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Women who wear burkas on the street in France face fines of £700

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posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 07:15 PM
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Just to add my two cents to the whole thing,

1) I think the whole ruckus that has us throwing the right to privacy to the wind in the name of safety is silly.

however

2) I do firmly believe that if you move to a country, it is your job to assimilate to it, not it to you.

I understand the arguments some have made about immigrants escaping this or that, or the other, however, they chose to escape rather than stay and fight to the death in their country to make it what they wanted it to be. (Not that I blame them for that, necessarily) Secondly, they chose to escape into certain countries, and not others. (presumably because the laws there made it easier for them to do so, or they felt that country offered them the best quality of life.)

While I agree that diversity is good, and that bringing in some elements of other nations cultures in can be good for society, (food, holidays, art, etc.) I still feel that expecting immigrants to assimilate is not only fair, it is the only reasonable thing to do. If you dont like a country, its laws, its political system, etc., dont move there. If your country is so broken that you are fleeing for your life, maybe some of the cultural values you are so insistent on importing to your new home are part of the reason it was so broke you had to flee for your life.




posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 07:33 PM
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Originally posted by kerrichin
heres a thought if i go to saudi arabia and wear a bikini and paint my nails and uncover my face then by there laws i can be stones, or locked up.


Very true, or go to Dubai and get caught having sex while not married.

ca.reuters.com...

Bottom line, dont go to a country if you dont want to play by their rules. Dont immigrate there, and dont spend your tourist dollars there.



posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 01:28 AM
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I've read the thread and I've seen some pretty disgusting comments.

On the other hand, I've seen some great comments also, in regard to Cultural Diversity.

Let me make a comparison with Music.

I listen to bands like Slayer, Slipknot, Meshuggah, Rage against the Machine, Cannibal Corpse and Faith no more just to name a few.

Am I going to call somebody names or hurt them in any way because I don't like the music that they listen to? The answer is no, because that would just be childish.

I can't (or can I?) believe the level of Cultural intolerance that is epidemic in this world of ours. In this day and age you would think that we would have reached the intelligent conclusion that a Human is a Human.

If a person is hurting somebody because of their cultural, religious or personal activities or beliefs then yes, that person may have to reconsider their place in Society.

So for all you people who truly understand that the problem isn't with religion or culture, but with Society, I bow my hat to you.

To all you people who think that wearing a Burkha by choice is a bad thing, go and worship your God, television, and shut your mouths.



posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 03:39 AM
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Originally posted by Occy Anonymous


BY your shallow I think it's pretty safe to assume exactly what you have fun. You have live a spoilt life just like me just like anyone who live in the west.



You are mired in assumption and telling people what they have or have not done in their lives- that is the height of arrogance




Your whole argument is based on hypocrisy.


No it isn't



You condemn an Arab nation for having laws like this, yet you will gladly support it when one of your nations passes one? Hahahahaha.


Sorry what, which Arab nation am I condemning for having "laws" like this- and as I am quite unequivocal in my opposition to the spread of Islam in the West, even if I had condemned this mystery Arab nation it would not be hypocritical- my concern is the west, not what some backward arab nation does



Seriously mate, you can't say it's not cool for an Arab nation to pass a law that woman have to be covered to protect modesty(not to mention from the extremists) and then say it is cool that France passes one. I am sorry you are so hell bent on revenge, now good bye and good luck. Because yes this is exactly like how the whole Hitler business started, BUT LUCKY YOU, you're on the majority sides.



No idea what you are blethering about, Arab nations can pass whatever medievel laws they wish, I am concerned with Muslims moving into the West and bringing such backward notions with them



posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 03:41 AM
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reply to post by Unrealised
 


You have a high opinion of yourself, which, when you look at your argument, is not warranted with your trite little heavy metal music comparison



posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 04:22 AM
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Originally posted by blueorder
reply to post by Unrealised
 


You have a high opinion of yourself, which, when you look at your argument, is not warranted with your trite little heavy metal music comparison



What the hell do you mean I have a high opinion of myself?

I never said I was better than anyone. Get a grip and breathe for a moment.

I simply stated that Society as a whole needs to understand that the beliefs of a Person, as long as they are not harming anyone, should be tolerated.

The whole arguement of using music as a comparison is just that: a comparison arguement.

I could have said that people who like German Shepperds shouldn't hate those People who like Poodles.

I guess it just went over your head, hey?





posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 04:32 AM
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Originally posted by Unrealised
What the hell do you mean I have a high opinion of myself?

I never said I was better than anyone. Get a grip and breathe for a moment.



lecturing people with a different view on the Bhurka as some sort of slaves to TV




I simply stated that Society as a whole needs to understand that the beliefs of a Person, as long as they are not harming anyone, should be tolerated.


