Only one percent of the Holocaust claims can be proven - Says Holocaust Scholar and Expert

reply to post by Beancounter72


Really? As far as I know there were just under 9 million Jews in Europe at the turn of the 20th century. More than thirty years before WWII.

Well I dont personally believe in the holocaust as it is told...

BUT,... think positive, if the holocaust wouldnt have happened, the jews would not have israel...

The holocaust HAD to happen ironically for the own jew's sake... funny when you think about it.

As you never forget the "holocaust", be sure to... Never forget what David Ben Gurion said...

reply to post by dereks


Mea culpa. I should not have said that no mass graves were EVER found. What I should have said is that a british team of researchers did a careful search of the area around one of the concentration camps which I think was Auschwitz but I'm not certain and could not find any trace of any mass grave. Other than this one error where I got carried away, I stand by all of my other posts.

Originally posted by Glass_Eyed_Max
For starters, the official Red Cross concentration camp death toll is 271,301.

again the facts are twisted, "concluded the amount of people who died in Nazi prisons and camps from 1939 to 1945 based on ICRC statistics was "300,000, not all of whom were Jews".[52] The January 19 1955 edition of Die Tat did indeed give a 300,000 figure, but this was only in reference to "Germans and German Jews" and not nationals of other countries.[53] In a 1979 response to this pamphlet, the ICRC said that they have "never tried to compile statistics on the victims of the war",[54] nor "certified the accuracy of the statistics produced by a third party",[54] and state that the authors of such material have "falsified" both claims that the document originates from the ICRC and refers exclusively to Jews.[54]" en.wikipedia.org...

The heading for this thread is also wrong, Robert Jan van Pelt never actually made that statement, he actually said "Ninety-nine per cent of what we know we do not actually have the physical evidence to prove" ...."will operate in the same way that we remember most things from the past. We will know about it from literature and eyewitness testimony. . . . We are very successful in remembering the past in that manner. That's how we know that Cesar was killed on the Ides of March." he was simplystating that most of our history has no physical history - eg. what physical history do we have of the Battle of Hastings?

Originally posted by ancient_wisdom
reply to post by apacheman

 

if the Nazis were obsessive-compulsive, how were there so many Jewish survivors of the Holocaust?

A common argument against Holocaust denial is "you should talk to my relative, they were there." And apparently survived an obsessive compulsive death camp. So how was that possible? How were there so many survivors, even today, if this was a genocide against all jews?

First off...taking one sentence entirely out of context by a Jewish Scholar and then not so subtly asking if the Holocaust was a hoax is NOT...

Just being curious about history...
Fair and honest investigation...

or any of the other nonsense that has been posted here.

Research or investigate it if you want the truth...which I doubt.

Secondly...the BS about "if the Nazi's were trying to kill all the jews, then how come there are survivors?"....... Really?

If you don't know the answer to that question then you have no business posting on the topic.

The jewish people were sent to LABOR camps! Those too old or weak were executed, those able to work were used to build weaponry for the Nazi's. When a camp had more slave labor than they needed, they killed the "excess"....also oft times certain nazi military engaged in joy killings/torture and medical experiments.

As the war evolved and the Nazi's were running short on food supplies they stepped up the mass killings and when they shut down camps no one was left alive.

If there was not an easy route to a nearby labor camp the simply executed the Jews they found on sight. Men, women, children, elderly etc.

If you want to know how a survivor survived the camps..ask one, read ....RESEARCH for EFs SAKE...

But take the..."just wondering", "just curious" BS somewhere else.

If you were curious you would have researched it already rather than this piece of crap thread.

reply to post by really


Even if that figure were true, it doesn't mean that all of them stayed in Europe until WW2. There was lots of emigration from europe to other countries mainly the US from 1900 to 1940. In fact, a careful analysis of jewish emigration from Germany and Easter europe shows that millions of jews left either to emigrate to safer countries or in the case of Poland, which had the single largest number of prewar jews, they fled to Russia. I'm quoting jewish sources here. It's their own numbers that don't add up.

reply to post by Beancounter72


True. There was also a lot of immigration into Europe. Also, there were plenty of Jews being born, I'm sure. So, what's your point? Let's also not forget that the Nazis asked non-Europeans to hand over their Jews. The Moroccan King would not give over the Moroccan Jews to the Nazis.
histclo.com...

