Jesus AKA God

Originally posted by Quickfix
What ever happened to the Father, the son, and the holy spirit?

How can the father, be the father and the son at the same time?

You basically just contradicted yourself....

Go watch zetigeist on youtube, maybe it will help you. There are a few zetgeist movies now..

By spinning around in a circle really really fast.

Usually described as "Atom".

Ever spun a light stick on a string or a sparkler? Though the sparkler is in your hand, the trace of the light is still in front of you when you whip it around...same concept, but this is where it gets fun...This means seaming contradictions are really not contradictions, rather the problem is viewed from both sides so that no "paradox" exists.

In short...the father in everyone. Only the son knows the father, and know one comes to the father, except through the son...this is called life cycle and it is eternal and the meek inherit such...the ones baring the son of man....literally.

Peace

Anyway hope that helps

reply to post by letthereaderunderstand


now go read my other post! haha!

Originally posted by oliveoil
Jesus is God

what a great topic!

Never mind all the biblical quotes. There's actual history here and it relates to the almighty dipthong.

During the rule of Augustus Constantine, now supreme poohbah of the Roman Empire after kicking the crap out of Licinius, he decided that he needed to unify the quarrelling Christian sects, most notably the Arians who were very popular in Alexandria. To that end, he gathered together the bishops of the Roman Empire, ~300 of them, in his palace in Nicaea.

There were other differences to be ironed out at the Council of Nicaea; things like when Easter was supposed to be (they never worked that one out) but the most important was about Jesus.

One faction, led by the Arians, said that Jesus was 'of similar essense' to God. In other words, Jesus and God were seperated.

In the Greek, the two ideas were spelled this way:

Arian:
homoiousion - similar essense

anti-Arian:
homoousion - same essense

The big dipthong.

This became the biggest controversy during the Council of Nicaea. Nothing could be worked out and the bishops became extremely vexed over it. Back and forth it went. Voting didn't work, because if one side seemed to be winning, bishops would recant and side against them to tip the balance the other way.

So they, in particular an anti-Arian bishop named Athanasius who was a buddy of Constantines sister Constantia, invited Arias to Nicaea on the notion that if God favoured Arias, he would survive the journey. Arias amazingly died under horrible circumstances in the town of Nicomedia the day before he was to be received. In fact, he died in a latrine from ultra-serious diarrhea. Maybe it was a miracle, maybe it was poison. We'll never know. Apparently, not to be too graphic about it, he lost his guts that day. (eeeew)

As a result, the Nicene Creed was established and Father, Son and Holy Spirit were designated to be of the same essence.

The dipthong lost.

So, yea, oliveoil... when you say Jesus is God, then you are backing the Nicene Creed.

[edit on 7/1/10 by masqua]

Originally posted by Quickfix
reply to post by badmedia

 

I know where your coming from about the movie metaphor.

The thing about Jesus being God because of his spirit I also get.

But If Jesus is God just because he has a fraction of his spirit within him, that would mean all human beings are god.

Did i get that right or am i being to analytical?

No, that is right. In fact, when Jesus is asked about this, all he does is quote Psalm 82, and then basically queries them as to what they think is so odd about it to begin with. It should have been common knowledge.

Anyways i find the holy bible lacking and as i have gone through it a few times i would rather use it as a history book of learning rather then a religious book.

In my honest opinion, stick with buhddism..

You don't need any religion. There is nothing that can replace a real relationship and understanding with the father. I like Buddha, but Buddha was not in favor of religions.

Religion is really just stolen water/knowledge. Stolen because they don't really understand, just repeat/accept what they are told. Check out Proverbs 9.

reply to post by badmedia


Buddha was not in favor of religions, just like i am, i find it to controversial and started to many wars for no reason.

I have a holy bible right next to me.

Oh I think you might know this, the god of Abraham - for jews, allah and God are all the same. O.o hmmmmm

reply to post by Quickfix


A rose by another other name still smells the same. Knowledge of the holy is understanding(Proverbs 9). How people express that understanding will change from culture to culture, and in all cultures there will be those who do not understand and just accept/repeat and do things contrary to the understanding itself.

An Indian can say "Great Spirit", but I know what he means.

That's why idolism is frowned upon. People start to worship the idols and then they don't understand. And then people of different idols start fighting and such, neither of them actually following the understanding their idols actually spoke to begin with.

reply to post by badmedia


I do know there is a higher power, but to say absolutely there is only one true religion that is the true way is pretty ignorant.

