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Only one percent of the Holocaust claims can be proven - Says Holocaust Scholar and Expert

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posted on Jan, 6 2010 @ 08:48 PM
Zyklon-B is a powerful insecticide. It releases HCN, Hydrocyanic
acid, a gas - Zyklon-B is the carrier, a material soaked with the
gas; usually it comes in the shape of small pellets or disks. HCN is
what causes death. While interacting with iron and concrete, it
creates compounds ("Hydrocyanic compounds"). Leuchter concedes that
these compounds were found in the ruins of the gas chambers in
Auschwitz (as reaffirmed by the findings of the Polish government
institute, which completely rejects Leuchter's conclusions - see
Section 2.01).

HCN is extremely poisonous to humans. It is used in execution gas
chambers in the US; the first such was built in Arizona in 1920. It
is absurd to claim (as the deniers do), that Germany in the 1940's
could not handle "technical difficulties" in using HCN for execution
- "difficulties" that were easily solved in 1920. Moreover, the
Germans had a lot of experience with HCN, as it was extensively used
for delousing.

There were two types of gas chambers in Auschwitz: those used for
delousing clothes ("delousing gas chambers") and those used for
killing people on a massive scale ("extermination gas chambers").
The delousing gas chambers were a standard feature, and were left
intact by the SS (as opposed to the extermination gas chambers, which
were dynamited in an effort to conceal criminal activity from the
rapidly approaching Soviet Army). The deniers try to confuse the
issue by mixing the two types of chambers. For instance, they show
pictures of the doors for the delousing chambers, and note that they
are too weak to withstand the pressure of people trying to escape.
Of course, the doors for the extermination chambers were completely
different, but that fact is quietly overlooked

And spare us from the "Im not anti-semetic, om only anti zioist" crap...your lies are speaking forthemsleves....

So-called liberals who believe that anti-Zionism is a fundamental component of their world-view have to contend with the fact that they tend to side with some of the most repressive, undemocratic, illiberal regimes in the world. Who do they prefer to Israel? Hamas? Hezbollah? The ayatollahs, Baathist dictators, or Wahabis? In the free market of ideas, that limit should, and I hope will, limit the madness of the anti-Israel liberal left. Even at the worst of their anti-Israel distortions, every one of them would really rather live in Israel then under the regimes they implicitly support. That cognitive dissonance must constantly be put to the test with arguments like those in this post.

posted on Jan, 6 2010 @ 08:48 PM
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Very good! 2010 stars for you, and my sincere thanks for your attempt to enlighten the ignorant.

posted on Jan, 6 2010 @ 08:50 PM
Religion And The Holocaust
By Richard E. Smith
This was originally a response to a letter to the editor. The letter brought forth two questions.
Was Hitler a Christian?

Did religion have anything to do with the Holocaust?

Hitler was baptized a Catholic and attended Catholic schools and churches in Austria.

Hitler repeatedly wrote and said that he was on a divine mission from God to destroy the Jews.

The Nazis made much of their interpretation that Jesus was not Jewish so they could retain him for a god.

In 1941 Hitler told his army adjutant General Gerhard Engel: "I shall remain a Catholic forever."

Hitler was heavily influenced by the forged book "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion." This was a spurious attempt to demonstrate the Jews were conducting a conspiracy to dominate the world.

Hitler grew up in culture where religious hatred of Jews was and is commonplace. From the time of Martin Luther, the first Protestant, when he spoke before the Diet at Worms ("All Jews should be driven from Germany") until today in the person of Lech Walesa, who won control of Poland on a platform, in part, of anti-Semitism, the religious hatred remains.

Hitler's last offensive of WWII was what came to be known as the Battle of the Bulge. The original code name Hitler gave this plan was Christrose. Hitler changed the name to Watch on the Rhine because he figured his enemies in the West, primarily Americans, English, and French, who were also primarily Christians, would be able to guess what it meant.

At the end of WWII the Catholic Church was up to its eyeballs (some say its Vatican) helping Nazis escape Europe to South America, the most prominent being Adolf Eichmann.

It is true that some Christians lost their lives helping Jews. But atheistic Communists did the same thing.

The Catholic church was willingly blackmailed by Nazi Germany in the Concordat of 1933. In the document signed by the Pope and Hitler, the church agreed not to interfere with the state as long as the state collected a religious tax from all church members. This tax remains in effect today. It is 9 percent of the base income.