But, that part of history must be a Zionist ploy as well and a part of the big lie.

[edit on 6-1-2010 by really]

Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni
Well I dont personally believe in the holocaust as it is told...

BUT,... think positive, if the holocaust wouldnt have happened, the jews would not have israel...

The holocaust HAD to happen ironically for the own jew's sake... funny when you think about it.

As you never forget the "holocaust", be sure to... Never forget what David Ben Gurion said...

Yes...I agree "funny when you think about it"... I would have had many more cousins if my uncle had survived the camps and hadn't lost his whole family.

Very funny.........

I think jews inflated the deaths, here in NJ one can see so many jews cemeterys .

To be honest, I don't know what to believe about the Holocaust.
I used to talk to a white supremacist who argued against the Holocaust. He told me that the purpose for the jews being rounded up was to get them out of Germany and relocate them to another country, I forget which exactly. He told me that German supply lines and railroads were bombed during WW2, which made it difficult to transport supplies to the camps, and priority was given to winning the war. In the camps, starvation became an issue from lack of food, and disease started spreading. Obviously, in cases where disease is a mass problem, one easy solution is to cremate all of the bodies, hence the "death ovens" or whatever they are called. Also, in cases where hundreds of people begin dying all at once, it is just simpler and quicker to bury them in mass graves. He even told me that some of the camps had tennis courts and other entertainment options. Like I said, I don't know how valid any of this is, it's just what I was told, but it does make sense to burn the bodies, and deaths due to starvation and disease.
People support or deny the holocaust for various possible reasons... It's just an all-around confusing issue, for me anyway. All I know for a fact is that people WERE rounded up and put on trains to be taken away. I have a relative who lived in Germany during that time who knows this.

Originally posted by CTBAPRBR
I think jews inflated the deaths, here in NJ one can see so many jews cemeterys .

That is amazing proof. In New Jersey over 60 years later there are so many Jewish cemeteries. Genius.

reply to post by trollz


A white-supremist told you that the Nazis built tennis courts in the camps they held the Jews? This gets better all the time. I can just see the meeting with Hitler and Himler and Goebbels and the rest:

"Guys, we've got to get these Jews out of here."
"Well, mein fuhrer, we we're going to ship them to Czechoslovakia but the allies have blown up our train lines. What would you have us do now?"
"Well, why don't we put them in camps. Build enough to hold them. Make sure they have tennis courts!!! They must have tennis courts!!!!!"

This is surreal.

Originally posted by Beancounter72
it's now been acknowledged by allied witnesses, that a lot of the confessions made by nazis on trial, were coerced via torture. 70% of the judges, prosecutors, and staff at those trials were jewish and therefore those trials can hardly be considered unbiased.

Source for that claim?

The International Red Cross released a report in 1948 that said that the total number of deaths in Nazi concentration camps from ALL causes was just over 250,000 and that included not just Jews but everyone. .

Oh dear, you ignore the little fact that the access the Red Cross said "As well as in personal correspondence, the ICRC has also addressed this misrepresentation by several other means. In 1975, the ICRC wrote to the Board of Deputies of British Jews in London regarding Harwood's citations, stating:

The figures cited by the author of the booklet are based upon statistics falsely attributed to us, evidently for the purpose of giving them credibility, despite the fact that we never publish information of this kind."
—Françoise Perret , Comité International de la Croix-Rouge, to Jacob Gerwitz, August 22, 1975.

The IRC was allowed access to all concentration camps during the war. There is NO mention in their report of gas chambers at all

of course there was not, but only because you ignore this "Rumors of gas chambers could not be verified because the delegates were expressly forbidden from visiting the Auschwitz Krema, where the gas chambers and cremation facilities were. They were taken only to those parts of the huge complex which housed prisoners who were not to be exterminated. Some Allied POWs were held in Auschwitz, in reasonable conditions, but they knew about the gassings and mentioned them to the IRC delegate.