What verse in proverbs 9?

reply to post by masqua


You explained this really well, regardless of your personal beliefs, you understand how much historical events forced this doctrine(Jesus=God) upon Christians.

I wish more people understood this part of christian history. It allows them to make a more informed choice as to belief structure.

I won't allow a bunch of old men from the 4th century influenced by paganism to take away my independence to choose my beliefs in 2010.

Originally posted by badmedia

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand
reply to post by badmedia

 

This is how you fool everyone. This is how you separate the wheat from the chaff....by not letting your Left hand know what your right hand is doing.

Jesus is the first, because he is the last...only the image or idea of what everyone thinks he is, is just that, an image and the "impersonator".

He says all men come through him, therefore not one enters without him.

False, he says that all men come through the way, the truth and the life.

False, but you quote it right below me...the last three words? But by me...am I missing something? He said he IS the way, the truth, and the life.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Proof of this can be found later in John 14.

John 14

23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

When you say "Jesus", you are referring only to the idol, instead of what it represents.

When I say Jesus, I'm not talking about a Guy "the idol", I'm talking about the actual name and what it means, because no name will save anyone...only action....action is truth...one way or the other.

I'm talking about "SELF EXISTENT SALVATION"....Yahu-Shua...his name is a verb not a noun. Only those "Doing" obtain, those lifting "self existent salvation" UP.

He never preached that he saved people. He preached "repent" for the kingdom is "NOW"....always...now.

Everyone remember...."In my name"...this means more then you could of ever thought.

Jesus means "Self existent Salvation" and that is the name or should I say "Action" that one is truly saved in.

This I think I pretty much agree with you on.

True fruit of the spirit is a child...this is why Jesus is always called "The PRINCE of Peace", because the Kingdom belongs to Children...

When it says, "unless you become as a child, you shall in no way see the kingdom" the greek says, "Unless you regenerate (procreate) and become as a child, you shall not see the kingdom"

This is not true. It says you have to become as a child. You have to seek in order to find. What do children do? They are innocent and honest. They seek because they do not know. They do not hold on to existing beliefs and they are open minded. In order to gain true understanding, you have to let go of your beliefs and start to seek.

I think it's pretty self evident people don't need to be prompted into having children.

See for yourself....Generate...come into being.

G1096
γίνομαι
ginomai
ghin'-om-ahee
A prolonged and middle form of a primary verb; to cause to be (“gen” -erate), that is, (reflexively) to become (come into being), used with great latitude (literally, figuratively, intensively, etc.): - arise be assembled, be (come, -fall, -have self), be brought (to pass), (be) come (to pass), continue, be divided, be done, draw, be ended, fall, be finished, follow, be found, be fulfilled, + God forbid, grow, happen, have, be kept, be made, be married, be ordained to be, partake, pass, be performed, be published, require, seem, be showed, X soon as it was, sound, be taken, be turned,
use, wax, will, would, be wrought.

When one doesn't need to be prompted...they are obedient..."Meek".

Children are obvious, that is why know one sees it. Silly really...Look at it like this.

If Jesus is The way, The truth and the Life....let's do some deducting.

If he is the life...where is he. The only life I see in TRUTH is my fellow man and creatures.

If then in TRUTH, this is what I see...the life of my fellow man, creatures and even the earth, yet no "JESUS" where am I? But if I look at the meaning of Jesus and see it means "self existent salvation" which I can also affirm is absolutely true, because I am alive, then this leads me with one path which must be attached or it doesn't hold.

The way....Is Generation to Generation....True...verified by God..."I did not make the earth to be void and empty"...(Dead people in heaven...fairytails...untrue) 1st Commandment Given ever...."Be fruitful and Multiply and subdue the earth".....Because of this...A man must leave his mother and father and cling "INSIDE" of the woman of him and the two shall become ONE FLESH...a new generation.....2=1.

The Truth....Is what is. Truth is not something that needs to be proven or it wouldn't be true...Again the NAME of Jesus comes into True play..."Self Existent Salvation".

Most importantly

The Life...if you see it any other place then earth let me know. Only life I've ever "Truly" know was "Man and woman...make baby"....Generation to Generation forever.

God warns those who persue Vanity or Nothing...Make believe...like believing that murdering another man some how justifies our own lives.
The Truth...Is what I know to absolutely be true, not what I conjecture on, but what is proven...

This is pure truth, for unless you regenerate "a new generation", you will not witness life...(your children's lives....the kingdom with name of "my god" on it).

So I take it you believe Jesus had many children?

I don't even know if he was A man, but I know his voice and hear him just as he promised.

