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American Airlines Flight 77 was the third flight hijacked as part of the September 11 attacks. It was deliberately crashed into the Pentagon. The flight from Washington Dulles International Airport to Los Angeles International Airport was hijacked by five Islamic extremists less than 35 minutes into the flight
Timeline For American Airlines Flight 77
Questions For NTSB/FBI Regarding Flight Data Recorder Information
1. The current FDR shows 480' MSL True Altitude, too high to hit the light poles. What are your findings of True Altitude at end of data recording 09:37:44. Why did you provide a Flight Data Recorder that shows the aircraft too high without a side letter of explanation? How did you come to your conclusion.
2. What is the vertical speed at end of data recording :44. How did you come to your conclusion.
3. What is the Absolute Altitude and end of data recording? How did you come to your conclusion.
4. Why does the csv file show the altimeter being set in the baro cor column on the descent through FL180, but the animation altimeter does not show it being set?(This is a blatant cover-up to confuse the average layman in hopes no one would adjust for local pressure to get True Altitude. Too bad for them we caught it).
5. Why do the current G Forces for the last minute of data correspond to the changes in vertical speed, yet at end of data :44-:45 it shows an increase in vertical speed never accounting for any type of level off to be level with the lawn as shown in the DoD video?
6. Do you have any video showing a clear impact and/or of the plane on its approach to impact?
7. Why does your animation show a flight path north of the reported flight path?
8. Why are there no system indication of any impact with any object up to and after :44?
9. Why does the csv file and animation show a right bank when the official report requires a left bank to be consistent with physical damage to the generator?
10. How did you come to the conclusion of 09:37:45 as the official impact time?
11. What is the exact chain of custody of the FDR? What date/time was it found? Where exactly was it found? Please provide documentation and names.
12. Why does the hijack timeline show a 3 min interval for hijacking to take place? Why was Capt. Burlingame reported to have not followed protocol for the Common Strategy prior to 9/11?
Analysis of 9/11 Commission Report prior to release of Flight Data Recorder
First let me say i offer no theory or speculation. I definitely do NOT offer that is was a missle, global hawk or otherwise. All the following will be facts (according to reports) and questions.
So, i started with NTSB, since they are the "go-to" guys when you want a report.. right?
This is what i get...
"The Safety Board did not determine the probable cause and does not plan to issue a report or open a public docket. The terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 are under the jurisdiction of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. The Safety Board provided requested technical assistance to the FBI, and any material generated by the NTSB is under the control of the FBI. " Full report here. NTSB report.
All reports from the NTSB for all 4 planes on Sept 11 are identical.
Ok, sounds reasonable. So lets check with the FBI reports.
Thats all i can find from the FBI.
So, lets go to the 9/11 Commission report.
"At 9:29, the autopilot on American 77 was disengaged; the aircraft was at 7,000 feet and approximately 38 miles west of the Pentagon.59 ....
At 9:34, Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport advised the Secret Service of an unknown aircraft heading in the direction of the White House. American 77 was then 5 miles west-southwest of the Pentagon and began a 330-degree turn. At the end of the turn, it was descending through 2,200 feet, pointed toward the Pentagon and downtown Washington. The hijacker pilot then advanced the throttles to maximum power and dove toward the Pentagon.60...
At 9:37:46, American Airlines Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon, traveling at approximately 530 miles per hour.61 All on board, as well as many civilian and military personnel in the building, were killed."
Ok, now we're getting somewhere. The footnote "59, 60, 61" refers to The Flight Path Study of American 77 provided by the NTSB, which no one can find. One person claims to have called the NTSB and the NTSB says they havent done any reports/analysis for any of the aircraft of Sept 11. NTSB phone in DC (202)-314-6000. I tried, but i hit brick walls. Update: 8/11/06 NTSB Flight Path Study released.
So, lets go on what we have. The last known altitude reported for AA77 was 7000 feet. And travelled 33 miles in 5 minutes. Thats 6.6 miles per minute or 396 knots (Update: FDR data shows 325 knots average airspeed. 9/11 Commission Report is inaccurate). Then the aircraft began a 330 degree spiraling dive, leveling at 2200 feet to accelerate to the Pentagon while continuing descent. He started the maneuver at 7000 feet, 396 knots, dove almost 5000 feet within a 330 degree turn and covered 5 miles in about 3 minutes. According to the 9/11 Commission Report, the final impact speed was 530 mph. Update: FDR is now available and the 9/11 report is inaccurate in terms of impact speed.