The great Christian nation of America (as some would have it), legally, through strict immigration laws, turned its back on the Jews.

Christians might try reading A Criminal History of Christianity. It will take a while. So far it's ten volumes. And by the way it's in German.

Reichmarshall Herman Goering proclaimed of Hitler: "Only a Catholic could unite Germany."

Nazi Party Secretary Martin Bormann's wife remarked "I hope the children realize Charlamagne came to save us from the Jews."

After conquering the low countries and France, Hitler returned to Berlin in the summer of 1940. All the church bells in Germany rang for one hour.

Upon hearing that World War I had begun, Hitler later stated, "I fell on my knees and thanked Almighty God."

Before lunch the schoolchildren of Germany were required to recite an invocation which began: "Fuhrer, my Fuhrer, bequeathed to me by the Lord, . . ."

During Hitler's fiftieth birthday celebration, special votive masses were held in every German church "to implore God's blessing upon Fuhrer and people," and the Bishop of Mainz called upon Catholics in his diocese to pray specifically for "the Fuhrer and Chancellor, the inspirer, enlarger and protector of the Reich." The Pope did not fail to send his congratulations.

When the final decision was made to exterminate the Jews, Hitler specified they should be killed humanely but without a twinge of conscience. He was, after all, a member in good standing in the Church of Rome and carried within him its teaching that the Jew was the killer of God.

"My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Saviour as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by only a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they are and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love, as a Christian and as a man, I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord rose at last in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was the fight for the world against the Jewish poison." --Adolf Hitler

In his closing speech at Nuremberg in September 1937, Hitler compared the clash between National Socialism and Jewish Bolshevism to the struggle between Christianity and Mohammedanism. During the speech, with his always amazing logic and persuasion, Hitler had "proved" the Jewish world conspiracy and turned the Jews into Arabs.

In the aforementioned "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" the heads of the twelve tribes of Israel are said to have met with the Devil in a cemetery in Prague. Aaron is recognized as a specialist for his work in undermining Christianity by spreading freethinking and skepticism. Hitler absolutely insisted the Protocols were not a forgery.

Hitler was all his life a borrower. He would take a little something from this person, a little something from that place. Ofttimes this had great effect, as when he read of the reservations for Indians in the Christian nation of America. Hitler applied this idea to Nazi Germany, his own Christian nation. Hitler, as always, used his own touch. The reservations, under Hitler, were called concentration and killing camps.

The Pope's attitude was not at all vague. While taking no definite stand on the German invasion (of the Soviet Union) he made it clear that he backed the Nazi fight against Jewish Bolshevism, describing it as "high-minded gallantry in defense of Christian culture."

"We want to prevent our Germany from suffering, as Another did, the death upon the Cross."--Adolf Hitler

Speaking in Vienna in April, 1938, after Anschluss with Austria, Hitler said: "I believe that it was God's will to send a youth from here into the Reich, to let him grow up, to raise him to be the leader of the nation so as to enable him to lead back his homeland into the Reich . . . In three days the Lord has smitten them. . . . And to me the grace was given on the day of the betrayal to be able to unite my homeland with the Reich . . . I would now give thanks to Him who let me return to my homeland in order that I might now lead it into my German Reich. Tomorrow, may every German recognize the hour, and measure its import and bow in humility before the Almighty who in a few weeks has wrought a miracle upon us."

"Great Britain . . . which [Hitler told Field Marshall Rundstedt] must be looked on, together with the Catholic Church, as one of the cornerstones of Western civilization."

"I (Hitler) can only be grateful to Providence that it trusted me with the leadership in this historic struggle. . . . A historical revision on a unique scale has been imposed on us by the Creator."

When writing to Prime Minister von Kahr of Bavaria in 1920, Rudolf Hess, the man who was to become Deputy Fuhrer, stated, "I know Herr Hitler very well personally and am quite close to him. He has a rarely honorable, pure character, full of profound kindness, is religious, a good Catholic."

Hitler visited Berlin for six weeks in the summer of 1921. He came away deploring the mockery of family life, the decay of religion.

The frequency of religious metaphors and motifs in his rhetoric reflects childhood emotions: recollections of his experience as acolyte in Lambach monastery, when he was stirred to the depths by images of suffering and despair against a background of triumphant belief in salvation.

"By defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord," Hitler declared in Mein Kampf.