I agree, beliefs are fine, a black lad can believe that blacks are better than whites and vice versa- this is not belief this is about the public statement of oppression (whether self motivated, which is likely to be only a very small minority of such bee keepers) declaring some several hundred year old custom from the arabic world (and now closely associated with some followers of Islam) is now to be worn on the stylish streets of Paris





The whole arguement of using music as a comparison is just that: a comparison arguement.


yes, but it is a trite one in my opinion



I could have said that people who like German Shepperds shouldn't hate those People who like Poodles.



again trite



I guess it just went over your head, hey?



ironic



posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 05:11 AM
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Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

Originally posted by kerrichin
heres a thought if i go to saudi arabia and wear a bikini and paint my nails and uncover my face then by there laws i can be stones, or locked up.


Very true, or go to Dubai and get caught having sex while not married.

ca.reuters.com...

Bottom line, dont go to a country if you dont want to play by their rules. Dont immigrate there, and dont spend your tourist dollars there.



this is one of the reasons i do not wnt to holiday anyhere with these laws.
i do not agree with there policies so this is why oi do not go to there countries but it should be the same here and immigration is a little more perminent than a holiday.
if these people hate our ideals and lifestyles dont move here or any other country, especially when that said country is handing out free money and housing.



posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 03:46 PM
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I haven't read through the 14 pages, but people seem to be missing a big point here, namely that THE LAW HASN'T BEEN PASSED YET.
Sorry for the caps, but I think it's important people get the facts right before praising or blaming France. There is much controversy about that law here and I think it'll take some time before it is implemented, if it is.



posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by Occy Anonymous
reply to post by purplemonkey
 


how are u in any way giving up your own culture? this is one world, one people who are all different but the same, they shouldn't have to give up their cultures to suit others. You can still have you culture so long as it doesn't include bigotry or racism.


So my partner and I ever go over there, then she shouldnt have to give up her culture and cover up then (although legally she will have to in most islamic nations or face prosecution)....according to your way of thinking





posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 04:26 PM
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reply to post by seattletruth
 

I totally agree with you. This is all very hypocritical.
I'm French and I can tell you that the burqa issue is not one as the women wearing them were counted by the "Renseignements généraux" (a kind of secret police we have) and they are less than 400! The burqa is only a political tactic for our President Sarkozy and his party (right wing) to win the next elections where we'll vote for the heads of the regions which are for most of them in left hands!
Moreover, many of the women wearing burqas are young catholics girls who recently converted to muslim religion and just want to shock.



posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 04:47 PM
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tough to take a position up on this one

On one hand it's blatantly flying in the face of islamic tradition, but on the other, they are right when they say it oppresses women. I'm happy for them to not have to cover themselves, it's very regressive and backward if you ask me.

I hope they implement the law, but only after talks with representatives of the islamic population over there. They need to understand each other, and IMO islam needs to adapt to the modern world, other religions seem to be able to progress in different ways, I think this is a big step forward, even though some might be offended by it.



posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 04:54 PM
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reply to post by jeanne75018
 


lol, thanks for the the on the ground, and I agree that it is political tatic. But help me to understand.....
the TOTAL number of burka wearing women is less than 400 and the majority are Catholic converts to Islam so.....once again the claim of holding on to ones heritage is mute.



posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 05:01 PM
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My stance:

You are free to worship as you choose. You are free to speak the language that you choose (IN YOUR OWN HOME). But don't expect the entire nation, regardless if it's the UK, France, Australia or the US, to bend around your religious dogmas or learn your language. As far as I am concerned, when you move into someone else's well-established country, you must learn that culture, language, habits, etc. You must change yourself to fit in with the consensus whole. An example was a case in Nebraska where Islamic men were demanding to their employer that they be given time during the work day to pray. This eventually led to a walk out and all the Islamic men were fired. Link: www.usatoday.com...

Just learn the culture and language, and there won't be a problem. I think it was kind of wrong for the French Gov't to ban burkas.



posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 06:09 PM
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Originally posted by seattletruth

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by blueorder
 




Just look the failed attempts of the US to influence Iraq and Afghanistan culture and heritage.

A fiasco because US has lost its own identity a long time ago that can not longer influence those it invades.



Did you really just say that?? Are you really that much of a fascist?

You believe that not only do countries have the right to make everyone "assimilate" when they immigrate to said country.. But that imperialistic nations like the U.S. have the right to imposed OUR culture onto other nations that we invade!???!

Your argument falls into crumbles.

Shouldn't, by your standards, the U.S. have to assimilate to THEIR culture, considering that we literally invaded their country by FORCE?

You are the definition of a fascist. However, most fascists here atleast make logical sense, arguing for the culture of any country. You however, just believe that the west is morally superior, and we should also impose our culture on every other nation. If they don't like it, tough.

But if you don't like them LIVING THEIR OWN LIVES, not forcing their culture on YOU, unless you just don't feel comfortable even LOOKING at them, then they have to change to fit what you want.

Like I said, you are the definition of FASCIST.

You will probably only realize how stupid and brainwashed you are on your death bed, which will be sad for you, but good for the rest of the world that doesn't want to conform to your imperialism.

People like you are literally the reason Islamic terrorism exists. Blame yourself.

Fascist? Racist, for sure! You shouldn't argue with them, it no use.

