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Jesus AKA God

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posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 06:41 PM
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reply to post by oliveoil
 


It does not mean that there arent thoughts that are generated without the spirit. It does not mean that there arent thoughts that are influenced only by Earthly gains and Earthly wants. Thoughts are 'unseen' and are not physical...but that does not make all thoughts of a spiritual nature.

You cant see hate...but its not of spirit. You cant see pride...but its not of spirit.

Im not discerning between the unseen and the seen...which is where you seem to think Im coming from. There is a nature of all things. There is a nature within hate, pride and greed. There is a different nature of love, giving, and hope.

Just because you cant see something does not make it of spirit.

[edit on 9-1-2010 by LeoVirgo]




posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 07:09 PM
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Originally posted by LeoVirgo
reply to post by oliveoil
 


It does not mean that there arent thoughts that are generated without the spirit. It does not mean that there arent thoughts that are influenced only by Earthly gains and Earthly wants. Thoughts are 'unseen' and are not physical...but that does not make all thoughts of a spiritual nature.

You cant see hate...but its not of spirit. You cant see pride...but its not of spirit.

Im not discerning between the unseen and the seen...which is where you seem to think Im coming from. There is a nature of all things. There is a nature within hate, pride and greed. There is a different nature of love, giving, and hope.

Just because you cant see something does not make it of spirit.

[edit on 9-1-2010 by LeoVirgo]


I'm just gonna leave you to ponder this overnight. There are evil spirits and there are good spirits.



posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 07:15 PM
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Originally posted by oliveoil

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry
reply to post by oliveoil
 


Jesus was a man who walked the earth in the flesh. Jesus is not, and never was, a GOD. If anything, Jesus was a conduit to which the forces of nature could readily move through. Jesus even stated himself that the only God was the father and regularly refused worship. Your bible also states and warns to never worship a man. As long as someone is in the flesh and blood form, you might as well skip calling them a God.

This has been done over and over again on ATS and its getting boring.

By the way...Chris Angel walked on water as well. Is he GOD???


Oh okay thanks for the heads up. Ill be sure to spread the good news.


Keep worshiping flesh and blood...See where it gets you.



posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 07:20 PM
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Originally posted by oliveoil

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
reply to post by oliveoil
 


Carnal natures are not a result of spiritual things. Spiritual things are to be discerned from what is of flesh.



Your wrong. Your flesh cannot do things on its own.Your spirit controls your flesh. Now, weather your spirit produces good thought or bad thought it has nothing to do with the flesh, unless you use your flesh to do bad( make a bomb and blow people up)Or good (to help someone from drowning).

So you see, Carnal nature is only perceived as to what your spirit perceives it to be.Another words their is no carnal knowledge of sorts only spiritual good and evil that thought produces.







[edit on 9-1-2010 by oliveoil]


Well stated, and I agree. However, with everything that you seem to understand, you still bow to a man who was of flesh and blood. There's a gross contradiction there, and one day, you'll probably realize it.



posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 07:20 PM
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Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry

Originally posted by oliveoil

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry
reply to post by oliveoil
 


Jesus was a man who walked the earth in the flesh. Jesus is not, and never was, a GOD. If anything, Jesus was a conduit to which the forces of nature could readily move through. Jesus even stated himself that the only God was the father and regularly refused worship. Your bible also states and warns to never worship a man. As long as someone is in the flesh and blood form, you might as well skip calling them a God.

This has been done over and over again on ATS and its getting boring.

By the way...Chris Angel walked on water as well. Is he GOD???


Oh okay thanks for the heads up. Ill be sure to spread the good news.


Keep worshiping flesh and blood...See where it gets you.


I don't worship flesh and blood. And if you had any sort of Biblical knowledge you would realize that this was meant not in a literal way.



posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 07:27 PM
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Leo Virgo is speaking the truth. You might want to consider that the teachings that you subscribe to could be tainted with the fallibility of mankind. Organized religion is nothing more than organized control. It is supported by the same governments that kill for profit and is a tax write off for the wealthy. This is the reason that there is no separation of church and state...one filthy hand washes the other.

