Jackson Health System halts dialysis for poor patients

reply to post by Stormdancer777

Obama Nazi Health-Care Plan Revolves Around Hastings, Agency of the British Crown's Eugenics Movement

You sure have done a lot of reasearch on the subject Stormdancer and made a tremendous amount of excellent contributions to the thread.

I really appreciate it.

Nazi like certainly is the size of it.

Thanks.

Well now we know where those that can not afford health care will go with the Obamacare, they will still be given medical care but will be move to the bottom of the food chain.

The health care bill has nothing to do with providing care for the poor or needy but to target those that can be gouged, monitored and keep track off with forced private insurance.

Originally posted by marg6043
Well now we know where those that can not afford health care will go with the Obamacare, they will still be given medical care but will be move to the bottom of the food chain.

The health care bill has nothing to do with providing care for the poor or needy but to target those that can be gouged, monitored and keep track off with forced private insurance.

Sadly that is about the size of it marg6043, it simply doesn't pay to be poor in this world. Especially poor and sick.

The sad part is its often the poorest voters who are too harried trying to survive that fall for the lies of politicians like Obama and really imagine he is going to help them in exchange for their votes and support.

Instead they get sent to the glue factory, what a world!

Thanks for posting.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Here in the south in my neck of the woods is still people that truly believe they are going to get free health care with Obama care, sometimes I feel very sorry for the believers.

My grandfather had kidney failure. He was too weak for dialysis though. He was in so much pain from his kidneys failing that they had to put him on morphine, and it still didn't rid him completely of the pain. It just eased it somewhat. It's an awful, slow painful way to die.

reply to post by Jessicamsa


I am sorry to hear that Jessica that's always the hardest when someone you love and care for has to suffer like that.

It's hard to believe we would intentionally do that when in fact we do have an abundence of resources and could treat anyone and everyone if we actually cared too.

We can spend so much money on weapons and war and death, and then be so neglectful of the people themselves.

I hope your grandfather is in much better place than we seem to be.

Thanks for posting and sharing.

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Here in the south in my neck of the woods is still people that truly believe they are going to get free health care with Obama care, sometimes I feel very sorry for the believers.

The truth is a lot of my black clients and even some of my white and hispanic ones are still clinging to hope and will say things like, well it's getting better the stock market is picking up.

I look at them and scratch my head and say...well do you have any money invested in the stock market (I know they don't) and they laugh and say no, but it will trickle down to us soon right?

Most of them are so busy just trying to earn a few dollars and to survive from day to day that they don't have much of a real clue about what's really going on in Washington, Wall Street and the World.

WWW the world wide web...to bad we are all stuck in it!

reply to post by whitewave


well the healthcare plan hasn't gone into effect but yes this is the type of thing to expect. i know i am a goner under this plan. need too much to stay alive and contribute nothing. as has been pointed out to me by people all the time. especially in hard times like these. easy to get rid of.

as for earlier condition of this post- i apologize. i passed out while typing, before i could laboriously correct the mistakes. but- to those who say that since i can participate here, i could certainly work... shows that i have serious issues with even typing simple paragraphs using onscreen keyboard...

[edit on 8-1-2010 by ExParrot]

its very sad i agree i say treat all the patients but when it comes time to pay bill if they are illegal then bill their homeland be it mexico or cuba or whereever .

Originally posted by OhZone

Doing some kind of work up to be allowed to have children is a must.
Humans have over 4000 heritable defects. We should concentrate on eliminating the worst and most obvious of them.

Congenitally defective babies should be euthanized at birth. It is cruel to let them live or to do many surgeries so that they would live mizerable lives, taking up valuable rescources that could be better used elsewhere.
[also:]
Take care of yourself and you won't have to worry about the broken Sickness Care System.

one of my best Friends here has severe cerebral palsy, was abandoned by parents, adopted at age 3 by current family. he needs very much care, and cannot speak. however- he communicates using a letter-board and can type fairly ok on puter.
he is one of the wittiest sharpest funniest sweetest most caring people i know and he makes the lives of those around him richer and he has a great sense of justice and very politically active online. i know he has enriched his parents' and sisters' and their families' lives immensely. as have my own adopted cousins who are native american (i have ties to same tribe) and have fetal alcohol syndrome and active in special olympics.

as for second quote- i am, glad you have not had anything accidental happen to you, or been assaulted serioulsy. i guess i should have had a psychic dr do my star chart at birth and see that i would be injured and paralyzed by such things, then euthanized., so as not to have to worry about obamacare or burden the economy.