France is light years from being "invaded" by muslims! And if we did have problems with our suburbs in 2005, this was due to poverty and unemployment and ghettos, nothing else.
The great majority of the muslims living in France are peaceful and just want to work and send their children to school because they want them to be informaticians or doctors and be fully integrated and be part of the system to make it work.
Please don't forget France had colonized many north African countries and of course exploited them. In the 60's we asked the people of the ex-colonies to come to work to France and we were very happy to find them as they were cheap and courageous.
One last thing, in France we have many mixed marriages (about 30 000 a year), much more than any other european country (and much more the in the USA I believe), so it is very likely that they will be mixed within French before the doom some are speaking about.



posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 06:36 PM
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Originally posted by SkurkNilsen
Is there a law in France against wearing a cross, the star of David, or the funny little hat Jewish guys use? How about turbans, Buddha medallions or white wrist bands?

If not, the it seems highly hipocritical....


Yes, there is one: it is forbidden to wear any too visible religious sign in school. It means you have to hide your cross of David, kippa, hidjab or satanic tatoo you may have in your neck... This law must have been voted four years ago, I think.
At first, it was only about hidjab but it seemed a little bit too hypocritical, so they decided to also forbid the other religious signs. At first, the Jews were upset, but they had to accept it...
Actually, the muslims are a very convenient target: you immediately get the voices of the "Front national" which is a strong political (xenophobe) party (represents about 10 % of the votes).



posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 06:55 PM
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Jeanne your a breath of fresh air, love your posts.





posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 11:41 PM
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==>> WHAT'S A BURKA?

Sounds silly to ask, but just try to describe it in court.

Just what is the legal difference between a Burka and a Ski Mask?

How long before some cop arrests some ski instructor who's been shaggin his wife on the slopes of Mont Blanc on the grounds that his ski mask is a Burka?

How long before someone who hates Andrew Lloyd Webber arrests the leading actor in "Phantom Of The Opera"?

This is the stuff that lawyers dreams are made of - big bucks for a stupid argument taking hours in court, charging it to wealthy clients and/or the taxpayer.



posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 12:10 AM
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Originally posted by blueorder

Originally posted by Unrealised
What the hell do you mean I have a high opinion of myself?

I never said I was better than anyone. Get a grip and breathe for a moment.



lecturing people with a different view on the Bhurka as some sort of slaves to TV




I simply stated that Society as a whole needs to understand that the beliefs of a Person, as long as they are not harming anyone, should be tolerated.


I agree, beliefs are fine, a black lad can believe that blacks are better than whites and vice versa- this is not belief this is about the public statement of oppression (whether self motivated, which is likely to be only a very small minority of such bee keepers) declaring some several hundred year old custom from the arabic world (and now closely associated with some followers of Islam) is now to be worn on the stylish streets of Paris





The whole arguement of using music as a comparison is just that: a comparison arguement.


yes, but it is a trite one in my opinion



I could have said that people who like German Shepperds shouldn't hate those People who like Poodles.



again trite



I guess it just went over your head, hey?



ironic



Okay, so from what I gather about your statements, you think that the 'stylish' streets of Paris shouldn't be invaded by Burkhas? Wow, you really are a fascist, my friend. I was willing to leave it alone but I won't.

It is people like you that are the cause of racism and religious intolerance in the world. It's people like you that allowed the Nazis to wage a holocaust on the Jews.

Just understand that this world isn't made up of one mind that speaks the same language and thinks the same way. It is a diverse and beautiful creation of nature that must be cared for.

Just enjoy your life, and I hope one of your children discovers the beauty of Islam or Judaism so that you can have a session of insight and self-reflection.

So by your way of thinking, I guess it's okay to say that French Culture is gross. They eat frogs and snails. French men look like women and the women look like anorexic aliens. Their 'fashion' claim to fame is just retarded because fashion is for people who drink white wine with breakfast and above all, French people smell.

Of course, none of the above is what I believe, it's all just a stereotypically racist thing to say. Same goes for your comments about the burkha being some old bloody left over from the arab world making its way into Islam and in turn invading Paris.

Stylish Parisian streets, Jesus, that made me laugh and puke at the same time.

Peace



[edit on 15-1-2010 by Unrealised]



posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 03:38 AM
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I live in a town in spain where there more than 25.000 immigrants, im one of them. There are (at the last count) around 15.000 morrocans, which in a town of only 60.000 people is a huge number. Here you see the burka and muslim girls in jeans and mini skirts. On a wall in one of the most densly muslim packed streets someone spray painted the words "INTERGRACION O EXPULSION" in english "INTERGRATION OR EXPLUSION". I fully agree with this, if you reside in another country as an immirant then you must abide by their laws and customs. What you do in your own house is up to you. I agree that you shouldnt loose your customs but if they come into conflict with the host country, then you must abide..If you go on holiday to eygpt or a muslim country when you enter certain sites you must go with your head and legs covered, you are the vistor and therefore must abide with the laws and customes of said country. Why should the laws be different for muslim that wish to live in europe.



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