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Women who wear burkas on the street in France face fines of £700

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posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by Dark Ghost
 


Not an excuse, that's what happened. I don't know why I'm continuing on this small example, however, I am. She is not a violent person, she doesn't fight people or just go around hitting people (I feel perhaps I have mislead you on her normal character which is why I suppose I'm continuing). That being said, this man felt he should be able to walk up to her and her sister and say sexual statements without provocation and that it would be acceptable, or at the very least no consequence to his disgusting behavior. It is never acceptable to disrespect another, he disrespected and she him. The whole situation was wrong. I suppose the alternative was she could have gone home and told her brother or father and they would have gone and beat the crap out of him, but of course she didn't know him so that is not likely to have happened, nor did she even think about alternatives at the time. Honestly, if some strange man walked up to me and began speaking in the same manner he'd probably get slapped too. What should I smile and walk away? Call him some names?




posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 11:18 PM
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Originally posted by searching4truth
Not an excuse, that's what happened. I don't know why I'm continuing on this small example, however, I am. She is not a violent person, she doesn't fight people or just go around hitting people (I feel perhaps I have mislead you on her normal character which is why I suppose I'm continuing). That being said, this man felt he should be able to walk up to her and her sister and say sexual statements without provocation and that it would be acceptable, or at the very least no consequence to his disgusting behavior. It is never acceptable to disrespect another, he disrespected and she him. The whole situation was wrong. I suppose the alternative was she could have gone home and told her brother or father and they would have gone and beat the crap out of him, but of course she didn't know him so that is not likely to have happened, nor did she even think about alternatives at the time. Honestly, if some strange man walked up to me and began speaking in the same manner he'd probably get slapped too. What should I smile and walk away? Call him some names?


I'm not judging her character, I was judging her actions in response to a provocation made against her. The way she chose to deal with this provocation was very wrong IMO. Mainly because of the dangerous situation she put herself in by doing so. You don't respond to a verbal statement with violence, it is not the answer. Neither is going home, telling your family and getting them to beat this guy up.

How about saying to the guy "I find your comments offensive, please leave me alone." If that fails, ignore him. He wants the attention and probably wants you to get angry from his comments, don't give him the satisfaction.



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 05:01 AM
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Originally posted by learningtofly
If you want to live in a different country, adapt to their rules. Otherwise, do not live there.

How would middle eastern countries adapt to western rules? Answer: THEY WOULD NOT.

So, why should western countries adapt to their rules? Answer: THEY SHOULD NOT.

Because they are trying to overtake.

Wake up, western countries!



pretty much sums it up- don't want to be executed by China for smuggling drugs? The answer is

a) Do not travel to China

or

b) Do not travel to China with drugs



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 11:57 PM
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personally think this is a bs law. france is just asking for more problems.
talk about censoring. it sickening to see all the hateful anit islamic crap here at ats. people here are supposed to be able to see the big picture and outside the box.

yet many cant seem to see past their own hate and prejudice. let them ban christians from wearing crosses, and have a few christians blow up something, and they will be hailed as hero's fighting for their man jesus. its just sickening.

people forget history on a whim it seems. they wanna say islam is so bad. but forget all the horros and atrocities committed and still being committed by christians every day.

this world is a foul, hateful , racist, world. Insha-allah it ends soon



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 02:14 AM
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reply to post by Dark Ghost
 


I'm sorry but he deserved to get popped. You don't cross the line like that. He should be locked up as a pedophile.



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 02:27 AM
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Originally posted by DEEZNUTZ
reply to post by Dark Ghost
 


I'm sorry but he deserved to get popped. You don't cross the line like that. He should be locked up as a pedophile.


Umm are we on the same page here?


An adult male says to an adult female that he wishes he was the ice-cream she was eating...how is that pedaphilia? And do you really think violence is the right answer?

Maybe this is why we have so many problems these days; people want to bash each other up over stupid things instead of talking them over.