So lets take an avg speed throughout the dive of 430 knots (7 miles/min). We know a standard rate turn is 2 mins for 360 degrees. So lets say he completed the turn in just under 2 minutes. Since we dont know bank angles or speed. That means he was descending at better than 2500 fpm dropping almost 5000 feet only gaining 30 knots. No problem for guys like you and me, but for Hani? We'll get to him later...
Once this maneuver was completed, without going into a graveyard spiral, he started to pull out of the descent at 2200 feet and accelerated only 30 knots more at full power to 460 knots in a descent from 2200 feet to the pentagon in about a minute (Whats Vmo at sea level for a 757? Flap speed? Since it looks like he may have found the flap handle only accelerating 60 knots from 7000 feet, the from 2200 feet at full power). AA77 crossed the highways, knocking down light poles, entered ground effect, didnt touch the lawn and got a 44 foot high target (Tail height of 757) into a 77 foot target completely, without overshooting or bouncing off the lawn, or spreading any wreckage at 460 knots. With a 33 foot margin for error. Wow, impressive. Takes a real steady hand to pull that off. I know it would take me a few tries to get it so precise, especially entering ground effect at those speeds. Any slight movement will put you off 50 feet very quickly. Im sure we all would agree.
So, who pulled off this stunt?
Hani Hanjour. Reported to have 600TT and a Commercial Certificate (see quotes right margin). Hani tried to get checked out in a 172 a few weeks prior at Freeway Airport in MD. Two seperate CFI's took Hani up to check him out. Baxter and Conner found that Hani had trouble controlling and landing a 172 at 65 knots. Bernard, the Chief CFI, refused to rent him the 172. I have instructed many years. I have soloed students in 172's when i had 300 hours as a CFI. How anyone could not control a 172 at 600TT and a Commercial is beyond me. Flight Schools keep going till you "get it" if you are a bit rusty, and then rent you the plane. They are in business to make money after all. .right? The Chief CFI basically refused any further lessons and basically told him to get lost. All this can be confirmed through google searches.
Later, a week after Sept 11. Bernard, the Chief CFI, made a statement saying, "although Hani was rejected to rent a 172, i have no doubt he could have hit the pentagon." What?? Bernard, who didnt even fly with Hani, doesnt know the maneuver involved, where the plane hit, the speeds, etc etc.. says he has no doubts that he could hit the pentagon? Sure, my grandma could hit the pentagon. How about looking into the maneuver before making that statement? He made that statement while the pentagon was still smoking for petes sake. A bit of monday morning quarterbacking if you ask me. A common theme among inexperienced pilots. This also can be verified via google searches.
So, to sum up. Hani Hanjour, took a 757, with zero time in type, did the maneuver described above, a 400 knot 330 degree sprialing dive at 2500 fpm, only gaining 30 knots, then 30 knots more descending from 2200 feet at full power, with a very steady hand as to not overshoot or hit the lawn, inside ground effect, at 460 knots impact speed, but was refused to rent a 172 cause he couldnt land it at 65 knots? C'mon... sounds like a bad B movie... Please see right margin for more testimony regarding Hani and his training.
My conclusion is, the manever looks possible, for guys like me and you. But for Hani? unlikely. He either got REALLY lucky, or someone/something else was flying that plane. Sure wish we had clear video of a 757 hitting the pentagon to silence all these "Conspiracy theorists". They want us to believe the pentagon is only covered by a parking gate camera? C'mon...
For anyone wanting to do further research on the subject. Almost all the circumstances surrounding 9/11 have similar scenarios. Hell, they didnt even match up the parts found at each site to their airframes via maintainence logs. There is an article out there that states all the parts were returned to United two weeks after Sept 11. Why... so they could refurbish them to put in their parts dept? This is evidence from a crime scene. You dont give it back to the airline. They claim insurance and its over with.
Originally posted by mikelee
reply to post by Swampfox46_1999
Uh...Flight 77 was United Airlines which is what that reference was to regarding your post as well as your confused reply. And, the referenced NTSB..National Transportation Safety Board...you know the ones who looked into all of this (supposedly) and "read" the FDR data.
Again, thats UNITED AIRLINES FLIGHT 77. Got it???