If you recall, YOUR JESUS flipped out in a synagogue and destroyed a temple because of its hypocrisy. And here you are promoting the same thing Jesus himself was against. So, personally, I have nothing against you...I just feel that you're helping to perpetuate the very thing that Jesus sought to destroy.

Bottom line. Jesus was a tree hugging hippie, and I give him all the respect for loving nature, his creator, and humanity as a whole.



posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 07:32 PM
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Originally posted by oliveoil

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry

Originally posted by oliveoil

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry
reply to post by oliveoil
 


Jesus was a man who walked the earth in the flesh. Jesus is not, and never was, a GOD. If anything, Jesus was a conduit to which the forces of nature could readily move through. Jesus even stated himself that the only God was the father and regularly refused worship. Your bible also states and warns to never worship a man. As long as someone is in the flesh and blood form, you might as well skip calling them a God.

This has been done over and over again on ATS and its getting boring.

By the way...Chris Angel walked on water as well. Is he GOD???


Oh okay thanks for the heads up. Ill be sure to spread the good news.


Keep worshiping flesh and blood...See where it gets you.


I don't worship flesh and blood. And if you had any sort of Biblical knowledge you would realize that this was meant not in a literal way.


My friend...biblical knowledge is nothing short of blasphemy. I was brought up Methodist, and I know the bible front to back. I also know ALL OF THE CONTRADICTIONS that are casually thrown in the bible and I am also aware of hundreds of books that were conveniently left out of the text that you now read. You can claim that I am ignorant of the bible all you like, insults were never that important to me anyway...it won't change the mind of someone who has evolved past the lies.



posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 08:03 PM
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Originally posted by oliveoil

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
reply to post by oliveoil
 


It does not mean that there arent thoughts that are generated without the spirit. It does not mean that there arent thoughts that are influenced only by Earthly gains and Earthly wants. Thoughts are 'unseen' and are not physical...but that does not make all thoughts of a spiritual nature.

You cant see hate...but its not of spirit. You cant see pride...but its not of spirit.

Im not discerning between the unseen and the seen...which is where you seem to think Im coming from. There is a nature of all things. There is a nature within hate, pride and greed. There is a different nature of love, giving, and hope.

Just because you cant see something does not make it of spirit.

[edit on 9-1-2010 by LeoVirgo]


I'm just gonna leave you to ponder this overnight. There are evil spirits and there are good spirits.


Give me one example of how a evil spirit can have power over me, and I will show you a human thought that is lacking the spirit within it. Evil is just lack of love. How do we learn things oliveoil? Do we learn things just because someone has told us something? How do we learn that lying is wrong? How do we learn that hate gets us no where? How do we learn that greed is a selfish thing?

From experience. Its not the experience itself that is 'bad' but the lack of awareness of the feelings it brings to our spirit. If not in tune, a person wont know what the spirit needs.

You have both the 'good' and 'evil' within you. If you dont discern that...that falls onto you and you alone. If someone (lets say a parent) misled you in thinking that something was right, when it was really wrong...that parent wil have to stand up for that teaching. But also, when of age an able to determine between dark and light, life and death...the one that was taught a 'wrong' way wil also be held accountable, for they are given their own reason and logic to weigh things for themselves one day.

Discerning the natures within us has alot to do with age and experiences. If one has empathy for others, they can use this to learn from others experiences to.

When you think of the Holy Spirit...do you think of jealousy and something that is fast to anger? When you think of the Holy Spirit, do you feel in your gut that this Holy Spirit is concerned if you believe in a blood shed for God or not? When you think of the Holy Spirit, do you think it cares if man builds a Temple here on Earth for God...something that is not of this Earth?

Those questions are much more important then what we have been discussing. Those questions are a key to if someone is discerning between what is of spirit and what is of flesh.

We have to walk the walk, not just talk the talk. By walking the walk, we are tested. Our patients, our love, our compassion, our true intentions...life is a journey that can teach us what 'way' we want to live for. If it is Earth one desires...Earth it will get. If its spiritual things one desires, spiritual things they will get. We are here to learn what we are.

I see no point in you saying that there are evil spirits. No point at all. If you fall for a evil action, you are the one carrying that cross....nothing but you.



posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 08:17 PM
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Oliveoil...

Ask yourself, what nature is created in man, to believe another man had to die? How is this anything short of having the blood on your hands?