For example, former SS-Untersturmfuehrer Dr. Hans Münch confirmed this in his testimony at the International Nuremberg Trial (Trial of the Major War Criminals, 1948, Vol. VIII, p. 313-321). He said:

I repeatedly witnessed guided tours of civilians and also of commissions of the Red Cross and other parties within the camp, and I was able to ascertain that the camp leadership arranged it masterfully to conduct these guided tours in such a way that the people being guided around did not see anything about inhuman treatment. The main camp was shown only and in this main camp there were so-called show blocks, particularly block 13, that were especially prepared for such guided tours and that were equipped like a normal soldier's barracks with beds that had sheets on them, and well-functioning washrooms. "
www.nizkor.org...

So even today the holocaust deniers are hard at it, but once again failing as they simply ignore the facts!


[edit on 6/1/10 by dereks]

Given what we now know about the motives for ALL wars past and present. I'm surprised that people still believe the propaganda of the past and even today. Come on remember who has been telling us all this stuff! Who funded WW1 and WW2? Do you really believe that the UK/US didn't know what was going on given that all side were funded by the same banks to forward their grand plan that is oh so evident today. Even using their own propaganda material the Jewish holocaust was nothing compared to the Chinese deaths (est 40 - 100 million)again labeled to Mao but guess who was funding this tyrant of peasant origins?

Not one war could be started if you soldiers would not sign up for this crap! I mean what mentally sick person wants to have a career as a killer?

An interesting statistic I saw several years ago showed the percentage of Soldiers killed compared to civilians from WW1 to the present Afghanistan US/UK terror war. Guess what it was something like 70% soldiers in WW1 and now it’s about 90% civilians. Do you think this is by chance or design? Me, I believe that the Corp armies only are interested in looking after their own investments and that includes their do'ers not those getting in the way.


[edit on 6-1-2010 by mlmijyd]

Why is it that the Jews get the shaft among many others? The NAZI's in this country seem alive and well To get a better idea of how you can tell, in dealing with the feds, an analysis of population dynamics can be very usefull. Count the population before and after the war. There is wide scale depopulation going on. It started with Arminian genecide, and never stopped. I'm not Jewish. You never said any thing on this website I you were not antisemetic. Just misinformed.

Later I'l mention how likely it to is is weigh probablity, and apply it through a compuer fractal program. Despite your comments, the number of Jews who "vanish" 1939-1989 was indeed far greater when checked out then ever before. (I also know Jews were to the wole issuse. Hitler still ordered resource's to the frount while fixated on killing the Jew's and killing them ccost him the war,(thank God he never listend to his generals)

Historical facts and fictions.
We can and should 'screen' what we read.

The international banksters sent 'agents' of usury/finance to settle Germany as well as many other countries throughout their 'new' kingdom.
These were not a 'holy' well-meaning sort of people. A leach or 'parasite' comes to mind.

These 'agents of finance' had learned the Art of Fiat Currencies. The rest is.....quite a bit of history.

Yes, the Truth is all about 'control' and 'power'.
What better way to control a population than to divide and conquer the 'people' into competing factions on various levels of differentiation?
The media and mediums of exchange are put into place to enforce this agenda. It has worked quite well for a Fool and his flock though none found satisfaction in their End.

Human Beings have deceived themselves.
Man has always had Free-will to Act true to His Being.
Most have put a price on the head of their Brethren whereby perpetuating the very evil that they claim to deny.

Throughout history, various peoples' strings were pulled for the benefit of Another.

Again, the people still had a Choice.
Free-will was a Gift, though the instructions were found in One's deepest Being. Hence, I suppose the 'people' have been distracted for a Reason.

If One is a Free man, then they are to follow their own Moral compass and to Act accordingly as a Soul, regardless of what may happen to one's shell.
If One has faith, are they to fear the flesh?

?????

For which 'flock' do you ascribe?
Who own's You?
Who controls you?

You?