Question: Has there ever been a case of an airliner hijacking with a passenger revolt?
Answer: No. As many people would be scared to death. Including the fact that the public is pre-conditioned to comply with terroists rather than resist or fight.
The very spot the airliner crashed is suspicious. Why? Again the plane's heading takes it directly into the DC area and anyone keeping up with the events that day could figure this out easily. To save what MANY thought was an attack on either the White House or the Capitol building those who were in power that day gave the order to shoot it down. Many have dis-info'd on the range of fighter jets, actually its the range of their missiles that count. A play on words in the OS? Perhaps. Considering the accuracy of a Tomahawk is described as "pin point" by the maker, Hughes Missle Systems in Arizona. Range? 690 miles at 550mph.
The Hijacker of Mauritanian passenger plane was overcome by passengers and arrested on the planes arrival at Las Palmas airport
While explaining to Abderraman that the plane did not have enough fuel to reach France, the pilot, Ahmedou Mohamed Lemine, discovered Abderraman did not speak French. When the Morrocan government denied the plane's request to land and refuel at Djala in the Western Sahara, the pilot decided to continue on to Las Palmas as planned. Afterwards the pilot spoke to the passengers and crew in French, warning them that upon landing he was going to brake hard and then accelerate, to throw the hijacker off balance and give the passengers and crew a chance to overpower him. On landing, the pilot did so, and the hijacker fell to the floor, dropping one of his pistols. Flight attendants poured boiling water from the coffee machine on him and ten passengers and members of the crew beat him until they considered him sufficiently subdued. About twenty passengers were slightly injured in the hard landing.
It was Sandy Bradshaw, his wife, the flight attendant.
"Have you heard what's going on? My flight has been hijacked. My flight has been hijacked by three guys with knives," she said.
Who was flying the plane? Phil asked his wife.
"I don't know who's flying the plane or where we are," she said.
Sandy Bradshaw, who was trained never to spill hot coffee on a paying customer, slipped into the airplane's galley and began filling pitchers with boiling water.
The 6 feet 4 inch (193 centimeters) tall Reid was eventually subdued by other passengers on the aircraft, using plastic handcuffs, seatbelt extensions, and headphone cords. A doctor administered Valium found in the flight kit of the aircraft. Many of the passengers were aware of the situation when the pilot announced that the flight was to be diverted to Logan International Airport in Boston, Massachusetts.
Although no air marshals were on the flight, several passengers and crew noticed the attack. A passenger seated on the far side of the same row, Jasper Schuringa from the Netherlands, tackled and overpowered Abdulmutallab. Schuringa saw the suspect's trousers were open, and that he was holding a burning object between his legs. "I pulled the object from him and tried to extinguish the fire with my hands and threw it away," said Schuringa, who suffered burns to his hands. Meanwhile, flight attendants extinguished the fire with a fire extinguisher and blankets, and a passenger removed the partially melted, smoking syringe from Abdulmutallab's hand.
Uh...Flight 77 was United Airlines...
Now, as far as 93, it was shot down.
587 was bought down by Al Qeada.
Nonetheless, terrorism was officially ruled out as the cause by the National Transportation Safety Board, which instead attributed the disaster to the first officer's overuse of rudder controls.
Originally posted by odd1out
Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by mikelee
Of all the problems with your thesis I think the last part is the most glaringly and obviously incorrect. The proposition that this whole subject is an issue.
It really is not. Outside of the internet and conspiracy websites and forums there is not division on what happened that day. The only divison that exists is the different approaches that should (or should not) be taken to address the issue of security and international terrorism.
This is one of the reasons the 9/11 Commision report is not chock full of references to serial numbers on planes etc. The commissions primary mission was not to determine if planes actually crashed in NY, PA and in DC but to determine how security was so seriously breached and what coud be done in the future to prevent it.
I find this VERY FUNNY HOOPER, because you, and a few others like you, seem to follow everyone around threads concerning 911 spouting the same bullsh*t, especially the OP of this thread. If there is NO ARGUMENT, or NO ISSUE, as you say, why do you feel you must keep defending the OS so adamantly? You are CONVINCED of the OS, yet you lurk around to reiterate the same garbage we can hear, and have heard for years from the flawed data, and pure fiction, of the 911 comission. Why get so defensive, on a site designed to be a forum for SKEPTICS, if you are so convinced?