/face palm



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 02:33 AM
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Originally posted by jmacbeth
personally think this is a bs law. france is just asking for more problems.
talk about censoring. it sickening to see all the hateful anit islamic crap here at ats. people here are supposed to be able to see the big picture and outside the box.

yet many cant seem to see past their own hate and prejudice. let them ban christians from wearing crosses, and have a few christians blow up something, and they will be hailed as hero's fighting for their man jesus. its just sickening.

people forget history on a whim it seems. they wanna say islam is so bad. but forget all the horros and atrocities committed and still being committed by christians every day.


Believe it or not, but this law was made with the welfare of Muslims in mind. Muslims receive intolerant taunts from a minority of non-Muslims in the West. The burka has become a very recognisable piece of Islamic attire and thus those who wear one will draw attention from this minority. Think of it as taking a precaution to prevent disaster before it occurs.


this world is a foul, hateful , racist, world. Insha-allah it ends soon


What do you mean in that last sentence?



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 03:37 AM
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Originally posted by Occy Anonymous
reply to post by DEEZNUTZ
 


[*SNIP*] How can you say something like that without first living in one of these countries and experiencing the atrocities first hand? Moving shouldn't mean giving up your heritage, people shouldn't assimilate just because others are afraid of change.


If it was so great, they wouldn't have to move, if the heritage was so awesome - there would nto be these atrocities you speak of.

No nation is perfect and all have hurt people at one time or another - but if you are leaving your country for a better life in another - then perhaps certain things in your country best stay there - dont like it, don't move.

[edit on 12-1-2010 by crisko]



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 03:38 AM
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Originally posted by jmacbeth
personally think this is a bs law. france is just asking for more problems.
talk about censoring. it sickening to see all the hateful anit islamic crap here at ats. people here are supposed to be able to see the big picture and outside the box.

yet many cant seem to see past their own hate and prejudice. let them ban christians from wearing crosses, and have a few christians blow up something, and they will be hailed as hero's fighting for their man jesus. its just sickening.

people forget history on a whim it seems. they wanna say islam is so bad. but forget all the horros and atrocities committed and still being committed by christians every day.

this world is a foul, hateful , racist, world. Insha-allah it ends soon




that is just relativist cowardice- you may have had a point with Christianity 500 years ago, but not now, we in the west have moved on considerably and should not have to timewarp several hundred years just to accomodate a few backward aholes.

As for your last sentence, what a pathetic thing to say, and your little "Insha-allah" reference says it all, islamogroupie



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 03:46 AM
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reply to post by Dark Ghost
 


Inshallah is a turkish word, it means lets hope or pray to god it has heaps of meanings.

As for the other guy below ya(sorry forget your name)

There heritage is something everyone should be proud of, its their present situation that isn't so good, but that's the greedy leaders fault, not their religions fault. People keep thinking the Middle east and Islam are the same thing. They're not. Weak leaders are using good peoples faith to keep them down. It is not the peoples fault, there was a time a long while ago that, that area was alot more peaceful, advanced and beautiful then anywhere else thanks to their religion. This is why those people sstill hoold their heritage, in hopes of those times again.

PS.(blueorder) You said Islamagroupie like it is a bad thing. How so? I'm not Muslim but still believe you should respect any religion.

PPS. Yes Christianity has advanced from it's sometimes brutal past, but Islam is newer then Christianity they are just going through the same thing Christianity did at their age. Corruption of it's leaders.

[edit on 12-1-2010 by Occy Anonymous]



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 03:59 AM
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It's no wonder why Sarkozy applied this rule...he learned it from his wife





This is how he wants to views all women in France to be. Nothing wrong with that if a female wants to do it out of her choice but he is opposed to women who don't want to do these kind of things.

[edit on 12-1-2010 by December_Rain]

[edit on 12-1-2010 by December_Rain]



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 04:14 AM
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Originally posted by Occy Anonymous
reply to post by DEEZNUTZ
 


[*SNIP*] How can you say something like that without first living in one of these countries and experiencing the atrocities first hand? Moving shouldn't mean giving up your heritage, people shouldn't assimilate just because others are afraid of change. We need more diversity, not for everyone to be a blank generic clone of one nation.

 


Mod Note: Courtesy is Mandatory – Please Review Link.

