Women who wear burkas on the street in France face fines of £700

My God, some of the replies to this topic are really making me sick.

Just accept that not everybody follows the same religion or cultural beliefs as you. You shouldn't be offended if a person touts a burkha, a star of david, a christian cross or a bloody satanic pentagram etched into their foreheads.

If a person covering their face in public is asked by a police officer to reveal their face for an identity check, they usually oblige. If they don't oblige, then they might get in trouble.

Be tolerant, and if they hurt you or your loved ones physically, call the Police.

I really can't wait until all the arrogant and multi-culturally-intollerant people are round up and put to sleep.

Originally posted by Unrealised
My God, some of the replies to this topic are really making me sick.

Just accept that not everybody follows the same religion or cultural beliefs as you. You shouldn't be offended if a person touts a burkha, a star of david, a christian cross or a bloody satanic pentagram etched into their foreheads.

If a person covering their face in public is asked by a police officer to reveal their face for an identity check, they usually oblige. If they don't oblige, then they might get in trouble.

Be tolerant, and if they hurt you or your loved ones physically, call the Police.

I really can't wait until all the arrogant and multi-culturally-intollerant people are round up and put to sleep.

i think most people on here dont mind other religions and repesct other peoples beliefs and choices .
what poeple are annoyed about including me are these muslims shout help move to someone elses country then refuse to abide by there rules.
either my country or france has asked these people the our countries THEY asked for asylum and then they refuse to adhere to that countries rules when we all know that if an english woman or a french woman went to there countries we would have to abide by there rules or face death.

if you go to someones country you should abide by there rules.

if the french people wish to have a rule where no one is to cover there face then why not it just the opersite end of the scale to a country like afganistan, these women are lucky they just get a fine in afganistan they would be stoned, shot or beaten to death.

in england at the moment many (not all) musleams are trying to force shia law on enlgand or sitting in the streets shouting profanities about our laws and country if they hate it here so much move away but they wont because if they move back to there countries of origian they wont get the free homes and benifits its a fact.

it does worry me that because of all the muslim extremeists now the white extremists are starting to appear and group up, but this will happen and it does scare me in a sense because i definatly dont want the bnp in power.
you only have to go on there website and see what 'radical' idiotiotic they are.
but it doesnt help when the police force are supporting the muslims right march through a town that represnts the dead soldiers, yes many do not agree with the war but out of respect for the families the head police chief should now have agreed they have a right to march, its just more fuel for the fire unfortuantly for white radicals.

this country is going to pot because the goverment and the pc brigade is so concerned about keeping the immigrants happy they are forgetting about the residents of this county which does include black and asian residents.

reply to post by jeanne75018


your country is swamped, a quick visit to your major citites proves that- get off your knees

reply to post by jeanne75018


Dear Jeanne, last summer, a communist député, André Gerin had a request cosigned by dozens of Parliament's members from all parties to create a parliamentary survey commission regarding the use of burqas and launch this debate. It had the French government embarrassed at first, do you remember ?
Historically, "régions" always go to the opposition and they are not fought around national questions. No one will dare use this for the Régionales, he will automatically be accused of trying to disrupt the campaign and to divert from the real "régionales" issues and lose. In any political topic, there is a public opinion manipulation to some extent, so far this topic has been kept out of unnecessary and useless polemics and all parties are working together to try and find an intelligent, fair and consensual solution. At least, they look like they are. Do you hear the National Front much on the issue ? No. One mistake, one blunder will cost dearly politically. This is just not going to be used to serve any agenda, I think the French are on their toes on this and ready to roar.
You are. I believe that's why you are being very vigilant on how Sarkozy could use it. But I believe you are wrong, he won't because it will cost him in the end.

Read the thread again. On what terms this is discussed ? Angloworld terms (hear the fury coming...). Race and religion, religion and race. This is not at all the basis of the discussion in France. On this board, the discussion is clearly influenced by English-speaking MSM which is very natural of course but very far out from the topical issue.
You rightly explained the French society is peaceful on religious issues. But on the other hand, you participate here in the division, looking for division amongst the people The way this supposed debate has derailed here only favours division and light accusations.
I believe many of our fellow members here want a "real" look at what is happening outside the world not the media babbling. Me, I am happy to read in this board new, real, grounded, sincere views of american, british, australian members that are different from what MY media are showing of them.
To me, the worthiest thing ATS could achieve is this, jumping over the media fence that is keeping different cultural spheres to know each other by forwarding distorted and divisive facts. It is miserably failing right now. But it could work, most of us here, we don't really trust our news channel but we still rely on it to shape our world's view. No, it is not like the news channel says.