[edit on 8-1-2010 by ExParrot]

Originally posted by OhZone


Congenitally defective babies should be euthanize at birth. It is cruel to let them live or to do many surgeries so that they would live miserable lives, taking up valuable resources that could be better used elsewhere.

Can I be sick now?

Who in the name of anything anyone believes in to decide which babies should live and which ones should die... Where do you draw the line? Is it going to be something like Germany where mentally ill, because they drain resources get euthanize to save a dollar?

I am so glad you don't run the health care system... there would be so many lost opportunities and so many lost prodigies because of your sweeping generalizations.

I could say alot more than I am gonna.....guess it would be a little too offensive.

but, well, how many of those charitable rich families and organizations were ripped off by the shady wall street players? I know maddolf or whoever hit quite a few...and the whole wall street crash reeks of shadiness!

obamacare isn't even in effect yet, and well, I think many of the well to do were more affected by the wall street crash than they were of some stupid tax laws being changed....after all, they are rich and have good tax accountants and off shore accounts!
want to blame something, look at washington with their odd priorities when it comes to spending and look at wall street who were peddling peices of paper that they knew were gonna become next to worthless for a quick buck!

now, as far as me not saying what I was gonna say....
well, decided I was....

there's alot of taxpayers out there, helping these people get their dialysis through their taxes....and well, if they needed something this costly to keep on living, they'd run of the risk of being denied the care...
so, I guess all these poor people are more "worthy" of life than these taxpayers are???

people are denied healthcare all the time, there is already rationing going on! only, gee, we can't have the "poor" the "elderly" rationed out! na, not when we can shift that over to a more ambiguous, less indentifiable group!!
and besides!! we can create more poor to take into our system by turning productive citizens into non productive sick people!! and we can make alot of money doing it if we invest right in the markets!!!

you know, where are all the big company sponsorships when it comes to something like this?


its all a tax write off for them, so why cant the big pharma or big med ancillary corps pitch in for these folks?

TIDE brags about how "we helped clean up the poor folks too" in their sad commercials. But the commercial wasn't about showing they helped poor folks, it was about garishing the public's sympathy and approval to bolster product sales.

guess its the same here, perhaps a persian rug manufacturer should step up and advertise how they provided the rug this will get swept under....

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


This brings back a friend of my husband that is feeling the pinch with the housing market as he is a contractor.

When he said the markets are doing better I look at him (I was been just polite while he was greeting my husband and I was quite quiet) and said to him "is not doing better, is not jobs, without jobs is not spending and without spending is not economic stimulus, the markets are doing only good for those on the top while the domino effect of stagnation is ripping the nation apart".

This man just woke up and he just forgot about my husband went into discussion with me that lasted one hour until my husband got tired of it, he was just been polite and following the main stream sentiment while knowing all alone that our nation economy is down the crapper.

To tell you the truth he was so happy to find somebody that could talk without restriction about the politics of our economy so call "recovery scam".

I am glad I was well informed and was able to share with somebody else.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by drwizardphd

 

Actually there are a few different factors involved here that I tried to illustrate in my opening post.

Charitible contributions are no longer allowed as write offs and that's hurting the funding of public health trusts like Jacksons.

The economic crisis and real estate crisis is causing budget short falls from dwindling real estate tax revenues.

The public health trusts can politically afford to make drastic cuts like this to apply pressure in the political debate to urge health care reform, which is after all in their ultimate interests since it just means more government money coming down the pike to them.

But as I displayed in my opening piece what government funding will cover and what charitible funding will cover are two different things and the charitible funding allows for more people outisde of the system to be cared for than the government does.

Lots of things involved here friend, lots and lots.

Thanks for posting.

Proto,

This is really a terrible situation for these people. What this tells us is that the private sector can get things done better than any government agency could. This is a sign of things to come. Health care rationing is on the way.