[edit on 1/8/2010 by AshleyD]


I have to disagree on that one. Diversity isn't the great and wonderful thing it's touted to be. These days, diversity is used as an excuse for people refusing to become a part of a country they CHOOSE to come live in, and trying to force said country to the ways of their old one. My opinion is, if they liked those ways so much, why move? In general, people need to be a part of the country they choose to enter. While some cultural identity is fine, immigrants do not have the right to try and force their old culture on that of their new country. In many cases, people will come to the States, and then pledge loyalty to the OLD country. That is, IMO< a clear sign that they do NOT want, or deserve, citizenship.

In this case, wearing a covering on the face is far too big a security issue to be allowed. Plus, since it's often a case of women being forced to do so, France is correct in making this decision. Wow....I actually defended France....what is the world coming to?



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 04:19 AM
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Originally posted by Occy Anonymous
reply to post by Mr Headshot
 


So your saying that muslims should all live in muslim countries, and not be allowed out????


No, they are saying that if these people want Muslim laws, they should stay in places that welcome those laws. In free countries, people don't tie the laws to their religion.



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 04:25 AM
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reply to post by seattletruth
 


People are not fascists for wanting to preserve their own culture, and defend it being erased by tons of immigrants that refuse to conform. You would no doubt be up in arms if some group of westerners went to some Middle Eastern country and started demanding that things were changed to suit them. Yet you seem to have no issues attacking people in western countries for giving value to their own ideas, beliefs, and culture. If you don't like the ways of the west, don't live in the west. It's not complicated.



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 04:26 AM
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Originally posted by Mr Headshot
reply to post by Occy Anonymous
 


No, I'm not at all. I'm saying that they allowed the settlers to have their own culture and were promptly slaughtered. They tried to share their culture, they were innocent. We don't have an innocent world, it's survival of the fittest here.

It's a bad BAD deal the indians were killed, and not their fault. They didn't think like the western world, they had no reason to. I'm an Indian, Comanche to be exact. Read my post and think about what I'm saying.


The indians let the white man come over and have his way, the white man took over and got rid of the indians. That, my friend, is diversity at work.


Excellent point. Funny that the same people who would attack the white settlers for their actions want to defend similar actions by immigrants today. The irony there is astounding.



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 04:34 AM
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Originally posted by seattletruth
reply to post by unicorn1
 


The culture isn't hell bent on expansion. They're "hell bent" on living their lives. The TV is "hell bent" on serving you up this propaganda to make you believe that your country is "under attack".

And I don't call you a "fascist" because its some catchphrase to call you. I am calling you a fascist because you fit the TRUE DEFINITION OF THE WORD.

Fascism - definition

A totalitarian philosophy of government that glorifies the state and nation and assigns to the state control over every aspect of national life. The name was first used by the party started by Benito Mussolini , who ruled Italy from 1922 until the Italian defeat in World War II. However, it has also been applied to similar ideologies in other countries, e.g., to National Socialism in Germany and to the regime of Francisco Franco in Spain.

You sir, are a true neo-fascist. It's really sad that you are so blinded by the propaganda to realize what you've become.


Actually, you are mistaken. All the time, we see news stories on how this immigrant culture or that one are trying to get laws passed giving special attention to some want or the other of theirs. Remodeled public restrooms, changes in classroom schedules, classes in different languages; the lists go on and on. Denying these facts and calling them propaganda won't change them.

Plus, it isn't fascist to state that these women in France should not be forced to cover their faces, or that such a covering can pose a security risk. In today's dangerous world, such laws are only sensible. Here in the US, some were trying to pass a law that would allow a driver's license picture with a face veil. Now you tell me, what good is an ID card when you cannot ID the person in the picture?

Most of the people whose opinions I agree with are far from fascists. We want very little government involvement in our lives, and believe the sole purpose of government is to handle affairs that affect the entire group, that cannot be handled on a local level, and for national defense. Certainly NOT for some glory for the country as a whole.

BTW, I like your signature. A lot of truth in that.



