK represented the opinion of 57.45% of the electorate.[18][19]

A possible referendum on a united Ireland was included as part of the terms of the Belfast Agreement. Currently about 42% of the Northern Ireland electorate vote for Irish nationalist parties that oppose the union with Great Britain and support a united Ireland as an alternative, although it is not the only issue at election time so it is difficult to take this figure as a direct indication of levels of support for a united Ireland. A survey taken in 2008 showed support for a united Ireland at 18% and support for Northern Ireland remaining in the United Kingdom at 70%. 8% support independence or other arrangements.Source

Folks in Great Britain seem to want the Irish out:

There is significant support in Great Britain for Ireland to reunify as a political entity. An ICM poll conduced by The Guardian in 2001 revealed that only 26% of Britons supported Northern Ireland remaining a part of the UK, while 41% supported a united Ireland.[25] The British Social Attitudes Survey in 2007 found 32.25% supported Northern Ireland remaining part of the UK, and 40.16% supported Irish re-unification.[26] The poll has been run 19 times between 1983 and 2007, with each result being in favour of Irish unity. The highest support came in 1994 with 59.36% of the British respondents supporting Irish Unity, while only 24.09% in support Northern Ireland remaining in the UK.

[edit on 8-1-2010 by thisguyrighthere]

Screw it. Delete. Certain members are not worth my attention.



[edit on 8-1-2010 by infinite]

[edit on 8-1-2010 by infinite]

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


Wow...those are interesting figures. I wonder how differently it would have played out if catholics didnt boycott.

Do you think that the 2008 results are based on really wanting to be part of england or just afraid of slipping away from a superpower? Or just reluctant to change?

reply to post by BingeBob


I cant answer that. Even just an opinion.

But I would also like to know what it is about the situation that makes them want to remain a part of the UK and I would also like to know what it is about the situation that makes so many in GB want the Irish to unify.

reply to post by infinite


I saw it before you deleted it...

I mentioned the native americans earlier. You brits are the same as us so dont get all euro on me. We are the closest "frenemies" the word has ever seen.

We all have our historical demons

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


I would imagine...and i can only speculate that england sees N. Ireland as a liability. Especially if the survey from 2008 was polled of people in a certain area and others either were not asked or refused to answer.

reply to post by BingeBob


The Republic couldn't. It's military is tiny, even New Zealand currently has more offensive capability, and that's AFTER they sold their fighter jets.

The UK doesn't exactly straddle the globe with its might these days, but it's sure still got enough to smite Eire in a single day.

And for how the UK would respond? Think back to 1982 and the Falklands...

But that's beside the point. Ever since 1921 and the creation of the Irish Free State and then the independence of the Republic of Eire, Ireland has been neutral. 100%.

reply to post by HowlrunnerIV


So youre saying that the irish military would be ousted in a day by the british military. I cant argue that. But the action of taking a city such as Belfast would be seen as an act of war wouldnt it?

reply to post by HowlrunnerIV


Sort of like the US in Afghanistan, right? How's that military might working out?

Of course. But Ireland would never do it. Politically they have maintained their neutrality since the beginning of their nation and never wavered from it. It's why the Brits were prepared to begin negotiations for what eventually led to Good Friday with them.

Every time one of these "Real" IRA groups attacks the Irish PM is one of the first to condemn the action.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
reply to post by HowlrunnerIV

 

Sort of like the US in Afghanistan, right? How's that military might working out?

When you know what you're talking about, then start trying to make snide points.

Do you know what Ireland's square kilometrage is? As compared with, say, Afghanistan's?

Do you know what Ireland's terrain is, as compared with, say, Afghanistan's?

Do you know what language they speak in Ireland, as compared with, say, Afghanistan?

Do you know how good the UK's maps of Ireland are, as compared with, say the US' maps of Afghanistan and its population centres, topographic features etc?

Do you know what the distance from Aldershot (home base for British Army) to Dublin is, as compared, say, with the distance from Washington to Kabul?

Ooh, and how about this one: What is the population of Eire, as compared with, say, Afghanistan?

[edit on 8-1-2010 by HowlrunnerIV]

Of course they wouldnt...its suicide. You cant have an army fight toe to toe with britain without external support.