Ask yourself, what nature is created in man, to believe that God needs us to believe in a chosen people? How is this anything short of separating us all?

Do you not see the seeds that man has sown that we now have the choice to reap them or not? Sow more seeds of carnal natures....or start to sow seeds of the spirit....its all up to us.



posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 08:21 PM
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Originally posted by awake1234
human instrument .aka. soul carrier .aka. God Fragment

Creator is in Creation
We are All One


LOVE


The difference being, Jesus was a God fragment that had a direct connection to the will of the Father (the Creative Mind).



posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 08:24 PM
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reply to post by Donnie Darko
 


But so do you....

His flesh is your flesh, his blood is your blood...his father is your father....

Did you not know...? Many do not...their spiritual birth right has been suppressed by man.

The kingdom is within you...tune into the Holy Spirit with every thought and every breath.



posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 09:15 PM
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Originally posted by LaxAndBeer
To shorten a large argumentative post just for the sake of debating, there is also a good amount of proof that God is not Jesus.
1. "In the beginning was The Word, and The Word was with God, and The Word was God." (John 1:1)
My Explanation: 'The Word' was in terms of Angels (Jesus is said to be the first Angel and thus Gods only begotten son). Notice "The Word was WITH God", not The Word WAS God. This is just one minor bit of proof.

2. The trilogy is never talked of in the bible. It is never spoken of, and never was until the 4th Century. But for the sake of rebuttal, it doesn't precisely go out of it's way to speak of a Trinity NOT being present.


There is nothing the Christian Bible describing Jesus as "the 1st angel". Help me understand if this is your opinon or what source you're using that you describe as a "minor bit of proof" that he isn't God? The Bible says the ..."and the Word WAS God". You can say this statement in the Bible is a lie, but let's not argue that the word "was" isn't written there. The Trinity is in the Bible, starting with Genesis, where it says "Let US make man in OUR image after OUR likeness."
Genesis 1:26



posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 09:31 PM
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reply to post by pumpkinorange
 


More debating over scripture...a man made object of Earth.

Look within, to find the answers. Ask Jesus to guide you in your seeking. Ask the Holy Spirit to show you understanding of spiritual things.

The Bible is very misleading for those not looking for spiritual things. They will be blinded to believe God is things Thee is not. As well as Jesus to be things he was not.

Jesus showed us how to transcend this world of flesh. Try to do as Jesus did...you will go far. Jesus says to pick up your own cross and follow in his ways. He is showing us how to live for the spirit and not live for this life of flesh.

People get so caught up in the details of a book, written by man.



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 07:42 AM
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reply to post by LeoVirgo
 


You are not looking at simple truths. You are not looking at scientific truths.
Point being and like I said before, Your thoughts are not composed of matter. Your stored thoughts are not composed of matter.Your emotions are not composed of matter.This is your mind, which is your spirit, which is a soul, which animates your body, which is made of matter. There are only two worlds here, that which is physical and that which is not. The word carnal refers to the material body, which is composed of matter, which is physical.

carnal
One entry found.

Main Entry: car·nal
Pronunciation: \ˈkär-nəl\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French or Late Latin; Anglo-French carnel, charnel, from Late Latin carnalis, from Latin carn-, caro flesh; akin to Greek keirein to cut — more at shear
Date: 14th century

1 a : relating to or given to crude bodily pleasures and appetites b : marked by sexuality
2 : bodily, corporeal
3 a : temporal b : worldly

— car·nal·i·ty \kär-ˈna-lə-tē\ noun

— car·nal·ly \ˈkär-nə-lē\ adverb
synonyms carnal, fleshly, sensual, animal mean having a relation to the body. carnal may mean only this but more often connotes derogatorily an action or manifestation of a person's lower nature . fleshly is less derogatory than carnal . sensual may apply to any gratification of a bodily desire or pleasure but commonly implies sexual appetite with absence of the spiritual or intellectual . animal stresses the physical as distinguished from the rational nature of a person .

The body can not do anything on its own. Only ones mind can will the body to act. Weather you act or not is your own free will.

