Today my eyes were opened

For most of my life I've been living with the mindset that the government is the problem, that the government is the bane of all evil. Until today.

Early today, I was having a conversation and realized that the government is not the problem. Humans are. I started to see the government as one figure and not as a group of people. The government is not evil, humans are. The government cannot do anything without support from the public. Deep down humans are inherently evil and racist, the government doesn't commit genocide, the government doesn't kill people in wars, soldiers use wars and their false sense of patriotism to fulfill their base instincts to kill.

Humans are tribal creatures and the majority are instilled with the sense that their culture has the right to expand and dominate other cultures, they purposely elect officials who they believe can do this, even if they don't admit they don't want peace or diversity they want everything to be familiar to them because the familiar isn't as scary.

Peace itself is false, there can be peace under a dictatorship, all humans want is peace on their terms, no matter the consequences for the rest of the world. now I may sound cynical but please understand I want humans to be good, I just now realize that we will never be, while there is a small majority of us who do not think the same way, those we generally call sheeple are not ignorant, they are ignorant by choice. They don't want to know about the real world because deep down they are evil. They want their way of life to be the only way of life.

Maybe it's just the lack of sleep though hahaha.


PS. Feel free to move this anywhere, I am aware it is more a rant then anything.

[edit on 8-1-2010 by Occy Anonymous]

reply to post by Occy Anonymous


People aren't inherently evil. They're inherently like God. It's thier desires that drives them to conquer and build their apathy towards others. They dish out what they don't like to receive. It's quite a conundrum.

[edit on 8-1-2010 by juzchilln]

I wouldn't say that humans are "Evil" per se... but they are "Children" if you understand my meaning.

Humans have Instincts that are left over from when we actually NEEDED them.

Territoriality, Reproduction (The behaviors involved), etc...

In "Society" or "Civilization" we must work to "Domesticate" ourselves, so that we may live together for the mutual benefit of all.

The problem is that humans tend to revert to their old instincts fairly quickly when they have license to do so.

Like in the case of those in power.

People in power have their "Territoriality" instincts take over, (Because they are less constrained by the dictates of society, and the necessity of society) and thus, they inevitably go mad with power lust.

This manifests in Western society as corporations lobbying representatives to pass laws that are benefit to THEMSELVES, at the expense of the rest of the populous.

On this subject, I am going to have to refer to Frank Herbert:

All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted.
-Missionaria Protectiva,
Text QIV (decto)
-Frank Herbert, Chapterhouse Dune

-Edrick

Please explain to me how people voting for Obama on the basis that he will end the war is conducive to their hatefulness. It is the government that has refused to pull the troops out, not the people.

The government controls the media, or manipulates it at the very least, so that people will become fearful, and therefore, easy to rouse. People who go in the army think they are doing something good for their fellow man. There are casualties in war, all the time.

There is evil in the world. It raises it's head and sets it's sights on people who are trusting, who themselves wouldn't manipulate others because they themselves do not manipulate. Ever hear of a wolf in sheep's clothing? These type of people exist, and we know it. The thing is, by manipulating information, they exploit our readiness to slay the wolves and try to make it near impossible to know how evil a supposed enemy is, let alone if he exists.

There ARE some people who hate the west, for sure, but this is not good enough to send in troops. At most, we should provide assistance upon request to countries who see it the way we do. I disagree with your assessment of the state of mind of the troops, it is the corrupt politicians who send them away who are to blame. Notice how it makes no difference who is elected.

I understand both points made, but this means that humans are never going to change, everything else about us has supposedly evolved why not these ideals about territory? No matter what happens Humans will always fight each other and kill whole nations, even if one race comes to supreme power sub-cultures will divide them and more war will start and lead to more war and so on.

It's just really sad. We will never evolve if the majority constantly have this attitude.

reply to post by heyo


Obama did get elected on that basis but also on the underlying basis of expansion they saw Obama as a better figurehead to lead them, war is not the only way to rule.

While I do acknowledge a change in some peoples mentality the majority of people who voted for Obama didn't do so because they are good, but because they are sheep. They followed the lead of what they thought others wanted them to vote, they listened to celebrities because they are weak minded and malleable.

The minority do want to be good, many of the people on ATS for example, we are here to learn truths, but most simply want to live the best life THEY can, and damn the rest of the world.

reply to post by Occy Anonymous


I don't agree with anything you said in your post, but I give you a flag and star for your opinion and having the guts to post it, and have a discussion about it. Without communication, we wouldn't be able to fix our faults. So,

reply to post by Occy Anonymous


you're eyes are opened?

make sure you're looking in the right places then.

people are not inherently "bad".

many have been conditioned to be "bad".

there's a difference.

okay mate.. your first statement is a contradiction. "I thought the government was the problem. That the government was the bane of all evil" Let me explain something... the BANE of something is its downfall, its destroyer if you will.. not its friend, or foundation. and no. Not all people are bad.

reply to post by stanlee


Hahah yeah sorry grammatical error.

I'm sorry if it came across as every human is bad, I know there are people who are inherently good, but the good do not get into positions of power as often or as easily, no matter what the rich will lead, and the easiest way to become rich is through evil.

JPhish: Ill true and keep an eye out. Yes perhaps conditioned is a better phrase but deep down it is our primal instinct to kill and conquer.

jinx: Thankyou

Originally posted by Occy Anonymous
reply to post by heyo

 

Obama did get elected on that basis but also on the underlying basis of expansion they saw Obama as a better figurehead to lead them, war is not the only way to rule.

