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Women who wear burkas on the street in France face fines of £700

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posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 07:51 PM
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Originally posted by Whine Flu
Alright. Looks like it's now time to start fining people that wear hoods over their head when wearing a hooded sweatshirt.

This is fascism, really. Who really cares how people dress? Who even cares about cultural identity? If you need clothes or custom to define who you are as a human, you need to do some really deep thinking. Seriously.

[edit on 8-1-2010 by Whine Flu]


Hoods dont cover their faces.




posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 07:52 PM
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Originally posted by psyko45
But if a nation claims to posess liberty, freedom or any of the other things I mentioned and it decides to interfere with ones faith or religion (assuming ones faith is not a safety risk)


there is the contradiction.... did I win?

second line....



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 07:53 PM
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Originally posted by bobs_uruncle

Originally posted by Occy Anonymous
reply to post by DEEZNUTZ
 


[*SNIP*] How can you say something like that without first living in one of these countries and experiencing the atrocities first hand? Moving shouldn't mean giving up your heritage, people shouldn't assimilate just because others are afraid of change. We need more diversity, not for everyone to be a blank generic clone of one nation.


DEEXNUTZ is right, if they don't want to adapt to our way of life, then take 'em down to da pier der 'bye and pudem on a boot for 'ome! (just trying out a newfie accent in type...lol).

France and Australia are both correct and within their rights as countries. Assimilate or get the hell out. Canada, the US and Britain should use their example.

Diversity without assimilation to the host country's culture destroys the host country's society. It has happened that way all throughout history, the Romans, Spanish and the Portuguese are excellent examples of multicultural societies gone horribly wrong. These societies were at the apex of their development (at the time) and in waltzed multiculturalism and ruh roh, the downhill slide to mediocrity started. Multiculturalism is the bane of structured society and an affront to local community security and prosperity. It also changes the political topographic, creating a totally fractured, self interest group based, lobbyist driven culture. If you want to experience different cultures, go live in another country and live by their rules, I did.

For all the politically correct out there, we may give away one free clue later.

Cheers - Dave

[edit on 1/8.2010 by bobs_uruncle]


You said France and Australia, but sadly, Australia is not taking such steps. I see Burkas every day here.



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 07:54 PM
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Originally posted by seeze82
I am a Muslim that lives in America. I was born here and born Muslim and I'm black too. Just wanted to give some insight to this debate.

I come to this site all the time but I usually just read the articles and posts. This one seemed like it needed a different perspective. I'm 27 and I do not "make" my wife wear a burka. She does cover her hair but that was her choice to do so. I wear a beard, not huge, but it has a meaning. In biblical times women covered and men wore beards. Any picture of Jesus or Abraham or Moses etc they have beards and these are our Prophets. The Virgin Mary wore a scarf in most pictures. Nuns today wear their hair covered. Amish women cover and Amish men have big beards. Jewish women cover and Jewish men have beards. It all stems from the same place.

Also, there are approx. 1 Billion Muslims in the world. Lots in Maylaysia and India, Africa etc. To say that "all" muslims do this or that is pretty crazy. I live in Cleveland Ohio and I can show you all types of Muslims here, not all of us get along (sunni/#e). The reason you dont see a lot of "good" Muslims talking about this war and how crazy these extremist are is because its not televised. There are many lectures out there against these "radicals". They are lower to us than people who dont believe at all. Not to be offensive to Atheist, because I've met some, but that just gives you an idea of how we feel. And I saw "we" meaning normal people (atleast normal to me). In the times of Muhammad, Jews and Christians were in Mecca and all around Saudi. They were not forced to convert either. Not saying its like that today but thats how it should be.

I catch people looking at my family and I sometimes but its no big deal. People ask questions all the time because they want to honestly know whats right and whats wrong. The TV can be decieving but it is real. There are some bad people that are giving the religion a bad name.

I've been overseas and even sometimes here, there are some Arabs that treat me bad. Not bad but they do not show me the same respect as someone that is Arab. Basically some think that because we are black we are the N word. Its cool because never would I think "ALL" Arabs are like that. I've met some great ones too that treat me good. Just some people have a bad perception of blacks: understood.

I only posted because it seems like everyone is generalizing. To know what 1 Billion people are like is not feasible. The Quran does not force women to wear Burkas. It is advised they cover their hair but that is because the hair on a women is beautiful and men get attracted by that (generally speaking). This is why their dress is modest and plain as well. It is to limit desires and temptation. It may be an old fashion way of thinking but if you look at Orthodox Jews and Christians they believe the same. Women in those societies dont wear revealing clothing.