In his May 1923 speech at the Krone Circus in Munich, Hitler cried out: "The Jews are undoubtedly a race, but not human. They cannot be human in the sense of being an image of God, the Eternal. The Jews are the image of the Devil."

Hitler expounded the identity of Judaism, Christianity, and Bolshevism by reference to Isaiah 19:2-3 and Exodus 12:38. He said that the Jews had been expelled from Egypt because they had tried to produce a revolutionary mood by inciting the rabble with Humanitarian phrases. . . . From this it followed that Moses was the first leader of Bolshevism. . . . Thus, Hitler argued, the Old Testament already provided the pattern of the Jewish assault upon the superior, creative race, a pattern repeated again and again down the ages.

At a Christmas party (about 1926) given by a Munich section of the NSDAP he raised morale by comparing the woes of the party with the situation of the early Christians. National Socialism, he went on--sustaining the parallel because he had been carried away by his own bold image and the Christmas mood of the gathering--would translate the ideals of Christ "into deeds." He, Hitler, would complete "the work which Christ had begun but could not finish."

The National Socialist party was failing. . . . it was evident that Hitler could win power only if Germany herself suffered violent disasters. He prayed for disaster, and his prayers were answered.

Institutionally as well psychologically the movement had at last prepared its members to fit into the totalitarian framework. Speaking to chosen party journalists Hitler sketched a picture of hierarchy and organization of the Catholic Church. The party must build its leadership pyramid after the model of the church, "on a broad pedestal of . . . political parish priests who stand in the midst of the people." The pyramid itself must "rise above the tiers of the Kreisleiter and Gauleiter to the body of Senators and finally to the Leader-Pope." He did not shy away from the comparison between gauleiters and bishops, and between future senators and cardinals, one of those present reported; and similarly he boldly transferred the concepts of authority, obedience, and faith from the spiritual to the secular realms in a series of bewildering parallels. He concluded by saying without a trace of irony, that he did not "wish to contest the Holy Father in Rome his claim to mental--or is the word spiritual--infallibility on questions of faith, I don't know much about that. But I think I know a great deal more about politics. Therefore I hope that the Holy Father henceforth will not contest my claim. And herewith I now lay claim, for myself and successors in the leadership of the National Socialist German Workers' Party, to infallibility. I hope the world will bow to that as quickly as it has bowed to the Holy Father's claim."

A Hamburg schoolmistress wrote in April 1932 that she had witnessed scenes of "moving faith" and Hitler struck her as a religious rather than political leader. His success with the masses was above all a phenomenon of the psychology of religion. He spoke less to people's political convictions than to their spiritual state.

Hitler assigned a high significance to space as well as time. The "artificially created, yet mysterious twilight in Catholic churches" was, he believed, (an) almost perfect example of places treated for their maximum psychological effect. This was, in his words, what all propaganda aimed at: to achieve "an encroachment upon man's freedom of will."

During his February 1, 1933, radio speech, "Proclamation to German People" Hitler began by saying "the Almighty has withheld his blessing from our people" since the loss of World War I in November 1918. Beginning with the family, he went on to pledge a fostering of "Christianity as the foundation of our national morality, and the family as the basis of racial and political life." He went on to make a pious appeal (prayer) for God's blessing on the work.

On February 4, 1933 Hitler's Decree For The Protection Of The German People went into effect. It was immediately used against a congress of leftist intellectuals and artists for purportedly making atheistic statements.

Speaking in early 1933 in the Berlin Sportpalast, Hitler prayed the following: [he had the] "rock-hard conviction that sooner or later the hour will come in which the millions who hate us today will stand behind us and together with us will hail what we have jointly created, toilsomely struggled for, bitterly paid for: the new German Reich of greatness and honor and power and glory and justice. Amen!"

Often today the word holocaust is used by those against abortion. This of course conjures up images of the slaughter of Jews and others (one group frequently overlooked in the killing are atheists) during World War II. Adolf Hitler, in Mein Kampf, made plain his Catholic feelings on abortion. "I'll put an end to the idea that a women's body belongs to her . . . Nazi ideals demand that the practice of abortion shall be exterminated with a strong hand." Hitler sentenced so-called Aryan women who had abortions to hard labor after the first offense, to death after the second.

The seed of hatred sown by Martin Luther would reach its horrible climax in the Third Reich, when German Protestants showed themselves to be particularly receptive to Nazi antiSemitism.