But on the underlying basis of expansion? you are using you assumption to prove that your assumption is correct.

Originally posted by Occy Anonymous

While I do acknowledge a change in some peoples mentality the majority of people who voted for Obama didn't do so because they are good, but because they are sheep. They followed the lead of what they thought others wanted them to vote, they listened to celebrities because they are weak minded and malleable.

I don't disagree with you totally, however there were many antiwar protests. They're gone now, because I think people feel hopeless and powerless. I think it's new for voters to have their decisions so casually tossed to the side. Also, keep in mind, being a sheep, or naive, or innocent, isn't the same as being inherently hateful.

Originally posted by Occy Anonymous
The minority do want to be good, many of the people on ATS for example, we are here to learn truths, but most simply want to live the best life THEY can, and damn the rest of the world.

I'm still not convinced of this anymore than I was before this thread. People have a right to take care of their own. If you don't worry about your own, bad things happen to your own. Just because some people are fortunate, it doesn't mean they should be brought down to the level of the unfortunate. It is not black and white, this concept. People should and do give to the needy, after they take care of their own needs, and the needs of those close to their heart.

reply to post by heyo


I understand what u mean brother, but we shouldn't take care of own needs by stripping away the resources of the more needy.

Yes but with the sheep thing I am saying they are ignorant by choice. They choose not learn more about the truth simply because they don't want to. Humans by and large only look out for themselves, that is no way to live.

And yeah, your right, it never is as simple as black and white, but in a war between good and evil it is, evil prevails when good men fail to attack, neutrality is just as evil.

reply to post by Occy Anonymous


People choose to remain ignorant, sure. This, however, isn't such a bad thing. No one wants the weight of the world compounded onto their own problems. It is unfair to expect this of people.
People are just starting to learn, thanks to the internet, what corporatism is all about. The knowledge will catch on soon imo. The amount of information we take in compared to all previous generations has grown exponentially, so don't take it personally when people don't catch on right away.

Sure, as Americans we deal with propaganda everyday. We are socially programmed with what to think, and what to do.

But you're right. In the end, we can only blame ourselves.

The Germans living under Hitler were also victims of propaganda, but in retrospect, the blame still falls on them. No excuses. The general population is what enabled it to happen.


The same goes for us today. We can only blame ourselves for letting the governments get perverted. It's our own fault, as humanity. We let it happen.

God gave each and every one of us a set of eyes, a set of ears, and a humongous brain to use. It's each of our responsibility to use them, and not pass the responsibility off to a "scientist" or "scholar" or "politician" and have them do the thinking for us.

[edit on 8-1-2010 by seattletruth]

People in general are not inherently evil. Given the chance most people would leave others alone. Its a small % that gravitates to power.

I agree with you a lot, and have felt this way for a while now.

It is my guess that you have only NOW realized that people are this way because they want to be... and no matter how much we try, this cannot be changed.

We will never evolve into a better species, or be a species that outsiders would be proud to know.

It is true, if there are alien beings watching us, they can easily see how primitive and non-peaceful we are. You can easily reason that if this were you, an advanced species from somewhere else, these humans are nothing but bad news.
We cannot even treat other humans with respect and dignity, despite being more similar than different.... How do you think we would treat a different species altogether??


It is true. People like us can see the truths, while others cannot. The ignorant outnumber us greatly, so the destruction and hell on earth will continue. We are just along for the ride.

With any luck, the human species will end up wiping itself out, and finally another creature or civilization could be given a chance to see if they can do better.
-- Past civilizations have wiped themselves out... I have no doubt we will, too. And maybe this earth could then be used for good, for all of mother nature's beautiful creatures.

reply to post by LostNemesis


Thats what I believe too. Humanity has so much potential according to us but in reality we are sick monsters. We've had how many thousand of years to change and all we are doing is building bigger and bigger weapons.

Hopefully our replacements will be more enlightened.

Im not a human so im not evil

reply to post by Occy Anonymous


The OP may not be 100% right, but he/she makes some good points IMO.

I think all humans are capable of good and evil. The choice is ours.

You have to remember that governments are composed of people too. People are not perfect, and our natural instincts to preserve our own existence sometime comes into conflict with "our duty to society". That is certainly no excuse to perform evil acts, but people are easily mislead into doing evil things though a misguided sense of loyalty, or in the belief that they are doing something which is in their eyes good. I agree that "tribalism" also can stop people thinking for themselves, and cause people to perform misguided or evil acts.

There was an experiment done which demonstrates how easily people can ditch all sense of moral proportion when they are told that what they are doing is "right, and for the greater good".

What's amazing about these experiments is the astonishing willingness of people to deliver shocks above 150 volts to victims who are writhing in pain, screaming and begging for them to stop. Using nothing more than the application of verbal authority, these study subjects continued to torture and apparently cause great pain and suffering to another human being.

For many years, psychologists speculated the original studies must have somehow been flawed. Humans beings couldn't be so cruel and gullible, could they? But now this repeating of the study immediately clobbers any debate on the subject and forces us all to confront the terrible reality: Most human beings of all ages, races, religions, cultural upbringings and professions will actively torture, harm and even kill fellow human beings if ordered to do so.

Source: click here

Edit to add related link: Wikipedia - The Milgram experiment

Good thread. S+F'd!

[edit on 9-1-2010 by C.H.U.D.]