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 04:36 AM
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reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
 


But this is clearly an anti-religious law. We all bag out on certain Islamic countries for their anti-Christian laws, but gladly aprove when France does the same thing? This is just purely revenge motivated and to incite even more negative feelings towards Muslims. Especially considering their is a good chance of some fanatic retaliating.

You can't just single one religion out because of a few bad eggs. Why not just put every catholic priest on the sex offenders list? As for a security issue, I really don't see how this is a security issue at all.

Yes some are forced, SOME. But forcing them ALL to not wear one is even worse. You are asking them to choose between their faith and a better quality of life.

This law is basically Fining people for being of a different religious faith. Yes they can move, but the majority of strict Muslims who believe in the burkah are not that well off financially. Moving to another country will financially cripple them. Their main choice will be moving back to their homes. It should be clear these laws were not placed to protect women. Think about what will happen to them if they walk around without their burkahs. In these strict households the man rules, the French government is basically saying either get out my country or pay up.

The law should be for greater protection for women who are victims of abuse.



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 04:37 AM
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Originally posted by rapunzel222

Originally posted by heyo
I smell the feminist movement. They've also recently made insults illegal in marriage. It irks them no end to see women subjugated, and are adamant in their solipsism.
That being said, it's no one's business what the french do except the french. Take Quebec for example. They are aggressive in maintaing their culture and have succeeded in doing so because of it.


the reason for the feminist movement is that generations of women finally got sick of being abused by men. Learn some history before posting ignorant comments..


So instead we have a generation that sees no issues with insulting and demeaning the men? That isn't an improvement. Now, on this issue, I do support that these women should not be forced to cover their faces. Such a thing is demeaning. However, the observation that the feminist movement could be involved isn't a bad one.



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 04:41 AM
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Originally posted by seattletruth

Originally posted by rapunzel222
Good. burkas are used in the oppression of women and are a BAD symbol against womens rights. they SHOULD be banned, until all women have a genuine CHOICE as to whether they want to wear it or not.

if there's no choice, its oppression and needs to stop.



WTF? You make no sense. You say that we should give them a CHOICE, but say that they should be banned? How is that giving somebody a choice to wear them? Oh wait, they should only have the choice if it happens to agree with your fascist viewpoint.

You said that forcing them to wear it is oppression, but forcing them NOT to wear them ISN'T oppression?

Your logic fails on many counts.


There you are correct, to a point. In this case, I think the security issues are the main ones. Here in the States, the police tend to watch out for people wearing gang colors, because they know people wearing them can and frequently do cause trouble.

People, male or female, walking around masked or veiled, just isn't a good idea.



posted on Jan, 12 2010 @ 04:55 AM
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Originally posted by Occy Anonymous


Are you saying Christian doctrine doesn't do the same to women? Name me one religion that does promote homosexuality.

good to know.lol.

Both sides in Israel are at fault, they are both ignorant of each other and stuck in a loop.

NO! it is not the majority at all, people only take notice of the bad ones, the media only reports on the bad ones so people assume that is the majority. The majority are good people who you wouldn't even notice in everyday life. They just want to live their lives free of prejudice and give their children a chance they never had.

Yes actually all those definitions matched it: 1. by supporting Frances law, you are stating that one race is superior and has power over the other. 2. Not you personally, but the bulk of western countries governments are discriminatory of middle easterns even if they don't admit it: when was the last time you saw a pro-muslim story on the news? 3. By not giving the women a chance to decide whether or not to wear a burka you are being intolerant to their beliefs.

It is easy to pull the race card, however when one makes such strong statements as you own it's alot easier.


I will tell you flat out, as a Christian woman, that the Christian culture does no such thing.

Supporting a law passed in France does not make one a racist. French isn't a race, but a nationality. Muslim also isn't a race, but a culture/religion/legal system. You dodged the issue of gays being killed in Muslim countries. Are you tolerant to their belief that this is a good thing to do?

Besides which, these women do not generally have a choice as to whether to wear a burka or not. The idea is so ingrained int he culture that they are afraid to challenge it, or even convinced that it's a good thing, to be treated as though they are nothing but a piece of meat. to be covered up or abused for not doing so.

Be careful what you defend.



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