Adolf Hitler, as an Austrian-born Catholic educated in Linz, who had arrived in Munich before the First World War, was the heir of an age-old tradition of Christian anti-Semitism which had become transmuted into biological racism, especially in the German-speaking world of Central Europe. The secular political faith of National Socialism which he propagated borrowed its motifs freely from Christian liturgy, from the hierarchical structure of the Catholic church and the demonological view of Judaism as a satanic force which had its roots in the Middle Ages. In his early years as political agitator in Bavaria he frequently played on the deicidal myth and on his own messianic role as a militant Germanic saviour bearing a sword rather than a crown of thorns, who would drive the Jewish capitalists from the Temple of the Lord. "The task which Christ began but did not finish," he told a Munich audience in 1926 , "I will complete." In Mein Kampf he had written, two years earlier, "that in defending myself against the Jews I am acting for the Lord." Without the irrational beliefs inculcated by centuries of Christian dogma--reinforced by xenophobic, nationalist and Germanic racial mythology--Hitler's anti-Semitism and the echo which it found throughout Europe would have been inconceivable.

Two questions.
Would the Holocaust have happened if Hitler had been a Buddhist?

If you were God would you have let the Holocaust happen?

Writes Kansas Foundation member Richard E. Smith: "I have been studying WWII for well over 20 years. I am currently working in the entertainment industry, in Wichita, Kansas. Last summer marked my 30th year as a member of the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees. I at this time am approaching the various communitty colleges and universities in the area in an attempt to give lectures on Hitler and religion."

1) Hitler, Bulluck, 26, 30, 388
3) Adolf Hitler, Toland, 507
4) ibid. 703
5) History of the SS, Graber, 76-77
6) Anti-Semitism, Wistrich, 66-67
7) Hitler, Toland, 830
11) While Six Million Died, Morse
15) The Eagle's Nest, Video, Volume III
16) Hitler, Bulluck, 50
17) Adolf Hitler, Toland, 404
18) ibid. 528
19) ibid. 703
20) Hitler, Fest, 152
21) Hitler, Bulluck, 365
22) History of the SS, Graber, 85
24) Adolf Hitler, Toland, 674-75
25) Hitler, Bulluck, 96
26) ibid. 435
27) ibid. 589
28) ibid. 663
29) Hitler, Fest, 131-32
30) ibid. 140
31) ibid. 140
32) Mein Kampf, Hitler, 296
33) Hitler, Fest, 212
34) ibid. 211
35) ibid. 252
36) Life And Death of Adolf Hitler, Payne, 221
37) Hitler, Fest, 283-284
38) ibid. 328-329
39) ibid. 325
40) ibid. 388-389
41) ibid. 391
42) ibid. 393
43) Mein Kampf, Hitler, 173
44) Antisemitism, Wistrich, 42
45) ibid. 66-67

posted on Jan, 6 2010 @ 08:53 PM

Originally posted by C64Warrior
I am german and I must say, that it would be wrong to deny the holocaust. It was real and cruel. But I would also say there is one group of people who can't stack the bodies high enough and another doing exactly the opposite.

Good balanced view. And it's also terrible and largely forgotten how the German people suffered terribly in the aftermath of WWII. Many were hunted down by rogue gangs, starved, placed in horrid DP camps, etc. The number who died as a result of being on the losing side of the war, almost all innocent civilians, must be a million if not more.

No series of words typed can alleviate the injustices and suffering that resulted from the collective madness of the period.

posted on Jan, 6 2010 @ 08:53 PM
reply to post by mmiichael

Lies are generated from many sources, not just the wealthy and powerful.

Why yes they are Michael but I love you just the same.

Beware the man who demands one not speak or think and couches it in the lanquage of emotion.

The past is not quite as well hidden as some would think, especially when one looks at it objectively without the rose colored glasses tinged with emotion and its subtle and not so subtle manipulations.

Americans my friend, don’t actually have to stop anywhere were free speech is concerned.

It is always suspect though when someone wishes for that.

What is the worst that could happen, Michael my friend if the world learned the truth, World War III won’t end up being fought? Wouldn’t that be a pity, the truth is for some in fact it would.

Anyone who imagines manipulation on a grand scale is not taking place to drive world events is either simply not paying attention well, or is taking part in the manipulation.

The usual suspects are in fact up to their eyeballs in it.

