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Right Wing Reverse Psychology Blame Game - The Left is always Responsible For All Bad Things Past Pr

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posted on Jan, 7 2010 @ 04:07 PM
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Welcome Everyone.

This is a very straight forward thread.

Specifically, it's about deception, delusion, lies, revisionism, and hypocrisy on the part of proponents of right wing ideology.

When I go on threads where the topic has to do with Politics, I have noticed a trend. Posters representing the right, seek to blame the Left for everything, and anything that has ever happened, or they fear could happen.

There is only one Dimension.

Terrorism, is the responsibility of the Left. The Left is not Hawkish enough. To the Right, being sanguinary is somehow a core American value. We're already in several wars, but it's not enough. They want more wars, right now.

The Right is also attempting to sweet talk us into segregation, as the solution to America's problems. It's as if the Right actually believes the people to be so gullible, that they will believe their moans and bellows, that the left is taking away our freedoms, and our way of life has been stolen by aliens, and other undesirables.

Patriotic chest puffing, and tag lines, are everywhere you look. But when you talk to these people, what you hear is a litany of lies, deception, revisionism, hate, and fear.

Xenophobia is one of the big ones. Close, and militarize the borders!

Throw the Illegals in jail, better yet, give them 6 months to liquidate their assets, and leave, or even better, make them indentured laborers not subject to minimum wage laws.

They are already indentured labor not getting minimum wage.

Stop Immigration, only allow it for employment. Nationalize the banks, ratify the original 13th amendment, and make gun ownership compulsory.

Impose new voting requirements, and, propagandize compulsory political education. Grant powers to ban any religion the ruling party desires.

States to impose embargoes on other states, un corporation of corporations, confiscation of publicly owned assets(stocks), "canceling" the National debt.

Downplaying, and then leaving the U.N., confiscation of American assets outside of the US, leave NATO, legislate a compulsory National language, declare the USA a Christian Nation, expand the State Militias, grant Presidential powers to governors, eliminate the Police, charge exorbitant fees to Nations where we go and fight, or make them indentured to the USA if we liberate them, occupy, or defeat them.

Segregate States according to "????" you pick. The freedom loving Right has a strange interpretation of what "liberty" is.

This right wing Utopia sounds like a Soviet Union where nobody sees tyranny, or oppression. America is an armed, isolated fortress where every Citizen is a Soldier, and every, Color, Creed, National origin, and Ideology, is boxed into first States, then Cities, Towns, Districts, etc..

All happily coexisting separate, but equal in their homogenized America.

Sounds familiar.

All the Gays in California? Where are Blacks going to live? Hispanics, Asians, THE JEWS, ARABS! How about a Black Gay Jew, or a mixed race couple with different Religions, and Political ideologies?

All of this in the name of The Constitution, under the guise of taking back our Country from the evil Left, and putting the rest of the world in proper context with the supreme Rulers of the Earth.

The United Conservative Socialist Segregated Christian Oppressive Isolationist Intolerant Military States Representative Republic Dictatorship of America.

Harmoniously presided over, by 50 Kings with Militias, a Paper Tiger President, and a castrated Central Government, comprised of 50 intolerant, solipsistic, paranoid, xenophobic States.

If the world doesn't like it, we have Nukes, Subs, Missiles, and the strongest standing army on the planet. No sweat! We're FREE! we answer to none, and nuke any that disagree.

Aside from the obvious, what confounds me, is how we accomplish this?

A Revolution? That's what's being stoked.

Adjunct to the blame game, there is no unity. Tea party says this, Conservatives say that, Libertarians want this, Birthers want proof, Nazis want to rewrite History, Patriots want a Revolt, bigots want isolation, Fundamentalists want Religion and Dogma posted everywhere including schools. Strong bonds?

To boot, nobody wants to pay taxes! Where is the money for all this?

They are all different sure enough, you can't put them in a box, they want 50 boxes divided into districts based on subjective criteria, mandated by each State, and enforced by each Governor/King in accordance with his/their Ideology.

Rationalization by fantasy also appears to be a in fashion.