We are going from a system where the private sector with charitable dontations were able to take care of these people to government interference where they are being turned away for political purposes.

Illegal immigrants or not, we should have a sense of humanity and not allow people to suffer. When government gets involved with health care, decisions will be made based on politics instead of being humane to our fellow man.

This is what people don't seem to understand. People are being taken care of without big brother goverment getting involved. They are fooling themselves if they think health care will improve with the government running the show. They can't run anything without screwing it up.



[edit on 1/8/2010 by Erasurehead]

So sorry citizens are being affected again by illegal aliens

I'm gonna get yelled at but if we didn't have to support the illegal's in the first place, this wouldn't have happened.

I read here that they don't qualify unless they've been here 5 years!! What tha?! Why were they allowed to Stay, much less recieve free treatment!!??

I'm sorry they are sick but when my daughter was in Europe recently and hurt her knee it was cash up front or no treatment because she was not a citizen; as it should be.

Originally posted by AmericanDaughter
So sorry citizens are being affected again by illegal aliens

I'm gonna get yelled at but if we didn't have to support the illegal's in the first place, this wouldn't have happened.

I read here that they don't qualify unless they've been here 5 years!! What tha?! Why were they allowed to Stay, much less recieve free treatment!!??

I'm sorry they are sick but when my daughter was in Europe recently and hurt her knee it was cash up front or no treatment because she was not a citizen; as it should be.

We as a country for years have allowed these illegals to come into the country all in the name of having some cheap labor. Nobody was complaining about the nice cheap produce you can get at the grocery store thanks to the low wages they are paid to pick the crops. So when they are in need are we supposed to treat them like animals or should we find some humanity in our hearts to help them out.

I agree that illegal immigration is a problem that needs to be addressed, they should not be here in the first place. But we allowed this to go on for so long and they are people too and we should show some compassion to our fellow man. Should they simply be made to suffer because of their immigration status?

They were getting the money for their treatment from charitable donations not from the tax payer. I see nothing wrong with private citizens helping out their fellow man illegal immigrant or not.

reply to post by AmericanDaughter

I'm sorry they are sick but when my daughter was in Europe recently and hurt her knee it was cash up front or no treatment because she was not a citizen; as it should be.

Well maybe, maybe not. My landlord is a Cuban/American he was born in Cuba but was in the first wave of immigrants out of the Island right after Castro came to power.

He’s in is early 70’s not (though he looks like he is in his 50’s) and after having rented from him for 10 years we consider each other to be family. He’s done well for himself here in the United States but like a lot of people is now having a much harder time of it since the economy went south.

He has a few problems with his blood pressure and heart. He’s a Veteran of the U.S. Army but doesn’t use the VA for his medical care but a private insurer. He remarks from time to time how high the bills are for the insurers when he just makes a simple emergency room visit when his blood pressure gets out of control. $1,500, 2,500 dollars sometimes more for 6 hours in the emergency room a few tests and a few pills.

About a year ago he was visiting some relatives in Cuba in rural Cuba no less and his blood pressure shot up. He was worried because it’s legal for Americans to visit Cuba but it’s illegal to spend U.S. Dollars there or convert U.S. Dollars there to be spent. (crazy law, but part of the embargo against the Island that’s been in effect since the 50’s).

He wasn’t sure of course if his poor Cuban relatives could afford to pay for a trip to the hospital for him to get medical care. They laughed at him and said the hospital? They picked up the phone and within an hour a government doctor was there, and within an hour after that he was back again with medication to get his blood pressure back down. The doctor returned three more times over the course of his two week stay to check up on him, follow up on him, and bring additional medication. He asked his hosts how much that cost and the laughed and said NOTHING!

Funny Cuba is one of the poorest countries in the hemisphere in part because of the Embargos against it for 50 years but they actually do give their citizens as quality of medical care as they can afford. In fact Cuba educates more doctors per capita than any other nation on earth, and actually export them and their services to poor third world nations throughout Africa and South America in exchange for hard cash or materials.

reply to post by Erasurehead

This is really a terrible situation for these people. What this tells us is that the private sector can get things done better than any government agency could. This is a sign of things to come. Health care rationing is on the way.