[edit on 6/1/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

posted on Jan, 6 2010 @ 08:57 PM
quote: protosomethingtravler: "Zionists and Jews are two different creatures in my humble opinion. The first is simply a religious person of a chosen faith that has its own views on life and the universe and G-d that are ancient in their practice. The latter is a political cult that exists for power and control that has basically exploited the world’s Jewry by at times being its greatest benefactor and protector and at other times being its greatest bane and persecutor. "

Another rubish argument

Judaism can be thought of as being simultaneously a religion, a nationality and a culture.

Throughout the middle ages and into the 20th century, most of the European world agreed that Jews constituted a distinct nation. This concept of nation does not require that a nation have either a territory nor a government, but rather, it identifies, as a nation any distinct group of people with a common language and culture. Only in the 19th century did it become common to assume that each nation should have its own distinct government; this is the political philosophy of nationalism. In fact, Jews had a remarkable degree of self-government until the 19th century. So long as Jews lived in their ghettos, they were allowed to collect their own taxes, run their own courts, and otherwise behave as citizens of a landless and distinctly second-class Jewish nation.

Of course, Judaism is a religion, and it is this religion that forms the central element of the Jewish culture that binds Jews together as a nation. It is the religion that defines foods as being kosher and non-kosher, and this underlies Jewish cuisine. It is the religion that sets the calendar of Jewish feast and fast days, and it is the religion that has preserved the Hebrew language.

If Judaism an ethnicity? In short, not any more. Although Judaism arose out of a single ethnicity in the Middle East, there have always been conversions into and out of the religion. Thus, there are those who may have been ethnically part of the original group who are no longer part of Judaism, and those of other ethnic groups who have converted into Judaism.

If you are referring to a nation in the sense of race, Judaism is not a nation. People are free to convert into Judaism; once converted, they are considered the same as if they were born Jewish. This is not true for a race.

Zionism is the national liberation movement of the Jewish people, which holds that Jews, like any other nation, are entitled to a homeland.

History has demonstrated the need to ensure Jewish security through a national homeland. Zionism recognizes that Jewishness is defined by shared origin, religion, culture and history.

The realization of the Zionist dream is exemplified by more than four million Jews, from more than 100 countries, including dark-skinned Jews from Ethiopia, Yemen and India, who are Israeli citizens. Approximately 1,000,000 Muslim and Christian Arabs, Druze, Baha'is, Circassians and other ethnic groups also are represented in Israel's population.

Many Christians have traditionally supported the goals and ideals of Zionism. Israel's open and democratic character and its scrupulous protection of the religious and political rights of Christians and Muslims rebut the charge of exclusivity.

The Arab states define citizenship strictly by native parentage. It is almost impossible to become a naturalized citizen in many Arab states, especially Algeria, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. Several Arab nations have laws that facilitate the naturalization of foreign Arabs, with the specific exception of Palestinians. Jordan, on the other hand, instituted its own "law of return" in 1954, according citizenship to all former residents of Palestine, except for Jews.

The presence of thousands of black Jews in Israel is the best refutation of the calumny against Zionism. In a series of historic airlifts, labeled Moses (1984), Joshua (1985) and Solomon (1991), Israel rescued almost 42,000 members of the ancient Ethiopian Jewish community.

To single out Jewish self-determination for condemnation is itself a form of racism. "A world that closed its doors to Jews who sought escape from Hitler's ovens lacks the moral standing to complain about Israel's giving preference to Jews," wrote noted civil rights lawyer Alan Dershowitz.

When approached by a student who attacked Zionism, Martin Luther King responded: "When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You're talking anti-Semitism."

The 1975 UN resolution was part of the Soviet-Arab Cold War anti-Israel campaign. Almost all the former non-Arab supporters of the resolution have apologized and changed their positions. When the General Assembly voted to repeal the resolution in 1991, only some Arab and Muslim states, as well as Cuba, North Korea and Vietnam were opposed.

posted on Jan, 6 2010 @ 08:58 PM
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

That is a great post and it is worth a star from me.