So you see we as humans are spirits, Just like the angles, and just like God.However, we have physical bodies, God and the angles do not.
We also have free will, to choose between what is good and what is evil.
Its not that man is born with a carnal mind and we have to discern between the voice of the spirit or our own carnal mind,That does not make any sense.
We are born with not knowing anything and are taught survival skills and what is right and what is wrong by the people who raise us. Only our spirit knows good from evil. ex. A baby doesn't know right from wrong however, a baby knows the warm goodness from its mother than a evil scary clown.
Good and evil are hard wired into our minds.



Give me one example of how a evil spirit can have power over me, and I will show you a human thought that is lacking the spirit within it. Evil is just lack of love. How do we learn things oliveoil?
You could also say that love is a lack of evil, its a floating scale. However, there is a difference. There are those who love evil and those who hate love.Point being that everyone knows the difference. Here is an example of how an evil spirit can have power over you. You could commit an act of wrong towards someone such as cheating on your spouse. You know its the wrong thing to do but you continue to do it. Eventually you do not care that its the wrong thing to do and you enjoy it. You are not doing this out of love you are doing it out of lust.But it doesn't stop there, you continue to cheat with every one because the lust you crave. You cannot stop and are controlled by your wrong doing which is an evil towards another person thus being your spouse.

[edit on 10-1-2010 by oliveoil]



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 08:11 AM
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Originally posted by pumpkinorange

Originally posted by LaxAndBeer
To shorten a large argumentative post just for the sake of debating, there is also a good amount of proof that God is not Jesus.
1. "In the beginning was The Word, and The Word was with God, and The Word was God." (John 1:1)
My Explanation: 'The Word' was in terms of Angels (Jesus is said to be the first Angel and thus Gods only begotten son). Notice "The Word was WITH God", not The Word WAS God. This is just one minor bit of proof.

2. The trilogy is never talked of in the bible. It is never spoken of, and never was until the 4th Century. But for the sake of rebuttal, it doesn't precisely go out of it's way to speak of a Trinity NOT being present.


There is nothing the Christian Bible describing Jesus as "the 1st angel". Help me understand if this is your opinon or what source you're using that you describe as a "minor bit of proof" that he isn't God? The Bible says the ..."and the Word WAS God". You can say this statement in the Bible is a lie, but let's not argue that the word "was" isn't written there. The Trinity is in the Bible, starting with Genesis, where it says "Let US make man in OUR image after OUR likeness."
Genesis 1:26


Just to add a tidbit, I really cant see how anyone can say that "and the word was God" is a lie. and your quote on Genesis 1:26 is proof no less.



Originally posted by LeoVirgo
reply to post by pumpkinorange
 


More debating over scripture...a man made object of Earth.

Look within, to find the answers. Ask Jesus to guide you in your seeking. Ask the Holy Spirit to show you understanding of spiritual things.

The Bible is very misleading for those not looking for spiritual things. They will be blinded to believe God is things Thee is not. As well as Jesus to be things he was not.

Jesus showed us how to transcend this world of flesh. Try to do as Jesus did...you will go far. Jesus says to pick up your own cross and follow in his ways. He is showing us how to live for the spirit and not live for this life of flesh.

People get so caught up in the details of a book, written by man.

Isaiah 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.



[edit on 10-1-2010 by oliveoil]



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 09:48 AM
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Dear OP, please look up the word "ethnocentrism."

Christianity is but one religion on the planet.



Hope that helps. Case closed.

[edit on 10-1-2010 by kinda kurious]



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 10:00 AM
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Originally posted by oliveoil
reply to post by LeoVirgo
 


You are not looking at simple truths. You are not looking at scientific truths.
Point being and like I said before, Your thoughts are not composed of matter. Your stored thoughts are not composed of matter.Your emotions are not composed of matter.This is your mind, which is your spirit, which is a soul, which animates your body, which is made of matter. There are only two worlds here, that which is physical and that which is not. The word carnal refers to the material body, which is composed of matter, which is physical.

carnal
One entry found.