They argue that the problem is the GOV is intrusive, and compromises their freedom. The solution is Freedom by fantasy.

"If they would just leave the people to make their own decisions about everything, well then we would all be Safe, Happy, and Wealthy."

That is presented as the solution to what ails us. People say we don't learn from History, I disagree, the Right seems to have learned from History.

The new right, wants a Frankenstein like nation created from fragments of oppressive, and failed state ideologies.

Combine, the USSR, Nazi Germany, Communist China, add some fake Patriotism, a measure of Religious Zealotry, a quart of greed, some bigotry, some racism, wrap it all up in the American flag, and there we have it,.

Neo Conservative AmeriKKKa.

I'm not a political junkie, or part of a movement, but here on ATS, the ideologically charged atmosphere got my attention. I read, and posted for a while feeling like it was over the top, but that's Ideology.

But is it? or is it Madness?

Given the actual facts of History, not the made up ones, I want to know how it is the Liberal Left can be the cause of everything that has ever happened since before the Declaration of Independence.

How is it? that the Left is painted as an all encompassing repository of blame.

The Right is not responsible for anything at all, ever. The right was for freedom, equal rights, Peace, against slavery, against elitism, against Hitler, Mao, The Spanish Inquisition, The Pogroms, the decimation of Native Americans, (but it didn't happen), against all bad things. The left of course is responsible for all things evil. Iraq, Afghanistan, Terrorism, WWI, WWII, 9/11, Gitmo, anything you can think of.

Do you think this is just what happens on the Internet, or are there a large number of people out in the real world that actually buy into this bull crap?

I don't buy any of it at all. What do you think?

Ziggy Strange

[edit on 7-1-2010 by ziggystrange]




posted on Jan, 7 2010 @ 06:05 PM
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Imagine the two sides like they are children. Think of them 2 brothers, or 2 sisters, whatever. Mom comes along and sees something is wrong.

"Who did this?"
"It's him mommy!"
"No! He started it!"
"No, he did it first!"

BLAH
BLAH
BLAH

You see the correlation here... Dissociation and blame is the best way to keep people from taking responsibility for their actions and therefore they get away with anything they want, because it's always the other guy's fault. In the end, it is my opinion that the two sides work together, and help each other very efficiently, at obtaining whatever sinister common goal they have.

Feel free to correct me if my view is blurred in any way...

Peace

Magnum



posted on Jan, 7 2010 @ 06:11 PM
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Both sides do the same thing.
I don't see how the right is unique in their partisan rhetoric.



posted on Jan, 7 2010 @ 06:46 PM
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Ziggy-

It is good to see you again. You have invited a whole new pissing match that will not bring discussion, just pure emotional, knee-jerk reactionaries to the table. Some will offer their insights into the things you have clumped together. Others will show you how the Right is to be blamed for a lot. Just as the Left is to be blamed.

Better yet, politicians of both sides are to be blamed. I believe there is a true division of ideology but you have presented the extremes and also the personal thoughts of some and packaged them as being the whole. When they are not.

I enjoy a devil's advocate any day of the week, but one that has purpose.

-What is the purpose of this thread?

-Are you trying to understand where the "Right" is coming from?

-Are you trying to affirm your beliefs that those on the "Right" are just deceitful beings out to box all those they do not like up and ship them out?

-Do you want rebuttal? If so, are you going to accept the rebuttal or just continue to claim that what is said is not true because of the few posts you have witnessed here say otherwise?

I understand you do not dabble in politics, but if you are trying to gain a better understanding of politics, this is not the place. Here you have the fringe, mixed in with the more center-right/left populace. The fringe will always speak louder as their ideas and thoughts will be out of tune to the rest.

I am with you as I have seen these fringes, from both sides of the aisle.

As the simple answer I can offer this:

The right retains just as much blame as the left on the vast majority of policies that have undergone this country.

Some of the policies that have been created by the 'right', I find contradictory to their principles. Some of their top issues that they insist they must have, I find idiotic and just a crutch.