I have no children...these are those who "lost their heads for the witness of Jesus"....The spirit witnesses you, not the other way around. If the spirit is witnessing you....YOU ARE IN TROUBLE, but you are loved..only if you do not change what you know you should be changing...prepare to become ecclesiastical...because this means Eclectic...separated...weirdo...savant...Prepare to have your world torn in every direction and prepare to watch all false gods tumble including the one on the cross.

Isaiah is specifically about Jesus, but the whole book, not just the parts christians pic out....Jesus is who is being spoken of the whole time. He is the one tossed from the grave.

I know his image is "Anti-man" because his image is telling people that they "won't die, for in the day they eat of it, there eyes shall be opened and they shall be like the eloihim"...his image is the serpent, his words are life. Only people seeing truth will see past this "contradiction" for there isn't one. His Job is to gather out all things that offend and he is the first born from the offenders...

He is "the spirit" (Breath or words) of prophecy. Again God honors actions not individuals...all souls are his.

Do you understand why he KNEW where he was going and that they couldn't follow?

See reality. Nothing is hidden, except for us....you are your brothers KEEPER.

Children are the light of the world, they are the treasure in heaven that rust and moth can not destroy. Declare his name to a new Generation by naming him....a name only you know given on a white pebble....simion...Semen....The Anointing Oil.....

The life in you is worth more then your body, God REQUIRES the blood of every man, because man is his house....don't go


"Burning down the house...."

Peace

Do you believe the flesh is the life?

[edit on 1/7/2010 by badmedia]

I believe the life is in the blood. I believe the flesh to be "wineskins"...temporary, but necesary...thus the life in you is greater then the body...only be faithful.

Why would god want to take us to a "heaven" which some believe requires death to see making his crowning achievement..."creating man" only to want everyone to die to come to him...He states clearly.....I am the God of the living of Abraham (High Father), Yitzak (laughter) and, Yacov (Heal catcher)...he is the father of Generations...hence Abraham Yitzak and Jacob..Generation to generation...forever here

reply to post by letthereaderunderstand


Life is consciousness. The observer, that which experiences, that which is "being". That which is aware. "I am that I am".

When people die, it's not because of a lack of blood.

It can only come from the father within. It's what robots lack, no free will and so forth as a result. It's why you are hated by those who seek power. You have choice and such as a result of the father within. Anytime you exercise it against the will of those who seek power, you are hated.

Try to define "you" without naming a possession. Materialistic people define themselves as their career, jobs, family etc. Less Materialistic people define themselves as their brain. Spiritual people define themselves as souls. But these are all possessions. What is it that possesses all these things?

Life is "consciousness", thus he is the god of consciousness. Just because the flesh dies does not mean the consciousness dies. This is why Jesus says - do not fear those who can only kill the flesh, fear that which can kill the soul.


[edit on 1/7/2010 by badmedia]

Originally posted by badmedia
reply to post by letthereaderunderstand

 

Life is consciousness. The observer, that which experiences, that which is "being". That which is aware. "I am that I am".

When people die, it's not because of a lack of blood.

It can only come from the father within. It's what robots lack, no free will and so forth as a result. It's why you are hated by those who seek power. You have choice and such as a result of the father within. Anytime you exercise it against the will of those who seek power, you are hated.

Try to define "you" without naming a possession. Materialistic people define themselves as their career, jobs, family etc. Less Materialistic people define themselves as their brain. Spiritual people define themselves as souls. But these are all possessions. What is it that possesses all these things?

Life is "consciousness", thus he is the god of consciousness. Just because the flesh dies does not mean the consciousness dies. This is why Jesus says - do not fear those who can only kill the flesh, fear that which can kill the soul.


[edit on 1/7/2010 by badmedia]

Exactly. No consciousness, no life. The one who can destroy body and soul is the last one in the family line. They destroy their bodies because they are forgiven, they destroy their soul because they end the blood line, so that their "NAME" never sees the light again.

Realize life is bigger, it's bigger then you and you are not me, the lengths that I will go too, the distance in your eyes... like hurt lost and blinded fool, fooled, oh no I've said too much. i set it up

I thought that I heard you laughing I thought that I heard you scream, I think i thought I saw you try...every whisper, every waking hour, I'm choosing my confession, trying to keep Ayin eye on you, and I don't know if I can do it...sorry just love that song

The blood is your soul. It is the countless generations that have walked the earth till you. It is your make up. If you do not provide a way for your blood to go...the blood is on your head, even so it is required of you for life. God gives life, it is only fitting that we follow his lead

God is the force that provides you life. He/She/IT is the force that not only divided your cells (see genesis as it is an account of Generating not creating the planet sun and moon, but the incubation and development of a human being)...