Main Entry: car·nal
Pronunciation: \ˈkär-nəl\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French or Late Latin; Anglo-French carnel, charnel, from Late Latin carnalis, from Latin carn-, caro flesh; akin to Greek keirein to cut — more at shear
Date: 14th century

1 a : relating to or given to crude bodily pleasures and appetites b : marked by sexuality
2 : bodily, corporeal
3 a : temporal b : worldly

— car·nal·i·ty \kär-ˈna-lə-tē\ noun

— car·nal·ly \ˈkär-nə-lē\ adverb
synonyms carnal, fleshly, sensual, animal mean having a relation to the body. carnal may mean only this but more often connotes derogatorily an action or manifestation of a person's lower nature . fleshly is less derogatory than carnal . sensual may apply to any gratification of a bodily desire or pleasure but commonly implies sexual appetite with absence of the spiritual or intellectual . animal stresses the physical as distinguished from the rational nature of a person .

The body can not do anything on its own. Only ones mind can will the body to act. Weather you act or not is your own free will.

So you see we as humans are spirits, Just like the angles, and just like God.However, we have physical bodies, God and the angles do not.
We also have free will, to choose between what is good and what is evil.
Its not that man is born with a carnal mind and we have to discern between the voice of the spirit or our own carnal mind,That does not make any sense.
We are born with not knowing anything and are taught survival skills and what is right and what is wrong by the people who raise us. Only our spirit knows good from evil. ex. A baby doesn't know right from wrong however, a baby knows the warm goodness from its mother than a evil scary clown.
Good and evil are hard wired into our minds.



Give me one example of how a evil spirit can have power over me, and I will show you a human thought that is lacking the spirit within it. Evil is just lack of love. How do we learn things oliveoil?
You could also say that love is a lack of evil, its a floating scale. However, there is a difference. There are those who love evil and those who hate love.Point being that everyone knows the difference. Here is an example of how an evil spirit can have power over you. You could commit an act of wrong towards someone such as cheating on your spouse. You know its the wrong thing to do but you continue to do it. Eventually you do not care that its the wrong thing to do and you enjoy it. You are not doing this out of love you are doing it out of lust.But it doesn't stop there, you continue to cheat with every one because the lust you crave. You cannot stop and are controlled by your wrong doing which is an evil towards another person thus being your spouse.

[edit on 10-1-2010 by oliveoil]


A thought is generated by our psychical bodies. To understand what is of spirit...you need to look at it more as a 'nature'. If I cheat on my spouse, I am not using the nature of my spirit. I am using the nature of lustful desires, which is a nature of the Earth/physical gains. What is the purpose of my cheating? To gain a a lustful physical experience. There is not 'evil' spirit getting me to cheat, the spirit within me doesnt become evil because I cheat. The spirit of life cant be tainted, it can be suppressed, but it is Holy and will always be. There is always a place within each person no matter how much they lived for things of the Earth, they can still find this Holy nature within them....if they look with true intentions. You said the spirit was our feelings also. If I live to cause harm to others, if I have feelings of hate towards others...this is not my spirit. This is the lack of my spirit yes...but it doesnt make it of my spirit. A spiritual nature is only good.




"The desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh" (Gal 5:17)


You can have desires....that are not of the spirit, but yet against it.



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 10:03 AM
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Im not sure why you get hung up on the word 'carnal' for it is in the Bible.

It talks about the 'carnal mind' of man....and how this is not of the spirit.



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 10:53 AM
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reply to post by LeoVirgo
 


reply to post by LeoVirgo
 



A thought is generated by our psychical bodies.

No, you are incorrect. Matter can not create matter.


Im not sure why you get hung up on the word 'carnal' for it is in the Bible.

Because the way you perceive the spirit and the flesh is not correct. and it seems to be warping your sense of reality in relation to your perception to God. After all God is spirit, and if you cant grasp certain truths about your own spirit how can you begin to know certain truths about God.?
( I dont mean this in a bad way, because everyone knows God in their own way) Im just saying this because if we are to discuss god (not the bible) We have to come to terms as to what the truth is.

Truth,
Carnal is of the flesh and is material and in itself is nothing but matter. Your spirit perceives what is good and evil not the flesh. Your spirit controls your body. ex. Does your arm move on its own? no of course not our mind wills are arm to move. this action is not just a mindless thought.



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 10:56 AM
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Originally posted by kinda kurious
Dear OP, please look up the word "ethnocentrism."

Christianity is but one religion on the planet.



Hope that helps. Case closed.

[edit on 10-1-2010 by kinda kurious]


Christianity is not a religion. your chart is wrong.




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