I appreciate your explanation based on facts and context rather than sensationalism and hearsay.

posted on Jan, 6 2010 @ 08:59 PM
The problems with most genocide cases, is that records are used and destroyed, then you have to go off of the survivors account of who they knew, where they were living and the last time they talked to them.
With no records, there can be argument on the number, however, if you look at the more recent genocides that has happened, such as Rwanda, the evidence is very clear that such, has and will continue to occure.
The real shame of it all, is that every year one more victim dies, one more voice no longer speaks out, and one more discenter comes up and says maybe it did not happen or the numbers were wrong. In 1939 there was, according to the records, over 17 Million persons who were of the Jewish faith. At the end of World War II, there was only 11 million, and the question must be asked, where in that short time did 6 million people go? There was no influx of millions of people to anywhere in the world, so the conclusion is that they died, and from the evidence at hand, it has to be stated that they were killed during the time the Nazi's were in power.

posted on Jan, 6 2010 @ 09:00 PM
reply to post by Stewie

Indeed there are Jews in Iran. But what does that have to do with anything? They are talking about total war. Again, when you're accused of developing nuclear weapons in secret, then within the same year saying you want to wipe someone off the map, the only modern method to wipe someone off the map is through nuclear war. There's no other way to wipe someone off the map. When cold war fanatics called for wiping Russia off the map, or when Patton called for wiping Russia off the map, they were talking about nukes. It's the idea of wiping anything off the map that makes you dangerous. The simple most basic fact goes down to the term "wiping off" because at its core, it means extermination. Weather Jews live in Iran is irrelevant, because they are not in Israel. They want to physically wipe that government toff the map. Their enemy, in their view, is European Jews who moved in and demanded rights. It's the classical argument that foreigners shouldn't be treated as equal. Yes, Israel stole land, but that does not justify total war and extermination.

reply to post by ancient_wisdom

Explain to me how being creative is questioning the power of the government? Is asking for new ideas against securing military might? Also, again,

Also, I do not believe that these items were disproven when history magazines still sow them. Yea it's a joke to trust the media, but in all honesty, this is not some tabloid. This is national geographic. Show me direct links to people who claim this was faked, when in fact, it was shown to be true in these actual artifacts.

And again, scientists were encouraged to be creative. IE, do something and see what happens. This is called the iterative process. It has no relevance to questioning the regime of the nazis. It has to do with extreme experimentation and hoping for better results. The iterative process is a marvel to be held in human development. But it can, under lawlessness and no respect for life, cause disgusting things. The simple fact is that Germany was interested in eugenics and creating literally a new species of humanity. They wanted a master race. Experimenting on the lesser people, in their opinion, mattered not. We see in the modern age the same opinions today. Some want to bring back Neanderthals because they don't consider them human and would like to experiment on them. Others don't view embryos as human and want to experiment on them. It is in the human nature to disregard the value of life for the exchange of getting more power and knowledge. Imagine the Nazis if they rose after the human genome was matched. You can bet they would breed augments.

[edit on 6-1-2010 by Gorman91]

posted on Jan, 6 2010 @ 09:05 PM
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

quote: "The past is not quite as well hidden as some would think" mean revisionists?......A bunch of "academic" political socilasists, who are taken seriosusely by no one with true importance in the academic world, and to justify their pro islamodictator#s agenda, they come up with simplistic revisionism and audacious historical inaccuracys.

posted on Jan, 6 2010 @ 09:06 PM
reply to post by sezsue

I hope that people will open their minds enough to really study the whole period and see that everything that has happened for the last several hundred years has been planned, and as you said, to lead to a one world government, with the ordinary people of the planet either killed off, or forced into slavery.

This is in fact what is happening Sue and it is being done largely through the skilled use of fabricated propaganda that is always designed to play to our emotions.

Especially to our anger and our fear, both emotions rob people of rational thought by unbalancing the person with those emotions to react with their heart and to think with it, instead of to respond with their mind and to think with it.

The information that media and the government imparts to us is always aimed at the heart and emotion and not the mind and the intellect.

That’s done to manipulate us to a likely and desired response.

The hot buttons of religion, race, nationality and even sex and sexuality are used to simply divide us into either angry camps that will fight to a manipulated end, or frightened camps that will cower and do nothing.

The world’s population has become enslaved to bankers and that military industrial complex and energy resource titans and they are orchestrating events and driving them to fight one last World War to depopulate the planet and install a fascist one world totalitarian government.

We who know that truth, must at the very least speak to that truth, and reject the emotional manipulation and intimidation that will be brought to bear on us for that.