God IS and is why he is the ancient of days....never missed one yet.
the host, us all, we are the body of God. No man can see God and live, because to see every man ever is impossible.


Anyway, you destroy your soul (blood) when you stop the blood line, especially being first born....I tell you the truth....I know...I am damned in my current state...God assures me. I only tell you what I know is truth, but then everyone knows it...

"he comes up as a root out of dry ground" "He is nothing that you should notice him"

People who are one with God are not looking for him...they are one. The son must become father or the son will not see father, but the distruction or scattering to the wind of your helix...and so you start again down the billion year path. The others go forward as what is done is done forever....no time travel....Just natural law.

Peace

reply to post by badmedia


The first death is dying to oneself. This is forgoing your materialistic wants and passions to foster or bear children...called "the son of man" clearly, no deception, means just what it says.

Those taking part in the first resurrection have no part in the second death as they have a line to "the world to come" by way of "inheritance"


Believe it or not, you are the home of many of your past on ancestors...they are the 24 elders. If you are not bettering(not you personally but anyone), your elders will fall and toss their crowns at your feet asking "how long until you judge justly" Again, I would not tell you if it were not so...

the 7 stars are you parents and grandparents...you are the 7th and also the 8th and go to perdition...I tell you I'm in perdition now. the four living animals are your grandparents and the two lampstands are your parents...they stand beside "the whole earth"

The tree of life is the family tree...adding to it, you eat from it....the cross is called the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil....Right and left....Dualism or an unstable bipolar person...an eclectic....called out.

The one to fear is the one you least expect....ourselves.

Peace

This is my first post and I am a newbie to this site and enjoy ats very much... I consider myself a christian, but would like to hear people with greater knowlegde then me on this Youtube Video which i believe goes with this important topic.

"Top 10 reasons why Jesus Christ Isn't God-TheDeenShow" - Youtube

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand
The first death is dying to oneself. This is forgoing your materialistic wants and passions to foster or bear children...called "the son of man" clearly, no deception, means just what it says.

Those taking part in the first resurrection have no part in the second death as they have a line to "the world to come" by way of "inheritance"

The first death is the death of the flesh. The second death is the deal of the spirit/soul.

Believe it or not, you are the home of many of your past on ancestors...they are the 24 elders. If you are not bettering(not you personally but anyone), your elders will fall and toss their crowns at your feet asking "how long until you judge justly" Again, I would not tell you if it were not so...

It is the father who in the end experiences all things.

the 7 stars are you parents and grandparents...you are the 7th and also the 8th and go to perdition...I tell you I'm in perdition now. the four living animals are your grandparents and the two lampstands are your parents...they stand beside "the whole earth"

I honestly don't know what this is all about. If you would like to explain more, I will listen and try to hear the understanding.

The tree of life is the family tree...adding to it, you eat from it....the cross is called the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil....Right and left....Dualism or an unstable bipolar person...an eclectic....called out.

The one to fear is the one you least expect....ourselves.

Peace

The tree of life is all living things. The reason why mankind is sent to the earth in genesis is because they no longer keep "the way of the tree of life". As such, they are not allowed to eat from it(eternal life).

Jesus shows the "way of the tree of life" to people by keeping the commandments so they can also follow the way, which is what will lead to being back into the garden and "eat from the tree of life".

The only way back is to follow the way of the tree of life, which is to keep the commandments and Jesus shows how they do that.

You are quarantined here to protect all the other life in the universe. That is what Genesis says anyway. It seems logical and makes sense to me.

I don't know about what souls do what and all that you are talking about. And I don't think I've ever seen such an emphasis on sex in these things. I just don't see where the trouble and everything revolving around sex, as if people need to be made to do it or something.

"The bible is flawed."

Why must I keep hearing this unfounded statement?

Prove that it is. Prove that it isn't. Neither can be made true so neither can be proclaimed as truth.

Statistics and possibilities do not make something TRUE...only likely...and we know the universe is vast and UNlikely things happen all the time.

Shush your mouth and acknowledge the possibilities.

Respectfully
A2D

reply to post by LaxAndBeer

To shorten a large argumentative post just for the sake of debating, there is also a good amount of proof that God is not Jesus.

1. "In the beginning was The Word, and The Word was with God, and The Word was God." (John 1:1)

My Explanation: 'The Word' was in terms of Angels (Jesus is said to be the first Angel and thus Gods only begotten son). Notice "The Word was WITH God", not The Word WAS God. This is just one minor bit of proof.