Originally posted by Unrealised


I really can't wait until all the arrogant and multi-culturally-intollerant people are round up and put to sleep.

Tolerance... A word that belongs exclusively to the intolerant. Otherwise, how can you with an angry face talk about rounding people up and 'putting them to sleep' (killing them, I presume!)?

Originally posted by Unrealised


I really can't wait until all the arrogant and multi-culturally-intollerant people are round up and put to sleep.

like a multi cultural Hitler then


Wise up, read what you are posting, complete contradiction

Multi culturalism is an extremist ideology oppressing indigenous peoples

reply to post by blueorder

Multi culturalism is an extremist ideology oppressing indigenous peoples

Wow. That's a mouthful in one little bite.

Care to explain? Why is multiculturalism extremist? I would consider it fairly mainstream here in Canada.

Why does it oppress indigenous peoples? You are talking not about Native Americans, or Australian Aboriginals but white Europeans, right? In the European context you guys are the indigenous ones; at least for the last few hundred years or so.

It occurs to me that is somewhat relativistic as there is probably no place on earth that has not for eons had a continuous influx and migration of peoples from other places. Now you want to freeze things at the status quo.

While your customs and traditions may be challenged by immigration, I hardy think they are oppressed. In places like Canada there is actually a final "sum" cuture that is greater than any of its "parts" represented by everything from the original native culture, the European immigrants and now immigrants from every part of the globe.

No-one is oppressed, but we are all pushed to be more than we were.

First - I did NOT read all of the replies as I didn't want to be influenced before I gave MY thoughts on this matter.

I agree with this law - to a degree.

I Believe that freedoms are being taken away from all of the world (not just France or the USA) in too large a number!

BUT I agree with the security issue that the Burka presents.

This way of dressing covers the face. It Hides who is under the "face mask" so that other people can't see who they are.

So ammend the law to state something like "if in a public place it is manditory to have your face exposed" = not very good wording but you get the idea.

If someone wants to wear a scarf or sari (sp?) or any other "native" clothing then so be it - freedom.

But "hiding behind a mask" (again for security reasons) should be the law.

Just MY thinking on this matter.

As a western woman, I feel threatened by the burka.
I don't want to end up being forced to wear one some day.
There's no way I want to go anywhere that I would be expected to wear one either. No way.

Also, in my mind, I can't compare the Burka to wearing a cross, star of David or pentacle.

When it comes to wearing a cross, men and women both do that.
I don't see men wearing the Burka even if they are devout. If it is that religous, why is it that ONLY women have to wear them to be devout? Especially since they are not prescribed by the Koran?

I think it's bad enough we have to wear bras. Torture devices, I tell ya. Oh we don't HAVE to, but you'll get some funny looks if you go out and don't have one, especially at my age. lol

BUT, I see a lot of countries where women wear bras and have rights. I do not see a lot of countries in which the burka is common and the women enjoy any sort of equality.

[edit on 15-1-2010 by hadriana]

Now that I have read all of the above I want to add a few things.

Last year we were in Egypt.

When I was "in public" I wore items of clothing that covered both my knees and shoulders. I put on a head covering when I entered a Mosque.

I still wore short sleeved shirts (they just covered my shoulders) and wore the "just below the knee" type pants.

I did this for RESPECT for the country I was visiting. I was a Guest in that country.

Just as I would Respect the "rules" of someone's home if/when I visit. If there is a house rule that I remove my shoes - I will remove my shoes. When at home I will wear my shoes anywhere I want.

I agree with the posters that say - "When in Rome...."

If someone from another culture or religious background comes TO LIVE in a new country - then the "House Rules" should be followed.

It is just a sign of RESPECT to the nation they are now in.

reply to post by hadriana


Since when have woman been FORCED to wear burkas in your country? If a woman want's to wear a burka good for her, if she is being forced by her family or community( which is common) then that issue needs to be addressed. But taking away the right of a woman to choose is nothing short of disgusting.

[edit on 15-1-2010 by Solomons]

reply to post by Solomons


I really do not know when women have or have not been forced to wear one in my country. I can't, as a western woman in a very HOT state, imagine why anyone would want to of their own free will though.
I've only known ONE woman that did, and I do know that it was expected of her by her husband. She CHOSE to OBEY her husband.

That's scary to me too, cause her husband was an idiot.