I do not have all the answers. I am Sunni but not an extremist or radical. Just a regular guy really. If you have some questions I can try to get you answers from the texts in which we refer to. I am no scholar so I cannot promise you anything but I will try. The comments here are all healthy, people should be allowed to vent and say how they feel. Honestly, France has the right to do what they want. People are scared and tired of all this madness. These radicals are making it uncomfortable for us all. I have a hard time now too at airports etc. I understand it tho and do not get upset. Its all apart of life. Like others have said, people can always move somewhere else. Its not that easy but it can be done if that country is not tolerent of their beliefs.


There is a difference between your wife covering her hair, which is fine, and covering her face in places that non-Muslims are not allowed to cover their faces. ie. Banks.



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 07:57 PM
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Here is the point.

It should be illegal for ANYONE to roam around the streets with their faces covered in black like some ninja. People can not wear balaclavas in banks, yet Muslims can wear Burkas. So Muslims are allowed to do whatever they want, yet other people can not? That IS discrimination against non-Muslims.

Disallowing Muslims to wear burkas is just making it fair and even for everybody.



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 07:58 PM
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reply to post by tristar
 



No I am not French, but very live very close and now that we have an even "closer" Europe, will probably be affected by this sooner rather than later

France does have a long history of legislating against what it sees as a theat to its culture

in recent history; McDonalds, American Films, English language radio, English language music, Muslim headscarfs & since june / July of last year stepped up a campaign against burkas

France does not really seem to take into consideration its minorities and dictates that people should live as the majority. So i don't really see this as a mainly religious or xenophobic decision, merely as keeping minorities in tune with the mainstream

Wheteher I agree with that or not I'm not to sure, but as we can see other countries legislate in such a way, why not France?



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 08:03 PM
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If France is going to do this stuff why in hell do they let people immigrate there at all?



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 08:03 PM
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If I ran around in all black with a balaclava on, I would get arrested and not let into any building.

All buildings here have a "no helmet" policy and signs on the front of the doors at supermarkets and places like that.

Yet THIS is allowed?:
1.bp.blogspot.com...

That is bull#.

And quite frankly, if you dont like it, dont move here. I dont like the laws in Islamic countries so I dont move there, plain and simple, because I know my wife wouldnt be able to even show her arms in public. Do you think Id stand a chance protesting for her rights there? Yet they want to move here and do whatever they want? It is not like anyone forced them to move to western countries and then stripped them of their culture, they made a CHOICE to move here, so move here, and fit into the culture. If you want to live like you were in a Muslim country, move to a Muslim country.



[edit on 8-1-2010 by Mikeraphone]



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 08:04 PM
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reply to post by Mikeraphone
 



Banks are a no brainer. An obvious safety risk...I cant even believe Im responding to this person...any way...If I want to walk around in a ski-mask, to cover my ugly disfigured face I can and probably will...just not into a bank..probably one of the reasons I dont have a bank account. The closed mindedness here has no end



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 08:05 PM
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That is ridiculous you cant tell people how to dress. As long as they are covered up on their private parts thats about all you can ask for. And that is for obvious reasons. Unless you go to Africa and then you can do something different. To tell someone they cannot wear a scarf or hat or whatever is insane...

Maybe I feel like wearing a Robe and Hood and look like a Friar, are they gonna have a problem with that ??

This has all gone too far. I think we as a people have gone over the edge.

We are done.

Sanity has left the building.



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 08:06 PM
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Originally posted by psyko45
reply to post by Mikeraphone
 



Banks are a no brainer. An obvious safety risk...I cant even believe Im responding to this person...any way...If I want to walk around in a ski-mask, to cover my ugly disfigured face I can and probably will...just not into a bank..probably one of the reasons I dont have a bank account. The closed mindedness here has no end


Exactly, yet, you think people should be able to wear burkas in banks?



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 08:11 PM
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reply to post by Mikeraphone
 


Are you able to read? I said NOT into a bank. If I had a religion and had to make a choice to compromise it or do buisness with someone who made me compromise it I would do buisness elsewhere as I am going to do now by never communicating with you again.



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 08:12 PM
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reply to post by Mikeraphone
 


LOL yeah we get the point.

I personally don't think that burkas is actually supposed to be an islamic way of dressing, but muslims have different views on this.

But I do believe that people should have the choice if they desire to wear it outside. BUT if a bank wants to not accept a burka woman inside for saftey I can understand completely, and she should get a friend or her husband to sort her banking if she's that desperate, it's the choice she made.

But she should be allowed to walk outside with a burka if she desires. I mean it's simple respect. You don't walk up to a nun and tell her to take her cover off too or give you some money. It's about respect.



[edit on 8-1-2010 by _Phoenix_]



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 08:23 PM
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Originally posted by psyko45
reply to post by Mikeraphone
 


Are you able to read? I said NOT into a bank. If I had a religion and had to make a choice to compromise it or do buisness with someone who made me compromise it I would do buisness elsewhere as I am going to do now by never communicating with you again.


Right, well here, Burkas are allowed in banks, in shopping malls, schools, etc etc, places that balaclavas are rightfully not allowed. And in my opinion, neither should burkas.