The truth shall set us free and that is why it is absolutely imperative that those who know it speak it.


posted on Jan, 6 2010 @ 09:07 PM
reply to post by sifolux

Your "rebuttal" reads like history from a high school textbook.
Are you a teacher?
Alan Dershowitz, didn't he help O.J. escape justice?
Great man, that one.

posted on Jan, 6 2010 @ 09:10 PM
reply to post by Stewie

Its called facts stevie
something with actual sources...unlike you and other paranoid wierdos on this forum...i don't just asume i know...

posted on Jan, 6 2010 @ 09:11 PM

Originally posted by mmiichael
Good balanced view. And it's also terrible and largely forgotten how the German people suffered terribly in the aftermath of WWII. Many were hunted down by rogue gangs, starved, placed in horrid DP camps, etc. The number who died as a result of being on the losing side of the war, almost all innocent civilians, must be a million if not more.

No series of words typed can alleviate the injustices and suffering that resulted from the collective madness of the period.

Yes you are right. That's something else which is forgotten or will never be mentioned. At the times when the german went at war, not everybody was lucky with is. The average guy just feared to die in war. My grandfather was in WW II, he was captured by the russians. Kept as prisoner of war until 5 years after the end. I asked him very often about his experiences. He was never able to talk about it, too much cruelty he experienced. Just got very few things from him.

posted on Jan, 6 2010 @ 09:12 PM
reply to post by Gorman91

Either you hate Jews or you hate the Israeli regime, or both.
It seems clear that Ahmadinejad hates the Israeli regime, not the jews.
He wishes to erase the regime.
what has the Israeli regime done to foment such anger?
Note: A judge wants to hear both sides of an argument. Atticus Finch represented an unpopular but innocent man.
Unlike OJ...Dershowitz.

posted on Jan, 6 2010 @ 09:13 PM
Haj Amin Al-Husseini (1895-1974), Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, is a man of the past, at the same time he is a man of the present. Not only was he one of the best Arab friends the Nazis ever had, he also worked for them and was handsomely paid by them in the crucial war years between 1941 and 1945 when he lived in a villa in Berlin. Today, he is a model for many radical Muslims who share his views on the Jews, Sharia law and the West. He was the father of Palestinian nationalism. Why did he feel so deeply attracted to Nazi ideology? Why did the Nazis see the Grand Mufti as their close friend and ally?

It was in 1899 that Houston Stewart Chamberlain, a British born germanofile, published his book "Die Grundlagen des neunzehnten Jahrhunderts" ("The Foundations of the nineteenth century"). This book would make a huge impact on nationalistic and anti-Semitic Germans and later laid the foundations for Nazi ideology. Chamberlain acquired German citizenship in 1916, during the First World War, that is. He later joined the Nazi Party, was close to Goebbels and Hitler, but died in 1927, six years before the Nazis would come to power.

Chamberlain was fascinated by the powerful will of the Arabs and Islam ("der Mohammedanismus"), and by the way Muslims are facing death.[1

Nazi Party philosopher Alfred Rosenberg, a strong admirer of Houston Stewart Chamberlain, hated the Christian churches, especially the Roman Catholic Church, but he did admire the creative power of both Confucius and Mohammed. They had a purpose and showed the way forward for others. Mohammed forced many people to follow his doctrine, Confucius created longlasting Chinese "Volkstum" (traditions or customs of the people), Rosenberg wrote in his "Mythus des 20. Jahrhunderts" ("Myth of the Twentieth Century").[2 At the same time Rosenberg was worried about the increasing number of Muslims ("Mohammedaner") in Africa and Asia:

"Everywhere in the colonies where racial mixtures occur, the mongrels ("Mischlinge") enthousiastically embrace Islam. At the same time Islam promises freedom to the negroes by means of a common struggle against Europe. The Indian Basvani writes. "I tell you Europeans to be on guard. An old Indian man says: ‘Be on guard when you see the tears of awakening: Already does the East wake up, the Hindus and the Muslims in India, Egypt, Persia, Algeria and Afghanistan suffer under the domination of aggressive imperialism of the West."

More than ever must the white races be on guard against the perhaps once united hatred of the colored races and mongrels led by the fanatical spirit of Mohammed. "[3

Yet, Rosenberg's "Mythus" was translated into Arab – initially in abridged form – and even enjoyed a certain popularity in the Arab world. Bernard Lewis notes that "the Arabs, though classsed as Semites in Nazi literature, were accorded a very different treatment by the rulers of the Nazi state."