Originally posted by searching4truth
reply to post by jeanne75018

 

lol, thanks for the the on the ground, and I agree that it is political tatic. But help me to understand.....
the TOTAL number of burka wearing women is less than 400 and the majority are Catholic converts to Islam so.....once again the claim of holding on to ones heritage is mute.

Sure. And if some were born muslims, most of the time they were grounded in a non-religious family and started to wear the burqa lately because they feel they need to show the world they are good muslims. I live next to Barbès in Paris, which is where many muslims live and I've never seen a burqa there. I know there are some in some suburbs of Paris or Lyon where fondamentalists are more active though.
By the way, Zacharia Moussaoui was born in a athee family. Her mother has never worn a scarf, never sent him to mosquee. Actually, many muslims in France don't practice their religion. They only follow the "ramadan" for one month, because it is fun to do.

reply to post by Manouche

André Gerin was totally unknown and used burqa to be in the limelight and maybe, why not, start a national political career...

reply to post by Manouche


Are you French? As far as I know, Marine Lepen, the head of the National Front, went on TV on thursday evening to speak about national identity (and burqa). National Front always said from the start of this debate* that they were very happy this "problem" was eventually "put on the table" (as we say in french, don't know how to translate it).

* Eric Besson, the minister of immigration and national identity decided to launch a great debate about national identity. Many debates are taking place and it was due at first to get to a conclusion just before the regional elections. But, many thought it was a too strange coincidence and it was then decided by our President to last longer.

I would suggest that in practice there is a whole scale of choice in wearing the burqa - from totally free choice to extreme pressure to subtle persuasion. Those in the middle are more difficult to identify and would be helped by such a law.
Personally I think it impedes communication as well as being 'alien'. There is no religious requirement to wear it. It is more often a case of setting oneself apart from the pervasive culture. It's a 'statement'.
If people feel the need to segregate themselves and live differently to such a degree, why aren't they living in a country more suited? After all, just taking the UK, it's not as if you can claim you are here for the weather...
But I think we know the answer to that.

I carried this conversation to about 20 of my female friends, mostly professional women and homemakers. Most agreed that they were either threatened or greatly saddened by the burka, but as we talked more, we came to realize that we were not all on the same page. Many of them had heard burka and thought it was long dress, head and neck covering - face exposed. A few just thought we were speaking of the head and neck covering.

When we clarified our definition - the complete face covering including the eyes, or JUST the eyes visible - then we all came to a consensus that we did not like it one bit - not one of us Several stated that when they had seen that in public it made them shake and feel sick.

So...where does one person's rights end and another's begin?
Old question, that.

[edit on 16-1-2010 by hadriana]

Im gald.

im not bashing them but theres to much culture shock going on.!

here they want to wear them while they get their ID/drivers liscense as well!

and I personally have no problem if they want to hood themselves up but flooding another culture with their beleifs and demanding to walk in the isles of planes to pray is starting to become to much.

the chinese who come here or people from mexico are cool but the muslim religous stuff is shoving it down our throats.

whole communties now..

and they also in the UK want their own religous courts for their system.

this is nutts and sick!!!


also,,the men should wear the veils as well...yuk

my mom was a big fan of norman rockwell and his art,,we lived next to a baskin robins ice cream shop,,,

where its now it like the united nations on foreigners who care less about the country their in.

every penny they make is western unioned out of the US as well...

I worry now if i was injured on the ground theyd walk rate around you if not step on you and not even call 911 to help you...

i dont pitty if they get fined and i am glad...

as i said,,if i was president id do more!





[edit on 16-1-2010 by amyfriend]

[edit on 16-1-2010 by amyfriend]

found this while lookng at the news thought it might be interesting to add to the topic.

news.bbc.co.uk...

my view is yes ban it as you all probally know but its interesting how its becoming a bigger issue across the world

this is an interesting quote ''But Mr Farage said: "I can't go into a bank with a motorcycle helmet on. I can't wear a balaclava going round the District and Circle line.''

news.bbc.co.uk...
another good link abotu a woman banned from wearing a 'burkini' at a french swimming pool.

there are some lonk on the first story about how france might be banning the burka

[edit on 17/1/2010 by kerrichin]

[edit on 17/1/2010 by kerrichin]

Originally posted by hadriana
When we clarified our definition - the complete face covering including the eyes, or JUST the eyes visible - then we all came to a consensus that we did not like it one bit - not one of us

[edit on 16-1-2010 by hadriana]

Careful, Hadriana. If you want to be precise, if one can see even just the eyes, it's not a burqa, it's a niqab. The burqa has a grid hiding the eyes.