But if the PM ordered troops into Belfast to hold the city (theoretically). Would the people from Belfast overthrow the republic occupation or go along for the ride?

This is interesting albeit I assume it is somewhat insulting since these people are American living in America but Pelosi and the rest of the Democrats from California have taken the official position of supporting a unified Ireland:

The California Democratic Party executive board unanimously endorsed the unification resolution on 19 July, thereby making it official policy of the California Democratic Party.
A copy of the resolution will be forwarded to President Barack Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.Source

I wonder if it has been accepted into the national Democratic party platform?

Obama for a unified Ireland?

reply to post by BingeBob


Of that I have no idea. I'd suggest they'd lock their front doors and try and keep out of the way.

Certainly a hard core of criminal arseholes (those would be former Republicans who are now just gangsters but dream they are something better) would come out to join the Eire troops in fighting off the British Army, as a hard core of loyalists would come out to shoot Irish soldiers and any republicans they could get in their gunsights.

I doubt the British Army would want to have anything to do with them or their "help". Loyalist gunmen were, as far as I know, generally held in lower regard in the rest of the UK than the IRA were. Too many revenge attacks that amounted to little more than drive-bys in Catholic areas after bombs went off.

I would hazard a guess to say that both contingents wouldn't make up more than 5% of the population together, probably a whole lot less, in fact.

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
reply to post by HowlrunnerIV

 

Sort of like the US in Afghanistan, right? How's that military might working out?

When you know what you're talking about, then start trying to make snide points.

Do you know what Ireland's square kilometrage is? As compared with, say, Afghanistan's?

Do you know what Ireland's terrain is, as compared with, say, Afghanistan's?

Do you know what language they speak in Ireland, as compared with, say, Afghanistan?

Do you know how good the UK's maps of Ireland are, as compared with, say the US' maps of Afghanistan and its population centres, topographic features etc?

Do you know what the distance from Aldershot (home base for British Army) to Dublin is, as compared, say, with the distance from Washington to Kabul?

Ooh, and how about this one: What is the population of Eire, as compared with, say, Afghanistan?

[edit on 8-1-2010 by HowlrunnerIV]

Interesting points...Wiki says Afghanistan is 251,000 miles/sq with 28mil population and Ireland is about 32,000 miles/sq with 6mil population

Ireland is hilly and green from my experience with a temperate climate. From what ive seen on tv Afghanistan is hot and sandy.

I would think a guerilla force could really mix in well with the occupying force as Ireland is predominantly caucasian. However, the afghan guerillas are mixing in quite well with their own police and such.

I would also speculate that if i had a choice to fight on land like Ireland or land like Afghanistan i would choose to fight on land like Ireland.

It would really come down to technology and the way each side is willing to fight. If a true uprising in ireland were to occur and britain used its full brute force against them it would be a short lived engagement.

reply to post by HowlrunnerIV


Howl,

What are your thoughts on the survey that Thisguy posted a few posts back and my reply to that?

The dissidents, have less than one percent support within the nationalist community, there basically a mix of ultra patriots and psychopaths.

But the thing is they (the dissidents) do not even realize that once the the Treaty of Lisbon was signed into law a few months back, that within European member states individual nationality, is going to be totally meaningless very soon. Why do you think there has been such high immigration allowed to the UK and Ireland, it is because they (NWO) want to quell any idea of nationalism and by diluting the indigenous population of their national identities, this helps them toward there end-game of a one world governance.

And i would say to anyone debating in this thread do not dig up old hatreds, as it only serves there purpose in dividing us.

[edit on 8-1-2010 by mtok7]

[edit on 8-1-2010 by mtok7]

reply to post by blueorder


You really are bringing this topic down m8, many of your comments are excessively viscous.

Also, I have friends who are Republican but would never advocated violence AND have absolutely no qualms towards the British or Protestant groups - they have simply old fashioned firm beliefs in a united Ireland. How are they filth?

Personally I think majority rule should always be enforced and the majority in NI want to be in the UK so these extremist RIRA scumbags should be found and executed nice and quietly into an unmarked grave..