Same with the 'left'. Take the above paragraph and replace 'right' with 'left'.



posted on Jan, 7 2010 @ 07:43 PM
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Originally posted by Magnum007
Imagine the two sides like they are children. Think of them 2 brothers, or 2 sisters, whatever. Mom comes along and sees something is wrong.

"Who did this?"
"It's him mommy!"
"No! He started it!"
"No, he did it first!"

BLAH
BLAH
BLAH

Magnum


Thank you for posting.

Agreed people act like children when they debate.
My point is what I have noticed here.

The current administration has plenty of flaws, issues for the right to work against, The question is why the tactic from the right, is to accuse the administration of things that don't exist. Like Death Panels, and things they are not responsible for, like the bailout.

Why not concentrate on the truth.
What is wrong with reality?

Peace
Ziggy



posted on Jan, 7 2010 @ 07:50 PM
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Originally posted by heyo
Both sides do the same thing.
I don't see how the right is unique in their partisan rhetoric.


Thanks for posting.

Partisan rhetoric is one thing, irrational lies, and accusations are another.

I don't see posts from the left that are science fiction, like I see on the right.
All national outrage is manufactured and aimed at the wrong target, just like attacking Iraq.

It's what I'm going to try to point out here.

Just adding the word partisan does not make a wrong right, or a lie true.

Ziggy



posted on Jan, 7 2010 @ 07:52 PM
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Originally posted by ziggystrange

Why not concentrate on the truth.
What is wrong with reality?




Well, the truth isn't really interesting enough, and reality doesn't get people as fired up. Right wing pundits especially like to prey on the fears of their base, so you find a lot of that sort of rhetoric coming from that side of the fence.

However, the sensationalism is by no means limited to the right. They have just been a lot more vocal and pissed off since their side didn't win the last election. Thus you get Glenn Beck preaching the downfall of society and shedding fake tears, you have O'Reilley and Hannity longing for their long-lost traditional values, you get Death Panels and "EVIL SOCIALISM" and all the other nonsense. It's a reactionary response to a political failure.

When the pendulum swings in a few years the Left will be doing the same thing.



posted on Jan, 7 2010 @ 08:00 PM
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reply to post by ziggystrange
 


I will concentrate my answer to just a few possible reasons. I may be wrong, but I think it's a start.

1. There is no contesting the fact that the Government of the U.S.A. is run (not entirely but close to it) by big companies who lobby the officials (I.E. for bail out money, for legislation that makes some businesses richer than others, etc...)

2. If you admit the truth, you are liable to the wrath of judicial scrutiny and prosecution (I.E. reasons why nobody comments on things before the court issues are over).

3. The truth is just too costly to handle on the PR scale of things and we all know that politics, as in show business, is all about how the person is perceived (I.E. Having an affair? You must resign. Don't follow your party's vote schedule/agenda? You must resign. etc... etc... etc...)

Now for the answer to your question about why the right is blaming the left for various things:

It's a tactic for people who don't have anything to offer more. It's called projection. What this means is basically when you don't have any arguments to defend your position, then you attack the other (just like the Mom and kids example I gave before). It's common among people who struggle for power to use this tactic in an attempt to discredit the opponent so that either their position seems better, or to hide something worse on their side.

Unfortunately my fellow truth seeker, we may never know the real reasons behind this tactic. I can tell you for sure, though, that it is used by both sides to distract the public, and to shift the focus of an issue on the other side.

It's sad, but it's politics. Too bad we can't just all be human and accept our mistakes, correct and learn from them, and then just move on.

Magnum



posted on Jan, 7 2010 @ 08:06 PM
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reply to post by ziggystrange
 


The tendency of the left to claim "racism" over every little thing is absolutely looney tunes.
Also, remember the anti-war protests that have magically disappeared since Obama took office?
I could go on all day about the hypocrisy of the left, the same way I could about the right's. They are no different. No side is above the other's bs.



posted on Jan, 7 2010 @ 08:42 PM
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Originally posted by ownbestenemy
Ziggy-

Q and A below



Good to see you too Ownbestenemy,

O - I enjoy a devil's advocate any day of the week, but one that has purpose.