Zionism was a creation of the International bankster (types) who gladly recruite Jewish members though when punishment comes along, the 'Other' folks often take the fall.

The Veil of Loyalty wears no mask.

The stategy behind Zionism was to convince and recruite those of Jewish faith, for their usary skills, and 'semetic' identification to settle various countries around the world for the benefit of a few Fools who find it difficult to See their own reflection; therefor they look to you for affirmation. You 'are' part of the flock, no?

Perhaps Not.
You still have a Choice.
Tomorrow is anew? day.

reply to post by trollz


Here's the thing. If that six million figure were the result of some post war tribunal that did an exhaustive review of nazi documentation with careful analysis and a list of six million names then I could give it credence but that didn't happen. The six million figure came from a jewish concentration camp survivor (can't think of his name but it's on rense.com) who loudly claimed that he personally saw 40,000 jews each day arriving by train in one camp and all 40,000 were marched straight into gas chambers and killed the same day as they arrived and this happened every day for months. When someone pointed out to him that 40,000 a day for just one year was 14.6 million, he changed his tune and said...well it was at leat 10 million for sure. Later on he lowered that to six million. So you see, that number has NEVER been proven. It was literally pulled out of the air. it got passed around so much that everyone assumed it must be factually true and backed up by official statistics but it wasn't.

I'll repear what I said in a previous post. If the Truth matters, then it matters ALL THE TIME, not just when it's politically correct.

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by Sharrow

 

When the last survivor and the last witness dies,I'm sure there will be
a celebration.Then the job of completely denying the holocaust will
continue,until it is thought of as a fairy tale.
Since we don't learn from our mistakes,we are doomed to repeat them.

That this thread even exists is testamony to the truth of your statement.

My Grandmere lived in occupied France during her later teen years into her 20s. She saw the Jews being taken away, she saw them throwing messages to anyone who would take one to try and get messages to their family. She saw her brother (not a Jew) taken away to a work camp, she saw her Father beaten by the Nazi's when her brother escaped said work camp. They wanted to know where he was, the family did not know (he had joined the resistance).

My Grandmere also has one of those little yellow stars of David the Jews were forced to wear...

So all of you in denial can continue to muddy the facts but the truth is a horrid crime was committed by man against man.



[edit on 6-1-2010 by Helmkat]

Hi OP,

Thank you for the opportunity to respond.

Holocaust denial is nothing new. You picked that particular "scholar" because he's a Jew. You assumed the woman was Jew for the same reason you posted this thread. You ignore the facts, ask for, and consider as proof, only those things that can never be absolutely substantiated.

How clever

You can march out 1000 scholars to support you claim. It's still a lie.

You refute your posters with circular logic, you grasp at straws like Eisenhower's ancestry, and you base your innuendo on absurdities.

Using your criteria, nothing can be proven, save one thing, the person who designed the criteria, has but one straw to grasp for, and it's a delusion.

Enjoy you mutual admiration party.

Anyone with a brain instead of Hitler's writings between their ears, can write a book about your real intent here.

Respond if you wish, maybe, I'll respond. Nothing personal.

Your every utterance offers boundless material to play with.
I'm just a busy guy, lots of work to do here.

Posters, you can't debate this thing, OP has no intention of doing anything but leveraging opportunities to rebut logic with Nazi revisionism.

It's a circle jerk.

Just call him what he is. He thrives when you post rational thinking.

Look at his Avatar and his Merit badges, he wants attention, and F & S from other like minded so called "people".

The only thing you prove OP, is that some things have only one solution, and it's final.

You write your own epitaph.

See Ya!

Ziggy

Originally posted by really
reply to post by ancient_wisdom

 

Hmmmm.... I've known a few American Indians (or part American Indian), MANY Armenians, and nobody from Darfur. What's your point. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that plenty of people on ATS have never met a Jew. What does that mean?
I've never met anyone from Alaska in person either (to my knowledge). I've never met a native of Bali either. Who else would you like me to account for?

I've met Jews before, but never met a Native American, so personal experience suggests that the Native American holocaust did happen.