I dont care what people wear at home, but once you get into a place where we are not allowed to cover our faces with balaclavas or bandanas or helmets or whatever, Muslims should not be able to cover their faces with burkas. It is only fair.



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 08:24 PM
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Originally posted by _Phoenix_
reply to post by Mikeraphone
 


LOL yeah we get the point.

I personally don't think that burkas is actually supposed to be an islamic way of dressing, but muslims have different views on this.

But I do believe that people should have the choice if they desire to wear it outside. BUT if a bank wants to not accept a burka woman inside for saftey I can understand completely, and she should get a friend or her husband to sort her banking if she's that desperate, it's the choice she made.

But she should be allowed to walk outside with a burka if she desires. I mean it's simple respect. You don't walk up to a nun and tell her to take her cover off too or give you some money. It's about respect.



[edit on 8-1-2010 by _Phoenix_]


Yes but the point is, a nun doesnt cover her whole face.



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 08:36 PM
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£700 is a bit steep


But I agree with the principal of it. We're expected to observe other countries laws, so why is it not a two-way street?

Its a load of bs when you think about it really. As with most religions, muslims do not follow their religion word for word. Its just not practical. And Im assuming that wearing a burka in public would also fall into this category now seeing as it isnt really practical to get slapped with a £700 fine everytime you want to nip to the shops.



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 08:44 PM
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just looking at this picture, makes me puke i hope france ban it. no woman is free with that ninja suit on.






old school burka !






this is european people





support the Ban in all european cities ! go france gooo



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 09:10 PM
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reply to post by aspx
 


I really like that 2nd picture. How could they have possible known which way the camera was?!

[edit on 8/1/10 by Bluebelle]



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 09:28 PM
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reply to post by serbsta
 


While I think that this law that France passed is stupid
for the reasons that were proffered, the arguments profferd
with respect to diversity are stupid.

Why? A nation cannot remain a nation with different cultures
unless is supreme.

Multiculturism is a meme to desolve a nation.

What describes a nation? Culture. "Mix" that culture and the
nation dessolves.

Name me one nation that is a nation of many cultures? It doesn't
exist.


Feminism: This is an effort to destroy the family. Not believable?
Well look at the record of former Playboy pinup Gloria Steinem:

portland.indymedia.org...



There are so many straw man arguments presented but few facts.

In Connecticut a few years ago slaughtered cats were found;
It was surmised that Jamaicans were doing this.

I don't recall the case with precision, but a case was brought
against a person slaughtering goats in his backyard.
I don't recall the decision.

Three houses down from me a man was raising chickens. Didn't
bother me, but some people were upset that he slaughtered them
on his own property. He's Italian. Old country. Speaks english
haltingly. He no longer raises chickens.

Most towns and cities prohibit the slaughtering of animials execept
in certain areas, with a permit.

Culture? Acceptable?

I don't see any recongintion that Muslim culture is not compatible
with Christian culture.

I worked with a Muslim from Morrocco. Nice guy. We played chess
at lunch. I met his wife. Very nice couple. Neither upset me; neither
tried to convert me.

There are wackos in every religion. Case in point: Zionist Christians.
Absolutely nutbars. dispensationalists. Do a search.

The point is still Multiculturalism is a tactic to rip appart a nation, and
feminism is one tactic.



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 09:29 PM
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reply to post by serbsta
 


While I think that this law that France passed is stupid
for the reasons that were proffered, the arguments profferd
with respect to diversity are stupid.

Why? A nation cannot remain a nation with different cultures
unless is supreme.

Multiculturism is a meme to desolve a nation.

What describes a nation? Culture. "Mix" that culture and the
nation dessolves.

Name me one nation that is a nation of many cultures? It doesn't
exist.


Feminism: This is an effort to destroy the family. Not believable?
Well look at the record of former Playboy pinup Gloria Steinem:

portland.indymedia.org...



There are so many straw man arguments presented but few facts.

In Connecticut a few years ago slaughtered cats were found;
It was surmised that Jamaicans were doing this.

I don't recall the case with precision, but a case was brought
against a person slaughtering goats in his backyard.
I don't recall the decision.

Three houses down from me a man was raising chickens. Didn't
bother me, but some people were upset that he slaughtered them
on his own property. He's Italian. Old country. Speaks english
haltingly. He no longer raises chickens.

Most towns and cities prohibit the slaughtering of animials execept
in certain areas, with a permit.

Culture? Acceptable?

I don't see any recongintion that Muslim culture is not compatible
with Christian culture.

I worked with a Muslim from Morrocco. Nice guy. We played chess
at lunch. I met his wife. Very nice couple. Neither upset me; neither
tried to convert me.

There are wackos in every religion. Case in point: Zionist Christians.
Absolutely nutbars. dispensationalists. Do a search.

The point is still Multiculturalism is a tactic to rip appart a nation, and
feminism is one tactic.



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