Z - Me too but that's not what I'm doing, and I do have a purpose.

O - What is the purpose of this thread?

Z - To show what I'm saying is true to people, however few, that may be on the fence, and vulnerable to propaganda.

O - Are you trying to understand where the "Right" is coming from?

Z - No, I already do, I come from a right wing family, my Father was Military, and a Diplomat, good buddy of tricky Dick's. When Nixon got spat on in Venezuela, I caught a few lungies.

O - You have invited a whole new pissing match that will not bring discussion, just pure emotional, knee-jerk reactionaries to the table.

Z - You're here, I do not consider you a liar. I thought some of your input in the previous threads was constructive. Pissing contests happen all the time. But that's not the problem, It's the delusion and deliberate lying that bugs me.

O - Some will offer their insights into the things you have clumped together. Others will show you how the Right is to be blamed for a lot. Just as the Left is to be blamed.

Z - I didn't clump them together, I was clear in the OP that they are different, they have united themselves loosely. We'll see who gets blamed for what if people post.

O - -Are you trying to affirm your beliefs that those on the "Right" are just deceitful beings out to box all those they do not like up and ship them out?

Z - Not all just, most of the ones I have seen posting here here. I don;t believe "most" people are anywhere near as wired as the posters at ATS.

O - -Do you want rebuttal? If so, are you going to accept the rebuttal or just continue to claim that what is said is not true because of the few posts you have witnessed here say otherwise?

Z - Yes, I want rebuttal. But I won't accept BS. I don't get my reality from ATS. I know a lie when I see one. My perception of what's happening comes from living. What I see here contradicts what I experience every day.
I never knew until I came here, that there is no racism save for people that say there is, they are the only racists.

O - The right retains just as much blame as the left on the vast majority of policies that have undergone this country.

Z - That would be comforting to both sides if only it were true.

O - Some of the policies that have been created by the 'right', I find contradictory to their principles. Some of their top issues that they insist they must have, I find idiotic and just a crutch.

Z - I never said the right never created good policies. I agree. The right proclaims to want freedom, but they would take it from other people to feel comfortable.

O - Same with the 'left'. Take the above paragraph and replace 'right' with 'left'.

Z - No that's the problem,

O - I understand you do not dabble in politics, but if you are trying to gain a better understanding of politics, this is not the place. Here you have the fringe, mixed in with the more center-right/left populace. The fringe will always speak louder as their ideas and thoughts will be out of tune to the rest.

Z - I said it's not my primary occupation. I do understand it well enough to know right from wrong. I understand what you're saying about the predominance of hotheads, but is that not who usually stokes the fire?

O - Better yet, politicians of both sides are to be blamed. I believe there is a true division of ideology but you have presented the extremes and also the personal thoughts of some and packaged them as being the whole. When they are not.

Z - Here we have some agreement, Politicians pander. However the complete loss of "reason" I have seen from the pols the right since they lost the elections, is like nothing I have ever seen from the left in this country.
The left is guilty of being spineless, they should have used the majority to ram health care through faster.



posted on Jan, 7 2010 @ 08:47 PM
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The fact that you can't recognize that this is perpetrated by BOTH parties would be a strong indication that YOU are one of the partisans that further perpetrates the problem. Kapeesh!?



posted on Jan, 7 2010 @ 08:55 PM
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Originally posted by drwizardphd

Originally posted by ziggystrange

Why not concentrate on the truth.
What is wrong with reality?




Well, the truth isn't really interesting enough, and reality doesn't get people as fired up. Right wing pundits especially like to prey on the fears of their base, so you find a lot of that sort of rhetoric coming from that side of the fence.

However, the sensationalism is by no means limited to the right. They have just been a lot more vocal and pissed off since their side didn't win the last election. Thus you get Glenn Beck preaching the downfall of society and shedding fake tears, you have O'Reilley and Hannity longing for their long-lost traditional values, you get Death Panels and "EVIL SOCIALISM" and all the other nonsense. It's a reactionary response to a political failure.