You are so right my friend. The sad truth is that between the government and the insurance industries medicine is not really a free market commodity and that in large part is why it’s so expensive.

Instead of supply and demand regulating a free market in medicine and helping to set reasonable costs through that what we have is artificially high costs because the government will pay 1,200.00 for a toilet seat, and the insurance companies simply do more or less the same by taking pooled money they have already invested for a profit in other markets and then paying more or less what ever the bill is that is presented.

The supply is ample; there are plenty of doctors, labs, pharmacies, surgeons, nurses, hospital beds and clinics. There is lots of diagnostic equipment and rehab and therapy facilities too. There is no shortage of supply. There is really no shortage of demand except that prices are drastically inflated because the two entities that are most likely to pay ultimately for the medical services are deep pocket government agencies and deep pocket insurance companies.

How inflated are the costs? I don’t carry insurance but maintain a reasonable savings account for medical emergency. I always tell the doctor or care provider I am paying cash and not using insurance. This usually results in discounts off of their services between a bare minimum of 25% to 60%. Believe it or not just the cost of medical billing to the insurance companies and the government is a significant one for most doctors, dentists and hospitals who have to hire specialty personnel just to send out the invoices and track the payments and deal with the trouble cases where submissions get lost or misread or not paid. That alone adds significantly to the cost of medicine.

If there were no insurance companies and the government wasn’t an insurer of last or primary resort and doctors had to rely on people like me paying cash, they couldn’t charge anywhere near as much, but they would still be in business and the care would likely be just as good.

Socializing medicine further is really just going to continue to drive up the costs as lobbyists with deep pockets negotiate what the acceptable fees are going to be that the health industry and the pharmaceutical industry can charge.

Health care in private hands has been working for the most part, even for the poor even for illegal immigrants up until now as the landscape is changing. Sadly a lot of people are going to suffer for that, and likely eventually we all will, because if there is one thing our bureaucracy proves time and time again is it’s capable of screwing up anything it touches and takes control of.

Thanks for posting my friend, I really appreciate it.

reply to post by marg6043

To tell you the truth he was so happy to find somebody that could talk without restriction about the politics of our economy so call "recovery scam".

I am glad I was well informed and was able to share with somebody else.

You know it’s both sad and funny how misled and clueless so many people really are when it comes to the true state of the world around them and how unquestioning too.

I am pretty fortunate in a way because my clients in my business rely on me for all forms of practical advice on a broad range of things. They really respect my expertise and opinion in my field and often look to me for advice on non business related things. So I get to share quite a bit with a number of them regarding what I feel is going on in the world and my world view.

From time to time I will sit some of them down in front of my computer monitor and play them some of the videos that are out there on things like HARRP, and the Codex Alimentarius, the Bilderbergers, 9-11, the War on Terror etc., etc., and it really is something to see their reactions.

I have black clients who are sometimes so shaken and disturbed by what I show them they leave my office white as ghosts afterwards. I have had people literally walk into the closed door and then have to renter three more times to retrieve the keys they left, then the wallet they left, then the cigarettes they left from the shocked state some presentations have left them in.

Yes, waking people up can be a sadist’s delight! But I try to when and where ever possible share what I know, of course there are some friends and people who avoid me like the plague to avoid that. It’s not that they don’t believe but they just want to be that happy go lucky person anyway and remind me and themselves that there is nothing they can really do about the state of the world.

Yet there is every chance in time aware people will reach a critical mass and start changing the world for the better so I take the time to share when ever I can.

Recently I was out on my bicycle well into the evening and got a flat tire and pushed it into a bike shop that’s open pretty late. The owner is hungry for business so he burns the midnight oil.

He started talking about the economy and then world events and right on down the line he espoused the official version of things from the economy, to the bailouts, to the Middle East, Israel, the War on Terror etc., etc.

At one point it got so bad I almost found I was backing towards the door, it was like he was a crazed brainwashed nut that was running on automated pilot! I kept having to remind myself, this is how most people are, this is how most people are, but I have to tell you how most people are is really SCARY!

Thanks for posting.