"Despite some initial reluctance and continuing uncertainty, due more to political than ideological considerations, the Nazis decided that the Arabs might be useful to them, and made some effort to win Arab sympathy for Nazi ideas and to mobilize Arab support for German purposes."[4

The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin Al-Husseini who was the closest Arab ally the Nazis ever had, pressed Rosenberg in 1943 to instruct the Nazi press to drop the term "anti-Semitism," because this term had a negative connotation affecting the Arab world which sympathized with the Nazi cause. One year later, Al-Husseini said it is better to replace the term "anti-Semitism" by "anti-Judaism."

posted on Jan, 6 2010 @ 09:18 PM
Just thought these might interest you folks. It is a talk on history research by writer David Irving. He has some info on Hitler that could make things a lot clearer.

I apologize for the slow pace, but what he has to say will blow you away. Well worth at least skimming through.


Here is a video about the population numbers of pre-war European Jews. The numbers simply tell a different story. See for yourselves.

Another interesting video.

One last thing. I've found it interesting that "the big Lie" is always attested to Hitler. As in, he was using "the big lie" for the cause of eliminating the Jewish Race, but come to find out that it was Hitler who was saying that the Jewish Leaders use "the big lie" (God's Chosen People?) to sway people. A lie so big that no one could think that a person or government could be so cunning with it's own people. It's interesting that it is turned around...

Sorry one more from Fred L. The man who investigated the Gas Chambers.


[edit on 6-1-2010 by letthereaderunderstand]

[edit on 6-1-2010 by letthereaderunderstand]

posted on Jan, 6 2010 @ 09:19 PM
I am always astounded when I come across people denying that the holocaust ever happened.
Had you ever spoken to a survivor, you would have no doubt.

posted on Jan, 6 2010 @ 09:19 PM
"He wishes to erase the regime" -

Yes, destroying one puny jewish nation whyle muslims have an amount of land larger the fact, they have as much as a third of the worlds surface...quite greedy, whyly building huge palm tree islands instead of helping their "palastinian brotheres"...infact...they keap them in a refugee state, and treat them like # (search for amnestys document of palastinian treatment in leabon
) order to keap them as front pawns in order to commint a second holocaust on jews...

infact, read matias kuntzels book, "Jihad and Jew-Hatred: Islamism, Nazism and the Roots"...shows you exactly how todays political islam adoped the nazi the hamas charter...its completely hitlerian.

posted on Jan, 6 2010 @ 09:20 PM

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
The past is not quite as well hidden as some would think, especially when one looks at it objectively without the rose colored glasses tinged with emotion and its subtle and not so subtle manipulations.

Americans my friend, don’t actually have to stop anywhere were free speech is concerned.

It is always suspect though when someone wishes for that.

What is the worst that could happen, Michael my friend if the world learned the truth, World War III won’t end up being fought? Wouldn’t that be a pity, the truth is for some in fact it would.

Anyone who imagines manipulation on a grand scale is not taking place to drive world events is either simply not paying attention well, or is taking part in the manipulation.

The usual suspects are in fact up to their eyeballs in it.

If you read enough history you begin to realize nothing is simple and unidirectional as it appears to be according to reductionist thinkers.

There is always opportunism from the highest empire builders to the lowest local tribal chief. They'll work together when their goals coincide and become the bitterest of enemies a day later when their perceive needs diverge.

No one can track the millions of threads, political, economic, cultural, religious, social of billions of people. One can look for and find reinforcements of any pattern one chooses to see.

The thinking of more advanced historians these days is that the world evolves not by the actions of kings, queens, presidents, prime ministers. so much as resource demands, technological change, education levels, financial instruments, agricultural improvements, industrialization, even medical advancements.

The notion a hidden rich and powerful clique determines history, America runs the world, or the British, Jews are their agents, the Catholic Church has engineered European history, etc - what the Romans called 'reductio ad absurdam.'

We see from civilizations that have failed like the Mayans, that even without the interference of Europeans, the Church, Christianity - even the brightest and most powerful can make bad decisions that can undo even a vast empire.

One has to be cautious they don't accept any views of history because they are seductive. You can hate the US government, but it isn't the cause of every problem in the world. Nor are the Jews, even if you use the term Zionists. Nor is Christianity, nor is Western controlled capitalism.

There is a level one can reach in learning that is almost Zen-like. It is when you reach the point of realizing everything you thought to be true is actually wrong. And then you start to dissemble your own belief systems and begin reassembling a finer one based on objectivity and deeper insight.

Something almost all of us need to do.


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