When the pendulum swings in a few years the Left will be doing the same thing.


Hi Thanks for posting,

I agree with the obvious in your response. But when the pendulum swings, you won't see the blood thirsty spectacle you're witnessing now.

An extremist is the same left, or right. It's the number of people being duped that concerns me.

Ziggy



posted on Jan, 7 2010 @ 08:57 PM
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I love these left vs right crap
But I must jump in with a question.




The left is guilty of being spineless, they should have used the majority to ram health care through faster.


Now with all the wheeling and dealing within the Democratic party how do you think they would ever have been able to do it? They had to sweeten the deal in their own so called majority! Why? Now that should tell you a little something about what they were doing. In addition how many Democrats announced they wouldn't run for re-election? So how is this part of the "right-wing reverse psychology etc etc?

[edit on 7-1-2010 by hangedman13]



posted on Jan, 7 2010 @ 09:08 PM
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Originally posted by kozmo
The fact that you can't recognize that this is perpetrated by BOTH parties would be a strong indication that YOU are one of the partisans that further perpetrates the problem. Kapeesh!?


One side, protests, the other calls for blood.
One side tries to justify torture, the other tries to stop it.

I'm not spewing hate, or lies at you.

Kapeesh ? If you're going to try be cute in another language, look it up.

Your Avatar would indicate "you" are the last person who'll understand the difference between 2 diametrically opposed concepts like right and wrong.

Ziggy



posted on Jan, 7 2010 @ 09:12 PM
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As someone who identifies myself with the right, I do not blame the left. At one point in time the left defended the constitution tooth and nail, they believed in never sacraficing liberties for any government reason. Both parties are confused. I say vote third party, vote out incumbants, and for those that manage to still remain in congress need to start defending our constitution first and foremost. The constitution was written by the people and therefore all rights expressed within should be to the benefit of the people at all times.



posted on Jan, 7 2010 @ 09:14 PM
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A lot of my conservative leanings derive from Barry Goldwater. Sure, that will catch a lot of flack, but from all I have read, pros and cons of the man, he was a man of principle and did not let his party lines get in the way of his politics or thinking.

Take for instance when good ole Dick was in the midst of Watergate. President Nixon was looking to his allies, whom one of them was Mr. Goldwater. Goldwater didn't follow political allies that broke basic principles and tenets of what he believed. Nixon directly lied to him and that was it. It didn't matter that they were both Republican. That takes a lot of guts and we don't see that nowadays from our political leaders.

I truly believe we have degenerated into a political mud-slinging battle between the two. It is all they do. When one is in power, the other complains and tries to paint the picture with their own brush. When the tables turn, the other party picks up their brush and begins to paint their own picture.

You have listed a lot of the fringe right-wing ideas that a lot of conservatives and right-leaning people would not agree with.

There are though some I believe wouldn't be a bad idea or even something to consider. Consider the U.N. I do believe it is a good thing we are involved in a global community organization such as the U.N., but I also believe that they are over reaching in many areas, just as we are, as a Nation. In the other thread I stated an idea about getting out of the U.N. completely based solely on the nature of the U.N. is not respecting of sovereignty.

I can back this up that we should also get out of other countries and their sovereignty and reduce our military bases around the world to all but just our staunchest allies, mainly Japan and England (maybe Germany), if they so wish to have us remain there.

On many of the other issues, I shall present a case, but you have the upper-hand as you can just say I am the exception, not the rule. Your mind is made up that the whole of the Right is vicious and deceptive in the way it paints the Left. At the same time, totally disregarding that the very ideology you are protecting has done the same, over and over.

Here. Tell me this. When, not even presented as a bill, President Bush used the bully-pulpit and proclaimed that we should have a complete overhaul of the failing, near bankrupt Social Security system. What was the left's response? Fear-mongering to the max. Scare tactics that we see used today by the Right, are the very same ones used by the Left when such an idea was brought up. The cycle is ongoing.