You just overlooked a huge bit of detail. notice "AND THE WORD WAS GOD". your explanation is flawed

2. The trilogy is never talked of in the bible. It is never spoken of, and never was until the 4th Century. But for the sake of rebuttal, it doesn't precisely go out of it's way to speak of a Trinity NOT being present.

The "Trilogy" was indeed talked about way before the 4 century.Tertullian alone wrote much about it.

3. Jesuit Edmund Fortman admits: "The Old Testament . . . tells us nothing explicitly or by necessary implication of a Triune God who is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. . . . There is no evidence that any sacred writer even suspected the existence of a [Trinity] within the Godhead. . . . Even to see in [the "Old Testament"] suggestions or foreshadowings or 'veiled signs' of the trinity of persons, is to go beyond the words and intent of the sacred writers."—Italics ours.

credit: www.watchtower.com

The Watchtower? Oh brother, You can do better than this.

Yahweh is a compilation of deities that got rolled into one. Read carefully and do some scholarly research and you will find it is so.

King David was praying to a volcano.

Solomon's god was an oracle; the ark of the covenant was a device like a primitive HAARP.

Jesus was no relation to the old testament "god".

reply to post by Alethea


Any proof on that Ark statement i wana look into that more, i find it interesting

reply to post by masqua

what a great topic!

Never mind all the biblical quotes. There's actual history here and it relates to the almighty dipthong.

During the rule of Augustus Constantine, now supreme poohbah of the Roman Empire after kicking the crap out of Licinius, he decided that he needed to unify the quarrelling Christian sects, most notably the Arians who were very popular in Alexandria. To that end, he gathered together the bishops of the Roman Empire, ~300 of them, in his palace in Nicaea.

There were other differences to be ironed out at the Council of Nicaea; things like when Easter was supposed to be (they never worked that one out) but the most important was about Jesus.

One faction, led by the Arians, said that Jesus was 'of similar essense' to God. In other words, Jesus and God were seperated.

In the Greek, the two ideas were spelled this way:

Arian:
homoiousion - similar essense

anti-Arian:
homoousion - same essense

The big dipthong.

This became the biggest controversy during the Council of Nicaea. Nothing could be worked out and the bishops became extremely vexed over it. Back and forth it went. Voting didn't work, because if one side seemed to be winning, bishops would recant and side against them to tip the balance the other way.

So they, in particular an anti-Arian bishop named Athanasius who was a buddy of Constantines sister Constantia, invited Arias to Nicaea on the notion that if God favoured Arias, he would survive the journey. Arias amazingly died under horrible circumstances in the town of Nicomedia the day before he was to be received. In fact, he died in a latrine from ultra-serious diarrhea. Maybe it was a miracle, maybe it was poison. We'll never know. Apparently, not to be too graphic about it, he lost his guts that day. (eeeew)

As a result, the Nicene Creed was established and Father, Son and Holy Spirit were designated to be of the same essence.

The dipthong lost.

So, yea, oliveoil... when you say Jesus is God, then you are backing the Nicene Creed.

Yes, I am backing (this part) of the Nicene Creed because it absolutely makes perfect sense. Arius claimed that the son was not God but only the highest creature of God.The Creed, which was formulated at the Council of Constantinople (now Istanbul) answered his claim by asserting that the son of God was begotten or born, not made or created.Thus, if anyone is a Catholic, we get "God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God. You are correct about "one in being" (homoousios) What ever the Father is ,so is the Son. God = God.
The Bible backs up the creed and its assertions
John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Colossians 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Hebrews 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;.
As for Arias, I guess God does work in mysterious ways

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33

You explained this really well, regardless of your personal beliefs, you understand how much historical events forced this doctrine(Jesus=God) upon Christians.

Please explain how this is forced. It was an obvious conclusion. Any one with an IQ of a flea could figure it out.

I wish more people understood this part of christian history. It allows them to make a more informed choice as to belief structure.

You can either believe it like all Christians or not. Obviously you are not a Christian.

I won't allow a bunch of old men from the 4th century influenced by paganism to take away my independence to choose my beliefs in 2010.

Actually, this was conceived way before the 4th century.Theophilus, Tertullian, Gregory Thaumaturgus, just to name a few.
The Pagans believed in many Gods. Christians believe in one. God the Father, God the Son ,and God the Holy Ghost are all he.


[edit on 8-1-2010 by oliveoil]