To also proclaim that President Obama should not have been a wimp and used his majority to 'ram' the health care issue through...what good will that do? That isn't sound leadership, that is getting what you want, regardless of how you get it.

That very notion goes against the very things you are complaining about in regards to the 'Right' wanting to have their way of freedom and liberty, yet you want the current lot to enact their will upon us because you agree with them.

I know I rambled here a bit and probably a good majority off-topic. Forgive me. I am being pulled in different directions due to some major changes in my life.

On a positive note, your experiences in regards to Nixon would be fascinating to hear one day.



posted on Jan, 7 2010 @ 09:44 PM
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Originally posted by heyo
reply to post by ziggystrange
 


The tendency of the left to claim "racism" over every little thing is absolutely looney tunes.
Also, remember the anti-war protests that have magically disappeared since Obama took office?
I could go on all day about the hypocrisy of the left, the same way I could about the right's. They are no different. No side is above the other's bs.


Every little thing like what? Give me a few examples of the little things they call racist that aren't. We might agree.

Yes. It happens, people play the race card, right, and wrong. More often than not, they are right. You may disagree.

War protests went away because Bush did. The Bush administration was a disaster. If Bush were President, there would be protests.

Ziggy



posted on Jan, 7 2010 @ 09:56 PM
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Originally posted by ExPostFacto
As someone who identifies myself with the right, I do not blame the left. At one point in time the left defended the constitution tooth and nail, they believed in never sacraficing liberties for any government reason. Both parties are confused. I say vote third party, vote out incumbants, and for those that manage to still remain in congress need to start defending our constitution first and foremost. The constitution was written by the people and therefore all rights expressed within should be to the benefit of the people at all times.


Hi thanks for posting.

I agree with you 100 % as long as we use the vote. But the Candidate can't be a fringe ideologue.

Honestly, if Obama blows it, and he may well.
Who do you trust?

Ziggy



posted on Jan, 7 2010 @ 10:42 PM
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Originally posted by Magnum007
reply to post by ziggystrange
 


I will concentrate my answer to just a few possible reasons. I may be wrong, but I think it's a start.

1. There is no contesting the fact that the Government of the U.S.A. is run (not entirely but close to it) by big companies who lobby the officials (I.E. for bail out money, for legislation that makes some businesses richer than others, etc...)

2. If you admit the truth, you are liable to the wrath of judicial scrutiny and prosecution (I.E. reasons why nobody comments on things before the court issues are over).

3. The truth is just too costly to handle on the PR scale of things and we all know that politics, as in show business, is all about how the person is perceived (I.E. Having an affair? You must resign. Don't follow your party's vote schedule/agenda? You must resign. etc... etc... etc...)

Now for the answer to your question about why the right is blaming the left for various things:

It's a tactic for people who don't have anything to offer more. It's called projection. What this means is basically when you don't have any arguments to defend your position, then you attack the other (just like the Mom and kids example I gave before). It's common among people who struggle for power to use this tactic in an attempt to discredit the opponent so that either their position seems better, or to hide something worse on their side.

Unfortunately my fellow truth seeker, we may never know the real reasons behind this tactic. I can tell you for sure, though, that it is used by both sides to distract the public, and to shift the focus of an issue on the other side.

It's sad, but it's politics. Too bad we can't just all be human and accept our mistakes, correct and learn from them, and then just move on.

Magnum


I agree with all your points, and your commiseration.

But I also believe that you have to follow your instincts.

Dylan said

"You don't need a Weatherman to know which way the wind blows"

I don't like the way the wind's blowing.

I'm a Boomer, I saw this country freak out a few times. It's not pretty.
I also saw people get change by peaceful, and violent means.

I don't want to see a bloodbath, and I don't want to live in an idiocracy.

If we don't learn to live together, we are going to blow it.

Thanks,

Ziggy



posted on Jan, 7 2010 @ 10:55 PM
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reply to post by ziggystrange
 


You talk as if democrats are completely innocent. You are doing everything you blame republicans of doing by targeting republicans. Next time try starting a thread that doesn't make you out to be some liberal thats upset because obama lied about spreading the wealth.

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